How Would YOU Build A Team ?

[Jetsfan80]

Also I don't think it's cheaper at all to allocate more spending towards running game/defense rather than getting that franchise QB and paying him.

 

When building an OL geared towards running the ball, every spot on the line pretty much needs to be strong.  Meanwhile, it doesn't seem to matter what the teams with franchise QB's do along the line except at LT.  The Patriots give up Logan Mankins and don't miss a beat.  Why?  Because franchise QB's make their OL better.  They can make pre-snap reads and avoid taking big hits.  When was the last time Peyton had OL issues?  Maybe when Jeff Saturday went down with an injury and it took him a few weeks to get his new center up to speed?  When you build a line filled with road-graders you typically have to spend big at the interior line spots, then end up losing those guys to free agency when you can no longer afford them.

 

And of course, with a franchise QB, sometimes you can avoid spending big on defense.  Yes, the Pats finally opened up their wallets on Revis and it paid big dividends.  But mostly you can get by with a "pretty good" defense when you have the QB.  Meanwhile, look how much we've had to spend over the years to keep a strong defense around Sanchez/Geno.  And the minute we stopped spending big we suffered. 

[jack48]

There are 32 NFL teams and maybe 8 or so franchise QBs.  So what are the other 24 teams to do?  That is the real question here.  Not what would they wish for but what are they to do.  How the feck can anyone argue with them building a balanced team.  

 twice in a row with a guy who is NOT a franchise QB. He is very go

Some of you posted just argue for the sake of arguing. 

Well, Seattle has gotten to the SB twice in a row with a guy who is NOT a franchise QB, no matter how much they wind up paying him.  He just is not a franchise QB.  He is pretty damn good, though. Maybe we just need a pretty damn good QB?  And a monster D.

[Smashmouth]

Either way, arguing that it's stupid/pointless to TRY to get a real QB is a moronic point.  Just because it's hard to find QB's doesn't mean you quit at it.  You can't win with a "C" or worse QB in this league anymore.  You at least need a "B" who can demonstrate an ability to reach the "A" level on occasion. 

 

Flacco is the best example of this.  He mostly puts up B and C performances but also found a way to have an 11 TD, 0 INT postseason run.  Geno Smith is not that guy.

Flacco is exactly that guy. So many times we see great well rounded teams with average to below average QB's do well only to come up just short in the playoffs . Its obvious you need a QB to win but its also obvious getting that guy like the ones mentioned is a very rare thing so like LIjetsfan said if you don't have a franchise QB you have to build a well rounded team and you should even if you find that diamond in the rough. Teams just don't give up because they don't have a Franchise QB they adapt or at least the good ones do.

 

Peyton Manning is the perfect example of what a team should not do in respect to the Colts handling of that team over the years. You can even look at John Elway once his team built a defense and had a running game and Elways stats were not world dominating he won 2 SB's why ? because he had Terrell Davis and was no longer the only option. Hand Manning a running game and stop making him throw the ball 50 times a game and I believe you will get the same result.

[Smashmouth]

Well, Seattle has gotten to the SB twice in a row with a guy who is NOT a franchise QB, no matter how much they wind up paying him.  He just is not a franchise QB.  He is pretty damn good, though. Maybe we just need a pretty damn good QB?  And a monster D.

woah wait why is Russell Wilson not a franchise QB ? Cause he doe not throw 50 TD;s a year ?? Fact is Russell Wilson has a well balanced offense that he runs to perfection and makes minimal mistakes plus he plays big when he needs to play big meaning he has the ability to take a team on his shoulders. What more do you want from a QB ?

 

In Russell Wilsons 3 years at QB he has an average QB rating of 98.0.... 2 years over 100 how is that not a franchise QB ?

[Jetsfan80]

Flacco is exactly that guy. So many times we see great well rounded teams with average to below average QB's do well only to come up just short in the playoffs . Its obvious you need a QB to win but its also obvious getting that guy like the ones mentioned is a very rare thing so like LIjetsfan said if you don't have a franchise QB you have to build a well rounded team and you should even if you find that diamond in the rough. Teams just don't give up because they don't have a Franchise QB they adapt or at least the good ones do.

