Please..please have Mariota drop to 6

[T0mShane]

See? Don't you feel great now?

I haven't felt great since I was 26. Once I deconstructed coitus, it was all over.

[T0mShane]

I actually thought that flick wasnt too bad. But when you put it the way you put it...I feel like I shouldnt like it.

This is my gift: ruining things that people like.

[HessStation]

Pac and I are true players for real.

[T0mShane]

Every good quarterback ever?

To the degree that Mariota will have to do it, though? Wilson was an excellent passer in college, as was Manning, and Brady, etc. I think Mariota has to be reinvented as a pro.

[CTM]

Interestingly, he threw for more yards (4,400 vs, 3,900), more TDs (42 vs. 25), less INTs (4 vs. 18) with a higher completion percentage (68 vs 65) than Winston this year. All with only 22 less attempts (445 vs 467).

 

gah.. i just said ignore the stats 

[RutgersJetFan]

To the degree that Mariota will have to do it, though? Wilson was an excellent passer in college, as was Manning, and Brady, etc. I think Mariota has to be reinvented as a pro.

 

Sure. A good chunk of Mariota's experience is with one-step quick hitters. I'm not sure why that's his fault or why you see anything from him to indicate that he can't be coached up, especially when he's shown more than enough times that he can do more than that.

[HessStation]

gah.. i just said ignore the stats 

 

That was to Tom. But if you're not interesting in stats or speed or athleticism, his intelligence is said to be off the charts, he has the size and arm strength.  The question of accuracy seems to be somewhat subjective but he can make all the throws. I think it comes down to more consistent mechanics, which can be worked on. He's his own player and it's certainly not fair, borderline absurd comparing him to every successful college QB who couldn't cut it in the NFL.  

[Smashmouth]

Mariota: 68.3; 4454; 42; 4 brain

Geno: 71.2; 4205; 42; 6 no brains

The thing with Mariota is that he's just not a great passer, and nobody ever comes into the NFL and becomes a more accurate passer. The running, the athleticism, the nice-guy attitude means less than zero if his arm is a liability on third and ten.

Fixed

 

Mariota is a very good passer ..I've seen him make all the throws not sure what exactly you think a great passer needs to be The question with all these college QB's is do they have the mental mindset to succeed in the NFL .. I think Mariota does Geno obviously does not and I think Winston is in that category as well

[RutgersJetFan]

That was to Tom. But if you're not interesting in stats or speed or athleticism, his intelligence is said to be off the charts, he has the size and arm strength.  The question of accuracy seems to be somewhat subjective but he can make all the throws. I think it comes down to more consistent mechanics, which can be worked on. He's his own player and it's certainly not fair, borderline absurd comparing him to every successful college QB who couldn't cut it in the NFL.  

 

I think it can be worked on successfully for any team that's patient enough to put in the time. Whomever drafts him needs to go in with the mentality that he is unconditionally sitting his first year. No bullsh*t "put the kid in and see what he has" nonsense. Clipboard and coaching no matter what.

[CTM]

That was to Tom. But if you're not interesting in stats or speed or athleticism, his intelligence is said to be off the charts, he has the size and arm strength.  The question of accuracy seems to be somewhat subjective but he can make all the throws. I think it comes down to more consistent mechanics, which can be worked on. He's his own player and it's certainly not fair, borderline absurd comparing him to every successful college QB who couldn't cut it in the NFL.  

 

don't want at 6, would be for bottom of rd1, early rd2 similiar to geno. 

[T0mShane]

Sure. A good chunk of Mariota's experience is with one-step quick hitters. I'm not sure why that's his fault or why you see anything from him to indicate that he can't be coached up, especially when he's shown more than enough times that he can do more than that.

I'm hung up on the "more than enough times" thing. I was listening to both Greg Cosell and Waldman on Mariota, and as much as they like the tools, they both conclude that there's not a ton of evidence on tape right now to convince anyone that he can be a particularly efficient passer in a traditional NFL offense. There's a huuuuuuuuge leap of faith here that supposes he can adapt, and he's going to be doing it with what is generally described as an adequate arm. When you take all of that and combine it with the Jets history with young QBs, I'm extremely willing to pass on him. Let Kelly have him and see if they can turn the league into the Pac-12.

[T0mShane]

I think it can be worked on successfully for any team that's patient enough to put in the time. Whomever drafts him needs to go in with the mentality that he is unconditionally sitting his first year. No bullsh*t "put the kid in and see what he has" nonsense. Clipboard and coaching no matter what.

The only place he'd get that pass is in Denver, which would actually be a neat trick by Elway.

[RutgersJetFan]

I'm hung up on the "more than enough times" thing. I was listening to both Greg Cosell and Waldman on Mariota, and as much as they like the tools, they both conclude that there's not a ton of evidence on tape right now to convince anyone that he can be a particularly efficient passer in a traditional NFL offense. There's a huuuuuuuuge leap of faith here that he can adapt, and he's going to be doing it with what is generally described as an adequate arm. When you take all of that and combine it with the Jets history with young QBs, I'm extremely willing to pass on him. Let Kelly have him and see if they can turn the league into the Pac-12.

