$54.75M Cap without cutting Harvin!

[Sperm Edwards]

^{The Draft looks stacked again at Wide Receiver , I'm not keen on keeping a potential cancer player, who's really a Slot guy, and has a history of missing a ton of playing time for 10.5m and losing a 4th to boot. Their are at least 4-5 receivers In he draft which are potential Number ones. You keep ten mill saving from Harvin, sign Mo, give him 25mill guaranteed year one, and with the net -10.5mill Harvin  & -6.9 Mill from Mo's 5th year, its only costing you 7.6M from your cap to do that.} 

 

I have no reservations drafting a WR at #6. None at all. And that player absolutely could be better than Harvin (ideally we think/hope he would be). But will he clearly be more worthy of starting in 2015 (September-October 2015 at that)? Possibly, but history says it's unlikely, no matter how good (or even great) a receiver eventually becomes.

 

What's more, here in February we don't even know who will be there when we pick. Technically, we could be down to our 3rd choice at #6. We might even be down to our 6th choice if we get some bonanza trade offer from Philadelphia. Then if there's a run on the top 4-5 WRs before it's our pick at #20, with teams leapfrogging us because it's no secret we've painted ourselves into a corner at the position? We may still get a good receiver prospect, but the odds are far reduced that we get someone who's good right away, as good as a #6 overall prospect right away, or even worthy of starting right away. And overall, the bust potential goes up the further down we go.

 

These are all what-if's, but it's the job of the GM to contemplate all these possibilities, not assume things are going to go only one way with free agency still weeks away and the draft 2 full months away.

 

 

[section314]

What makes this even tougher is the Kerley extension. They basically play the same roles, but Harvin is much more of a game changer. Wasn't t Kerley's deal done after Percy was acquired? Even if they keep Harvin, having so much$ tied up in slot/ return guys is crazy.

[Sperm Edwards]

Here's what I'm having trouble with:

 

If the goal was to just dump Harvin, to save $10.5M in cap space and prevent downgrading our 4th rounder to a 6th rounder, then fine. No problem. Just do it. Or at least wait to see if you get a sure starter for the year in free agency first. 

 

But if dumping him was the goal, then why now offer Harvin a restructured deal in the first place? This is the part I'm having difficulty with. Because it suggests Maccagnan's decision on Harvin isn't over $10.5M and a 4th round pick downgrade, but rather the decision over this key position was approximately $3M (2% of our salary cap), with the lost draft pick taken out of this equation. 
 
If the decision with Harvin is all about $3M, sorry but I wouldn't risk the upcoming season (or paint ourselves into a corner at the top of the draft) in order to change our available cap space from $55M to $58M (where we still lose the draft pick in either case).  

• If it's all about the money:  then put that money-only squeeze on him August 30th and hold a guaranteed year salary over his head Tannenbaum-Clemens style, not February 20th when he knows Harvin will still have many options to get the same or better elsewhere. 
• If dumping him is about keeping another $10.5M in cap room and our 4th rounder:  I'm OK with that; but then why offer Harvin any deal at all? Particularly a restructured deal that almost assuredly gives 1-2 years of guarantees to a player questionable character.

Maccagnan approaching him with a pay cut offer in February just seems myopic (and quite possibly, foolish and indicative of his inexperience). He unnecessarily painted us into a corner either in the upcoming FA period, or at the top of the draft. And from his point of view he did it over a one-time amount of $3M, in a season when he's got $55M of cap space and more freedom in FA or the top of the draft if he does absolutely nothing with Harvin.  

 

To me, you either want Percy Harvin or you don't want Percy Harvin. I'm ok with Maccagnan taking either stance as part of his plan for this key position, but I'm not ok with what he's effectively done, which is to say:

 

"We do not want Percy Harvin if we're only going to have $55M of cap space remaining, but we absolutely do want him if we can have $58M of cap space remaining [losing a 4th rounder in either instance]."

 

It's a strange stance to take IMO.

[joewilly12]

What makes this even tougher is the Kerley extension. They basically play the same roles, but Harvin is much more of a game changer. Wasn't t Kerley's deal done after Percy was acquired? Even if they keep Harvin, having so much$ tied up in slot/ return guys is crazy.

