JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Wow. You completely missed his point. But then that would have required you to actually read what he said. There are around 20-25 teams in the NFL without an elite QB. I guess you're saying they shouldn't bother to show up. I thought the poster was actually stating a reasonable case... You can show up and try to be great or balanced in a bunch of different areas but it wont matter because you dont have a QB QB's who made the playoffs: Tom Brady - HOF, SB winner - advanced to SB Aaron Rodgers - HOF, SB winner - advanced to NFCCG Peyton Manning - HOF, SB winner Andrew Luck - ???? - advanced to to AFCCG Russell Wilson - SB winner, HOF? - advanced to SB Big Ben - HOF, SB winner Joe Flacco - SB winner, HOF? advanced to the next round Cam Netwon QB's who didnt advance: Ryan Lindley Matt Stafford Andrew Dalton Big Ben Pretty basic, really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Lonelyhearts Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 See this is why you should actually read things before you post and then try reading what you write back to yourself so you can avoid being a goofball. Where in hell did I EVER say we should not look for a franchise QB ?????? Are you reading what JIF said a rolling with that nonsense ? I NEVER said the colts were wrong to build arounf Peyton manning you fool all I said was they took the wrong approach. GO READ I swear you 2 can't possibly be this dense that you continue to put words in my mouth that don't exist. unbelieveable You keep telling us what your point isn't. Any chance at all that you might arrive at what it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The reason the franchise QB's you speak of sometimes fail is because they go up against a little better teams who also have franchise QB's. But they're in the mix to win a title every single season, whereas ever 4-5 years we have to fire everyone and start from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You also argued the Patriots took the wrong approach too. 4 Super Bowls. Wrong approach. lmao. Run. Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You keep telling us what your point isn't. Any chance at all that you might arrive at what it is? I think he's saying you need a franchise QB, but you need to build around him the right way. The 2009 Jets were built the right way but were just missing the franchise QB. See? All makes sense now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 You also argued the Patriots took the wrong approach too. 4 Super Bowls. Wrong approach. lmao. I argued the Patriots took the wrong approach ? Contrary I said they took the correct approach and that's why Brady has 4 SB's and Manning has 1 go read and stop making sh*t up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I argued the Patriots took the wrong approach ? Contrary I said they took the correct approach and that's why Brady has 4 SB's and Manning has 1 go read and stop making sh*t up Manning had to face Brady. Throw in Big Ben and 3 franchise QB's have dominated this conference for over a decade. Wrong approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The reason the franchise QB's you speak of sometimes fail is because they go up against a little better teams who also have franchise QB's. But they're in the mix to win a title every single season, whereas ever 4-5 years we have to fire everyone and start from scratch. Basically the only time the better QB didnt win in the playoffs was Manning vs. Luck (which might be a swinging in Luck's direction these days) and Wilson beating Rodgers (which was a complete fluke). You could argue Flacco over Big Ben too...but both have shown they can be lights out in the playoffs...so that might be more of a wash than we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 You keep telling us what your point isn't. Any chance at all that you might arrive at what it is? If you want to troll with the other 2 idiots be my guest but I've made it clear what my point is you have made it clear you've read nothing . if you have no ideas or nothing constructive to offer the thread then please run along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Basically the only time the better QB didnt win in the playoffs was Manning vs. Luck (which might be a swinging in Luck's direction these days) and Wilson beating Rodgers (which was a complete fluke). You could argue Flacco over Big Ben too...but both have shown they can be lights out the playoffs...so that might be more of a wash than we think. True, but I also assume those teams all had franchise RB's too. I'm having trouble remembering their names though. Lynch, and..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 True, but I also assume those teams all had franchise RB's too. I'm having trouble remembering their names though. Lynch, and..... Run. Game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Basically the only time the better QB didnt win in the playoffs was Manning vs. Luck (which might be a swinging in Luck's direction these days) and Wilson beating Rodgers (which was a complete fluke). You could argue Flacco over Big Ben too...but both have shown they can be lights out in the playoffs...so that might be more of a wash than we think. The main thing is JIF when you have a bunch of good to great QB's competing in the playoffs the Better TEAM usually wins. Rodgers has always been great and will always win games he went further this year because he finally got some support that he's been missing since he won the SB and that's a solid running game which makes him that much better which is scary. They will be a team to watch for sure based on that fact. All these great QB's will win games but weaknesses on their teams usually surface in the playoffs so its not all about the QB even though its the most Important Position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Sign as many dog-killers and boar-hunters as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The main thing is JIF when you have a bunch of good to great QB's competing in the playoffs the Better TEAM usually wins. Rodgers has always been great and will always win games he went further this year because he finally got some support that he's been missing since he won the SB and that's a solid running game which makes him that much better which is scary. They will be a team to watch for sure based on that fact. All these great QB's will win games but weaknesses on their teams usually surface in the playoffs so its not all about the QB even though its the most Important Position STOP THE PRESS!!!! THE BETTER TEAM WILL TYPICALLY WIN THE GAME????? WTF????? SINCE WHEN??