 

More than enough times. As in, the amount of times you would need to see him invalidate biases or doubts. He's done it more than the necessary amount of times you would need to see him do that.

[T0mShane]

Fixed

Mariota is a very good passer ..I've seen him make all the throws not sure what exactly you think a great passer needs to be The question with all these college QB's is do they have the mental mindset to succeed in the NFL .. I think Mariota does Geno obviously does not and I think Winston is in that category as well

He is not a great passer at this moment.

[T0mShane]

More than enough times. As in, the amount of times you would need to see him invalidate biases or doubts. He's done it more than the necessary amount of times you would need to see him do that.

I cling to my biases and doubts like they're oxygen and bacon.

[HessStation]

He is not a great passer at this moment.

I think better said, although an accomplished passer in college, there's a question of how good he can be throwing into smaller NFL windows. He seems to have the arm strength and skills necessary to succeed but will it translate? Based on his character and make up I'm willing to bet on it over time, given he goes to the right team who's willing to develop him properly. 

[RutgersJetFan]

He is not a great passer at this moment.

 

Of course he isn't. What exactly is it that you're expecting to find at 6, Thomas?

[T0mShane]

Of course he isn't. What exactly is it that you're expecting to find at 6, Thomas?

I'm taking Amari Cooper there, personally. Then Fowler. Then Beasley. Then White. Then whatevs.

If I'm ever drafting a QB that high, I'm not gambling to that extent. The dude has to be part Elway, part Winston Churchill, or else I'll revisit the position in the third round.

[T0mShane]

I think better said, although an accomplished passer in college, there's a question of how good he can be throwing into smaller NFL windows. He seems to have the arm strength and skills necessary to succeed but will it translate? Based on his character and make up I'm willing to bet on it over time, given he goes to the right team who's willing to develop him properly.

Somebody might hit with him if they sit on him or they let him run a variation of Oregon's offense right away. I don't see either happening here.

[RutgersJetFan]

I'm taking Amari Cooper there, personally. Then Fowler. Then Beasley. Then White. Then whatevs.

If I'm ever drafting a QB that high, I'm not gambling to that extent. The dude has to be part Elway, part Winston Churchill, or else I'll revisit the position in the third round.

 

You are not finding that at 6. Ever. If you're drafting a QB after 2 or 3 you're getting issues one way or the other. Either they're mechanical or personal or Sanchez or whatever. But this what you get at quarterback when you're not drafting higher. You can thank JiF, Pac, Rex, and the rest of the Jejune Brigade for that one.

[T0mShane]

You are not finding that at 6. Ever. If you're drafting a QB after 2 or 3 you're getting issues one way or the other. Either they're mechanical or personal or Sanchez or whatever. But this what you get at quarterback when you're not drafting higher. You can thank JiF, Pac, Rex, and the rest of the Jejune Brigade for that one.

LOLOL

So good.

[HessStation]

Somebody might hit with him if they sit on him or they let him run a variation of Oregon's offense right away. I don't see either happening here.

Fwiw, Gaily's the guy who made Kordell Stewart marginally successful in the NFL for a year. 

[Smashmouth]

Somebody might hit with him if they sit on him or they let him run a variation of Oregon's offense right away. I don't see either happening here.

With Gaily It can very well happen here .... I think if Mariota is there at 6 we either take him or trade with the Eagles for Foles and a few more picks. Of course if the Eagles are serious about going after Mariota they won't gamble on whether or not we take him they will trade up before us to secure the pick.

 

I think the kid is going to be a star in this league so if he is there at 6 I say we jump on it.

[slats]

Lady friend and I watched movies yesterday. I picked The Way Way Back because I like Sam Rockwell. The movie was one of those bullsh*t male fantasies wherein an awkward teen is inexplicably embraced by a super-cool surrogate dad figure, but with the added bonus of having that awkward teen simultaneously (also inexplicably) pursued by a hot chick. Both are hackneyed, boring film cliches that have been around forever. Her movie selection was Bridget Jones Diary, wherein a pudgy Renee Zellweger is simultaneously, inexplicably pursued by two handsome suitors: one a cad, the other a really nice guy. This is also a time-honored bullsh*t film cliche. Lady friend subsequently informed me that we will no longer have "movie days" together.

 

If you can't just sit down for an hour and a half and enjoy Sam Rockwell doing his thing without doing your whole bitchy critique thing, I'm thinking you're further gone than I originally suspected. Also have to assume you found the lady friend in some sort of masochist catalog. 

[drdetroit]

Vince Young passing stats last 2 years at Texas: 4900 yards 38 tds and 21 int

If your a great athlete and play in a system you are going to put up big numbers in college.

[HessStation]

Vince Young passing stats last 2 years at Texas: 4900 yards 38 tds and 21 int

If your a great athlete and play in a system you are going to put up big numbers in college.

