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$54.75M Cap without cutting Harvin!


BurnleyJet

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Id rather give Harvin money to a WR who isnt a gimmick and can make plays down field, but Gailey may feel differently. Frankly I feel players like Harvin are easily replaced.

They are, Philip Dorsett comes to mind & they have him project to be a 2nd day pick that kid can ball you tube him.

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Yes, because wanting to cut one injury-prone, expensive, locker room cancer who averages 600 yards a year and requires the sacrifice of our 4th round pick in a rebuild year MUST mean I want to cut the entire team, right?

 

 I have no doubt in my mind that if Macags is a competent talent evaluator, and we all hope he is, we can do better with 10 million AND our 4th than we could do retaining Harvin to prop up another year where we're clearly not going to be a Champion-quality team.  

 

Keeping Harvin is playing for the chance of one more win in non-championship 2015.

 

Cutting Harvin, and drafting/signing a better, healthier, better attitude, cheaper prospect is playing for a Title long term.

 

Somehow, even when (Not if IMO) Macags cuts Harvin, I'm pretty sure we'll sign/draft other guys, with less issues, less injury history, and higher upside going the long term, to fill the WR spots.

 

That is pretty much how I see it.  And I am hoping that having that 4th will help Mccagz take a QB prospect in the mid rounds or Hundley with that pick if he's there..

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 Somehow, even when (Not if IMO) Macags cuts Harvin, I'm pretty sure we'll sign/draft other guys, with less issues, less injury history, and higher upside going the long term, to fill the WR spots.

 

oh they'll sign other guys but not with a higher upside.  jets fans underrate how good Percy Harvin can actually be. 

 

hes the type of player other teams have to account for when they game plan because he's a game breaker

 

the Jets need more guys like that not less. 

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oh they'll sign other guys but not with a higher upside. jets fans underrate how good Percy Harvin can actually be.

hes the type of player other teams have to account for when they game plan because he's a game breaker

the Jets need more guys like that not less.

Agree but he's also a malcontent and the offer signified Macags belief in his ability while also trying to incentivize him to not be a lockerroom sh*t stain. Macag has a lot of work in front of him scrubbing off the Rex attitude stench in the locker room, and a carte Blanche deal to Harvin wouldn't send the right message.
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Agree but he's also a malcontent and the offer signified Macags belief in his ability while also trying to incentivize him to not be a lockerroom sh*t stain. Macag has a lot of work in front of him scrubbing off the Rex attitude stench in the locker room, and a carte Blanche deal to Harvin wouldn't send the right message.

 

Don't disagree with this.. however I still think it will come down to who the Jets can wrap up before the deadline to cut Harvin. Sign Johnson and Spiller combined for less than Harvin,and he's gone. Sign Cobb? Sure.. cut Harvin. But if we get passed up by Cobb,Crabtree,Smith and Johnson and didn't get a deal done with Spiller, I can't see them cutting Harvin.

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Agree but he's also a malcontent and the offer signified Macags belief in his ability while also trying to incentivize him to not be a lockerroom sh*t stain. Macag has a lot of work in front of him scrubbing off the Rex attitude stench in the locker room, and a carte Blanche deal to Harvin wouldn't send the right message.

 

An extension with guaranteed lower money is an incentive to be a locker room sh*t stain.  Keeping him on year to year, non-guaranteed, high salary deals - where the gravy train is dependent upon both high character and high performance - is the way one counters that. 

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oh they'll sign other guys but not with a higher upside.  jets fans underrate how good Percy Harvin can actually be. 

 

hes the type of player other teams have to account for when they game plan because he's a game breaker

 

the Jets need more guys like that not less. 

Upside is that thing which never happens with a ton of guys.  Percy has been around a long time now.  If he was 22 or 23 I might think "Wow. Upside. Yeah!"  From what I saw last year I say no.  Maybe not for any price.

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oh they'll sign other guys but not with a higher upside.  jets fans underrate how good Percy Harvin can actually be. 

 

hes the type of player other teams have to account for when they game plan because he's a game breaker

 

the Jets need more guys like that not less. 

 

And some fans seem to vastly underestimate his injury history, disgruntled personality, and lack of actual performance when his career is looked at in total.

