Tender for Damon Harrison

[evsbabes]

I'm not sure I understand why the Jets didn't offer a 1st round tender for Damon Harrison instead of the 2nd round tender they did offer him.  It would have only cost the Jets about another 900K, and would have guaranteed a first round draft pick for the Jets if someone else snagged him without us matching.

 

Harrison got the reputation through his play as a tough run stopper, and I think what the Jets did is an open invitation for others to go after him.

 

For instance, let's say that the Patriots offered Harrison 5 Million per year for 4 years, would we match that?  If not, we only get a 2nd round pick, which is the end of the 2nd round by the way, and the Patriots would get a capable replacement for the defensive middle for the next 4 years, and we would now be looking for his replacement.  And if we did match it, then why wouldn't we have tendered him for a 1st round pick to begin with?

 

If the Jets gave him a first round tender, then a team like the Patriots would think twice before making a move like this.

 

I just don't get it!

[KRL]

They may have put a 2nd round tender on Harrison because they may want someone to

make an offer to him.  Even though we all love "Snacks" story and he's been a great

run stuffer he really hasn't taken that "Kris Jenkins" step where he constantly puts

pressure on the QB in passing downs.  Our new regime may want to get another 2nd

round pick and then re-sign Kenrick Ellis for less $$$ than Harrison may get 

[Villain The Foe]

You're right. They could have put a 1st round tender and then negotiated if someone was interested. They probably put the 2nd round grade however to make it more enticing. They probably want the pick instead (and resign Kendrick Ellis). I dont know much about the tender System outside of some info I learned maybe a month ago, but I'll give Bowles and Mac the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they Think they will be able to Keep him and they will be able to sign him to a cheaper contract if the tender is a 2nd rounder. who knows?

[KRL]

The tender system protects the Jets and let's them see what the market for Harrison is.

They can always match whatever offer he gets or they could let him go and take the

2nd round pick

[bergenjets]

Nice story, good player and I hope he stays, but is he a full time player?

[bealeb319]

Related to this topic, has there been any news of what teams if any have shown interest?

[Ghost]

If I was the Pats, I would trade for him. I really would.

[Savage69]

You're right. They could have put a 1st round tender and then negotiated if someone was interested. They probably put the 2nd round grade however to make it more enticing. They probably want the pick instead (and resign Kendrick Ellis). I dont know much about the tender System outside of some info I learned maybe a month ago, but I'll give Bowles and Mac the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they Think they will be able to Keep him and they will be able to sign him to a cheaper contract if the tender is a 2nd rounder. who knows?

They also have TJ Barnes the 364 pound DT who flashed a bit last year..

[Larz]

if brandon marshall is worth a 5th round pick, snacks is safe with a 2nd.  

[k-met57]

correct me if i am wrong but putting a 1st round tender on him also drives up his price if they want to re-sign him down the road...you are basically confirming his value to the market and his agent based on the tender.

[Villain The Foe]

They also have TJ Barnes the 364 pound DT who flashed a bit last year..

Even more reason. Bottomline is that we cant pay all of These guys. Some may think that I dont like Wilkerson, I really like him, but I'd rather have Richardson Long term. This is why im not hot about the FO not giving him a contract. If we do we'll probably not be able to afford Richardson in 2 years. If TJ Barnes is flashing and Kendrick can maintain his dominance in situational running Plays then we can afford to lose such a good Talent in Snacks. You never want guys like that to go, but guys want to get paid.

[DaBallhawk]

If I was the Pats, I would trade for him. I really would.

 

Same here. Snacks is the type of guy teams would draft in the top 10. See Poe, Raji, Wilfork, Tyson Jackson, Dareus, Dorsey, guys like that. They're not gonna get any better than Snacks is right now. So why risk drafting a bust in the top 10 somewhere when you can get a stud at 25 years old who is already proven, for just a 2nd round pick, a late 2nd round pick at that. Don't get it.

[patman]

The tender system protects the Jets and let's them see what the market for Harrison is.

They can always match whatever offer he gets or they could let him go and take the

2nd round pick

I posted in an earlier thread, that I thought the pats would make a run at him. He is worth the 64th player in the draft. The pats could make him an 3 year offer that he would be the highest paid DT on the team. That would require the jets to pay him more than Wilkenson's 7mill this year and preclude the jets from tagging Wilkenson next year as it would have the effect of tagging Harrison at the same time.

[patman]

correct me if i am wrong but putting a 1st round tender on him also drives up his price if they want to re-sign him down the road...you are basically confirming his value to the market and his agent based on the tender.

