If Jets trade 6 pick to Eagles they have to get back their QB.

[Tony The Wiz]

I would only trade 6 pick only if Foles is included. He is a true QB and there is nothing to be cheerful in free agency. Mallet will sign with Houston as that is what they stated as a priority so there goes he. Matt Moore interests me in Miami but he has not played much in the last two years. Locker I would bring in as 2nd QB as he has shown improvement but he is an injury machine. Ponder and Hoyer had their few moments but they are back up material so I need Foles in this trade. I can't go in this season with Geno since he will never get better in this city. I be honest with you, that I think Geno will be better off signing with the CFL where he could improve his skills like Warren Moon did.

[Larz]

why not just take mariota if foles' coach prefers mariota to foles ?

[Tony The Wiz]

why not just take mariota if foles' coach prefers mariota to foles ?

I have no problem with that but I am saying if Mariota is available at 6 that either he or Foles need to be he NY jets starting QB. I have been listening to some sports writers and TV announcers saying that we could go into next year with Geno as QB and take the Eagle package for only draft picks. Anyone thinking Geno will be successful in NY is just imagining. It will never happen.

[Warfish]

 

 

If Jets trade 6 pick to Eagles they have to get back their QB.

 

No, they don't.

 

They don't "have" to do anything.

 

You may want them to, but they don't "have to" in any way at all.

 

Dozens of other players they can get that they (as opposed to you) may prefer.

 

For every fan who wants Foles, they'll be 10 fans who want nothing to do with Foles.

 

The same can be said for almost every available QB.

 

Hence, the Jets will get who they want (first) and who they can aquire (second).

 

For example, maybe they like some OTHER guy.  They could trade the pick, get two #1's and a #2 back, and they could draft some guy in the 2nd round they really love.  Who knows.

 

Best at this point in the new regime to let them decide what we "have to" do.  We, as fans, will be far less dissapointed that way when the team, for some crazy reason, doesn;t do exactly as we want.

 

LIke when they resign Harvin.....meh.

[Sperm Edwards]

I would only trade 6 pick only if Foles is included. He is a true QB and there is nothing to be cheerful in free agency. Mallet will sign with Houston as that is what they stated as a priority so there goes he. Matt Moore interests me in Miami but he has not played much in the last two years. Locker I would bring in as 2nd QB as he has shown improvement but he is an injury machine. Ponder and Hoyer had their few moments but they are back up material so I need Foles in this trade. I can't go in this season with Geno since he will never get better in this city. I be honest with you, that I think Geno will be better off signing with the CFL where he could improve his skills like Warren Moon did.

 

Is there any indication this trade would be possible or even proposed in the absence of including Foles? 

 

I agree with you that he'd have to be included, but mostly because I don't think the Eagles would try to trade up this far without dumping a QB, who has trade value, and who they don't want/need anymore.

[Patriot Killa]

why not just take mariota if foles' coach prefers mariota to foles ?

He prefers Mariota because that's been his guy since college, he knows the system. Mariota isn't even proven.. Foles has thrown 7 touchdowns in a game.

[Mogglez]

why not just take mariota if foles' coach prefers mariota to foles ?

Well the answer to that isn't so simple. Kelly wants to implement his system to it's fullest. In order to do that, he can't have an absolute statue at QB like Foles. I don't think Kelly think Foles is a bad QB, I just think he knows that with a guy like him, he will never be able to get the most out of his system. Mariota to Philly is the only scenario where the kid can go and succeed right away. Us taking him is a farrrrr bigger risk.

[Patriot Killa]

Well the answer to that isn't so simple. Kelly wants to implement his system to it's fullest. In order to do that, he can't have an absolute statue at QB like Foles. I don't think Kelly think Foles is a bad QB, I just think he knows that with a guy like him, he will never be able to get the most out of his system. Mariota to Philly is the only scenario where the kid can go and succeed right away. Us taking him is a farrrrr bigger risk.

Exactly. Foles would be the better option for us and Mariota would be the better option for them.

[#27TheDominator]

You can be pretty sure that Foles is not "their QB"  If they see him as a quality stop gap or serviceable in the O they plan to run, fine. He's not going to be their QB or the "franchise" QB as everybody likes to throw around.

[afosomf]

Foles will be part of trade and Iggles will prob keep butt fumble as a backup

[Tony The Wiz]

Foles will be part of trade and Iggles will prob keep butt fumble as a backup

Mr. turnover will be heading west. I see him going to Oakland to backup their rookie.