 

He's the type of player who is as likely to hurt us as help us.  And he costs 10 million and a 4th round pick.

 

The Jets need less guys like him, the old "sign a name" thinking, guys with injury, attitude and production issues but who can sell a few jerseys to the punters, and they need more guys aimed for the future and winning titles.

 

Harvin is simply not our future.  And I think our GM will make that clear soon enough.

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this team needs a true #1WR and Harvin is not that I say cut him and take that 4th draft a WR or move up in the 2nd and get one of those guys that fall a bit.the guy is a good player but not a true #1

Who ever said we wouldn't draft or sign a WR if Harvin remained in the roster? If anything last year should have showed you and all jets fans how important depth is at WR.

Decker pulls a hamstring week 1 it ended our season.

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I don't want the Jets to cut Harvin just to save money - although that will be nice - I want them to cut him because he sucks. Kyle Wilson type sucks. Doesn't make many - if any - plays.

 

See, this attitude I've got no beef with. Agree or disagree with your opinion of Harvin I don't care. But pick a position - want him or don't want him - and stick with it.

 

The only move I don't like is Maccagnan waffling over him over $3M for 1 season, while we otherwise have a hole at the position, and while the team has to spend some $40M in cash. Use it on Harvin or don't. But don't take the position that we'll part with the draft pick for him if we can still have $58M in cap space (and we're locked into Harvin for 2 seasons), but it's not worth parting with the draft pick if we're only going to have $55M (and can cut bait with him whenever we want prior to opening day).

 

I'm all for watching how much we award (or over-award) a player, but in the team's present financial situation that's just stupid to me.

 

For one season, when:

- we may draft a WR high and we may not, with an unknown readiness of that player to start and be effective immediately

- we're at unknown status re upcoming attempt/success in signing a FA to replace him

- with $50-60M in cap space

- Harvin is under contract for more than he's worth, but with $0 in guaranteed money

- we may be drafting a rookie QB and/or fielding Geno Smith again, either of whom will need all the receiver help possible

 

...in this situation, if he's worth $7.5M with $10M in guarantees plus a 4th round pick, then he's worth $10.5M with no guarantees plus a 4th round pick. Or looked at the other way, if he's not worth $10.5M for 1 season we're searching for his replacement, then he isn't worth $7.5M per for 3 years either (since he probably still would get $10.5M or more in guaranteed money with a restructure).

 

So you (Ex-Rex) take the position he's not worth either amount, and I'm not opposed to that. I'm also not opposed to keeping him if they know (or think they know) he's in tip-top shape and the team's position is he's a veteran, premiere talent in his physical prime, and we'll keep him for this one season (but retain the ability to cut him on 8/30 with no cap hit whatsoever since he has no guarantees).

 

But this wishy-washy "we'd keep him if only his price tag this year was $3M less" is moronic. What the hell's the difference to a GM if we have $55M in cap space or $58M in cap space in 1 season if he thinks Harvin's at least a $7.5M/year playmaker WR?

 

That logic is a tough sell - if not baffling - to me.

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See, this attitude I've got no beef with. Agree or disagree with your opinion of Harvin I don't care. But pick a position - want him or don't want him - and stick with it.

The only move I don't like is Maccagnan waffling over him over $3M for 1 season, while we otherwise have a hole at the position, and while the team has to spend some $40M in cash. Use it on Harvin or don't. But don't take the position that we'll part with the draft pick for him if we can still have $58M in cap space (and we're locked into Harvin for 2 seasons), but it's not worth parting with the draft pick if we're only going to have $55M (and can cut bait with him whenever we want prior to opening day).

I'm all for watching how much we award (or over-award) a player, but in the team's present financial situation that's just stupid to me.

For one season, when:

- we may draft a WR high and we may not, with an unknown readiness of that player to start and be effective immediately

- we're at unknown status re upcoming attempt/success in signing a FA to replace him

- with $50-60M in cap space

- Harvin is under contract for more than he's worth, but with $0 in guaranteed money

- we may be drafting a rookie QB and/or fielding Geno Smith again, either of whom will need all the receiver help possible

...in this situation, if he's worth $7.5M with $10M in guarantees plus a 4th round pick, then he's worth $10.5M with no guarantees plus a 4th round pick. Or looked at the other way, if he's not worth $10.5M for 1 season we're searching for his replacement, then he isn't worth $7.5M per for 3 years either (since he probably still would get $10.5M or more in guaranteed money with a restructure).

