DaBallhawk Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 Ellis hasn't shown even a glimpse of ELITE talent. He is a below average motor guy who is happy being in the NFL and collecting a paycheck. I think Snacks upside is much higher and I think the Jets will resign him. Quality depth is always coveted. You don't watch the guy play, that's the problem. And I'm not sure how you know what kind of motor he has when he's only playing limited snaps. Snacks has no upside, he's not gonna get any better. He is arguably the best run stopping force in the game. He can't get any better. Ellis might not have the same upside as a run stopper but he's a much better pass rusher, so I think he can be a more complete player. Potentially. He's more of a Kris Jenkins while Snacks is more of a Wilfork (from 5-10 years ago), that comparison is spot on. With Ellis however it's pure speculation if he can reach his potential. He has to stay healthy and we have to see how he responds to being an every down player (his cardio, his motor etc. will be tested). Who knows. But to say he's just collecting checks, doesn't have a motor and whatnot is silly. He's had some bad luck, he keeps getting banged up. We'll see if he's made of glass or whether it's just bad luck. From what I've seen of him off the field however he seems like a great guy who voices his opinion and is down to earth. The opposite of somebody who doesn't care or doesn't play hard. Seems like a hard worker but I'm not gonna act like I know for a fact, that's just the vibe I'm getting. Same for Snacks by the way. Only difference really is that Snacks had to work his way up, he was never given anything. Ellis was always viewed as a supertalented guy, blue chip prospect, a never was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 A second round pick is gold my friend. And that pick comes ONLY if the Jets don't match the offer. It's not like we would be losing Joe Klecko in his prime. The guy is a two down player. If this goes down as I hope and the pats sign him to a 3 year deal for 15 mill with a 9mill bonus with the stipulation that he is the highest paid DT on the team and a no trade , how do the jets maintain control. With Wilkenson making 7mill this year that would give Harrsion 17mill for playing NT next year and if Mo is tagged next year 13mill more. This is a good deal for him, while he gives up a year in FA, he gets 9mill up front next year rather than the 2 mill he makes under the tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 If this goes down as I hope and the pats sign him to a 3 year deal for 15 mill with a 9mill bonus with the stipulation that he is the highest paid DT on the team and a no trade , how do the jets maintain control. It's called collusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 If this goes down as I hope and the pats sign him to a 3 year deal for 15 mill with a 9mill bonus with the stipulation that he is the highest paid DT on the team and a no trade , how do the jets maintain control. With Wilkenson making 7mill this year that would give Harrsion 17mill for playing NT next year and if Mo is tagged next year 13mill more. This is a good deal for him, while he gives up a year in FA, he gets 9mill up front next year rather than the 2 mill he makes under the tag. There are no more poison pill contracts in the NFL. You have to offer a dollar amount that treats both teams the same. You can't construct a contract which results in team A having to pay a tendered player more than team B, thus preventing team A from matching. You cannot put a term into a contract that prevents or discourages the tagging team from exercising its first refusal rights. It is in the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 It's called collusion. What is called collusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 What is called collusion? They stopped using poison pills even before any changes in the most recent CBA. That's basically the definition of collusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 patman - This is from the CBA: "Disputed Offer Sheet. In the event of any dispute regarding whether a term in an Offer Sheet is or is not a Principal Term that must be matched, including any dispute regarding whether a term is an impermissible poison pill designed to discourage or prohibit the Prior Club from exercising a Right of First Refusal, the dispute shall be presented to the Impartial Arbitrator for expedited resolution under Section 4 below. The Impartial Arbitrator shall identify all of the terms that would have to be matched by the Prior Club, and the Prior Club shall have two days after such decision in which to exercise its Right of First Refusal" I bolded the part above for emphasis. They describe a poison pill term designed to discourage or prohibit the prior club from exercising a right of first refusal, as "impermissible" in the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patman Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 There are no more poison pill contracts in the NFL. You have to offer a dollar amount that treats both teams the same. You can't construct a contract which results in team A having to pay a tendered player more than team B, thus preventing team A from matching. You cannot put a term into a contract that prevents or