 

Peyton Manning is the perfect example of what a team should not do in respect to the Colts handling of that team over the years. You can even look at John Elway once his team built a defense and had a running game and Elways stats were not world dominating he won 2 SB's why ? because he had Terrell Davis and was no longer the only option. Hand Manning a running game and stop making him throw the ball 50 times a game and I believe you will get the same result.

 

The Colts still won tons of games and got a ring.  So they were doing something right.  I'd take that over the mess we've had over the years.  Stability at the QB position is crucial.  Once you have the QB you can truly set out to build the rest of the roster in the "right way" that you're speaking of. 

 

But if you're like us, where you're struggling with a "D" Quarterback all the time, you'll never be able to build a contending team no matter how hard you try.  It's a limiting factor that will never be resolved.

[T0mShane]

36 posts in and nobody has mentioned the punter.

[Jetsfan80]

Put it this way.  QB play has been a top factor or THE top factor behind every Super Bowl victory of the last 12 years.  So this "QB obsession" you speak of, Smash, is very justified.

 

Yes, the Seahawks of the last 2 years have built a very balanced roster.  But they have the QB too.  Therefore, the evidence dictates you have to devote heavy resources towards finding that franchise guy.  Otherwise you're wasting your time. 

 

Remember, the Seahawks threw a lot of free agent dollars at Matt Flynn the same year they brought in Wilson.  They knew they weren't going anywhere with Charlie Whitehurst.  So that same team you keep talking about as your instance of "balance!" agrees with me on this, not you.  Keep tossing money and draft pick(s) at QB's till you find one.  Don't expect to be able to hide the flaws of your crappy incumbent QB and have sustained success by attempting to acquire better coaching and surrounding talent.  It will never happen.

[jack48]

woah wait why is Russell Wilson not a franchise QB ? Cause he doe not throw 50 TD;s a year ?? Fact is Russell Wilson has a well balanced offense that he runs to perfection and makes minimal mistakes plus he plays big when he needs to play big meaning he has the ability to take a team on his shoulders. What more do you want from a QB ?

 

In Russell Wilsons 3 years at QB he has an average QB rating of 98.0.... 2 years over 100 how is that not a franchise QB ?

when the Seattle D takes its inevitable step backward, we will find out if Russell is a franchise QB.

[Smashmouth]

The Colts still won tons of games and got a ring.  So they were doing something right.  I'd take that over the mess we've had over the years.  Stability at the QB position is crucial.  Once you have the QB you can truly set out to build the rest of the roster in the "right way" that you're speaking of. 

 

But if you're like us, where you're struggling with a "D" Quarterback all the time, you'll never be able to build a contending team no matter how hard you try.  It's a limiting factor that will never be resolved.

No doubt 80 stability at the QB position is extremely important My intent was never to down play that fact.

[HessStation]

First I get one a dem Hall of Fame quarterbacks. Then I find a Head Coach who can cheat properly. Then I take these two middle fingers and wave em at yur mother. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I would start with a Hannibal.  Then I'd send out my best scouts to find a BA Baracus.  Next would be to find a Face.  In the later rounds of the draft I'd find a Murdock.  Then I'd implore my owner to buy a team jet and some sedatives along with a few primo cigars.

 

"How bout them co" -  whoops, scratch that. 

 

"I love it when a plan comes together."

[JustInFudge]

Either way, arguing that it's stupid/pointless to TRY to get a real QB is a moronic point.  Just because it's hard to find QB's doesn't mean you quit at it.  You can't win with a "C" or worse QB in this league anymore.  You at least need a "B" who can demonstrate an ability to reach the "A" level on occasion. 

 

Flacco is the best example of this.  He mostly puts up B and C performances but also found a way to have an 11 TD, 0 INT postseason run.  Geno Smith is not that guy.

 

Running. Game. 

[LIJetsFan]

Flacco is exactly that guy. So many times we see great well rounded teams with average to below average QB's do well only to come up just short in the playoffs . Its obvious you need a QB to win but its also obvious getting that guy like the ones mentioned is a very rare thing so like LIjetsfan said if you don't have a franchise QB you have to build a well rounded team and you should even if you find that diamond in the rough. Teams just don't give up because they don't have a Franchise QB they adapt or at least the good ones do.

 

Peyton Manning is the perfect example of what a team should not do in respect to the Colts handling of that team over the years. You can even look at John Elway once his team built a defense and had a running game and Elways stats were not world dominating he won 2 SB's why ? because he had Terrell Davis and was no longer the only option. Hand Manning a running game and stop making him throw the ball 50 times a game and I believe you will get the same result.