You don't think he knows his value to the jets?

[Sperm Edwards]

Nice story, good player and I hope he stays, but is he a full time player?

 

Picture when he's gone and we have all these DBs assisting in shorter yardage or goal line stances where we still have to legitimately watch out for the pass. The extra blocker Harrison occupies or pushes backwards, or the tackle he isn't there to make, allows the RB to cross the 1st down marker or goal line; or when teams are (successfully) running out the clock on us because our run defense isn't what it was; at this time we'll see how much people are still meh'ing at Harrison's worth. He's a 26 year-old beast of a run-stuffer. Just because there are a lot of young guys that size doesn't mean they can play like he does (or even stay healthy). 

 

IMO he's more important to the team - or he should be - than a 31 year-old Cromartie is at $8M per with some $20M guaranteed (when we already had 4 CBs - 2 recent additions and a #9 overall pick among them - plus another draft coming up). While I do like him and on a fan-level am happy he's back, even forgetting the $ he's getting the reality is he isn't that good anymore like he was in 2012 or earlier. One really has to forget his 2014 pro bowl honors because he was also a pro bowler in 2013 (when he played like nothing of the sort). Though he improved from 2013, largely or completely due to health, he got burned a bunch of times last year as well, so he's clearly gotten votes based on past reputation and isn't likely to get continually better each year.

 

Back to Harrison, if we did have some talks with his representatives and his demands were just crazy, then I think this is the right thing to do and the right tender amount. At least if his top offer is in line with what we had in mind we can still match. If we don't, then we're getting a good pick from him now instead of (potentially) nothing next year. And if he doesn't get any serious offers, that should lower his own demands with us.

[YankeeJet22]

I woulda gave him a First round tender.  

[Integrity28]

if brandon marshall is worth a 5th round pick, snacks is safe with a 2nd.

This

[Sperm Edwards]

I would just hate to lose Harrison to NE, who then gets a cheaper, 7-year younger, instant/sure-thing replacement for Wilfork, and only has to surrender a #64 pick they were as likely as not to mess up anyway. It would be like rescuing them from one of their high profile offseason losses and we don't get such a great pick in return.

 

Our recent moves make it harder to tender Snacks higher. We have 3 young DLmen (4 with Coples), and not one of them is locked up long term. (Plus Ellis is already a FA). Richardson is the one locked up the longest, but he could be a holdout candidate and therefore may not be only a $3M cap hit past this season anyway. As things stand, the likelihood is we're simply not going to be able to re-sign all 3 with all the moves we've recently made. Not impossible, but it would make other future FA additions very difficult.

[patman]

This

So you don't think the scenario that I posted in Post #13 in this thread has merit?  Easley will not get more than 2 mill until 2019, Branch and Siliga only get 2mill.  The NFL treats 3-4 DEs as DT for tag purposes as they play the same position as a 3 tech DT between the tackle-guard gap. The pats sign him to a 3 year 15 mill contract with a 9 mill SB, but with the stipulation that he will be the highest paid DT on the team. The jets have to match that offer and that would make his first year salary over 7mill or cause the jets to trade Wilkenson and then the last year of his 3 year contract richardson new option would kick in and his last years salary would balloon after giving him a 9 mill bonus two years earlier.

[DaBallhawk]

BB is a rat. If he really wants Snacks he's gonna wait for Ellis to sign with somebody first so we don't have anybody to take over for Snacks. He's not gonna hand us their 2nd round pick and then basically allow us to re-sign Ellis, that's basically no dropoff.

[GREENBEAN]

Same here. Snacks is the type of guy teams would draft in the top 10. See Poe, Raji, Wilfork, Tyson Jackson, Dareus, Dorsey, guys like that. They're not gonna get any better than Snacks is right now. So why risk drafting a bust in the top 10 somewhere when you can get a stud at 25 years old who is already proven, for just a 2nd round pick, a late 2nd round pick at that. Don't get it.

I believe they have every intention of bringing him back in. This is a method of checking his value. If in the event someone makes him a ridiculous offer that we simply can't match we get a 2. If he gets an offer that's realistic we match it. Most likely he will find that his market is not quite to where he values himself ( not that we've heard he has high demands or anything like that). We do not know the internal discussions that have taken place and Snacks may have asked for a large sum. Who knows? But we are in the position of power here with him and this will benefit us in one way or the other. The Pats aren't going to offer him something we can't match. At least I don't think so.