So you (Ex-Rex) take the position he's not worth either amount, and I'm not opposed to that. I'm also not opposed to keeping him if they know (or think they know) he's in tip-top shape and the team's position is he's a veteran, premiere talent in his physical prime, and we'll keep him for this one season (but retain the ability to cut him on 8/30 with no cap hit whatsoever since he has no guarantees).

But this wishy-washy "we'd keep him if only his price tag this year was $3M less" is moronic. What the hell's the difference to a GM if we have $55M in cap space or $58M in cap space in 1 season if he thinks Harvin's at least a $7.5M/year playmaker WR?

That logic is a tough sell - if not baffling - to me.

I get where your coming from.....if he's worth keeping for the 4th then the extra $3mil this season shouldn't matter with all the cap space we have....and it shouldnt.

But when you have to give up a 4th you want that player to be here for more than 1 season, get the best value possible. So if they have Harvin on a more friendly team contract that they can see paying for the next 2-3 years then it's easier to give up the 4th, as oppose to giving up a 4th for only 1 year of him on the team. That's how I see it.

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I get where your coming from.....if he's worth keeping for the 4th then the extra $3mil this season shouldn't matter with all the cap space we have....and it shouldnt.

But when you have to give up a 4th you want that player to be here for more than 1 season, get the best value possible. So if they have Harvin on a more friendly team contract that they can see paying for the next 2-3 years then it's easier to give up the 4th, as oppose to giving up a 4th for only 1 year of him on the team. That's how I see it.

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Except he is also exactly the type of player you do not trust with guaranteed money for the next year or two. 

They type he is, to me, is the kind you keep always worried he'll get cut and knows he won't get his annual 8-figure payday for the season from anyone else. It's an incentive to keep him playing at a high level and not being a dirtbag. Guaranteeing the next year-plus, before we even hit the draft, is an invitation to tell him to do whatever he pleases because he gets paid either way. At least leaving it alone we can cut him on August 31st if he's being a douche in the locker room (or the huddle), or is being a poor influence on younger players.

 

I think giving him a bonus or other guarantees increases the likelihood that we would not want him beyond this season, even at a reduced rate. 

 

If healthy and if he's matured a bit (ok, a lot), then he might actually be worth $10.5M for 1 season (he does more than just the role of a traditional WR). Even people who want him gone at any price realize he has a lot of talent and at any time is a threat to do serious damage to the opposition. The problem is we're super-unlikely to see it for 16 games, or consistently even if healthy, and his attitude only makes it that much worse.

 

The only move I wouldn't make is restructuring him. He's not a long term building block type of guy (or hasn't shown to be thus far in his career). He's lightning in a bottle and could be a stud for any 1 season (if healthy). But the day he knows you've put your faith in him and he's uncuttable, that's the day you start to want him away from your team. Think Santonio Holmes, but who does more things.

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ok so let's review

 

Demaryious Thomas is tagged 

 

Dez Bryant is tagged

 

Cobb and Maclin are likely to sign long term deals

 

who on the market is going to be better than Percy Harvin? 

 

you guys talk about bargains and what a player is worth blah blah blah

 

Is Harvin perfect? No but there's no perfect players just waiting for the jets' phone call 

 

it's supply and demand. for good NFL players there's a huge demand and no supply. 

 

The jets can have 100 million dollars in cap space, that and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway. 

 

and warfish, please don't talk about the future. I'm tired of watching this team get worse every year in the hope of some wonderful future (that's never going to arrive)

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And some fans seem to vastly underestimate his injury history, disgruntled personality, and lack of actual performance when his career is looked at in total.

 

He's the type of player who is as likely to hurt us as help us.  And he costs 10 million and a 4th round pick.

 

The Jets need less guys like him, the old "sign a name" thinking, guys with injury, attitude and production issues but who can sell a few jerseys to the punters, and they need more guys aimed for the future and winning titles.

 

Harvin is simply not our future.  And I think our GM will make that clear soon enough.

