Beerfish Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 I like Gato have liked the overall make up of Dupree more than the others but he has been rated lower up until recently. I think he steps up into the top tier now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I am sticking with Ray until after Thursday. If he can run, he's my choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Vic Beasley - Clemson: 6'3" 246 32 1/2" arm length 4.53 40 yard dash 1.66 10 yard 35 reps bench press 41" Vertical 10'10" Broad Sacks last three years: 12, 13, 8 Dante Fowler - Florida: 6'2 1/2" 261 33 3/4" arm length 4.6 40 yard dash 1.60 10 yard 19 reps bench press 32.5" Vertical 9'4" Broad Sacks last three years: 8.5,3.5, 2.5 Randy Gregory - Nebraska: 6'4 1/2" 235 34" arm length 4.64 40 yard dash 1.61 10 yard 24 reps bench press 36.5" Vertical 10'5" Broad Sacks last three years: 7, 10.5, N/A Shane Ray - Missouri: 6'2 1/2" 245 33 1/8" arm length N/A 40 yard dash N/A 10 yard 21 reps bench press N/A Vertical N/A Broad Sacks last three years: 14.5, 4.5, 0 Alvin 'Bud' Dupree - Kentucky 6'4" 269 32 5/8" arm length 4.56 40 yard dash 1.66 10 yard N/A reps bench press 42" Vertical 11'6" Broad Sacks last three years: 7.5,7.0, 6.5 I find it ridiculous that Hau'oli Kikaha is never part of these conversations. Its purely based on media popularity because every time I see comparisons like this its always the same 5 guys, yet none of them has put up numbers like Kikaha. Hau'oli Kikaha (washington) 6'2 253 32 1/2 arm length No on field drills at the combine (Illness. Pro Day is April 2nd) Sacks last three years 19, 13, N/A Kikaha had two ACL tears early in his college career but has played in all but 1 game the last two years and has racked up 32 sacks in his last 26 games and had 14 consecutive games where he registered a sack. That streak ended this past Nov. 15th against Arizona, after that game he went on a 3 game sack streak to end his college career. This guy is arguably the best pass rusher in all of college, yet I never hear his name. Anytime we're talking pass rushers, Hau'oli Kikaha should be part of the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 6'2" Height 32 1/2" Arm Length 253LBS. Weight 9 5/8" Hands Analysis Strengths Relentless. Bends the edge hard. Plays with his hand on the ground and stands up. Scheme versatile. Best fit is in 3-4. Intelligent player. Saw a streak of 14 consecutive games with a sack broken at Arizona in 2014. Excellent with his hands, possessing a variety of techniques. Was a judo champion when he was younger and a high school wrestler, so he understands hand placement and leverage. Good change of direction. Maintains low center of gravity on his rush without losing his wheels. Ability to recover and get back into a play. Weaknesses Can get swallowed up in the run game at defensive end. Has had knee issues in prior seasons. Perceived as a one-trick pony (pass-rush specialist). Upfield specialist and doesn't set the edge consistently. Needs work on playing consistently in space. Gets overly aggressive at times. Has had two ACL injuries and medicals will need to be scrutinized. NFL Comparison Rob Ninkovich Bottom Line Kikaha is the most accomplished pure pass rusher in this draft class. Relies on a relentless motor off the edge more than athleticism. He has an elite determination to get to the quarterback. While he seems to specialize in just rushing the passer, Kikaha has the power, hands and frame to improve against the run. It might take some work to get fully comfortable as a stand-up 3-4 OLB, but Kikaha is a very safe draft prospect as long as his medicals check out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 A few yrs back, I wanted the Jets to draft a college DE out of Georgia. I saw the kid as an absolute beast of a Pass rushing OLBer but Jet fans told me he was too stiff, and would never be able to make the adjustments. Today I see the same player in Shane Ray, not as big, but meaner and with a 1st step off the ball that I have not seen in forever. Last season, Justin Houston led the league in sacks playing as an OLBer in a 34 defense. I could careless what he does in coverage as long as Mr Ray puts Brady, Cassell and Tannehill on the ground a lot. Dupree's the most Houston dude in this draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Dupree's the most Houston dude in this draft. I have spent the day watching tape of Bud Dupree, Shane ray and Vic Beasley, and I can assure you none of these guys play at the same spped as Shane Ray. This kid Ray plays like his hair is on fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I have spent the day watching tape of Bud Dupree, Shane ray and Vic Beasley, and I can assure you none of these guys play at the same spped as Shane Ray. This kid Ray plays like his hair is on fire. And that's why he's been ranked at the top since day 1.... i spend a whole saturday watching as much as i could find, and none of them look like they're even in the same LEAGUE as Ray when it comes to being a disruptive nightmare. The