This in bold is the thing I'd prefer to discuss.  For Rex it was ground and pound and it probably would have worked if we had an average QB.  For Chip Kelly is something else.  The point is there is more then one way to skin a cat and for the teams w/o a franchise QB, how do they best skin the cat?  

 

Me personally, I liked Rex's ground and pound with a very good D approach.  Reminds me of when the Rams has Dickerson.  It was a pity Sanchez wasn't even THAT guy.  If Kelly gets Mariota, that will be fun to watch.  So, what's your formula? 

[Smashmouth]

when the Seattle D takes its inevitable step backward, we will find out if Russell is a franchise QB.

jack why should it have to come down to that ? Its the way Seattle is built, they are defense and ball control take away that formula and you have a completely different football team its not all about the QB and your grasping at the point of trying to make it that way.

 

Now if Seattle started stocking up on stud WR's and running a pass first type offense sure the question would come about but they are never going to do that its not their philosophy and probably never will be. If it somehow ever evolved into that Im sure Russel Wilson could adapt because in his first 3 years has already thrown 26,26,and 20 TD's in a conservative ball control offense with minimal mistakes. One could argue Wilsons protection of the football and smarts is the biggest reason the Seahawks have won a SB and should have won another if not for an outrageously dumb call, if we had Russell Wilson in 09 and 10 we very well might be looking at 2 SB victories

[Smashmouth]

This in bold is the thing I'd prefer to discuss.  For Rex it was ground and pound and it probably would have worked if we had an average QB.  For Chip Kelly is something else.  The point is there is more then one way to skin a cat and for the teams w/o a franchise QB, how do they best skin the cat?  

 

Me personally, I liked Rex's ground and pound with a very good D approach.  It was a pity Sanchez wasn't even THAT guy.  If Kelly gets Mariota, that will be fun to watch.  So, what's your formula? 

LIJetsFan my formula is this. I think this team is very close ...The Missing link is obviously the QB no doubt there.

 

I prefer the ball control conservative style offense, not so much ground and pound but not slinging the ball all over the field either ... One similar to the one we ran with Vinny under Parcells that evolved into something pretty explosive at the end of the season in 98. I think we have just about every position in place . We have a Solid O line We have a solid D line we NOW have some real WR's and a very good running game the Secondary will be easily one of the best units in the NFL as may the whole defense.

 

As I have stated before I think if the Jets were able to trade out of the 6th spot and get a Nick Foles (which now looks impossible) we would be contending not just for a playoff spot but a SB if we would have used the picks gained to grab a franchise RB like Gordon in the first round then use the remaining picks gaining speed at the LB position. We would be set. Run Gordon throughout the game as a duel threat then seal the deal running Ivory down teams throats to shut things down in the 4th Quarter.

 

Lets say a guy like Phillp Rivers does come into the equasion, obviously SD would have to want to trade up but lets say they do and we still nab our RB and LB's this team would then also be a SB contender instantly. You have to protect Rivers with a solid running game and have him play to limit his mistakes, since in that scenario we don't need a gun slinger, we would need a manager who could sling it when needed. preferably you run it down their throats and let Rivers benefit from play action and take your shots like that and let our defense just bury teams and let our secondary bury the pass happy teams.

[BroadwayJoe12]

36 posts in and nobody has mentioned the punter.

 

Lazy, over-acting piece of sh*t. I hate your face. 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

LIJetsFan my formula is this. I think this team is very close ...The Missing link is obviously the QB no doubt there.

 

I prefer the ball control conservative style offense, not so much ground and pound but not slinging the ball all over the field either ... One similar to the one we ran with Vinny under Parcells that evolved into something pretty explosive at the end of the season in 98. I think we have just about every position in place . We have a Solid O line We have a solid D line we NOW have some real WR's and a very good running game the Secondary will be easily one of the best units in the NFL as may the whole defense.

 

As I have stated before I think if the Jets were able to trade out of the 6th spot and get a Nick Foles (which now looks impossible) we would be contending not just for a playoff spot but a SB if we would have used the picks gained to grab a franchise RB like Gordon in the first round then use the remaining picks gaining speed at the LB position. We would be set. Run Gordon throughout the game as a duel threat then seal the deal running Ivory down teams throats to shut things down in the 4th Quarter.