 

I am not sure how much influence Gailey will have, but when he was in Dallas they gave a fairly significant deal to Rocket Ismail who was leading receiver and went for over 1,000. 

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ok so let's review

 

Demaryious Thomas is tagged 

 

Dez Bryant is tagged

 

Cobb and Maclin are likely to sign long term deals

 

who on the market is going to be better than Percy Harvin? 

 

you guys talk about bargains and what a player is worth blah blah blah

 

Is Harvin perfect? No but there's no perfect players just waiting for the jets' phone call 

 

it's supply and demand. for good NFL players there's a huge demand and no supply. 

 

The jets can have 100 million dollars in cap space, that and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway. 

 

and warfish, please don't talk about the future. I'm tired of watching this team get worse every year in the hope of some wonderful future (that's never going to arrive)

 

Harvin is a gadget player. He's injury prone, always banged up. In a lot of ways he's a more explosive, talented Joe McKnight so let's not look for WR options if you want to replace Harvin, because he just is not your typical wideout. You don't replace Harvin with Demaryius Thomas or any other outside receiver. I'd feel VERY good about replacing Harvin with Kerley. We still need somebody outside opposite Decker and the guy I'd want is Torrey Smith. Decker & Smith outside, Kerley in the slot. No way you spend 10-15 mil. on Harvin to run those garbage plays out of the backfield or those bubble screens from the slot position. Spend the money on a true wideout who is a difference maker. Torrey Smith didn't have a great year statistically but in terms of stretching the field he's one of the elite guys in the NFL. He could have had a tremendous year if not for all the flags he's drawn. Give me my 4th round pick, give me the 10-15 mil. salary and you can have Harvin. Only thing that makes me think twice about this is the Pats might snatch him up and of course he's gonna put up 3k yards or something over there and go to the Pro Bowl.

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ok so let's review

Demaryious Thomas is tagged

Dez Bryant is tagged

Cobb and Maclin are likely to sign long term deals

who on the market is going to be better than Percy Harvin?

you guys talk about bargains and what a player is worth blah blah blah

Is Harvin perfect? No but there's no perfect players just waiting for the jets' phone call

it's supply and demand. for good NFL players there's a huge demand and no supply.

The jets can have 100 million dollars in cap space, that and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway.

and warfish, please don't talk about the future. I'm tired of watching this team get worse every year in the hope of some wonderful future (that's never going to arrive)

Sidney Rice is available

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ok so let's review

 

Demaryious Thomas is tagged 

 

Dez Bryant is tagged

 

Cobb and Maclin are likely to sign long term deals

 

who on the market is going to be better than Percy Harvin?

Sounds alot like a guy who cares if we go 7-9 instead of 6-10 in 2015, without caring about beyond 2015 tbqh.

 

you guys talk about bargains and what a player is worth blah blah blah

 

Yes, heaven forbid we consider cost-benefit analysis and long-term goals of winning a title, right?

 

Is Harvin perfect? No but there's no perfect players just waiting for the jets' phone call  

 

Indeed, he's a 600 Yard/year locker room cancer with a long injury history and a talent set that is more razzle-dazzle tricky that WR talent.

 

That's a bit more than "not perfect".  It a huge, costly risk (loss of 4th, loss of playing time for other long-term prospects, locker room issues, etc) for what gain again, an extra win (maybe, if we're REALLY lucky) in year one of an obvious total rebuild?

 

it's supply and demand. for good NFL players there's a huge demand and no supply.

 

Supply is about to increase by a few dozen, if not hundred, new WR's.

 

Drafting one is looking longterm, looking for titles.  

 

Going Harvin is caring that 2015 is a "fun" year whilst we lose and rebuild.

 

The jets can have 100 million dollars in cap space, that and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway. 

 

Wow.  

 

and warfish, please don't talk about the future.

Yes, why would I want to talk about the only thing that matters, long-term success and building a Champion.

 

Whoo, Harvin rules, when we're all stupid drunk next year sitting at 8 loses already, he'll make those loses more FUN!

 

(Fun available only in certain States, fun is dependant upon injury and attitude issues, past performance is usually indicative of future potential, please see D.Robertson for details).