Are those his numbers for a combined 2 years? If so not as impressive as I would have guessed, actually. None the less I'm pretty sure you're taking a side note/line item/bullet point/one piece to the overall discussion and trying to make it the narrative (pukes a little for using the word, narrative).

If you're trying to say college stats mean nothing, you're wrong. They just don't mean everything.

[drdetroit]

Are those his numbers for a combined 2 years? If so not as impressive as I would have guessed, actually. None the less I'm pretty sure you're taking a side note/line item/bullet point/one piece to the overall discussion and trying to make it the narrative (pukes a little for using the word, narrative).

If you're trying to say college stats mean nothing, you're wrong. They just don't mean everything.

I just think it's silly that the people who want us to pass on Cooper or Ray use Mariotas stats to act like he had Dan Marino passing efficiency a la the mid 80's. Whether you like him or not Mariota is a system qb and he most likely won't be in that system in the nfl.

[T0mShane]

If you can't just sit down for an hour and a half and enjoy Sam Rockwell doing his thing without doing your whole bitchy critique thing, I'm thinking you're further gone than I originally suspected. Also have to assume you found the lady friend in some sort of masochist catalog.

I don't have a "bitchy critique thing." When something is blatantly, obviously trash, I discuss why that thing is trash, which often leads to lively debate. It only gets awkward when the respondent is deluded or in abject denial of those trash elements.

[T0mShane]

With Gaily It can very well happen here .... I think if Mariota is there at 6 we either take him or trade with the Eagles for Foles and a few more picks. Of course if the Eagles are serious about going after Mariota they won't gamble on whether or not we take him they will trade up before us to secure the pick.

I think the kid is going to be a star in this league so if he is there at 6 I say we jump on it.

I disagree, Smash. I think his deficiencies in throwing the ball will be too much to overcome, and some team will have a Hawaiian Jake Locker situation in four years.

[T0mShane]

I don't have a "bitchy critique thing." When something is blatantly, obviously trash, I discuss why that thing is trash, which often leads to lively debate. It only gets awkward when the respondent is deluded or in abject denial of those trash elements.

Cough

[HessStation]

I just think it's silly that the people who want us to pass on Cooper or Ray use Mariotas stats to act like he had Dan Marino passing efficiency a la the mid 80's. Whether you like him or not Mariota is a system qb and he most likely won't be in that system in the nfl.

I will say, I thought is was interesting Vince Young threw so many interceptions in that offense. Interestingly, in his stats, that showed as a pretty big red flag. But also, to be fair, I checked and the 28 INTs were in three years, not two. I would look at Young's passing yards to really make a point though.... Extremely pedestrian his first two years and then only a little over 3k during his Heisman year. It's was really his combined running yards and undefeated season that catapulted him. There is, in fact, a lot of question marks you could have pulled from his stats is the point though.

Not trying to make anyone a Mariota fan. He's not a slam dunk and you can either believe his game will translate or it won't. But it's hard to not be impressed with his college performance as, at least, a piece of the overall pie. Add the strong character, leadership, intelligence traits. Strong arm, great size, great speed, great explosion. Supposed to be a tireless, humble worker. Other than holding the system he was in, thrived in, against him, there's not too much to knock. Guys like TOm are really going after his arm but it's really not a question of strength but consistency. But again, to be fair, a lot of this board, people like TOm, probably have this fascination with a guy like Connor Cook....who also has the same accuracy, inconsistency issues as Mariota. Winston's are even worse, especially during the first three quarters. But again, due to style of offense, these guys are getting more of a pass. Although I get it, they're also asked to make tougher throws than Mariota on a regular basis. So we'll see I guess.

[slats]

I don't have a "bitchy critique thing." When something is blatantly, obviously trash, I discuss why that thing is trash, which often leads to lively debate. It only gets awkward when the respondent is deluded or in abject denial of those trash elements.

 

I'm sure it'd've been different if you'd had as cool a surrogate father figure as Sam Rockwell. Maybe then you'd allow yourself to enjoy life. 

[T0mShane]

I'm sure it'd've been different if you'd had as cool a surrogate father figure as Sam Rockwell. Maybe then you'd allow yourself to enjoy life.

There's still time. Take me to the circus this weekend and teach me about girls?

[faba]

Back on track- Mariota's college career was never in a NFL type offense so that is the worry. He at least would need to sit and learn- he is bright by all accounts- 

[CTM]

I'm hung up on the "more than enough times" thing. I was listening to both Greg Cosell and Waldman on Mariota, and as much as they like the tools, they both conclude that there's not a ton of evidence on tape right now to convince anyone that he can be a particularly efficient passer in a traditional NFL offense. There's a huuuuuuuuge leap of faith here that supposes he can adapt, and he's going to be doing it with what is generally described as an adequate arm. When you take all of that and combine it with the Jets history with young QBs, I'm extremely willing to pass on him. Let Kelly have him and see if they can turn the league into the Pac-12.

 

Agree with this completely, too risky for the Jets atm, and too much pressure when taking a QB that high, you get forced to start him to soon and hold on to him too long (sanchez)