discourages the tagging team from exercising its first refusal rights. It is in the CBA. Agreed, I read it and it was tightened up a lot. I would still make the offer of 3 and 15. With a first year hit of 7 mill, the pats now have more cap room than the jets, and it would be a good tweak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 so when will we lose snacks ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 so when will we lose snacks ? Why haven't we heard anything about him? Ellis gets signed and no news about Snacks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 9, 2015 Share Posted April 9, 2015 I think a lions player got an offer today and they have 2 days to match I think the market for snacks was in the 4th round pick neighborhood I could be wrong, maybe someone makes on offer tomorrow, but I would think if there was a market we would have heard something by now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Mostro Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 I am happy that other teams do not seem to value him as much as I do so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papz187 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I think a lions player got an offer today and they have 2 days to match I think the market for snacks was in the 4th round pick neighborhood I could be wrong, maybe someone makes on offer tomorrow, but I would think if there was a market we would have heard something by now I thought we tagged him with the 2nd round tender, meaning if another team agrees to a deal and we don't match it then we get there 2nd. Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I thought we tagged him with the 2nd round tender, meaning if another team agrees to a deal and we don't match it then we get there 2nd. Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk right and since so far nobody has come a calling (as far as I know) his value to other teams is less than a 2nd rd pick, probably a 4th in my view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papz187 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 right and since so far nobody has come a calling (as far as I know) his value to other teams is less than a 2nd rd pick, probably a 4th in my view Yeah your probably right. I don't know that much about the tendered process. There must be a date where if no one signs Harrison to a contract he's retained by the Jets for the basic 1 year deal for however many million the 2nd round tender is for. Personally I want Snacks back. He solidifies our line, holding down the NT spot so Mo, Sheldon and co can do their thing. Hopefully the Jets can come to terms on a fair 3 or 4 year deal with him. A 2nd would be nice, but I'd rather take the sure thing and keep a young, talented player that was developed by the Jets from an undrafted camp body to a top 5 player at his position IMO. Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 right and since so far nobody has come a calling (as far as I know) his value to other teams is less than a 2nd rd pick, probably a 4th in my view I don't know if that's what it means. Think it likely means that the Jets will match, and other teams don't want to waste the effort. Snacks is at the OTA, and I saw a brief Eric Allen interview with him. Seems to be in great spirits, so maybe he's good with the situation. Snacks is one of the best NT's in the league. Good NT prospects usually get taken in the first round. IMO Snacks is a monster against the run. he ties up two blockers every play so Richardson, and Wilkerson can make the high light plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 right and since so far nobody has come a calling (as far as I know) his value to other teams is less than a 2nd rd pick, probably a 4th in my view It's a moot point, he's not going anywhere. Especially now with Kenrick gone it'd be stupid to let him walk. And I doubt anybody would be stupid enough to pony up a 2nd round pick to get a player now when they can get him for free after the season. I think teams realize we're not letting him walk regardless, making it pointless to even attempt to sign him. We have nobody to take over for him and you don't risk blowing up your defense and potentially ruin your season just so you can have another draft pick. Maybe on draft day if you know who that pick is going to be and if you can fill a need (Gurley/Gordon, Dorsett, Dupree etc.) but if you're gonna go pick up another DT to close the hole at NT with that pick or if you don't even know who's gonna be available, probably late in round 2, what's the point? Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBallhawk Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I don't know if that's what it means. Think it likely means that the Jets will match, and other teams don't want to waste the effort. Snacks is at the OTA, and I saw a brief Eric Allen interview with him. Seems to be in great spirits, so maybe he's good with the situation. Snacks is one of the best NT's in the league. Good NT prospects usually get taken in the first round. IMO Snacks is a monster against the run. he ties up two blockers every play so Richardson, and Wilkerson can make the high light plays. Pretty much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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