[jack48]

Of course, if we sign Fitz, then what?  The deal is not a certainty.  Don't the Jets have to try to bring in a QB before the draft?

[Sperm Edwards]

Foles will be part of trade and Iggles will prob keep butt fumble as a backup

While I think BF is thankful that Kelly increased his value (at least compared to what it was a year earlier), so he may want to stick around if he thinks it will help improve his game even more. But even he has to know in that case Kelly will be looking for any excuse to give Sanchez the quick hook (if he allows him to start the season to ease Mariota in).

He might be better off if Mariota starts from game 1. He's a lot lighter on his feet than Foles, for sure, but he's not going to elude pro defenders as effortlessly as he did at Oregon. BF could be back behind center before October if their OL starts out anything like it did in '14.

[SenorGato]

I forgot that this thing isn't until the very end of April. Boooooo.

[RSJ]

I think Geno fits this OC very well. I also think Geno may be the most talented passer Chan has had outside Aikman. Foles in a trade would be nice - but not necessary. Assuming the Jets get Eagles first next year as well, they should be able to trade up if needed. Next year seems to be a better QB class.

[Ghost]

why not just take mariota if foles' coach prefers mariota to foles ?

I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this. Just because Chip Kelly thinks Mariota is a franchise QB, all the other 31 teams have to think that too? Maybe the Jets do not like Mariota, which is a possibility.

Personally, I am not a fan of the guy.

[Jetsmanjb]

I would do the trade for this year's 1st and maybe next year's 2nd + 3rd... don't really want foles that badly

[OuttaSightPF]

No, they don't.

 

They don't "have" to do anything.

 

You may want them to, but they don't "have to" in any way at all.

 

Dozens of other players they can get that they (as opposed to you) may prefer.

 

For every fan who wants Foles, they'll be 10 fans who want nothing to do with Foles.

 

The same can be said for almost every available QB.

 

Hence, the Jets will get who they want (first) and who they can aquire (second).

 

For example, maybe they like some OTHER guy.  They could trade the pick, get two #1's and a #2 back, and they could draft some guy in the 2nd round they really love.  Who knows.

 

Best at this point in the new regime to let them decide what we "have to" do.  We, as fans, will be far less dissapointed that way when the team, for some crazy reason, doesn;t do exactly as we want.

 

LIke when they resign Harvin.....meh.

isn't it kind of the point of a sports message board to talk about different scenarios and variables regarding our favorite team? Obviously they will do whatever the f u c k they want. Some people like discussing these things. If you don't, try gardening as a hobby.  

[OuttaSightPF]

I would do the trade for this year's 1st and maybe next year's 2nd + 3rd... don't really want foles that badly

wow, you'd swap picks this year and move down 14 spots in the draft just to pick up their next years 2nd and 3rd??? or am I not understanding that right?

[OuttaSightPF]

I think Geno fits this OC very well. I also think Geno may be the most talented passer Chan has had outside Aikman. Foles in a trade would be nice - but not necessary. Assuming the Jets get Eagles first next year as well, they should be able to trade up if needed. Next year seems to be a better QB class.

I have not totally given up on Geno, But he's had over 30 games to audition. I want to see him with Chan but if he's our top option going into camp then we wasted our time changing our front office and coaches. With Rex we spent over 100 games (including the post season) essentially evaluating Sanchez and Smith. 2 guys. Both couldn't get it done. As a franchise we need to move faster and bring in as much competition at that position as possible until we find our guy. Smith and Sanchez had no one to push them or make them compete. Brunell and Vick were a joke, and Simms.... well who knows? He never plays.

[Sperm Edwards]

wow, you'd swap picks this year and move down 14 spots in the draft just to pick up their next years 2nd and 3rd??? or am I not understanding that right?

 

Agree. Unless one values Foles like a 1st rounder himself. Don't discount, since it's often a major factor in player for pick trades, that Foles has no contract past 2015 and will have unknown demands, particularly if/when valued as a 1st. Will he demand/command $12M per? Will it be $15-18M per? The reason people value these high picks isn't just the potential to get a player as good as they're trading away; it's that this player is (in today's NFL) upwards of 8 figures per year less on their cap. This allows the player-trading team to sign another premiere player on top of the draft pick.

 

The Eagles are trading away McCoy for Alonso not just for Alonso. They're trading him for the cap flexibility that will allow them to make a far better push to retain Jeremy Maclin, who they otherwise will surely lose to free agency.

