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NFL Combine Discussion

Morrissey

By Morrissey
in NY Jets Forum

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LionelRichie

LionelRichie

Posted
Posted

That's not the argument I'm making.

 

I'm saying there are more good WRs in this draft than pass rushers. The dropoff between the 2nd best WR (who is probably what we'd get) and the 6th best (who is probably what we'd get in R2) isn't as dramatic as the dropoff between the 1st best pass rusher and whatever pass rusher we'd have to take in R2.

 

The key to the draft is finding guys who can play in the NFL.   Sounds so simple right?   With the rookie wage scale it matters significantly less what # draft pick he is.   

 

Look at Mangold, he's been one of the best centers in the league for almost a decade.   Milliner @ 9 vs. Richardson @ 13.   Would it have mattered where Richardson was drafted?   Dude is a stud and one of the best 3-4 DE's in the NFL.  

 

The Jets need impact players....I honestly don't care that much about position.   

 

I totally understand the argument you are making I just don't think there is a reason to get too cute.  Find the best players and draft them, you don't need to over think it and try to get a value player later in the draft.   I remember obsessing over value last year and we ended up with Pryor, a broken down CB, and the only WR's drafted in the first 5 rounds who didn't catch a pass all season.   

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Jetster

Jetster

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Posted

The key to the draft is finding guys who can play in the NFL.   Sounds so simple right?   With the rookie wage scale it matters significantly less what # draft pick he is.   

 

Look at Mangold, he's been one of the best centers in the league for almost a decade.   Milliner @ 9 vs. Richardson @ 13.   Would it have mattered where Richardson was drafted?   Dude is a stud and one of the best 3-4 DE's in the NFL.  

 

The Jets need impact players....I honestly don't care that much about position.   

 

I totally understand the argument you are making I just don't think there is a reason to get too cute.  Find the best players and draft them, you don't need to over think it and try to get a value player later in the draft.   I remember obsessing over value last year and we ended up with Pryor, a broken down CB, and the only WR's drafted in the first 5 rounds who didn't catch a pass all season.

I agree with you. This value crap is GARBAGE! Draft who you think is the best player when your pick comes up!

Imagine if Abdullah turns into Tiki Barber without the fumbles,lol.

OMG, we picked him in the 2nd round? But, but, there's no value there,lol.

This value crap is a bunch of horsesh*t! The only reason Belichick gets a pass for all of his stupid trade backs is that he has Tom Brady to cover up all the CRAP!

F*cking guy passed on Clay Matthews! Traded back, lol.

Jets FANS have done better picking then this F*cking team. Christ, we could have watched Dan Marino & Warren Sapp playing for us.

Even when they missed like Favre by 2 picks, they aren't SMART enough to trade for him like Green Bay did? Morons.

Reading OVER & OVER about Bradway wanting Russell, there's you f*cking value right there! Why didn't we just take him!!!

We've needed a QB in forever!

Our scout is CRYING to anyone that would listen, "this Russell Wilson is special". Idiots! All of them.

The VALUE wasn't there,lmao!

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Integrity28

Integrity28

Posted
Posted

The key to the draft is finding guys who can play in the NFL.   Sounds so simple right?   With the rookie wage scale it matters significantly less what # draft pick he is.   

 

Look at Mangold, he's been one of the best centers in the league for almost a decade.   Milliner @ 9 vs. Richardson @ 13.   Would it have mattered where Richardson was drafted?   Dude is a stud and one of the best 3-4 DE's in the NFL.  

 

The Jets need impact players....I honestly don't care that much about position.   

 

I totally understand the argument you are making I just don't think there is a reason to get too cute.  Find the best players and draft them, you don't need to over think it and try to get a value player later in the draft.   I remember obsessing over value last year and we ended up with Pryor, a broken down CB, and the only WR's drafted in the first 5 rounds who didn't catch a pass all season.   

 

Just being pragmatic.

 

My suggestion positions them to get 1 of the best 3 pass rushers in R1, and 1 of the best 6 wide receivers in R2. I'm not talking about value, I'm talking about supply and demand really. This suggestion doesn't preclude them from getting impact players in any way.

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DaBallhawk

DaBallhawk

Posted
Posted

Not sure if this has been posted or not, but Winston doesn't seem like a dope to me

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-combine-total-access/0ap3000000473191/Winston-and-Mooch-simulate-a-draft-interview

 

Has been posted already. And I could have even passed that "test". That play was about as basic as it gets. When the LB is in man or zone coverage, the routes, protection, I mean just by watching football or listening to guys like Mike Mayock you learn that stuff. A college QB who can't handle that should be banned from playing football.