guy simply will not stop coming at you. Ever. That said, homework needs to be done about what and where he fits in the NFL... thankfully the Jets scheduled a work with Ray. They'll figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I have spent the day watching tape of Bud Dupree, Shane ray and Vic Beasley, and I can assure you none of these guys play at the same spped as Shane Ray. This kid Ray plays like his hair is on fire. Ray has the best first step and is quickest off the snap. He can bull rush and has a low center of gravity, swim move etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 After looking at a few more highlights: I liked that Ray got pressure up the middle as often as purely coming from the outside, that is a plus for me. Dupree is the best tackler of the bunch, seemed to wrap up. Beasley is dynamite coming from the outside but didn't see as much in the way of him coming up the middle. Fowler, good all around player, both him and Dupree seem to have a complete game as far as being stout at the point of attack, not as good pure pass rushers as others. Out of this group I do not like Gregory. He tackles way to high and half of the sacks the Qb was doing the Manning brother lay down maneuver. He'll never get away with that tadckling technique in the NFL, he also looked pretty thin. Super fast no doubt about it but I would stay away from him. Kikaha was fast, good effort and a good finisher but he goes around blockers and dances away from, them. I didn't see him take n a blocker that often in the highlights. He won;t be able to just sidestep or run around guys in the NFL. In short the guys I like the best are Fowler and Dupree. I would have no problem with Ray, Beasley a bit further behind and a big no to Gregory and Kikaha (unless we are talking about later in the draft.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Someone we're not talking about enough, is this guy: TFY Draft Insider's Tony Pauline noted Kentucky DE Za'Darius Smith was the "big winner at Kentucky's pro day." The 6-foot-4 5/8, 274-pounder (11 percent body fat) clocked a 4.69 second 40, a big improvement over his combine time. "He was super impressive in both linebacker and defensive line drills, looking smooth and athletic," noted Pauline. The San Diego Chargers worked Smith out last week, and the prospect has an upcoming workout scheduled with the Carolina Panthers. Mar 15 - 8:23 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 Someone we're not talking about enough, is this guy: I remember him being credited for good work at I think the Senior bowl. Still a 2nd tier guy if we are grouping these type of guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradis Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 I remember him being credited for good work at I think the Senior bowl. Still a 2nd tier guy if we are grouping these type of guys. Ya he'd be someone we could look at in the 3rd... But the potential is there. He looked great between senior bowl and shrine game. IMO the gap between him and those teir 1 guys is smaller than say a WR we'd be looking at in the 3rd Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Waiting to see what ray does at his pro day. But right now it's hard to say no to Dupree, that's the prototypical 3-4 edge rusher. And for those who think athleticism is overrated just look at the bust that is Jarvis jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 1- Fowler- some of those combine numbers do worry me though. 2- Beasley 3- Dupree 4- Gregory 5- Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I don't get the Shane Ray love; he's too stiff for my taste. His style of play reminds me of IK, and while effective, doesn't warrant a top ten pick. I see him going mid-to-late 20's and having a MINIMAL first year impact. Dupree in the other hand is a beast; he's a three down starter. He's just not that quick. He has power that comes from his tree trunk of a rump, which enables a stout POA and a healthy bull rush. But he's exactly what we already have in our DL in terms of potential skill set. He'll be good in this league; he just wouldn't help our team out (in terms of playing time). Now, Vic Beasley, is the gem of this class. His outside speed rush (with his ability to bend the corner) is EXACTLY what we need. Our pass rushers generate forward pressure on the QB and 'contain' extremely well. What our roster has needed is the outside pass rusher that forces the QB to step UP into the pocket (where Richardson, Snacks, and Coples eat him alive). Forcing QBs to move is Beasley's thing; he lives in the backfield. He gets home with consistency (TFL, sacks, FFs, batted passes, etc.), has great strength, and the movement skills of a linebacker. IF he's on the board when we are drafting, if we stay at six, and if we're going pass rusher...He's the pick. Vic Beasley is the best fit for this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ray isn't just strictly a speed rusher. Dude can bull rush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Ray