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New York Mick Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I'd hire a GM then go and get drunk and pick up hookers all over Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 STOP THE PRESS!!!! THE BETTER TEAM WILL TYPICALLY WIN THE GAME????? WTF????? SINCE WHEN??? Since you've learned how to read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 There are 32 NFL teams and maybe 8 or so franchise QBs. So what are the other 24 teams to do? That is the real question here. Not what would they wish for but what are they to do. How the feck can anyone argue with them building a balanced team. Some of you posted just argue for the sake of arguing. 100% correct. With so few ACTUAL franchise QB those that are not lucky enough to have one must build a team differently. Maybe its a matter of a good offensive system and a guy that can fit that system and run it.Then focus on defense and a kick ass running game. best move of the Jets this off season is the focus on the O line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Sign as many dog-killers and boar-hunters as possible. mmmmmmm? Pre-game barbecues? I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I stopped reading after a very stupid comment. Why continue? Want my opinion? Find an elite QB because nothing else matters without one unless you're looking to be that team that sneaks in once every 10 years. Once you find a QB. Build inside out. Strong OL. Strong DL. Then go to the passing game. WR's and Corners. The hard part is finding the QB. Guess why you havent seen the Jets in the SB since Joe Namath? Game manager? **** that....you had your boy Chad with everything he needed around him, how did he do? All that matters is the QB hence why your post wasnt worth reading. Sorry Raiders went the Superbowl with a Game Manager as did the Giants (not with Eli) and several other teams. I think you missed his point (by not reading lol) but he is just saying you can have a balanced team and be successful without a "franchise qb" if all the other parts are there. And guess what? If you have that kind of balance when you finally find that QB will be that much better. I do understand your point because we have not prioritized finding that qb nearly enough as a franchise. Lets face it, the Sanchez debacle is what has really set this franchise back because he was supposed to be the one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 kiss the commish's ass and cheat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Repeat: There is no formula. These iron clad formulas last until the next team totally debunks and wins the trophy. The giants won two superbowls and the formula was to draft all pass rushers. Pats win some super bowls it is all about TE mismatches or slot mismatches, running game is not important. They fail for a few years and then it is play defense and have a running game, oh also draft large corner backs. Get good players, the best you can get, tailor your team to their strengths whether it be passing or running or defense or whatever, make the playoffs, get hot in the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Murdering tight ends and ball boys who know how to quickly deflate footballs. That's where I would start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Raiders went the Superbowl with a Game Manager as did the Giants (not with Eli) and several other teams. I think you missed his point (by not reading lol) but he is just saying you can have a balanced team and be successful without a "franchise qb" if all the other parts are there. And guess what? If you have that kind of balance when you finally find that QB will be that much better. I do understand your point because we have not prioritized finding that qb nearly enough as a franchise. Lets face it, the Sanchez debacle is what has really set this franchise back because he was supposed to be the one.... Rich Gannon attempted 618 passes (most in the NFL), completed 67% (2nd most in the NFL behind none other than Chad Pennington), 4,700 yards (most in the NFL), 26 TD's (3rd in the NFL). He was the MVP of league. He was far from a game manager. He was a gunslinger those years in OAK. And did you ever look at Eli's stats in the playoffs during those years? He was lights out. Eli is the antithesis of a game manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Repeat: There is no formula. These iron clad formulas last until the next team totally debunks and wins the trophy. The giants won two superbowls and the formula was to draft all pass rushers. Pats win some super bowls it is all about TE mismatches or slot mismatches, running game is not important. They fail for a few years and then it is play defense and have a running game, oh also draft large corner backs. Get good players, the best you can get, tailor your team to their strengths whether it be passing or running or defense or whatever, make the playoffs, get hot in the playoffs. I think this pretty much sums it up. And it's what keeps every team trying to stay in the hunt -- maximizing what they can do well with what they have, staying healthy, and hoping they're in the zone at the right time. How on earth could Seattle have beaten Denver's offensive juggernaut last year, led by a HOF QB, if that wasn't true? Or the Pats have beaten the Greatest Show on Turf? Or the Giants do the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Raiders went the Superbowl with a Game Manager as did the Giants (not with Eli) and several other teams. I think you missed his point (by not reading lol) but he is just saying you can have a balanced team and be successful without a "franchise qb" if all the other parts are there. And guess what? If you have that kind of balance when you finally find that QB will be that much better. I do understand your point because we have not prioritized finding that qb nearly enough as a franchise. Lets face it, the Sanchez debacle is what has really set this franchise back because he was supposed to be the one.... Rich Gannon attempted 618 passes (most in the NFL), completed 67% (2nd most in the NFL behind none other than Chad Pennington), 4,700 yards (most in the NFL), 26 TD's (3rd in the NFL). He was the MVP of league. He was far from a game manager. He was a gunslinger those years in OAK. And did you ever look at Eli's stats in the playoffs during those years? He