 

Lets say a guy like Phillp Rivers does come into the equasion, obviously SD would have to want to trade up but lets say they do and we still nab our RB and LB's this team would then also be a SB contender instantly. You have to protect Rivers with a solid running game and have him play to limit his mistakes, since in that scenario we don't need a gun slinger, we would need a manager who could sling it when needed. preferably you run it down their throats and let Rivers benefit from play action and take your shots like that and let our defense just bury teams and let our secondary bury the pass happy teams.

 

You can pile on as many words as you want. The premise still comes down to we don't have a Porsche so let's ride a donkey instead of settling for a Datsun. It's just a big fail.

[Ex-Rex]

All that matters is the QB hence why your post wasnt worth reading.  

That seems to be the way of the NFL these days. Even a great pass rush can be negated by the quick passing game, which is why CB is such a highly valued position. If you disrupt the patterns you stand a chance to get to the QB. But don't hit him too hard, or too low, or too high - especially Tom Brady. If you are Geno Smith you can get blasted in the head, knees or anywhere else....even late, but not Tommy boy. The QB is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN THE NFL. Don't you watch NFL Network Smashmouth?

[Jet9]

when the Seattle D takes its inevitable step backward, we will find out if Russell is a franchise QB.

He was one bad throw away from back-to-back SBs. He's a franchise QB.

And for the 'Flacco is just OK' crowd, I beleive he has more wins since he's been in the league than any other QB. Sure he has a good team around him. But I just don't like the 'QB is the most important thing EVER!!!' to 'He's OK, He's just surrounded by a good team'. Which is it?

[Jetsfan80]

You can pile on as many words as you want. The premise still comes down to we don't have a Porsche so let's ride a donkey instead of settling for a Datsun. It's just a big fail.

 

Haha.  Perfect response.

[Smashmouth]

You can pile on as many words as you want. The premise still comes down to we don't have a Porsche so let's ride a donkey instead of settling for a Datsun. It's just a big fail.

you you've come to the conclusion this new group that has taken over this team has no plan what so ever for the QB position and built us to win now without it ? I think they are after something and deals may very well be in the works so lets see how that goes. I mean how would you feel if the Phillip Rivers scenario came to be ? That's not exactly a Donkey and Fitz while not a world beater is certainly not the terrible QB play we have seen for the past 5 years not even close

[Smashmouth]

That seems to be the way of the NFL these days. Even a great pass rush can be negated by the quick passing game, which is why CB is such a highly valued position. If you disrupt the patterns you stand a chance to get to the QB. But don't hit him too hard, or too low, or too high - especially Tom Brady. If you are Geno Smith you can get blasted in the head, knees or anywhere else....even late, but not Tommy boy. The QB is the SINGLE MOST IMPORTANT POSITION IN THE NFL. Don't you watch NFL Network Smashmouth?

I'm aware QB is the most Important position never said it was not. All Im saying is you don't have to have a QB who is in the GOAT discussion to be a winning football team if the team is built right/

[Beerfish]

There is no secret formula.  What works for a couple yeas doesn't work the next few years.

 

If starting from scratch this would be my formula.

 

- If there is a 100% bonifide franchise qb there for you take him  (I mean an Andrew Luck kind of player) other wise QB can wait.

- Build the offensive line and defense 1st, especially the oline, when you do get your QB you need him to be protected and also olineman can have long careers.

 

Make sure you have coaches that can adapt their game plan to personnel.  Way too many teams bring in a new regime and they gut the team.  That group gets fired 4 years later and the next guys gut the team.

[Jetsfan80]

I'm aware QB is the most Important position never said it was not. All Im saying is you don't have to have a QB who is in the GOAT discussion to be a winning football team if the team is built right/

 

No one is disagreeing with that.  Wtf, lol.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Stopped reading at focusing on a the passing game and having a HOF QB is a huge mistake.

 

Wow. You completely missed his point. But then that would have required you to actually read what he said. There are around 20-25 teams in the NFL without an elite QB. I guess you're saying they shouldn't bother to show up. I thought the poster was actually stating a reasonable case...

[jack48]

He was one bad throw away from back-to-back SBs. He's a franchise QB.