 

I'm tired of watching this team get worse every year in the hope of some wonderful future (that's never going to arrive)

Then don't watch them.

Or, conversely, start thinking about whats good for winning titles, not whats good to make the last three games of 2015 slightly less intolerable.

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Warfish the road to winning titles starts with winning games. Making this team worse, how does that make them more likely to win a title?  Long term success is a great slogan but at some point you have to win football games in the short term. 

 

I don't believe any rookie will be as good as Percy Harvin in 2015. Do you think Kevin White will be Odell Beckham Jr?

 

You talk about his 600 yard production why aren't you crying about Decker's production? a WR's production depends on the QB who feeds him. Or doesn't. 

 

as for not watching the Jets, don't worry dude, i'm getting there. 

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Warfish the road to winning titles starts with winning games.

No it doesn't.

It starts with making good, smart, long-term player personnel decisions.

Giving up a 4th, paying 10 million, for one year of an oft-injured, attitude-problem, 600 yard-a-year trickster KR/WR is not a good, long-term, player-persoonel decision.

It's a short term circus for the masses and drunks. A "name" for the ignorant plebes to root for, another jersey seller, not a game winner.

 

Making this team worse, how does that make them more likely to win a title?

You presume we'll be worse. Facts do not support such an assertion, for example, Harvin has a greater than average chance of getting hurt next year, leaving us short our 4th round pick, the 10 million AND the WR you so love.

Presuming he'll play 6, have a good attitude, catch for 1,300 yards.....it's possible, sure. Just not very likely.

 

Long term success is a great slogan but at some point you have to win football games in the short term.

I don;t see Harvin vs. the alternatives as a meaningful difference in short term games won. Not on this team, at this time, with this QB. 

 

I don't believe any rookie will be as good as Percy Harvin in 2015.

Laughable. I'm sure there will be a few who do more than get hurt, wreck the locker room, and maybe, if we're lucky, catch for 600 yards.

 

You talk about his 600 yard production why aren't you crying about Decker's production? a WR's production depends on the QB who feeds him. Or doesn't.

Because Decker is not particularly injury prone, he's not a locker room cancer, and he's a solid WR, not a razzle-dazzle running back/kr.

 

as for not watching the Jets, don't worry dude, i'm getting there.

/shrug, what, you want pity?

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Warfish the road to winning titles starts with winning games. Making this team worse, how does that make them more likely to win a title? Long term success is a great slogan but at some point you have to win football games in the short term.

I don't believe any rookie will be as good as Percy Harvin in 2015. Do you think Kevin White will be Odell Beckham Jr?

You talk about his 600 yard production why aren't you crying about Decker's production? a WR's production depends on the QB who feeds him. Or doesn't.

as for not watching the Jets, don't worry dude, i'm getting there.

James Jones may also be available too if the raiders cut hiim because he sucks.

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Personally, I'd rather get rid of Harvin and sign Cobb for a little less money. Cobb is a just as good of a returner as Harvin and an arguably better receiver. He also doesn't have the injury concerns that Harvin has.

 

He's asking for 9 million (most likely won't get that) a year which is already less than Harvin's contract now.

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Yes, because wanting to cut one injury-prone, expensive, locker room cancer who averages 600 yards a year and requires the sacrifice of our 4th round pick in a rebuild year MUST mean I want to cut the entire team, right?

 

 I have no doubt in my mind that if Macags is a competent talent evaluator, and we all hope he is, we can do better with 10 million AND our 4th than we could do retaining Harvin to prop up another year where we're clearly not going to be a Champion-quality team.  

 

Keeping Harvin is playing for the chance of one more win in non-championship 2015.

 

Cutting Harvin, and drafting/signing a better, healthier, better attitude, cheaper prospect is playing for a Title long term.

 

Somehow, even when (Not if IMO) Macags cuts Harvin, I'm pretty sure we'll sign/draft other guys, with less issues, less injury history, and higher upside going the long term, to fill the WR spots.

Hit the Nail on the head Fish. 

 

 

That's what most people don't realize. McCags, as you like to call him, stepped into a GREAT cap situation and team that is more talented than most like to give us credit for (at the very least one of the top couple of D-lines in all of football). If McCags can hit on a QB (whether Mariota, another rookie or a vet) this team could get really good really fast.....assuming they use up that 65 million to help our secondary/OL/Playmakers). 