 

Foles with 3 years left under a 2nd round rookie-paying contract probably does have the value of a 1st round pick (where in round 1 would vary depending on who you're asking). But with only 1 year left, where the acquiring team is almost assuredly extending for MAJOR dollars upon arriving, I take for granted his trade value is lower because of it. 

 

Just like John Abraham who, if not for his enormous salary command and demand, was otherwise more innately valuable than the then-unknown #29 pick in the country, 6 years and multiple pro bowls after getting taken #13. But when we took him at #13 he didn't come with a $50M contract that would have meant the release (or non-signing) of another star player or multiple others on top of not getting back the late #1 pick we ultimately used for Mangold (and who we kept for 5 years under his <$10M total $ rookie contract).

 

A 2nd is probably appropriate value as a midpoint, and from there Maccagnan or another team's GM can decide if Foles and his large, upcoming contract are worth more than that or less than that. Keep in mind whoever picks him up has to bet on him in advance, that he'll perform closer to 2013 Foles than 2014 Foles. Otherwise said GM risks having to tag him at nearly $20M for year 2, or lose him to free agency after year 1, and no one wants to pass on 2nd round draft value for that mess.

 

I have not totally given up on Geno, But he's had over 30 games to audition. I want to see him with Chan but if he's our top option going into camp then we wasted our time changing our front office and coaches. With Rex we spent over 100 games (including the post season) essentially evaluating Sanchez and Smith. 2 guys. Both couldn't get it done. As a franchise we need to move faster and bring in as much competition at that position as possible until we find our guy. Smith and Sanchez had no one to push them or make them compete. Brunell and Vick were a joke, and Simms.... well who knows? He never plays.

 

Well put. Vick might not have been a joke level of competition when we picked him up, but when there was no competition until Smith and the whole team saw him granted a long enough leash to hang the team's season with, then Vick's presence as the #2 QB was ultimately meaningless. Also because, when Smith was pulled to mop up against San Diego, Vick didn't do noticeably better. Simms is not a starting NFL QB, so he doesn't count. But for the Jets having no QBs of late, he might not have even be a backup NFL QB. The only reason anyone has reason to believe he would succeed as starter is because they haven't personally seen him fail as starter yet. Oh, and he has a strong arm. Not truly compelling reasons. If he was lighting it up even in practice the coaches would have jumped all over the opportunity to save their jobs.

 

I don't totally believe that an unsuccessful QB would be really good if only he was scared of losing his job. He was unready in year 1 and (save some good moments) on balance he was crap again in year 2. Sure he might suddenly get better with another year experience under his belt, if he receives superior coaching, and in a system easier for him to succeed in. But yeah, he's had a long enough audition to give someone else a try. If the light goes on and Geno wins an actual competition, great for us. But we can't hand him another season and say, "Well look, he did beat out Matt Simms!" as justification.

[Jetster]

I've been watching some of our games on the NFL network from last year & Geno got a lot better at the end of the season when Decker got healthier.

He made some nice throws on the run, he escaped a couple of jailbreaks where our Oline failed miserably.

I'm not saying put all of our eggs in the Geno basket but he really only played a handful of games with a REAL NFL caliber players healthy.

Decker was hurt most of the season, I thought Kerley had a bad year he never seemed open. Amaro was a rookie TE finding his way in the NFL, Cumberland was a TURNSTILE in the blocking dept, CJ looked like he was running in lead shoes for most of the year.

Don't forget the games that were close & Folk was missing long FGs for wins or ties with his injury.

People who watch film for a living see enough from Geno to say you can't give up on him that quickly. I take his 1st year & throw it in the garbage, thrust into service after Sanchez got hurt his head was spinning.

Last year he had all new players around him, an unsettled Oline with all the changes at left guard & Colon constantly putting him in 2nd & 15.

I'd be very happy to get Foles but I still think Geno can be an NFL QB.

[SAR I]

I think Geno fits this OC very well. I also think Geno may be the most talented passer Chan has had outside Aikman.

Geno Smith is the black Troy Aikman.

Now I've heard everything. If Jet fans would learn to get rid of the garbage after only two years without offering the third, we to be a much better franchise today.

SAR I

[RSJ]

Geno Smith is the black Troy Aikman.

Now I've heard everything. If Jet fans would learn to get rid of the garbage after only two years without offering the third, we to be a much better franchise today.

SAR I

 

 

Yeah, so, that's not what I said.

 

 

RSJ

[Morrissey]

The return can't be any worse than:

 

Nick Foles

2015 1st rounder (20th overall)
2015 2nd rounder

2016 1st rounder

[Scott Dierking]

Mariota's future value> Fole's future value

[Dunnie]

Foles

2015 1st

2015 2nd

2016 1st

just saw I matched the guy above ... this works

[SAR I]

Yeah, so, that's not what I said.