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Shockwave

Shockwave

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Posted

I don't understand where how this opinion continues to hold weight.  I sat down yesterday and watched every single Amari Cooper game footage video I could find...the guy has no flaws.  He changes direction easily, catches everything, is DANGEROUS with the ball in his hands, runs perfect routes AND is verrrry deceptive in his breaks, has blazing straightline speed, and has an insane workout regimen...what exactly is the problem? Are people doubting his "upside" because he doesn't have the body of Calvin Friggin Johnson?  Insane.  Watch the tape, it's legitimately hard not to love him.

 

FWIW...I was a big Cooper hater 3 short days ago.  I fell for all of the reporter hype about him not having a high enough ceiling.  Don't be me, use your eyes.

I am sure I can speak for many of us when I say we have been following Amari Cooper and the draft for months now. I mean - When your team is like 1-8 what else is there to do? 

 

To me Cooper is the ultimate college player but he is situation based in the NFL. He is super smooth, has great hips and catches with is a hands catcher. What he lacks in speed, yac, and jump ball situations he certainly makes up with great routes and his smoothness. If he was put on the right team, with the right QB he will certainly put up big numbers in the NFL. Think anywhere in the range of Torry Holt, Greg Jennings, Michael Crabtree. You put these guys in the right offense and a guy like Jennings put up 1300 yards, 90 catches, and 13 TDs. If you give Jennings QB play like ours and he will put up his Vikings pedestrian 7-800 yards and 6 TD's. I expect the same of Cooper.

 

Why is he not elite? Cooper put up a 4.42 but he looks like a 4.5 guy per most evaluators.  So hes not a guy thats going to run by everyone. Hes not a guy you line up and could throw jump balls. Hes not an Elite YAC guy. While a good player his name should not be in the same situation as AJ green, and Julio Jones. Hes 1 tier below. Remember in the NFL "Wide open" could mean inches and is a very small window. Those highlight reels of Cooper where is he wide open by 10-20 yards are completely worthless. So those would be the reasons you could say his ceiling isn't a high as the elite guys. 

 

Kevin White's game translates better to the NFL and is the only Elite WR in this draft. I predict the raiders will take him to pair with Carr hence there will be no elite players for us comment. After White I don't think there is that much separation between Cooper and lets say DGB/Parker.  I could argue either guy's game translates better to the NFL then Coopers. IMO there all in the second tier and surely youll be able to grab one of them 10-20 picks later. 

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smaxor5

smaxor5

Posted
Posted

I am sure I can speak for many of us when I say we have been following Amari Cooper and the draft for months now. I mean - When your team is like 1-8 what else is there to do? 

 

To me Cooper is the ultimate college player but he is situation based in the NFL. He is super smooth, has great hips and catches with is a hands catcher. What he lacks in speed, yac, and jump ball situations he certainly makes up with great routes and his smoothness. If he was put on the right team, with the right QB he will certainly put up big numbers in the NFL. Think anywhere in the range of Torry Holt, Greg Jennings, Michael Crabtree. You put these guys in the right offense and a guy like Jennings put up 1300 yards, 90 catches, and 13 TDs. If you give Jennings QB play like ours and he will put up his Vikings pedestrian 7-800 yards and 6 TD's. I expect the same of Cooper.

 

Why is he not elite? Cooper put up a 4.42 but he looks like a 4.5 guy per most evaluators.  So hes not a guy thats going to run by everyone. Hes not a guy you line up and could throw jump balls. Hes not an Elite YAC guy. While a good player his name should not be in the same situation as AJ green, and Julio Jones. Hes 1 tier below. Remember in the NFL "Wide open" could mean inches and is a very small window. Those highlight reels of Cooper where is he wide open by 10-20 yards are completely worthless. So those would be the reasons you could say his ceiling isn't a high as the elite guys. 

 

Kevin White's game translates better to the NFL and is the only Elite WR in this draft. I predict the raiders will take him to pair with Carr hence there will be no elite players for us comment. After White I don't think there is that much separation between Cooper and lets say DGB/Parker.  I could argue either guy's game translates better to the NFL then Coopers. IMO there all in the second tier and surely youll be able to grab one of them 10-20 picks later. 

Appreciate your response.  I agree on the wide open remark, I took all of those plays with a grain of salt.  I also however watched every Kevin White video I could find...and I find his acceleration to be significantly worse on tape.  I went back and took a look at the combine numbers just to supplement that notion:

 

3 cone:

Cooper - 6.71

White - 6.92

 

 

Short Shuttle 

Cooper - 3.98 (best in combine)

White - 4.14

 

 

He doesn't change direction as well which is why I like Cooper more.  The way I see it that will lead to him being open more often on those short/intermediate throws which I value more for a young QB (whomever it is) than the guy who can just be a burner deep.  Lets be clear here though...I'm extrapolating a lot....everyone is.  I just happen to hold more value in receivers ability to change direction.  To each his own.