 

It looks to me like Mac actually has foresight and does not simply think of the here and now, but long term goals and solutions. Like was said, we still have TJ Barnes who is no slouch himself and a legit up and comer. This smart management and not allowing emotional attachment to play a role in the roster decisions.

[patman]

I would just hate to lose Harrison to NE, who then gets a cheaper, 7-year younger, instant/sure-thing replacement for Wilfork, and only has to surrender a #62 pick they were as likely as not to mess up anyway. It would be like rescuing them from one of their high profile offseason losses and we don't get such a great pick in return.

 

Our recent moves make it harder to tender Snacks higher. We have 3 young DLmen (4 with Coples), and not one of them is locked up long term. (Plus Ellis is already a FA). Richardson is the one locked up the longest, but he could be a holdout candidate and therefore may not be only a $3M cap hit past this season anyway. As things stand, the likelihood is we're simply not going to be able to re-sign all 3 with all the moves we've recently made. Not impossible, but it would make other future FA additions very difficult.

it is the 64th pick but who's counting.

 

I would hope that The pats not going after Knighton or Fairley who both signed reasonable deals is a precursor to the pats signing harrsion with a poison pill. I don't think the jets belive that the pats were going to cut wilfork and leave themselves with a gaping need at NT  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

I would just hate to lose Harrison to NE, who then gets a cheaper, 7-year younger, instant/sure-thing replacement for Wilfork, and only has to surrender a #62 pick they were as likely as not to mess up anyway. It would be like rescuing them from one of their high profile offseason losses and we don't get such a great pick in return.

Yes. The Patriots might throw a second round pick out the window to pay a guy more than the Jets will. This is a thing that could happen.

[GREENBEAN]

I would just hate to lose Harrison to NE, who then gets a cheaper, 7-year younger, instant/sure-thing replacement for Wilfork, and only has to surrender a #64 pick they were as likely as not to mess up anyway. It would be like rescuing them from one of their high profile offseason losses and we don't get such a great pick in return.

 

Our recent moves make it harder to tender Snacks higher. We have 3 young DLmen (4 with Coples), and not one of them is locked up long term. (Plus Ellis is already a FA). Richardson is the one locked up the longest, but he could be a holdout candidate and therefore may not be only a $3M cap hit past this season anyway. As things stand, the likelihood is we're simply not going to be able to re-sign all 3 with all the moves we've recently made. Not impossible, but it would make other future FA additions very difficult.

Yeah I would hate that too, but sometimes you simply have to let good players go for the continuing growth of a roster. In this scenario we would at least get considerable compensation for him.  a number 2 pick is nothing to look down at, be it at 62 or higher. Marshall and Wallace were just sold for slightly less than a 5th and that says something. Hopefully this will be to our benefit having a personnel based GM in charge. We're just shell shocked with our recent inability to draft any quality as we move down the draft board. 

The winds of change are upon us....... I hope.

[UnknownJetFan]

Guys,

 

NE may have cap issues as to why they aren't looking at snacks. They now don't have both of their starting CBs and they didn't want to pay CB Browner around 4M or so option they needed to keep him, so 4M a year for snacks when they need to get CBs now may be out of the question for them. 

[j4jets]

I'm not sure I understand why the Jets didn't offer a 1st round tender for Damon Harrison instead of the 2nd round tender they did offer him. It would have only cost the Jets about another 900K, and would have guaranteed a first round draft pick for the Jets if someone else snagged him without us matching.

Harrison got the reputation through his play as a tough run stopper, and I think what the Jets did is an open invitation for others to go after him.

For instance, let's say that the Patriots offered Harrison 5 Million per year for 4 years, would we match that? If not, we only get a 2nd round pick, which is the end of the 2nd round by the way, and the Patriots would get a capable replacement for the defensive middle for the next 4 years, and we would now be looking for his replacement. And if we did match it, then why wouldn't we have tendered him for a 1st round pick to begin with?

If the Jets gave him a first round tender, then a team like the Patriots would think twice before making a move like this.

I just don't get it!

I doubt any NFL team is willing to give up a 2nd for snacks. So that's a mil saved for us. Even if another team is willing to offer a deal, Jets would be in a situation to get a pick or snacks. Snacks is good but I feel 2nd rounder could be even better, especially on that rookie deal.

[Sperm Edwards]

I posted in an earlier thread, that I thought the pats would make a run at him. He is worth the 64th player in the draft. The pats could make him an 3 year offer that he would be the highest paid DT on the team. That would require the jets to pay him more than Wilkenson's 7mill this year and preclude the jets from tagging Wilkenson next year as it would have the effect of tagging Harrison at the same time.

