Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 No, I'm saying that Palmers career would be a pipe dream for Mariota, and that Palmer had a sh*t ton more talent than Mariota. Not arguing your Heisman theory at all, just that saying Mariota will follow Palmers. Mariota will be a career backup at best. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Ah. Then I think we are closer to agreeing than you may realize. My actual prediction for this year's 2 Heisman QB's is that the very best we can expect out of them is that Mariota's career will parallel Palmer's, and Winston's career will parallel Testaverde's. What I think is the most likely outcome though is that both will simply be total busts, just like the vast majority of Heisman QB's who have come before them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Could it be that Hiesman Trophy winning QBs are selected high in the first round, so they go to awful, often mismanaged teams? Nah, couldn't be that. Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk Could be. But does it make a difference? You select a Heisman QB, you better expect he will be a bust. The overwhelming history says he will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Could it be that Hiesman Trophy winning QBs are selected high in the first round, so they go to awful, often mismanaged teams? Nah, couldn't be that. Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk For 30 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 No one was looking at Mariota for his combine numbers ...hes the same guy he was before the combine and I guarantee no one is using the combine or even his pro day as much of an evaluating factor. The biggest factor in evaluating a QB is his play on the field and his smarts in the interview room. That's pretty much it. LB's and WR's move up in the draft due to the combine nonsense QB's never do And what about his play on the field? Have you ever seen Mariota when he had to make 2 or 3 reads against a semi-capable defense? It's not pretty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Could it be that Hiesman Trophy winning QBs are selected high in the first round, so they go to awful, often mismanaged teams? Nah, couldn't be that. Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk System offenses like Spurrier's fun n' gun or the Oregon offense usually dominate college. The qb's who normally run those offenses have designed plays where they make 1 read and the defenses they face are too slow or weak to stop it. That's the real reason most qb's who win the heisman have sucked in the nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 This will be me: I don't want him either...but can't hate the pick with Gailey on board to work with him. Also having FItz on the roster means not being 1-6 with the fans demanding he be rushed in to action too early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTL Jet Fan Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Unless we trade up for hime he wont be there at 6 so no worries to those who dont want him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 And what about his play on the field? Have you ever seen Mariota when he had to make 2 or 3 reads against a semi-capable defense? It's not pretty. For starters, watch the tape of the national championship game.Ohio State made him look like a freshman. He was irrelevant in the biggest game of his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I don't want him either...but can't hate the pick with Gailey on board to work with him. Also having FItz on the roster means not being 1-6 with the fans demanding he be rushed in to action too early. I guess I'm there, too. I'd just have to put my faith in the hands of Gailey, Bowles, and Maccagnan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 fyi Mariota/Gruden on at 7pm on ESPN 2 There's a thread on this now...but did you watch? I think I officially dont want him after that show. He's just too passive. Too timid. There's just nothing about his personality that screams NFL QB. I just dont see him commanding a lockerroom. And the film breakdown on how he handles the Football...sooooo scary! He will get killed in the NFL. And this is kind of stupid and wont make too much sense to some people, but he grew up in Hawaii and chose to be a body/boggie boarder vs. a surfer because he's too lazy to stand? OR he's too scared/not skilled enough. Huge red flag. haha You dont get respect if you cant stand up. I came away very impressed with Hundley and I'm still meh on Bryce Petty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I guess I'm there, too. I'd just have to put my faith in the hands of Gailey, Bowles, and Maccagnan. Yep...no other choice but Gailey has done enough with young QB's to leave room for optimism and we have a competent QB on the roster to take some of the pressure off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section314 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 There's a thread on this now...but did you watch? I think I officially dont want him after that show. He's just too passive. Too timid. There's just nothing about his personality that screams NFL QB. I just dont see him commanding a lockerroom. And the film breakdown on how he handles the Football...sooooo scary! He will get killed in the NFL. And this is kind of stupid and wont make too much sense to some people, but he grew up in Hawaii and chose to be a body/boggie boarder vs. a surfer because he's too lazy to stand? OR