isn't just strictly a speed rusher. Dude can bull rush. When I looked at his highlight tape perhaps the thing that impressed me the most is he got pressure from the inside as often as from the outside. He is by no means just an edge guy. These are pretty tough decisions. As I said in another post the only guy I don't like is Gregory. All the others have good qualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bust potential is just too huge with all these guys. I would have to think 3-4 OLB is the riskiest of all positions to draft (other than rockslinger) in the draft. WR is pretty risky too but likely we have a chance to take a potentially elite WR with less risk than OLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Bust potential is just too huge with all these guys. I would have to think 3-4 OLB is the riskiest of all positions to draft (other than rockslinger) in the draft. WR is pretty risky too but likely we have a chance to take a potentially elite WR with less risk than OLB. Olb is the most difficult position to evaluate. Most college defenses run a 4-3 or mostly 4-man fronts so right off the bat you have that unknown variable. College FB offenses even in D-1 have a lot of gimmicky play books that inflate or deflate a pass rushers numbers depending on various situations. And then you have to consider level of competition if your facing crappy OT's who have no feet and are on a collision course with a career in the Arena league or coaching high school you're going to look like Lawrence Taylor. Ray does have the technique down and yes SEC isn't as good as it used to be but it still has to be considered the best competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 I won't disagree with the comment that olbs are risky but right now and even in rex's time the only thing preventing the jets defense from being great from just very good is a legit outside rusher other teams have to account for. There is rsik to just about every position so that would not deter me. The reward is worth the risk if you ask me. From a safe player point of view i see fowler and dupree as being safer picks but some of the others have better pure pass rush upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I was leaning toward Beasley but I am concerned about teams running at him. If we can keep blockers off of him, he can be true beast. Dude is lightning quick and the most explosive of all these guys. If it is up to me, after watching these guys some more. I am going Ray or Beasley. Ray is absolutely relentless and can be effective rushing both inside and outside. They are the two best pass rushers of the group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 One little nit pick about Beasley from what I watched. He is one of these guys that seems to be celebrating before the play is over. Makes a play assumes the guy is down then turns his back to celebrate. so often both in pros and college I see a guy do that and then there is a fumble or something and he's fudging around while the scramble ensues behind him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 One little nit pick about Beasley from what I watched. He is one of these guys that seems to be celebrating before the play is over. Makes a play assumes the guy is down then turns his back to celebrate. so often both in pros and college I see a guy do that and then there is a fumble or something and he's fudging around while the scramble ensues behind him. ******* Clemson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Shane Ray did nothing on yesterday to make me not still want him as my top pass rusher in this draft. I watch a lot of Mizzou football, and this kid is/was impossible to block when he got off the ball at the snap. His 1st step is unmatched and should not be ignored by NFL evaluators. As it stands now, I think I would take this kid with serious consideration given to Todd Gurley if he's healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant wait Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 Shane Ray did nothing on yesterday to make me not still want him as my top pass rusher in this draft. I watch a lot of Mizzou football, and this kid is/was impossible to block when he got off the ball at the snap. His 1st step is unmatched and should not be ignored by NFL evaluators. As it stands now, I think I would take this kid with serious consideration given to Todd Gurley if he's healthy. This is why you don't fall in love with prospects too early. What I saw is a kid to stiff for a 3-4 and too small to play DE. Aaron maybin syndrome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 20, 2015 Share Posted March 20, 2015 This is why you don't fall in love with prospects too early. What I saw is a kid to stiff for a 3-4 and too small to play DE. Aaron maybin syndrome We shall see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 We shall see. It's not so hard to call. It is, but it isn't kinda situation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 It's not so hard to call. It is, but it isn't