drsamuel84 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 It's clear that with the luxury of having so much cap space Mac and the FO have taken the strategy of filling holes through Free Agency. Unlike Idzik (Who I'm not trying to bash just making a point) who wanted to build through the draft, the FO is essentially opening up the door for us to be very flexible in the draft. We can decide to go BPA at 6 or possibly trade back if it's the right deal. This is the position you want to be in. Idzik's mistake was holding on to all 12 picks and basically drafting out of need. That caused us to reach on players like Mcdougle and possibly even Pryor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 He's not going to continue to keep bringing in players like this through free agency. He can't. It'll be building through the draft for years to come after this. It's clear that with the luxury of having so much cap space Mac and the FO have taken the strategy of filling holes through Free Agency. Unlike Idzik (Who I'm not trying to bash just making a point) who wanted to build through the draft, the FO is essentially opening up the door for us to be very flexible in the draft. We can decide to go BPA at 6 or possibly trade back if it's the right deal. This is the position you want to be in. Idzik's mistake was holding on to all 12 picks and basically drafting out of need. That caused us to reach on players like Mcdougle and possibly even Pryor. Pryor was not a pick based on need. We had Dawan Landry. The Jets had him ranked as the 3rd best player in the whole draft. They 100% went BPA according to their board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 That caused us to reach on players like Mcdougle and possibly even Pryor. Pryor was a total head scratcher. Needed a strong safety like a poke in the eye with a sharp stick. Kyle Fuller of VT was the pick he needed to make. Let's face it the Rex / Idzik marriage was a doomed venture and was made because of Woody's man crush on Rex. Well he got over that in a hurry when the fans threatened mutiny. I have nothing but respect for the new team of Mac and Bowles and I think this is the tandem that will put the Jets over the top. Big Mac's moves have been nothing but smart and has upgraded the talent on the team by leaps and bounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 It's clear that with the luxury of having so much cap space Mac and the FO have taken the strategy of filling holes through Free Agency. Unlike Idzik (Who I'm not trying to bash just making a point) who wanted to build through the draft, the FO is essentially opening up the door for us to be very flexible in the draft. We can decide to go BPA at 6 or possibly trade back if it's the right deal. This is the position you want to be in. Idzik's mistake was holding on to all 12 picks and basically drafting out of need. That caused us to reach on players like Mcdougle and possibly even Pryor. This wasnt Idziks mistake. His mistakes were #1. Not hitting in the draft. Outside of Sheldon Richardson no one contributed. #2. Coming to a Team that he couldnt manage. He had to accept the staff that was already here, which meant that he wasnt the General Manager, just a guy with the title. Rex Ryan and the Coaching staff outside of Demario Davis developed no one, yet his strategy was to build through the draft. Idzik came into a Situation where his strategy would be hard to accomplish given that the Coaching staff that he couldnt fire showed when Tanny was the GM that they couldnt develop Players. Holding on to 12 draft picks wasnt a mistake, being a poor evaluator of Talent, and having a poor Coaching staff was. It defeats the purpose of the strategy. Maccagnan is a saint right now, however, this time next year if Buster Skrine Ends up worst than Wilson, Revis Plays nowhere near 16 Million Dollars, Gilchrist looks like Landry and Cromartie has hip Problems again then everyone will be crying about how he spent all that Money on Corners when we had Young guys (that idzik drafted) on the bench that we could have used. Fans do this every year, Cromartie is the absolute prime example of how fast fans will turn on you then love you again. Idzik's plan was fine, the execution was poor. He wasnt the man for that type of Job. On the upside, given that Maccagnan can actually act like a GM and fire People and get Scouts and Bowles can put together his own Coaching staff we may have a nice outcome here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The Jets had him ranked as the 3rd best player in the whole draft. this is truly scary, if true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 this is truly scary, if true A "source" said it a few days after the draft. Wouldn't be too shocked if it were true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 this is truly scary, if true Because of Rex. Hated the pick then, hate it now. Idzik may have been more successful with his own HC, but very g happy with what we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Because of Rex. Hated the pick then, hate it now. Idzik may have been more successful with his own HC, but very g happy with what we have now. rex is in buffalo now. let it go. let it