 

I would disagree with the Talent of our team. 

 

We are one of the worst teams talent wise in the league. You could look at Points For/Against or Break down position groups and our team is a bottom 5 team in the league. No Playmakers on Offense and an Oline that has to be totally rebuilt in the next few years. No QB. Poor secondary. Old Slow LB's(Besides Davis). Poor special teams.  We do have a great young core of Dlineman - However they all need new contracts this and next year. Which brings me to our cap : Its not going to look as good if we give 100 million dollar contracts to Sheldon and Wilkerson - and Big Contracts to Coples/Harrison. Just those 4 guys can bring our cap down 35-40m per year depending on the structure. Wilkerson10-12m, Sheldson 10-12m, Coples and Harrison 6-8m.

 

After years of bad drafting - Some extra draft picks could really help. Using Mariota as a trade chip would help. I feel a A TON more confident in our new Scouting department to actually get guys we need. I am also very curious our FA strategy. Some team will go for one huge investment like Suh -- But I would rather a bunch of mid level guys like Spiller, Stevie Johnson, and Jordon Cameron. 

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Hit the Nail on the head Fish. 

 

I would disagree with the Talent of our team. 

 

We are one of the worst teams talent wise in the league. You could look at Points For/Against or Break down position groups and our team is a bottom 5 team in the league. No Playmakers on Offense and an Oline that has to be totally rebuilt in the next few years. No QB. Poor secondary. Old Slow LB's(Besides Davis). Poor special teams.  We do have a great young core of Dlineman - However they all need new contracts this and next year. Which brings me to our cap : Its not going to look as good if we give 100 million dollar contracts to Sheldon and Wilkerson - and Big Contracts to Coples/Harrison. Just those 4 guys can bring our cap down 35-40m per year depending on the structure. Wilkerson10-12m, Sheldson 10-12m, Coples and Harrison 6-8m.

 

After years of bad drafting - Some extra draft picks could really help. Using Mariota as a trade chip would help. I feel a A TON more confident in our new Scouting department to actually get guys we need. I am also very curious our FA strategy. Some team will go for one huge investment like Suh -- But I would rather a bunch of mid level guys like Spiller, Stevie Johnson, and Jordon Cameron. 

 

 

I understand what you mean but 

 

ok so let's review

 

Demaryious Thomas is tagged 

 

Dez Bryant is tagged

 

Cobb and Maclin are likely to sign long term deals

 

who on the market is going to be better than Percy Harvin? 

 

you guys talk about bargains and what a player is worth blah blah blah

 

Is Harvin perfect? No but there's no perfect players just waiting for the jets' phone call 

 

it's supply and demand. for good NFL players there's a huge demand and no supply. 

 

The jets can have 100 million dollars in cap space, that and a metrocard will get you a ride on the subway. 

 

and warfish, please don't talk about the future. I'm tired of watching this team get worse every year in the hope of some wonderful future (that's never going to arrive)

 

This is why I think the Jets should draft  Cooper or White.  These guys could be studs in the NFL and will come very cheap for the next several years.  Grab those corners and a LB in free agency while filling out the rest of their positions in the draft.  

 

Watkins got a 4 year 20 mil contract last year.

 

I would rather see Cooper/White and spend 10 million on Maxwell at Corner  instead of signing Percy at 10 million and adding another big CB contract. 

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we're actually past the point where cap space is valuable 

 

the Jets have too much cap space 

 

all this talk about cap space, who cares. Cap space never made a play or gained a single yard. 

 

I'm not a cap expert by any means but a cursory review of the newspapers leads me to believe they need to use the cap space, not save it. Extend Mo and Sheldon still leaves them multiple millions short to get to the floor.  

 

keeping Harvin uses cap space, or at least doesn't make the problem worse. 

 

I don't mind replacing this player with someone better, only problem is there's no one better than Harvin on the open market.

 

Warfish likes Decker cause he's gritty and cerebral meanwhile Harvin is a cancer and thug. but really, neither of these guys lived up to their reputations, cause they aren't getting quality QB play. 