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afosomf

afosomf

Posted
Posted

Appreciate your response.  I agree on the wide open remark, I took all of those plays with a grain of salt.  I also however watched every Kevin White video I could find...and I find his acceleration to be significantly worse on tape.  I went back and took a look at the combine numbers just to supplement that notion:

 

3 cone:

Cooper - 6.71

White - 6.92

 

 

Short Shuttle 

Cooper - 3.98 (best in combine)

White - 4.14

 

 

He doesn't change direction as well which is why I like Cooper more.  The way I see it that will lead to him being open more often on those short/intermediate throws which I value more for a young QB (whomever it is) than the guy who can just be a burner deep.  Lets be clear here though...I'm extrapolating a lot....everyone is.  I just happen to hold more value in receivers ability to change direction.  To each his own.

Cooper is also plenty fast, he did beat White in 40. White has done well for 1 yr, can he do it every yr

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Miss Lonelyhearts

Miss Lonelyhearts

Posted
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If that's unedited and/or unprompted, that's some impressive sh*t right there.

If it's the Mariucci thing, it's heavily edited. What they showed made it seem like Mariucci did the whiteboard, flipped it, then Winston did it. Mariucci actually drilled him on other stuff for about 10-15 minutes with the play covered up before he had him do the board.

#jamarcusqualities

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T0mShane

T0mShane

Posted
Posted

If it's the Mariucci thing, it's heavily edited. What they showed made it seem like Mariucci did the whiteboard, flipped it, then Winston did it. Mariucci actually drilled him on other stuff for about 10-15 minutes with the play covered up before he had him do the board.

#jamarcusqualities

I wouldn't be able to recall a three word sentence after 10 minutes.

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AVM

AVM

Posted
Posted

That's not the argument I'm making.

 

I'm saying there are more good WRs in this draft than pass rushers. The dropoff between the 2nd best WR (who is probably what we'd get) and the 6th best (who is probably what we'd get in R2) isn't as dramatic as the dropoff between the 1st best pass rusher and whatever pass rusher we'd have to take in R2.

This.

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T0mShane

T0mShane

Posted
Posted

Dupree's jumps.

 

 

Gotcha. I was following along while a draftnik ran comps based on the explosion numbers, and Fowler didn't fare well in any of them. I'm not entirely sure how reliable it is overall, but after watching Mingo and Jordan fail so spectacularly, I'm skeptical of any pass rusher that can't pull a barge with his teeth.

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JetBlue

JetBlue

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Posted

I don't understand where how this opinion continues to hold weight.  I sat down yesterday and watched every single Amari Cooper game footage video I could find...the guy has no flaws.  He changes direction easily, catches everything, is DANGEROUS with the ball in his hands, runs perfect routes AND is verrrry deceptive in his breaks, has blazing straightline speed, and has an insane workout regimen...what exactly is the problem? Are people doubting his "upside" because he doesn't have the body of Calvin Friggin Johnson?  Insane.  Watch the tape, it's legitimately hard not to love him.

 

FWIW...I was a big Cooper hater 3 short days ago.  I fell for all of the reporter hype about him not having a high enough ceiling.  Don't be me, use your eyes.

I don't know anyone who watched him play who doesn't think he is elite.  It is just that so is White, Parker, Strong and possibly DGB and they are all bigger, just as fast, more physical and will go up and take the ball away from the defender.   At the end of the day no one really knows; I don't think you can go wrong with Cooper, White or Parker.  Have my concerns, about DGB...

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JetBlue

JetBlue

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Posted

Cooper is also plenty fast, he did beat White in 40. White has done well for 1 yr, can he do it every yr

White ran a 4.35 and he is 6'3 219.  Cooper is 6'1 210 and they basically ran the same time.  White is a much better leaper, going up and attacking the ball at it's highest point, he plays with agression and can physically dominant his opponent.  He also has tremendous hands; making his share of one handed grabs. He is not the route runner Cooper is and that is where I think Cooper stands out the most.  They guy seemed to be open all the time.  I would take either one and not look back. 

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afosomf

afosomf

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Posted

White ran a 4.35 and he is 6'3 219.  Cooper is 6'1 210 and they basically ran the same time.  White is a much better leaper, going up and attacking the ball at it's highest point, he plays with agression and can physically dominant his opponent.  He also has tremendous hands; making his share of one handed grabs. He is not the route runner Cooper is and that is where I think Cooper stands out the most.  They guy seemed to be open all the time.  I would take either one and not look back. 

Did you watch NFL simulcast, Cooper beat White and Savage did clock Coop at 4.35 for what it is worth

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