The deal Idzik gave Kerley wasn't a good one he hasn't played all that well to deserve it id consider asking him to restructure along with everyone else who is overpaid and underachieving 

[section314]

The deal Idzik gave Kerley wasn't a good one he hasn't played all that well to deserve it id consider asking him to restructure along with everyone else who is overpaid and underachieving

Agreed. All things being equal, you would take Harvin over Kerley every day of the week. What is Kerley's cap hit if released?

[Savage69]

I don't think they've made their decision on Harvin yet. Plenty of teams are cutting players, but Harvin remains on the roster here. They have a week or ten days of the new football year to find replacement playmakers in free agency, and if they do, I think then you'll see Harvin cut. That could be a different, more "natural" WR, or it could be a guy like C.J. Spiller, but it looks to me like they're going to put that time to use.

People have some black & white opinions on this, but I just don't see it as black & white at all. I'd like to see them move on from Harvin, he's not worth a 4th rounder and $10.5M IMHO, but I also think it wouldn't be prudent to dump him without knowing they have some new talent in place. A team as devoid of playmakers as the Jets just can't afford to do that. They can afford the $10.5M, though.

How could they other then film doesn't the Players Assn forbid team contact with players until authorized mini camps??

[FidelioJet]

Agreed. All things being equal, you would take Harvin over Kerley every day of the week. What is Kerley's cap hit if released?

 

This is a legit question.  That's the sticking point with me on the Harvin issue.  If we didn't already have a slot receiver I would be inclined to say pay him the $10mm and let's see what he does.  Having both him and Kerely just doesn't sit right with me.

 

I must admit it's not a particularly logical thought but it's bothering me.

[32EBoozer]

Here's what I'm having trouble with:

 

 

But if dumping him was the goal, then why now offer Harvin a restructured deal in the first place? This is the part I'm having difficulty with. Because it suggests Maccagnan's decision on Harvin isn't over $10.5M and a 4th round pick downgrade, but rather the decision over this key position was approximately $3M (2% of our salary cap), with the lost draft pick taken out of this equation. 

 

 

Maccagnan approaching him with a pay cut offer in February just seems myopic (and quite possibly, foolish and indicative of his inexperience). He unnecessarily painted us into a corner either in the upcoming FA period, or at the top of the draft. And from his point of view he did it over a one-time amount of $3M, in a season when he's got $55M of cap space and more freedom in FA or the top of the draft if he does absolutely nothing with Harvin.  

 

Spermin' Hermin', are we absolutely sure Mac came at Harvin's agents with a "take it or leave it" restructured deal?

 

I know there have been ESPN and JN discussions of it and articles saying "Harvin refuses to restructure"... If I were Maccagnan, I wouldn't say 1 word about Harvin or take any calls from his agents. I would make the Harvin camp and other teams unsure of our plans all the way up to decision day. 

 

New general manager Mike Maccagnan would not speculate on whether the former offensive rookie of the year would be back with the Jets. Coach Todd Bowles was no more forthcoming on the topic.

"That’s a process we’re working through," Maccagnan said. "We’re going to talk to his agent. We do think Percy is a very good player, but that’s a process we’re working through right now."

[GenoandtheJets]

That's a heck of a lot of cap room. Sign Harvin back. Bring back Cro and maybe Revis. Hopefully Maccagnan spends the money wisely on players that can get this team into championship form. I believe he'll do what he thinks is right. Also with that much cap room they absolutely have to resign Mo Wilkerson to a contract extension.

[section314]

This is a legit question.  That's the sticking point with me on the Harvin issue.  If we didn't already have a slot receiver I would be inclined to say pay him the $10mm and let's see what he does.  Having both him and Kerely just doesn't sit right with me.

 

I must admit it's not a particularly logical thought but it's bothering me.

Great minds think alike.Lol.

[Villain The Foe]

According to a Rich Cimini tweet, the new cap will be $143m, meaning the Jets have 54.75M cap space even without cuttin Harvin. It's very likely we will have almost $65M soon.