 

You sure that stuff is still allowed? I thought that poison pill clauses were outlawed for good in the new 2011 CBA. You can only offer or guarantee actual dollar amounts, not dollar amounts relative to some other player on the team's roster (or additional guarantees kicking in if more than x games are played in the old/competing team's home state).

 

The reasoning is it has the effect of the identically-worded contract being worth 2 vastly different dollar amounts on 2 different teams. This could (and would) penalize a team for doing exactly what the NFLPA wanted: paying premium dollars for a premium player (in your example, Wilkerson).

 

I could be wrong, but I thought in a contract the compensation now has to be concrete dollar amounts where the dollar-value variations are tied to some types of football-playing incentives (stats, snaps, games started, team performance, etc.), or they could be tied relative to other players at the position league-wide, but not limit the comparison to the player's roster. 

[Sperm Edwards]

Guys,

 

NE may have cap issues as to why they aren't looking at snacks. They now don't have both of their starting CBs and they didn't want to pay CB Browner around 4M or so option they needed to keep him, so 4M a year for snacks when they need to get CBs now may be out of the question for them. 

 

NE also has minimum-spending issues (or had them 2 weeks ago). A player like Snacks could satisfy both (spending cash now and lower cap hit now) by making a larger portion of his year 1 compensation a signing bonus that gets spread over 4 or 5 seasons. They're not going to to that with Wilfork again because he turns 34 mid-season (therefore they cut him). But they could do it with Snacks because he's young.

 

They may need to get CBs but they also could use a run-stuffer. Wilfork may have helped them get a ring this season on a play where he did nothing other than be on the field. If they had a meh run-stopper in his place then maybe Seattle doesn't try to get too cute and they just go with what got them there and NE loses. A serious run-stuffer can force a team into doing something riskier and less wise. Having re-upped Wilfork multiple times in the past, I doubt this point was lost on the Patriots before, and certainly not now.

 

Also I think $4M/year for him, while possible, is optimistically low.

[HessStation]

I'm not sure I understand why the Jets didn't offer a 1st round tender for Damon Harrison instead of the 2nd round tender they did offer him. It would have only cost the Jets about another 900K, and would have guaranteed a first round draft pick for the Jets if someone else snagged him without us matching.

Harrison got the reputation through his play as a tough run stopper, and I think what the Jets did is an open invitation for others to go after him.

For instance, let's say that the Patriots offered Harrison 5 Million per year for 4 years, would we match that? If not, we only get a 2nd round pick, which is the end of the 2nd round by the way, and the Patriots would get a capable replacement for the defensive middle for the next 4 years, and we would now be looking for his replacement. And if we did match it, then why wouldn't we have tendered him for a 1st round pick to begin with?

If the Jets gave him a first round tender, then a team like the Patriots would think twice before making a move like this.

I just don't get it!

For starters, because Absolutely no team in their right mind was giving the Jets a first round pick for Harrison.

[Sperm Edwards]

it is the 64th pick but who's counting.

 

I would hope that The pats not going after Knighton or Fairley who both signed reasonable deals is a precursor to the pats signing harrsion with a poison pill. I don't think the jets belive that the pats were going to cut wilfork and leave themselves with a gaping need at NT  

 

I changed it after I wrote it. Maybe I was thinking of what your pick should have been .

The Jets had to know what the Pats' cap situation was. It's no secret. Fact is we had two NT replacements for Wilfork both hitting free agency this year. It is nothing out of the ordinary to think NE might again be interested in a veteran NT like they've had since Wilfork became one.

[JetsRay]

I look forward to the day where every player that either leaves or potentially leaves when the discussion doesn't immediately evolve into "Oh no, he may go to the Pats...."

[patman]

Sperm, no they are still legal. They are discouraging teams from putting absurd clauses like 1mill extra for every game played in new jersey. But an offer that allows him to be the highest paid D-tackle on the team is very reasonable.  