 

RSJ

The point is that in today's NFL, getting 2 full seasons as a starting quarterback is enough of a resume to know what a guy is or isn't going to be.

Geno Smith is an "F". We need to move on.

SAR I

[RSJ]

The point is that in today's NFL, getting 2 full seasons as a starting quarterback is enough of a resume to know what a guy is or isn't going to be.

Geno Smith is an "F". We need to move on.

SAR I

 

At this point in Aaron Rodgers career, he was yet to take a snap. It takes time to adjust, especially coming from a spread.

[SAR I]

At this point in Aaron Rodgers career, he was yet to take a snap. It takes time to adjust, especially coming from a spread.

Like I said, 2 full seasons as a starter is enough to judge.

The Jets just keep giving 3 year passes to players, coaches, if after 32 games we can't see that Geno has what it takes, wasting another 16 isn't going to matter. I mean, geez, we ran a guy out of town who won four playoff games and then had two bad seasons, for what reason on earth would we give Geno a bigger benefit of the doubt?

If he's under center Week 1, I'll be out on a beach in Maine doing something productive on Labor Day weekend instead of at Metlife Stadium.

SAR I

[RSJ]

Like I said, 2 full seasons as a starter is enough to judge.

The Jets just keep giving 3 year passes to players, coaches, if after 32 games we can't see that Geno has what it takes, wasting another 16 isn't going to matter. I mean, geez, we ran a guy out of town who won four playoff games and then had two bad seasons, for what reason on earth would we give Geno a bigger benefit of the doubt?

If he's under center Week 1, I'll be out on a beach in Maine doing something productive on Labor Day weekend instead of at Metlife Stadium.

SAR I

 

Make sure you have a TV out there in Maine. Wouldnt want you to miss out on the Geno to B Marsh TD connection.

[SAR I]

Make sure you have a TV out there in Maine. Wouldnt want you to miss out on the Geno to B Marsh TD connection.

LOL. I'm all-in on Foles or Mariotta at this point, just can't watch Geno any more.

SAR I

[LionelRichie]

Foles

2015 1st

2015 2nd

2016 1st

just saw I matched the guy above ... this works

 

Mariota is the 2015 version of manziel.   Other than Philly which teams really covet Mariota?    

 

Let's assume he makes it to #6.  Why would the eagles give up so much to trade with the Jets?   What happens if tell the Jets to go ahead and draft Mariota?    without another team very interested in Mariota there is no reason to move all the way up to 6.  

 

Cleveland is a wildcard but do they really go QB again in Rd 1?  I could St Louis taking him @ 10 - maybe.   KC @ #16 is a possibility.   But other than that who even wants the guy?  

 

Chip Kelly may be able to take MM at #20 or he may have to move up a couple of spots to prevent another team from coming back into rd 2.   Time will tell but it doesn't seem like the market for Mariota will demand going all the way to #6 unless the Jets can convince the world that someone else wants him that badly.  

[Latinlawyer]

The return can't be any worse than:

 

Nick Foles

2015 1st rounder (20th overall)

2015 2nd rounder

2016 1st rounder

 

Lol...Ok so you value Foles as a 2015 3rd/4th rounder?

 

I would do Foles, 2015 1st Rounder and 2015 2nd Rounder. 

 

LL

[Tony The Wiz]

I've been watching some of our games on the NFL network from last year & Geno got a lot better at the end of the season when Decker got healthier.

He made some nice throws on the run, he escaped a couple of jailbreaks where our Oline failed miserably.

I'm not saying put all of our eggs in the Geno basket but he really only played a handful of games with a REAL NFL caliber players healthy.

Decker was hurt most of the season, I thought Kerley had a bad year he never seemed open. Amaro was a rookie TE finding his way in the NFL, Cumberland was a TURNSTILE in the blocking dept, CJ looked like he was running in lead shoes for most of the year.

Don't forget the games that were close & Folk was missing long FGs for wins or ties with his injury.

People who watch film for a living see enough from Geno to say you can't give up on him that quickly. I take his 1st year & throw it in the garbage, thrust into service after Sanchez got hurt his head was spinning.

Last year he had all new players around him, an unsettled Oline with all the changes at left guard & Colon constantly putting him in 2nd & 15.

I'd be very happy to get Foles but I still think Geno can be an NFL QB.

Geno needs to go to Canada. Less pressure and bigger field.