Latest salary cap report from @ESPNStatsInfo: Jets will have $54.75M in cap space, based on a $143m cap. Only JAX with more room. #nyj

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichCimini/status/571039814805544961

Jacksonville has an opportunity right now. If they can get a TE, RB, Olineman and some pieces on defense they could really shake up that AFC South division. 

[joewilly12]

According to a Rich Cimini tweet, the new cap will be $143m, meaning the Jets have 54.75M cap space even without cuttin Harvin. It's very likely we will have almost $65M soon.

Latest salary cap report from @ESPNStatsInfo: Jets will have $54.75M in cap space, based on a $143m cap. Only JAX with more room. #nyj

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichCimini/status/571039814805544961

The Jets need to keep Harvin and build up the OL address the RB situation Ivory needs help and the defense needs LBs CBs and a S 

[Embrace the Suck]

What I do like it enables us to front end load contracts, and re-sign Mo with Big early money, that does not screw us further down the line.

First rule of Jets club is: You don't front load contracts.

Second rule of Jets club is: YOU DON'T FRONT LOAD CONTRACTS.

 

Didn't we learn with Revis? The guy who took more money up front, and then held out for more when the contract became team friendly after being player friendly.

 

If, and it's a big IF, if you trust a guy it makes sense to front load when you have tons of cap space. I'm with you. However, all to often I've seen players take the big money up front and then let their ego get the best of them later on when they can't brag about their contract number and hold out despite knowing the contract structure prior to signing it.

[slats]

This is a legit question.  That's the sticking point with me on the Harvin issue.  If we didn't already have a slot receiver I would be inclined to say pay him the $10mm and let's see what he does.  Having both him and Kerely just doesn't sit right with me.

 

I must admit it's not a particularly logical thought but it's bothering me.

I don't see Harvin as even a pure slot guy, though, either. Kerley is probably a more disciplined route runner. Harvin is a guy that you just try to get the ball to. You can line him up inside, outside, or in the backfield. That's why I think if they land a guy like Spiller (an idea I'm not in love wither, either) they can pretty comfortably let Harvin go. Spiller would become their bubble screen guy, the guy they try to get into space. Then maybe rely on the first couple rounds of the draft for a new WR - which I'd kinda hope they'd do with or without Harvin.

[Sperm Edwards]

Spermin' Hermin', are we absolutely sure Mac came at Harvin's agents with a "take it or leave it" restructured deal?

 

I know there have been ESPN and JN discussions of it and articles saying "Harvin refuses to restructure"... If I were Maccagnan, I wouldn't say 1 word about Harvin or take any calls from his agents. I would make the Harvin camp and other teams unsure of our plans all the way up to decision day. 

 

New general manager Mike Maccagnan would not speculate on whether the former offensive rookie of the year would be back with the Jets. Coach Todd Bowles was no more forthcoming on the topic.

"That’s a process we’re working through," Maccagnan said. "We’re going to talk to his agent. We do think Percy is a very good player, but that’s a process we’re working through right now."

No I do not know and I really hope it isn't so, because it would have been foolish and speaks to whether Maccagnan is a chess or checkers player.

 

I agree with you (which is what my post was about), in that Maccagnan shouldn't say anything concrete until final poop or get off the pot decision day, and certainly shouldn't speak directly to Harvin or his agent(s). Harvin's under contract for $10.5M for the year so on the surface there's nothing to discuss unless one side wants something from the other side. It seems they're unlikely to come to Maccagnan on their own; players/agents initiate when they're seeking pay raises, not pay reductions. 

[joewilly12]

I don't see Harvin as even a pure slot guy, though, either. Kerley is probably a more disciplined route runner. Harvin is a guy that you just try to get the ball to. You can line him up inside, outside, or in the backfield. That's why I think if they land a guy like Spiller (an idea I'm not in love wither, either) they can pretty comfortably let Harvin go. Spiller would become their bubble screen guy, the guy they try to get into space. Then maybe rely on the first couple rounds of the draft for a new WR - which I'd kinda hope they'd do with or without Harvin.