 

 

 

1. The poison pill – Technically, it's still not illegal, but the NFL quietly discourages clauses in restrictive free agents' contracts that make it nearly impossible for the current team to retain the player. It has resulted in some absurd moments. In 2006, Steve Hutchinson left Seattle for Minnesota, the Vikings getting him for a seven-year, $49 million contract that included a poison pill that the Seahawks unsuccessfully challenged. In return, Seattle then signed Minnesota wide receiver Nate Burleson later in March 2006 to a matching seven-year, $49 million deal that included two poison pills. Here is the description of the two poison pills from then-ESPN reporter Len Pasquarelli: "The first would guarantee the entire contract, all $49 million, if Burleson plays five or more games in the state of Minnesota in any season of the contract. The Vikings, of course, play home games in Minneapolis, at the Metrodome there. The second bizarre provision would guarantee the full contract if Burleson is paid more on average per year than all of the Minnesota running backs combined. At least for now, the averages of the Vikings' tailbacks fall well shy of the $7 million average of the Burleson offer sheet."

[patman]

Guys,

 

NE may have cap issues as to why they aren't looking at snacks. They now don't have both of their starting CBs and they didn't want to pay CB Browner around 4M or so option they needed to keep him, so 4M a year for snacks when they need to get CBs now may be out of the question for them. 

The pats after signing Chandler have 12mill in cap room, another 10 mill could easily be gathered from reworking mayo's 11 mill cap hit and extending Solder.  Browner would have been 6mill.   

[Sperm Edwards]

Yes. The Patriots might throw a second round pick out the window to pay a guy more than the Jets will. This is a thing that could happen.

 

It's only out the window if they consider it to be thrown out the window. If the Jets felt Harrison's presence was that crucial to the team they wouldn't risk it over $1M. NE clearly feels the same NT position is far more valuable to them, as evidenced by the money they've been paying Wilfork for some time now. They may still pay Wilfork again, but are seeing what other options they have first. Will they think Harrison is worth their 2nd round pick? I didn't suggest it was probable, but in no way out of the question given their team's situation and present needs.

 

And your sarcasm aside, NE has done this same thing before, in case you slept through their acquisition of Wes Welker. Welker was tagged with a 2nd rounder and NE paid him more than the Dolphins were willing to pay him. Uh-doyyyyyy!

 

So not only is it something that could happen, it is something that has happened, and the result isn't likely to scare them off again.

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm, no they are still legal. They are discouraging teams from putting absurd clauses like 1mill extra for every game played in new jersey. But an offer that allows him to be the highest paid D-tackle on the team is very reasonable.  

 

 

 

1. The poison pill – Technically, it's still not illegal, but the NFL quietly discourages clauses in restrictive free agents' contracts that make it nearly impossible for the current team to retain the player. It has resulted in some absurd moments. In 2006, Steve Hutchinson left Seattle for Minnesota, the Vikings getting him for a seven-year, $49 million contract that included a poison pill that the Seahawks unsuccessfully challenged. In return, Seattle then signed Minnesota wide receiver Nate Burleson later in March 2006 to a matching seven-year, $49 million deal that included two poison pills. Here is the description of the two poison pills from then-ESPN reporter Len Pasquarelli: "The first would guarantee the entire contract, all $49 million, if Burleson plays five or more games in the state of Minnesota in any season of the contract. The Vikings, of course, play home games in Minneapolis, at the Metrodome there. The second bizarre provision would guarantee the full contract if Burleson is paid more on average per year than all of the Minnesota running backs combined. At least for now, the averages of the Vikings' tailbacks fall well shy of the $7 million average of the Burleson offer sheet."

 

That was a long time ago, before the current CBA. And they addressed it in the CBA because it was overturned in arbitration. Not saying it can't be done, but I know they made it stricter so that neither of those deals would have been allowed.

 

I'm sure there are always methods of sneaking things in there that were never intended. 

Since it appears you got that excerpt from Wikipedia, you should have pasted (or read) the part that came directly after that:

 

In 2011, the NFL and NFLPA ratified a new collective bargaining agreement. In this agreement, poison pill clauses were eliminated from offer sheets issued to players under the transition tag. The specific language in the CBA states:

"No Offer Sheet may contain a Principal Term that would create rights or obligations for the Old Club that differ in any way (including but not limited to the amount of compensation that would be paid, the circumstances in which compensation would be guaranteed, or the circumstances in which other contractual rights would or would not vest) from the rights or obligations that such Principal Term would create for the Club extending the Offer Sheet (i.e., no 'poison pills')."

The effect of this additional language has resulted in the transition tag being useful to teams again. In 2014, the Pittsburgh Steelers applied the transition tag to Jason Worilds and the Cleveland Browns applied the transition tag to Alex Mack. Worilds signed his transition tag, while Mack accepted an offer sheet from Jacksonville. Cleveland later matched to the offer sheet, thus keeping Mack as a Brown.