he's too scared/not skilled enough. Huge red flag. haha You dont get respect if you cant stand up. I came away very impressed with Hundley and I'm still meh on Bryce Petty. When is Grayson on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I guess I'm there, too. I'd just have to put my faith in the hands of Gailey, Bowles, and Maccagnan. Thats where I was before I saw that Gruden camp thingy last night. The way he carries himself and the Football...its so F'ing scary. When is Grayson on? http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2015/03/25/espn-to-air-garrett-graysons-workouts-at-jon-gruden-qb-camp-7-times/33449/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 ...You select a Heisman QB, you better expect he will be a bust. The overwhelming history says he will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 This will be me: I don't understand how dressing up like a nazi will help but as you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 GASP. Nawrocki on Jameis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I don't understand how dressing up like a nazi will help but as you do. I did a spit take on this one... lolz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 so mayock just changed his rankings to put mariota #1 QB according to NFL network's bottom line scroll this is probably just to generate interest, clicks and ratings, but if it's from film study, it's a thing that makes you go hmmmmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 Actually, I don't see where I misunderstood your post. You seemed to say Palmer was well on his way to greatness, and may have very well won a SB, if only he hadn't been injured. And I'm saying I'm sure there are reasons every one of the Heisman QB's since Plunkett have failed to win a SB, for 31 years in a row now. The main point is that Heisman QB's as a group are pretty much a failure in the NFL. And Mariota ought to be expected to fail, just like all the other Heisman QB's have failed. And yes, Winston ought to be expected to fail as well, for the same reason. I have to assume by this logic that you are saying it is impossible for the Jets,Browns,Lions Texans, Jags, Falcons, Vikes, Bills,Bengals,Eagles,Chargers,Titans,panthers,Cards, and Seahawks to ever win a Super Bowl. Oooops Seahawks won last year didn't they Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetscrazey Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 People are too caught up in rankings. The truth of it all is this: Winston: A guy who can come in and contribute in year 1. Knows pro style system which is a rarity in college QBs nowadays. Has a knack for winning. Throws risky passes which lead to some interceptions. Off the field risks are there. Mariota: Lower floor than Winston, but higher ceiling. Needs a redshirt year on the bench to learn the NFL but once he gets it, could be very very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I have to assume by this logic that you are saying it is impossible for the Jets,Browns,Lions Texans, Jags, Falcons, Vikes, Bills,Bengals,Eagles,Chargers,Titans,panthers,Cards, and Seahawks to ever win a Super Bowl. Oooops Seahawks won last year didn't they OK Mr green, you'll have to explain what you are talking about. I am talking about Heisman QB's failing to win the SB, which none of them has done for the past 31 years in a row. So, what are you talking about??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I don't understand how dressing up like a nazi will help but as you do. We each grieve in our own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 OK Mr green, you'll have to explain what you are talking about. I am talking about Heisman QB's failing to win the SB, which none of them has done for the past 31 years in a row. So, what are you talking about??? heisman QB's are typically ruined by being forced to start for crap teams. I wouldn't stay away from a heisman winning QB but I would try to avoid ruining him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 OK Mr green, you'll have to explain what you are talking about. I am talking about Heisman QB's failing to win the SB, which none of them has done for the past 31 years in a row. So, what are you talking about??? With the exception of the Jets (a very long time ago) none of these teams have ever won a Super Bowl. If it is proof that a Heisman winning QB, can't ever win a Super bowl, simply because it hasn't happened in 31 years, then it must also be proof that if a team hasn't ever won a Super Bowl in 45 years. It must also be impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 heisman QB's are typically ruined by being forced to start for crap teams. I wouldn't stay away from a heisman winning QB but I would try to avoid ruining him And so they've all been ruined for 31 years in a row? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 And so they've all been ruined for 31 years in a row? yes are you suggesting there is a cause and effect between the trophy and performance ? some sort of curse or something ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 With the exception of the Jets (a very long time ago) none of these teams have ever won a Super Bowl. If it is proof that a Heisman winning QB, can't ever win a Super bowl, simply because it hasn't happened in 31 years, then it must also be proof that if a team hasn't ever won a Super Bowl in 45 years. It must also be impossible. I never said that winning the Heisman is proof that a QB can't win a SB. Staubach and Plunkett show that they can. But history does bear out that it is near certain that a Heisman QB won't win it. And even forgetting the SB, the virtual nonexistence of a Heisman QB who is a true franchise QB is strong evidence of it. The only Heisman QB I have seen play in the NFL who I would consider a true franchise QB is Staubach. And I have been watching NFL QB's for some 40 years. Any other QB's who won the Heisman who you would care to point to as a true franchise QB? For the team who drafted him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I never said that winning the Heisman is proof that a QB can't win a SB. Staubach and Plunkett show that they can. But history does bear out that it is near certain that a Heisman QB won't win it. And even forgetting the SB, the virtual nonexistence of a Heisman QB who is a true franchise QB is strong evidence of it. The only Heisman QB I have seen play in the NFL who I would consider a true franchise QB is Staubach. And I have been watching NFL QB's for some 40 years. Any other QB's who won the Heisman who you would care to point to as a true franchise QB? For the team who drafted him? staubach was 25 years old when he got to the nfl. if he had to start when he was 21 he probably would have been ruined as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 yes are you suggesting there is a cause and effect between the trophy and performance ? some sort of curse or something ? I have already said I do not have a theoretical explanation why the Heisman produces so many QB's who can't play very well in the NFL. But the lack of any true franchise QB's who won the Heisman (Staubach is the one exception I can think of) is strong evidence in support of the idea, in my view. If you would like to suggest other Heisman winners you consider to have been, or are, true franchise QB's I would be happy to be enlightened. Or perhaps provide evidence they really aren't true franchise QB's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 For reference, QBs who have won the Heisman since 1990... Ty Detmer, Torretta, Charlie Ward, Weurffel, Weinke, Crouch, Palmer, Jason White, Leinert, Troy Smith, Tebow, Bradford, Cam, RGIII, Manzeil, Winston, Marriota. In fairness, not all of these guys went in the first round and/or started right away. Then there's this... Winning in the NFL is rare for Heisman QBs Since 1950, 27 quarterbacks have been selected as the Heisman Trophy winner. Of those 27, only 20 started at quarterback in at least one NFL game. Among those 20, only four quarterbacks have a winning record in the NFL (regular season). Robert Griffin III is the only Heisman winner with a career passer rating over 90 in the NFL (90.8). Since 1950, the combined NFL winning percentage for quarterbacks who won the Heisman Trophy is under .500 (480-501-4, .489). http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap2000000297440 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I have already said I do not have a theoretical explanation why the Heisman produces so many QB's who can't play very well in the NFL. But the lack of any true franchise QB's who won the Heisman (Staubach is the one exception I can think of) is strong evidence in support of the idea, in my view. If you would like to suggest other Heisman winners you consider to have been, or are, true franchise QB's I would be happy to be enlightened. Or perhaps provide evidence they really aren't true franchise QB's. its easy. they get drafted early to crap teams. you are also using a ridiculous standard of winning a SB. how many franchises have won in those magical 31 years ? 12 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 staubach was 25 years old when he got to the nfl. if he had to start when he was 21 he probably would have been ruined as well And so, why don't all the non-Heisman QB's who we can all agree are true franchise QB's also get similarly ruined? For example, would you agree the Pats were a crap team the day Brady took over for Bledsoe? What saved Brady from ruination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clementi49 Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 I'm so glad this post is here. And so defiant. I just hope the jets organization sees this forum before it's too late... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 its easy. they get drafted early to crap teams. you are also using a ridiculous standard of winning a SB. how many franchises have won in those magical 31 years ? 12 ? I have broadened the consideration to all QB's who are, or were, true franchise QB's. How many Heisman winners can you name who fall into that category? Staubach is the only one I can think of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 8, 2015 Share Posted April 8, 2015 And so, why don't all the non-Heisman QB's who we can all agree are true franchise QB's also get similarly ruined? For example, would you agree the Pats were a crap team the day Brady took over for Bledsoe? What saved Brady from ruination? you are simply looking at a very small sample. there can only be one heisman winner in any given year, and they aren't always QB's, but they almost always go to crap teams you might as well argue never take a QB with a last name that starts with a vowel from a team with a mascot that is a predator of small mammals until you provide a cause and effect its just silly superstition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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