go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Harris Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Right or wrong, Mac has a clear vision and is decisive. The Jets were reactionary under Tannenbaum and passive under Idzik. This ship has a captain, almost a Chip Kelly lite actually. Historically these FA binges haven't paid off but after the past few years I'm just happy to be relevant with direction. Fact is that Mac had zero options but to be aggressive in FA, the team had no talent and you only get so many draft picks and they take years to develop. Did he go a little crazy, yeah, but we are all now excited for the season. Our GM has firmly placed his stamp on the team and he was hired mostly for his talent evaluation. He really targeted specific guys so let's hope his eye for talent reaps dividends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I keep hearing the HC picks the players. Instead of Macc threads shouldn't we be thanking Bowles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 With the cap space we had, it gave Mac and Bowles the opportunity to create their own starting point. They were able to go out and acquire the players necessary to begin their tenure with the Jets with a whole team. No major rebuilding required, they can compete from day one. This also allows them to have valuable veterans all over the lineup, and approach the draft from this moment forward with a "build through the draft" philosophy. It would appear that both men saw this opportunity for what it was, a blank slate. Enough money to immediately erase weaknesses and compete, and enough time with the team they've assembled (look at the contracts over the next 3 years for these guys) to be able to draft over the next couple years the team they'll be fielding in 3 years from now. There's no immediate need to "hit" on any position in the draft right now. If we do, it's gravy. If we don't, we've got a veteran football team with a LOT of talent on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I keep hearing the HC picks the players. Instead of Macc threads shouldn't we be thanking Bowles? Both of them, yes. Maybe one day our fan base will understand this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Maccagnan is a saint right now, however, this time next year if Buster Skrine Ends up worst than Wilson, Revis Plays nowhere near 16 Million Dollars, Gilchrist looks like Landry and Cromartie has hip Problems again then everyone will be crying about how he spent all that Money on Corners when we had Young guys (that idzik drafted) on the bench that we could have used. Fans do this every year, Cromartie is the absolute prime example of how fast fans will turn on you then love you again. Idzik's plan was fine, the execution was poor. He wasnt the man for that type of Job. Well said. Only thing different is I think before passing judgement on the poor execution I would wait to see how his draft class pans out. Any draft class needs to be given more than one season before you give up on it. So I would like to see where last season's draft class is end of this next season and the one after that and see if there is any progress or contributions that help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SouthernJet Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Well said. Only thing different is I think before passing judgement on the poor execution I would wait to see how his draft class pans out. Any draft class needs to be given more than one season before you give up on it. So I would like to see where last season's draft class is end of this next season and the one after that and see if there is any progress or contributions that help us. of course..I always say, u need 3 years to fairly judge.. For all we know, everything Mac is doing is exactly what Idzik had planned. Passed on revis last year cause he felt 2014 Jets didnt hAVE A PRAYER TO MAKE PLAYoFF RUN (or woody was still pissed and said 'no way in hell'). Save bucks for a 2015 run w/better crop of FAs. Who the hell knows excpet this guy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Both of them, yes. Maybe one day our fan base will understand this. Maybe one day you'll understand that there's simply no way in hell Rex wasn't begging Idzik to give him corners and help on the offense the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Maybe one day you'll understand that there's simply no way in hell Rex wasn't begging Idzik to give him corners and help on the offense the last couple years. no, no he won't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 With the cap space we had, it gave Mac and Bowles the opportunity to create their own starting point. They were able to go out and acquire the players necessary to begin their tenure with the Jets with a whole team. No major rebuilding required, they can compete from day one. This also allows them to have valuable veterans all over the lineup, and approach the draft from this moment forward with a "build through the draft" philosophy. It would appear that both men saw this opportunity for what it was, a blank slate. Enough money to immediately erase weaknesses and compete, and enough time with the team they've assembled (look at the contracts over the next 3 years for these guys) to be able to