Harvin and Spiller would be awesome it would give this vanilla offense some speed and spark unless we draft a WR in the first round I dont think the draft is all that deep at WR 

[32EBoozer]

Harvin and Spiller would be awesome it would give this vanilla offense some speed and spark unless we draft a WR in the first round I dont think the draft is all that deep at WR 

Do you think Harvin can beat Revis?

Do you think Harvin can stay healthy for a full season?

Do you think Harvin can be the field stretcher that opens things up for Decker/Amaro.

 

Are you sure enough to give up a 4th round pick?

If so, I guess we'll all know the answer to that in November.

Would hate to miss out on Bryce Petty or maybe that is the Mike Glennon pick?

We'll see soon enough!

[joewilly12]

Do you think Harvin can beat Revis?

Do you think Harvin can stay healthy for a full season?

Do you think Harvin can be the field stretcher that opens things up for Decker/Amaro.

 

Are you sure enough to give up a 4th round pick?

If so, I guess we'll all know the answer to that in November.

Would hate to miss out on Bryce Petty or maybe that is the Mike Glennon pick?

We'll see soon enough!

We need offensive playmakers Harvin is just that and he is also a KR which helps with field position a 4th round pock might not even make the roster been there done that. 

 

We arent starved for cap space look at the list of WRs Harvin is top 3 

 

Beat Revis? Tough task but many have Harvin is not an expendable player in my opinion. 

[Clementi49]

we arent even talking about percy Harvin this or that without the great moves of our former standout GM.

[ylekram]

Or we can just thank Idzik for being super frugal. Cutting everyone. Gaining tons of cap space. And than McCags comes in ,a real football guy" and spends the right money on the right players. Joint effort.

So when we win it all. All the credit goes to the

Idzik - McCags tandem.

Idzik cleaned house. McCags built it back up.

half of me thinks that you are being sarcastic, but just incase.I have never seen such high praise for a gm that fielded a bottom feeder roster for 2 straight years. you do realize what idzik really did,dont you? he cut 3 players that were no brainer cuts to clear 50m of cap space and used very little to improve the team, at the same time, costing everyone in the building their jobs, including himself. now that's a man with a plan. martyr

[Ex-Rex]

I don't want the Jets to cut Harvin just to save money - although that will be nice - I want them to cut him because he sucks. Kyle Wilson type sucks. Doesn't make many - if any - plays.

[bitonti]

So ~$64 million, + retaining our 4th round pick, if we cut him.

 

Sign me up for 64 million and a 4th.

 

Let the rebuild begin.

 

if the Jets cut everyone they might have 141 million in cap room 

 

wow! 

 

then they can rebuild. Like really for real. 

[Shockwave]

I think this is a really simple cut and I don't see the debate. 

 

If you want Percy Harvin on the team long term you want him to be cut. Theres no way anyone is paying him 10m a year long term. If you want him here long term your best chance is cutting him and signing him to a 3 year 20 million dollar deal or so on the open market. He clearly is not signing a longer deal until seeing whats out there so let him. 

 

We are a rebuild - this isn't about this year anyway. One year of Harvin does nothing for us.

[drdetroit]

We need to give mo Wilkerson that half a billion dollar extension

[Savage69]

if the Jets cut everyone they might have 141 million in cap room 

 

wow! 

 

then they can rebuild. Like really for real. 

Your guy Mevis would come back for 141 million guaranteed..LOL

[OuttaSightPF]

According to a Rich Cimini tweet, the new cap will be $143m, meaning the Jets have 54.75M cap space even without cuttin Harvin. It's very likely we will have almost $65M soon.

Latest salary cap report from @ESPNStatsInfo: Jets will have $54.75M in cap space, based on a $143m cap. Only JAX with more room. #nyj

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichCimini/status/571039814805544961

Is it possible to spend 85-100% of 65 million in one offseason with out a franchise QB? Seriously. I think we need to keep Harvin at full price for 2015. There's no way he renegotiates, and if we try to cut and resign he's defeinatley going somewhere else. I am not interested in him long term, but why let a talent like this walk if we are under zero pressure cap wise?