kinda situation... Shane Ray would have had to put up a 48-49 forty for me to change my mind about what I see when I watch this kid play and I still wouldn't believe it. You guys are looking for a LBer who can drop into coverage and all I want is someone who will put the fear of God in Brady, Tannehill and whoever we see at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Shane Ray would have had to put up a 48-49 forty for me to change my mind about what I see when I watch this kid play and I still wouldn't believe it. You guys are looking for a LBer who can drop into coverage and all I want is someone who will put the fear of God in Brady, Tannehill and whoever we see at QB. Your best bet for that, by far, would be Dupree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 This is why you don't fall in love with prospects too early. What I saw is a kid to stiff for a 3-4 and too small to play DE. Aaron maybin syndrome I don't think he looked like maybin at all. Slower than the other guys, a bit stiffer, a bit smaller...all yes But watching his highlights he has good instincts, is anyhting but just an outside one trick pony who tries to run around the tackle. He got a good number of his sacks on inside stunts and is better than some of the others at taking a straight line to the qb. As of now I like Dupree and fowler almost equally, then ray, then beasley and then Gregory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 I won't disagree with the comment that olbs are risky but right now and even in rex's time the only thing preventing the jets defense from being great from just very good is a legit outside rusher other teams have to account for. There is rsik to just about every position so that would not deter me. The reward is worth the risk if you ask me. From a safe player point of view i see fowler and dupree as being safer picks but some of the others have better pure pass rush upside. I don't think there is any such thing as a safe OLB pick. Jadaveon Clowney was considered the biggest no-brainer safe pick as a OLB and he sucked last year. Granted, he's still young and I think he'll still be a good player in the NFL but the bust rate for OLB's is very, very high and we still have holes on the OL and can use another WR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 I don't think there is any such thing as a safe OLB pick. Jadaveon Clowney was considered the biggest no-brainer safe pick as a OLB and he sucked last year. Granted, he's still young and I think he'll still be a good player in the NFL but the bust rate for OLB's is very, very high and we still have holes on the OL and can use another WR. Clowney was hurt almost the whole year. We have a bigger hole at olb than we do at wr or oline. You will never get a lawrence taylor, aldon smith, von miller, suggs if you are afriad to pick one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Clowney was hurt almost the whole year. We have a bigger hole at olb than we do at wr or oline. You will never get a lawrence taylor, aldon smith, von miller, suggs if you are afriad to pick one. I disagree. I think our OL is very mediocre the way it stands right now. We can't block the Bills and the Dolphins just signed Suh yet we're supposed to keep gambling on OLB's who are more likely to be the next Gholston or Melvin Ingram. And don't give me the whole "Chan Gailey has the spread offense" nonsense you cannot scheme your way around a bad O-line like we currently have unless Brady or Manning is the QB and even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 I disagree. I think our OL is very mediocre the way it stands right now. We can't block the Bills and the Dolphins just signed Suh yet we're supposed to keep gambling on OLB's who are more likely to be the next Gholston or Melvin Ingram. And don't give me the whole "Chan Gailey has the spread offense" nonsense you cannot scheme your way around a bad O-line like we currently have unless Brady or Manning is the QB and even then. I never said a word about gailey and his offense has nothing to do with the oline problems or not. DBrick is still a good enough lt, mangold is still good at center we signed carpenter, Would it be nice to upgrade oline? sure, but if you think any other position has no risk to it when picking high then i'll show you multiple examples of busts at every single position picked high, including oline. Our oline is not bad, it could be better but it was hardly epic fail last year. We were one of the leading rushing teams in the league and in most cases the qb was given time to throw. Geno just sucks, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinstar Posted March 21, 2015 Share Posted March 21, 2015 Your best bet for that, by far, would be Dupree. I still prefer Shane Ray. Let me put it this way. I have 3 Favorite Players in this draft in different rounds.. LB - Shane Ray OT - Brandon Scherff QB - Sean Mannion Production, Production, Production. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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