draft over the next couple years the team they'll be fielding in 3 years from now. There's no immediate need to "hit" on any position in the draft right now. If we do, it's gravy. If we don't, we've got a veteran football team with a LOT of talent on it. Great post. It's pretty clear these guys know what they're doing. This is how good teams are run - it's really nice to know we're in good hands. Man if we hit on a QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Maybe one day you'll understand that there's simply no way in hell Rex wasn't begging Idzik to give him corners and help on the offense the last couple years. I never said he didn't ask for corners. I said that he and Tanny turned the roster into sh*t long before Idzik got hire, and Idzik was only hired because Rex wasn't fired. If you're going to try and cast me into a role in this stupid debate, then cast accordingly. My position is they all sucked, Idzik was a result of cause and effect, Tanny hired Rex, Rex and Tanny ruined the roster, Rex got Tanny fired, Rex prohibited us from hiring anyone better than Idzik, Idzik is why Rex finally got fired. The way I see it, Idzik did us a favor. Just like Favre ending the Pennington era, Idzik ended the Rex era. GFY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Well said. Only thing different is I think before passing judgement on the poor execution I would wait to see how his draft class pans out. Any draft class needs to be given more than one season before you give up on it. So I would like to see where last season's draft class is end of this next season and the one after that and see if there is any progress or contributions that help us. When I say poor execution I dont mean in regards to the Talent, I mean in regards to the Coaching that was supposed to develop the Talent. This is why I said earlier that he was stuck with a Coaching staff that showed that they couldnt develop Players going back to the Tannenbaum days. I liked the fact that Idzik got Sheldon then Milliner and waited for Geno to fall. I liked his Jace Amaro Pick. I would have went another direction with the Pryor pick though I still think that it was a solid pick. I like McDougal though I would have went the Phillip Gaines route. For all the criticism that Idzik gets, I think alot of it was based on situations literally out of his control given that Woody geared it that way. If Idzik wanted a GM Job, taking the Jets Job with limitations wasnt the move to make. He will probably never get such an opportunity again. He took a Job that was heavily restricted and had a HC who only knew/cared about top 10 defenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 When I say poor execution I dont mean in regards to the Talent, I mean in regards to the Coaching that was supposed to develop the Talent. This is why I said earlier that he was stuck with a Coaching staff that showed that they couldnt develop Players going back to the Tannenbaum days. I liked the fact that Idzik got Sheldon then Milliner and waited for Geno to fall. I liked his Jace Amaro Pick. I would have went another direction with the Pryor pick though I still think that it was a solid pick. I like McDougal though I would have went the Phillip Gaines route. For all the criticism that Idzik gets, I think alot of it was based on situations literally out of his control given that Woody geared it that way. If Idzik wanted a GM Job, taking the Jets Job with limitations wasnt the move to make. He will probably never get such an opportunity again. He took a Job that was heavily restricted and had a HC who only knew/cared about top 10 defenses. Have to agree with all of this and never felt Idzik was so incompetent. His biggest mistake was falling for the meaningless 3 game winning streak/8-8 record and going all in with that end of season locker room " Rex is your football coach" speech and not canning him when he had the chance. Then he had a coach who had to win now with no desire to develop anyone and a roster in rebuild mode. The injuries to the secondary just hastened the inevitable disaster that happened. That showed he didn't have the management skills to really handle the job. We are lucky it went so bad that Woody finally woke up and cleaned house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drsamuel84 Posted March 13, 2015 Author Share Posted March 13, 2015 In no way was this post meant to bash Idzik. I agree with the point that Iddzik inherited and terrible cap situation and needed to clear that up before doing anything. All I'm saying is that with our current cap situation Mac and Co. are doing a great job of filling holes through free agency leaving us a lot of flexibility in the draft. Is this type of offseason sustainable in the long run? Of course not, we're not goint o have $50 million in cap space every spring but the good part is we shouldn't need to if we draft well and sign the right talent for the right type of contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets723 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 To be fair its easy to look like a genius when you have so much cap space at your disposal. We did have to overpay. The real test is the next few drafts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docdhc Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 To be fair its easy to look like a genius when you have so much cap space at your disposal. We did have to overpay. The real test is the next few drafts The real test IMO is how these guys perform. It's easy to spend a lot but only time will tell if it was money well spent. If Revis and Cro stay healthy and the defense plays lights out the next two years he will look good. If Marshall helps and Geno/Fitz improves the offense significantly, and he can resign Wilk and Sheldon, he will be on his way to being a great GM. If he finds a franchise QB he will attain genius status. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets723 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 The real test IMO is how these guys perform. It's easy to spend a lot but only time will tell if it was money well spent. If Revis and Cro stay healthy and the defense plays lights out the next two years he will look good. If Marshall helps and Geno/Fitz improves the offense significantly, and he can resign Wilk and Sheldon, he will be on his way to being a great GM. If he finds a franchise QB he will attain genius status. i like the guy, he is a football guy and not a cap guy like idzik and tannembaum. So far so good for mac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 Have to agree with all of this and never felt Idzik was so incompetent. His biggest mistake was falling for the meaningless 3 game winning streak/8-8 record and going all in with that end of season locker room " Rex is your football coach" speech and not canning him when he had the chance. Then he had a coach who had to win now with no desire to develop anyone and a roster in rebuild mode. The injuries to the secondary just hastened the inevitable disaster that happened. That showed he didn't have the management skills to really handle the job. We are lucky it went so bad that Woody finally woke up and cleaned house. I agree 100%. I think Woody stopped it. No way in hell Idzik thought that the 7-9 record before that fins game warranted another shot. Woody didnt let Idzik do his Job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jets723 Posted March 13, 2015 Share Posted March 13, 2015 I dont hate idzik BUT he never should have been the GM mainly because he isnt a football guy. As a cap guy he helped us in a way because the 2015 free agent class is better and we had plenty to spend. However he clearly couldnt draft well other than richardson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetknowledge Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Funny thing is, if idzick wasn't fired & would've picked a coach (most likely dan quinn) he could've had all this planned out except rex actually winning a game last year, maybe he was tanking for Winston? (Just a possibility) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I keep hearing the HC picks the players. Instead of Macc threads shouldn't we be thanking Bowles? They both do. The HC has a HUGE influence on who is picked as grades are adjusted by the scheme of the HC, as well as the opinion of the player by the head coach. Do you honestly believe that Calvin Pryor would have been our first round pick if we had a different HC last year? No way. Offensive coached team would have selected receiver especially for the Jets offense, different defensive scheme HC maybe would have selected Ha Ha Clinton Dix. The idea of BPA is complete nonsense. THe scouting department does create a list of the BPA and then that is adjusted to scheme. HC and coordinator input and need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 I dont hate idzik BUT he never should have been the GM mainly because he isnt a football guy. As a cap guy he helped us in a way because the 2015 free agent class is better and we had plenty to spend. However he clearly couldnt draft well other than richardson I love Idzik's philosophy. Teams 100% should build almost entirely through the draft. But he did not have the player evaluation knowledge, and probably let Rex have too much say to be successful. Mac was super busy in FA this year but I think he will approach the building of the team much as Idzik envisioned but with much more competence at player evaluation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack48 Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 When I say poor execution I dont mean in regards to the Talent, I mean in regards to the Coaching that was supposed to develop the Talent. This is why I said earlier that he was stuck with a Coaching staff that showed that they couldnt develop Players going back to the Tannenbaum days. I liked the fact that Idzik got Sheldon then Milliner and waited for Geno to fall. I liked his Jace Amaro Pick. I would have went another direction with the Pryor pick though I still think that it was a solid pick. I like McDougal though I would have went the Phillip Gaines route. For all the criticism that Idzik gets, I think alot of it was based on situations literally out of his control given that Woody geared it that way. If Idzik wanted a GM Job, taking the Jets Job with limitations wasnt the move to make. He will probably never get such an opportunity again. He took a Job that was heavily restricted and