 

the bottom line is any WR will be hamstrung by the QB situation. let's not pretend like Amari Cooper (slower) is going to gain more yards than Harvin cause he's a better person. Or that Geno will magically get better once Harvin is off the team. 

 

I want to see this team win games in 2015 not in some year TBD when the moon comes over the mountain. 

 

There's this idea that the team has to get worse so it can get better. Well, they've gotten pretty bad. How much worse can they get? At some point you have to start at least trying to win football games. If Harvin is worth 1 win, well that's 1 more sunday than we would have had

 

life is too short to be playing this "they'll be good in 2020" game with ourselves. It's all in your mind they are either good or they are bad. There's no future if the team has to keep firing key staff every 2-3 years.

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Decker is hurt plenty.  He was dinged almost the entire year in 2014.  He missed most of the Tebow playoffs after he got blasted by Harrison and the only reason he lasted until the 3rd round was because he missed the combine and workouts because he had a plate in his foot for a lis franc injury.

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Warfish the road to winning titles starts with winning games. Making this team worse, how does that make them more likely to win a title?  Long term success is a great slogan but at some point you have to win football games in the short term. 

 

I don't believe any rookie will be as good as Percy Harvin in 2015. Do you think Kevin White will be Odell Beckham Jr?

 

You talk about his 600 yard production why aren't you crying about Decker's production? a WR's production depends on the QB who feeds him. Or doesn't. 

 

as for not watching the Jets, don't worry dude, i'm getting there.

No, this is not true.

Winning titles starts with getting a QB. Title wins come after that, not the other way around.

Next, even if Harvin plays all year and our net win total is 2 more than with his replacement, neither those 2 wins nor any of the others on the season carry over to 2016.

Look, I'm sympathetic to keeping him until we have a replacement in hand, especially if we're breaking in a young QB, but doing so is no slam dunk by any stretch. Let's say we keep him, and particularly if Maccagnan foolishly locks him up for 3+ years. The immediate need for another WR is dramatically reduced and we take that friggin guard or another CB at #6, opting to draft a WR a round or two or four later, and end up with another Stephen Hill instead of a blue chip prospect who turns into a blue chip pro. And then, for good measure, Harvin misses 11 games this year.

So we absolutely can get worse at WR by keeping him, and it's not so far-fetched either. If we do keep him I don't want a new extended deal because I want them pouncing all over a WR at #6 (or with whatever their first pick is, should they trade down). Then if the #6 pick already looks like the goods over the summer we dump Harvin before final cutdowns and the net loss is just that downgrade of our 4th round pick (not ideal, but not the end of the world either).

Harvin is a lightning in a bottle player you bring in short term, not a building block player you think you'll hold onto at big money for the next 5 seasons.

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Personally, I'd rather get rid of Harvin and sign Cobb for a little less money. Cobb is a just as good of a returner as Harvin and an arguably better receiver. He also doesn't have the injury concerns that Harvin has.

He's asking for 9 million (most likely won't get that) a year which is already less than Harvin's contract now.

I want both. We need depth at WR. If last year isn't definitive obvious proof that depth at WR is critical I don't know what is.

If you guys think trotting out the Cumbys and Kerleys out there is setting up Mariota for success you got something else coming and that's another 4-12 season or worse.

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Decker is hurt plenty. He was dinged almost the entire year in 2014. He missed most of the Tebow playoffs after he got blasted by Harrison and the only reason he lasted until the 3rd round was because he missed the combine and workouts because he had a plate in his foot for a lis franc injury.

Our season ended in week 1 last year because Decker pulled a hammy. People want to have even less depth at WR? We need more not less.

In 2010 Cotchery in his prime was 3rd on our depth chart. That's the kind of depth you need at WR when you don't have a great qb.

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Decker is hurt plenty.  He was dinged almost the entire year in 2014.  He missed most of the Tebow playoffs after he got blasted by Harrison and the only reason he lasted until the 3rd round was because he missed the combine and workouts because he had a plate in his foot for a lis franc injury.

 

Decker almost has a 1000 yards with Geno feckin Smith throwing him the ball. He had 12 plays of 20+ yards plays, and 4 40+ yard plays, we get a Amari Copper. Kev White or DGB on the other side and Wham.

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/ericdecker/497284/careerstats

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