And for the 'Flacco is just OK' crowd, I beleive he has more wins since he's been in the league than any other QB. Sure he has a good team around him. But I just don't like the 'QB is the most important thing EVER!!!' to 'He's OK, He's just surrounded by a good team'. Which is it?

I said Wilson was very good.  That is what I think he is.  I also said I think you can win with very good.  But when I look at Manning and Elway and Rodgers and Brady, I do not see Russell Wilson.  Sorry.  Would I take Russell on the Jets?  In a heartbeat.

[Smashmouth]

No one is disagreeing with that.  Wtf, lol.

what ?

 

are you like JiF Jr ?

 

little over dramatic for me answering a simple question... no ?

[Jetsfan80]

Making a case for running games. Teams have become obsessed with the Passing game due to guys like Brady, Brees and Manning Rodgers...... and I think that's a huge mistake.

 

Teams can build in the Seattle / Jets of 09 and 10 / Ravens / Cardinals / Steelers mold and win championships they just all seem so caught up in the sexy passing games but if you look at all those Franchise QB's the only time they really win is when the team around them Is built to win they can do it all during the regular season beating inferior teams or middle of the road teams with pure QB dominance but all of that changes drastically in the playoffs. In other words if a guy Like Peyton Manning had a solid running game and ran the ball more you might just see more SB's to his credit. Sure a little less in the way of stats but a better winning formula IMHO. Maybe Brady Wins more SB's and fairs much better in the playoffs because he simply has a better football team so Peyton can have his 55 TD's Ill take the SB with 25 to 30 any day

 

Smash, let's break down why your OP was pointless.

 

1.  Teams have become obsessed with the Passing game due to guys like Brady, Brees and Manning Rodgers...... and I think that's a huge mistake.

 

QB's who have won Super Bowls in the last 12 years:  Brady (3), Roethlisberger (2), Eli Manning (2), Peyton Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Flacco.  2 of those QB's are in GOAT discussions, and the others are all in top 5 or at least top 10 QB discussions every season.

 

 

2.  Teams can build in the Seattle / Jets of 09 and 10 / Ravens / Cardinals / Steelers mold and win championships

 

The 2008 Cardinals and 2009 Jets did not win championships.  And the '08 Cardinals had a former Super Bowl MVP, Kurt Warner, leading the charge.  The '09 Jets neither took their division nor won the AFC.  The other teams you reference, the Steelers and Seahawks, have franchise QB's.  The "mold" you speak of is still dependent on a top-flight QB.

 

 

3.  if you look at all those Franchise QB's the only time they really win is when the team around them Is built to win they can do it all during the regular season beating inferior teams or middle of the road teams with pure QB dominance but all of that changes drastically in the playoffs. In other words if a guy Like Peyton Manning had a solid running game and ran the ball more you might just see more SB's to his credit. Sure a little less in the way of stats but a better winning formula IMHO. Maybe Brady Wins more SB's and fairs much better in the playoffs because he simply has a better football team so Peyton can have his 55 TD's Ill take the SB with 25 to 30 any day

 

This is all drivel.  Yes, the Colts failed to build around Peyton like they should have.  But they still had Peyton.  The Pats could have won more than 4 Super Bowls (lol) if they did more to surround Brady, but they still had Brady and won 4 Super Bowls.

 

 

So what you're really trying to say with this thread is these teams with franchise QB's need to be winning more than they are, and that the correct way to build a team is like the 2009 Jets, who won nothing.  lol.

[Long Island Leprechaun]

Here's an idea. If you're trying to build a car, you don't start with a horse and a carriage.

 

Do you believe it's possible to build a SB team with an average QB? That's the crux of the whole question. If no, then 25 teams can go home now. If yes, how? Even average QB's have areas of strength that can be exploited, but the balance of priorities will change based on what the QB brings to the table. It's a fair topic. Your analogy is frankly idiotic.

[Jetsfan80]

Wow. You completely missed his point. But then that would have required you to actually read what he said. There are around 20-25 teams in the NFL without an elite QB. I guess you're saying they shouldn't bother to show up. I thought the poster was actually stating a reasonable case...

 

He has no case.  There's no universe where its acceptable to stop looking for a great QB just because its hard.  It's a loser mentality.  Smash is trying to say the Colts were stupid for building around Peyton Manning, that Tom Brady should have won more than 4 Super Bowls, and that the 2009 Jets were among the teams doing things the right way.  lol.