had a HC who only knew/cared about top 10 defenses. Woody is the cause of this. Keeping Rex kept a better GM candidate from coming here, putting us 2 more years behind the 8 ball. Idzik may have panned out, we will never know because conditions and events proved to be an obstacle to his success, but he was not the best candidate by a long shot. And he was a fool to take the job with those conditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 At this point it's all water under the bridge & I thank god that it all worked out the way that it did. Finally, it looks like things broke right for our Jets. Idzik fires Rex before last year & a new coach would have needed us to overspend on a weak free agent market. So we end up suffering another year but oh my god was it worth it. We get Mac & Bowles! We finally got a real football nut in Mac & a more disciplined coach who by all accounts relates to players but is no softy. Chan Gailey comes here with a pedigree that he can adapt to whatever fits our offensive personnel. We have very high picks in every round but the 6th. Every mock draft known to man shows the Jets sitting pretty @ 6. We are getting a PLAYER there unlike the Gholston draft. Revis is back PLUS we got Sheldon because of the trade (Pats winning Super Bowl sucks but what are you gonna do?) still works out for the Jets future. So many things have gone our way this offseason including indulging in the best free agent class in the history of the game! Like 170 players have been signed & a guy like Greg Hardy is still sitting out there! Guys in there prime! Remember when we had to settle for Ronnie Lott & Leonard Marshall? I've been a Jet fan a LONG TIME and I have never been more excited for our immediate future than right now. The guys in charge & the direction & plan seem to be in place for near & long term success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Woody is the cause of this. Keeping Rex kept a better GM candidate from coming here, putting us 2 more years behind the 8 ball. Idzik may have panned out, we will never know because conditions and events proved to be an obstacle to his success, but he was not the best candidate by a long shot. And he was a fool to take the job with those conditions. Every GM had to start off somewhere. Idzik started out in a really piss poor Situation and he shouldnt have taken the Job. There were alot of things that Idzik did wrong, which some of that is to be expected from a guy who is also Feeling the Position out and learning on the fly. The difference is that Idzik had no Support. Maccagnan and Bowles came in together, they're a Team. Everything was cleaned out and they started from scratch. Idzik came in to fix the cap, had no one on his side because he wasnt able to bring in any allies to Support him. The General Manager was basically the outsider. Truth be told, Woody understood this and he wanted the cap fixed and sacraficed 2 years in order for us to regroup. Idzik will probably never get another shot at GM because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 This wasnt Idziks mistake. His mistakes were #1. Not hitting in the draft. Outside of Sheldon Richardson no one contributed. #2. Coming to a Team that he couldnt manage. He had to accept the staff that was already here, which meant that he wasnt the General Manager, just a guy with the title. Rex Ryan and the Coaching staff outside of Demario Davis developed no one, yet his strategy was to build through the draft. Idzik came into a Situation where his strategy would be hard to accomplish given that the Coaching staff that he couldnt fire showed when Tanny was the GM that they couldnt develop Players. Holding on to 12 draft picks wasnt a mistake, being a poor evaluator of Talent, and having a poor Coaching staff was. It defeats the purpose of the strategy. Maccagnan is a saint right now, however, this time next year if Buster Skrine Ends up worst than Wilson, Revis Plays nowhere near 16 Million Dollars, Gilchrist looks like Landry and Cromartie has hip Problems again then everyone will be crying about how he spent all that Money on Corners when we had Young guys (that idzik drafted) on the bench that we could have used. Fans do this every year, Cromartie is the absolute prime example of how fast fans will turn on you then love you again. Idzik's plan was fine, the execution was poor. He wasnt the man for that type of Job. On the upside, given that Maccagnan can actually act like a GM and fire People and get Scouts and Bowles can put together his own Coaching staff we may have a nice outcome here. This is an outstanding post. Thank you!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villain The Foe Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 This is an outstanding post. Thank you!!! thanks, and you're welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetmech Posted March 14, 2015 Share Posted March 14, 2015 Because of Rex. Hated the pick then, hate it now. Idzik may have been more successful with his own HC, but very g happy with what we have now. I believe it was JI. Rex didn't even know about him. Who knows but Pryor had a weird rookie season.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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