Torrey Smith, Decker, Harvin, Kerly, Amaro, Ivory, Spiller, D'Brick, Mangold, Iupati...... and a bunch of draft picks like La'el Collins, Duke Johnson, Nock O'leary.

Even a B- QB could win with that group.

[David Harris]

I'd like us to cut Harvin and sign Steve Johnson. We need to keep that fourth, plus paying a slot guy 10 mill with Geno throwing him the ball no for me.

How bout Randall Cobb, the bet receiver of the 3 (Harving, Stevie, Cobb) who'd be thrilled to get Harvin's current contract value- keep your 4th rounder and get a better player who can play vertical and not just horizontal like Percy.

[BurnleyJet]

How bout Randall Cobb, the bet receiver of the 3 (Harving, Stevie, Cobb) who'd be thrilled to get Harvin's current contract value- keep your 4th rounder and get a better player who can play vertical and not just horizontal like Percy.

Nice thought No 52, it's the 4th that bothers me more then the 10 Mill for Harvin. Cobb's got a lot more in his locker, and not oft injury Diva like Harvin to boot.

[32EBoozer]

I think this is a really simple cut and I don't see the debate. 

 

If you want Percy Harvin on the team long term you want him to be cut. Theres no way anyone is paying him 10m a year long term. If you want him here long term your best chance is cutting him and signing him to a 3 year 20 million dollar deal or so on the open market. He clearly is not signing a longer deal until seeing whats out there so let him. 

 

We are a rebuild - this isn't about this year anyway. One year of Harvin does nothing for us.

If they do cut him and re-sign him before Draft do we still lose the 4th rd. pick?

[joewilly12]

Im hoping Harvin renegotiates a long term Jets cap friendly deal here can't take the Harvin hate here anymore we finally get a playmaker who can help this offense and mostly everyone wants him gone

[Dcat]

If they do cut him and re-sign him before Draft do we still lose the 4th rd. pick?

 

yes.  Vilma Rule

[32EBoozer]

yes.  Vilma Rule

did the NFL put a rule on the books after the Saints screwed us? I was unaware of that.

[Warfish]

if the Jets cut everyone they might have 141 million in cap room 

 

wow! 

 

then they can rebuild. Like really for real. 

 

Yes, because wanting to cut one injury-prone, expensive, locker room cancer who averages 600 yards a year and requires the sacrifice of our 4th round pick in a rebuild year MUST mean I want to cut the entire team, right?

 

 I have no doubt in my mind that if Macags is a competent talent evaluator, and we all hope he is, we can do better with 10 million AND our 4th than we could do retaining Harvin to prop up another year where we're clearly not going to be a Champion-quality team.  

 

Keeping Harvin is playing for the chance of one more win in non-championship 2015.

 

Cutting Harvin, and drafting/signing a better, healthier, better attitude, cheaper prospect is playing for a Title long term.

 

Somehow, even when (Not if IMO) Macags cuts Harvin, I'm pretty sure we'll sign/draft other guys, with less issues, less injury history, and higher upside going the long term, to fill the WR spots.

[LouisvilleSlugger25]

No one let Idzik finish his plan he started. Now McCags reaps the rewards of all the cap space john "the genius" Idzik created

 

That's what most people don't realize. McCags, as you like to call him, stepped into a GREAT cap situation and team that is more talented than most like to give us credit for (at the very least one of the top couple of D-lines in all of football). If McCags can hit on a QB (whether Mariota, another rookie or a vet) this team could get really good really fast.....assuming they use up that 65 million to help our secondary/OL/Playmakers). 

[HOZ THE JET]

According to a Rich Cimini tweet, the new cap will be $143m, meaning the Jets have 54.75M cap space even without cuttin Harvin. It's very likely we will have almost $65M soon.

Latest salary cap report from @ESPNStatsInfo: Jets will have $54.75M in cap space, based on a $143m cap. Only JAX with more room. #nyj

https://mobile.twitter.com/RichCimini/status/571039814805544961

So basically we are going to have 65mil, I will extend our own players first then splurge on free agency so no hard feelings in the locker room they need to get Wilkerson done