[Smashmouth]

I said Wilson was very good.  That is what I think he is.  I also said I think you can win with very good.  But when I look at Manning and Elway and Rodgers and Brady, I do not see Russell Wilson.  Sorry.  Would I take Russell on the Jets?  In a heartbeat.

have you ever looked at Elways stats ? Nothing really special as a matter of fact he's never had as good a year in his entire career as Russell Wilsons 2 years with a 100 Rating hes never even had as good a year as Russell Wilsons rookie year. Elway was clutch no doubt but he never really put up good numbers and he didn't start winning SB's until he got a solid team behind him. He was known more for his dazzling plays and drives from time to time then his actual consistency at the position

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/johnelway/2500547/careerstats

[Smashmouth]

Smash, let's break down why your OP was pointless.

 

1.  Teams have become obsessed with the Passing game due to guys like Brady, Brees and Manning Rodgers...... and I think that's a huge mistake.

 

QB's who have won Super Bowls in the last 12 years:  Brady (3), Roethlisberger (2), Eli Manning (2), Peyton Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson, Flacco.  2 of those QB's are in GOAT discussions, and the others are all in top 5 or at least top 10 QB discussions every season.

 

 

2.  Teams can build in the Seattle / Jets of 09 and 10 / Ravens / Cardinals / Steelers mold and win championships

 

The 2008 Cardinals and 2009 Jets did not win championships.  And the '08 Cardinals had a former Super Bowl MVP, Kurt Warner, leading the charge.  The '09 Jets neither took their division nor won the AFC.  The other teams you reference, the Steelers and Seahawks, have franchise QB's.  The "mold" you speak of is still dependent on a top-flight QB.

 

 

3.  if you look at all those Franchise QB's the only time they really win is when the team around them Is built to win they can do it all during the regular season beating inferior teams or middle of the road teams with pure QB dominance but all of that changes drastically in the playoffs. In other words if a guy Like Peyton Manning had a solid running game and ran the ball more you might just see more SB's to his credit. Sure a little less in the way of stats but a better winning formula IMHO. Maybe Brady Wins more SB's and fairs much better in the playoffs because he simply has a better football team so Peyton can have his 55 TD's Ill take the SB with 25 to 30 any day

 

This is all drivel.  Yes, the Colts failed to build around Peyton like they should have.  But they still had Peyton.  The Pats could have won more than 4 Super Bowls (lol) if they did more to surround Brady, but they still had Brady and won 4 Super Bowls.

 

 

So what you're really trying to say with this thread is these teams with franchise QB's need to be winning more than they are, and that the correct way to build a team is like the 2009 Jets, who won nothing.  lol.

you are a buffoon

[Jetsfan80]

you are a buffoon

 

Haha.  Interesting case Smash.  I, too, feel like it would be cool to win without a great QB.  Groundbreaking stuff. 

[Smashmouth]

He has no case.  There's no universe where its acceptable to stop looking for a great QB just because its hard.  It's a loser mentality.  Smash is trying to say the Colts were stupid for building around Peyton Manning, that Tom Brady should have won more than 4 Super Bowls, and that the 2009 Jets were among the teams doing things the right way.  lol.

See this is why you should actually read things before you post and then try reading what you write back to yourself so you can avoid being a goofball. Where in hell did I EVER say we should not look for a franchise QB ?????? Are you reading what JIF said a rolling with that nonsense ?

 

I NEVER said the colts were wrong to build around Peyton manning you fool all I said was they took the wrong approach. GO READ

 

I swear you 2 can't possibly be this dense that you continue to put words in my mouth that don't exist. unbelieveable

 

Stop embarrassing yourself please

[Jetsfan80]

See this is why you should actually read things before you post and then try reading what you write back to yourself so you can avoid being a goofball. Where in hell did I EVER say we should not look for a franchise QB ?????? Are you reading what JIF said a rolling with that nonsense ?

 

I NEVER said the colts were wrong to build arounf Peyton manning you fool all I said was they took the wrong approach. GO READ

 

I swear you 2 can't possibly be this dense that you continue to put words in my mouth that don't exist. unbelieveable

 

You also argued the Patriots took the wrong approach too.  4 Super Bowls.  Wrong approach.  lmao.