was lights out. Eli is the antithesis of a game manager. Gannon? What about his Giants comment? Who does he mean? Kerry Collins was a riverboat chuck and duck gambler. Did he mean Simms? Hostetler? That was 100 years ago and that is closer to the Ravens argument than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Rich Gannon attempted 618 passes (most in the NFL), completed 67% (2nd most in the NFL behind none other than Chad Pennington), 4,700 yards (most in the NFL), 26 TD's (3rd in the NFL). He was the MVP of league. He was far from a game manager. He was a gunslinger those years in OAK. And did you ever look at Eli's stats in the playoffs during those years? He was lights out. Eli is the antithesis of a game manager. Did you just say gunslinger and Rich Gannon in the same sentence? He was a short passing expert who thrived on the YAC of his receivers and backs. He had a career year and was a perfect fit for that system but no one would confuse him with being a franchise qb. Regarding the Giants I am not talking about the Eli Manning Giants but the 2008 Superbowl team with Kerry Collins; yes Kerry ******* Collins. Then there is the Jake Delholme Panthers etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Did you just say gunslinger and Rich Gannon in the same sentence? He was a short passing expert who thrived on the YAC of his receivers and backs. He had a career year and was a perfect fit for that system but no one would confuse him with being a franchise qb. Regarding the Giants I am not talking about the Eli Manning Giants but the 2008 Superbowl team with Kerry Collins; yes Kerry ******* Collins. Then there is the Jake Delholme Panthers etc. None of this post matters because Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetBlue Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 None of this post matters because Yep!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Making a case for running games. Teams have become obsessed with the Passing game due to guys like Brady, Brees and Manning Rodgers...... and I think that's a huge mistake. Those guys can be beat by solid defense and a great running game, and lets face it, the odds of getting a player like Brady, Brees or Manning comes around once every ten years. Brady's game is basically an extension of a running game because he throws a hell of a lot of short precise passes designed to gain in the 5 to 10 yard range as does Peyton Manning.... Brees throws about 150 to 190 passes per year to his RB's. They also throw A LOT of very short TD passes rather than trying to ram the ball into the end zone the way teams like Seattle do. (that's why that SB call was such a mystery to me and everyone else for that matter). i would build it out of bacon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 None of this post matters because now those babies are properly inflated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTM Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Repeat: There is no formula. These iron clad formulas last until the next team totally debunks and wins the trophy. Incorrect. The formula is maximizing opportunities to win it all in a league with single elimination playoff format. The best way to maximize opportunities is to get a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 i would build it out of bacon I would never miss a homegame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Did you just say gunslinger and Rich Gannon in the same sentence? He was a short passing expert who thrived on the YAC of his receivers and backs. He had a career year and was a perfect fit for that system but no one would confuse him with being a franchise qb. Regarding the Giants I am not talking about the Eli Manning Giants but the 2008 Superbowl team with Kerry Collins; yes Kerry ******* Collins. Then there is the Jake Delholme Panthers etc. you're 100 % correct on Gannon that's exactly how they ran that offense. West coast offense Wa;sh/Montana made famous that so many teams run variations of including the Patriots But we need to clear up exactly what a franchise QB really is : Its not based on stats or what other people perceive a franchise QB to be its what an organization thinks their franchise QB should be that they can build around . So if this franchise QB lasts in an organization for lets say 10 to 15 years he's then considered a franchise QB for that particular organization. If you want to talk elite QB then that's a different story that's when your talking about the Rodgers/Mannings/Bradys/Brees of the world .... As an example while I don't think a guy like Matt Ryan is in that elite category of the players I just mentioned nor is Matt Stafford they both are certainly franchise QB's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Incorrect. The formula is maximizing opportunities to win it all in a league with single elimination playoff format. The best way to maximize opportunities is to get a franchise QB. 'Franchise QB' is label that is tossed around imo that doesn't have as much meaning as people would like to think. What makes a franchise Qb a franchise QB? Eli Manning Brad Johnson Trent Dilfer Joe Flacco Then we have guys truly perceived to be franchise QBs such as peyton manning and rogers who have won it once. Totally against popular opinion I don't think Russell wilson is as magnificent as he has been touted. Stick him on the Jets and see how he does having to carry the load more. Hell Mark Sanchez was one step away from being declared a 'franchise QB' Without decent support a lot of 'franchise' guys never would have been 'franchise guys' Put Aaron rogers on Houston starting day one with a horrid team and oline and David Carr sitting behind Favre for 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Did you just say gunslinger and Rich Gannon in the same sentence? He was a short passing expert who thrived on the YAC of his receivers and backs. He had a career year and was a perfect fit for that system but no one would confuse him with being a franchise qb. Regarding the Giants I am not talking about the Eli Manning Giants but the 2008 Superbowl team with Kerry Collins; yes Kerry ******* Collins. Then there is the Jake Delholme Panthers etc. 3rd in the league in yards per completion, 1st in yards per game. Maybe he wasnt a down field bomber but he was slinging it all over the field, more and better than anyone else in the league that season. He was the MVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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