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Ranking the pass rushers


Dinamite

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It is very possible #6 will be a OLB/DE.    There seems to be a lot of different opinions on this year's crop.  Although they seem promising, there are various issues withe each of them.  Assuming the jets, even if they trade down, address this position within the first pick, what is your ranking (for this position only)?

 

Here is an attempt.

 

1- Dante Fowler (seems like most complete)

2- Shane Ray (potentially solid pass rusher, but maybe not spectacular)

3- Vic Beasley (lots of potential, but raw is scary given high bust potential of position)

 

the other 2 I am not sure belong in the top 15

4- Dupree - don't know mch about him, but seems to be a potentially good project, but later in the draft.

5- Gregory - Ranked last because the pot bust scares me because he is not using his head about using (before combine, common) and it is easy to fall back into that behavior (see josh gordon)

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Here's what I find wrong with this discussion. You posed a question about who maybe the best Pass rusher then follow it up by stating that Fowler seems like the most complete.

 

A pass rusher plays mostly OLB or DE depending on the scheme and makes his bones by getting to the QB. There's nothing complete about that .

 

 

Fowler is a 34 OLBer  who could line up at DE in a 43 and make a living, but he's not a Pass Rusher.

 

Dupree is the same type player with less fanfare.

 

Gregory is the type of player that get folks fired or make them look like heroes.

 

Beasley is a 43 Will Backer who's best moving forward. If protected properly by a defensive line, he could wreck havoc 

 

Ray is a Pass rusher, it's what he does. He can drop in space and make a play, but what he does best is get after QBs.

 

 

There's nothing complete about any of these players, but a smart DC can put them all in position to make plays.

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Here's what I find wrong with this discussion. You posed a question about who maybe the best Pass rusher then follow it up by stating that Fowler seems like the most complete.

 

A pass rusher plays mostly OLB or DE depending on the scheme and makes his bones by getting to the QB. There's nothing complete about that .

 

 

Fowler is a 34 OLBer  who could line up at DE in a 43 and make a living, but he's not a Pass Rusher.

 

Dupree is the same type player with less fanfare.

 

Gregory is the type of player that get folks fired or make them look like heroes.

 

Beasley is a 43 Will Backer who's best moving forward. If protected properly by a defensive line, he could wreck havoc 

 

Ray is a Pass rusher, it's what he does. He can drop in space and make a play, but what he does best is get after QBs.

 

 

There's nothing complete about any of these players, but a smart DC can put them all in position to make plays.

 

 

Fair enough, I should rephrase my wording to say which of these OLB/DE prospects would be the best fits for the jets.   

 

 

You bring up good points - and it is possible that beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in this case McGagganan and Bowles.  Whoever they see as the best fit/best potential for what they want to do.

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Here's what I find wrong with this discussion. You posed a question about who maybe the best Pass rusher then follow it up by stating that Fowler seems like the most complete.

 

A pass rusher plays mostly OLB or DE depending on the scheme and makes his bones by getting to the QB. There's nothing complete about that .

 

 

Fowler is a 34 OLBer  who could line up at DE in a 43 and make a living, but he's not a Pass Rusher.

 

Dupree is the same type player with less fanfare.

 

Gregory is the type of player that get folks fired or make them look like heroes.

 

Beasley is a 43 Will Backer who's best moving forward. If protected properly by a defensive line, he could wreck havoc 

 

Ray is a Pass rusher, it's what he does. He can drop in space and make a play, but what he does best is get after QBs.

 

 

There's nothing complete about any of these players, but a smart DC can put them all in position to make plays.

 

Each of these guys sounds less than perfect for what we want to do, or at least maybe too risky to draft at 6.  Isn't that a pretty good argument for drafting another position at 6?

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Each of these guys sounds less than perfect for what we want to do, or at least maybe too risky to draft at 6.  Isn't that a pretty good argument for drafting another position at 6?

I tend to agree. If the Jets stay at 6, I think the choice should be :

 

Amari cooper or  Brandon Scherff

 

 

Cooper is a better next yr and future fit than either White  or  Parker even thou I think both player are better prospects than Cooper. 

 

Scherff starts  on our OL next season for certain at either of the OGs positions or RT. 

 

 

If we're held bent on taking a Pass rusher in the 1st, my choice is Shane Ray. If I could somehow work out a trade to get a later 1st and another 2nd round pick this yr and a 1st next yr, my targets change to Gurley , an OT( Scherff, Collins, Peat) and Danielle Hunter the DE/OLBer from LSU . I have options,

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Why is Scherff any less risky than the pass rushers?

 

Warmack and Cooper from only one year ago, guards drafted early who have not set the world on fire.

 

If you don't like the pass rushers this year you never will because this is actually a year with some good alternatives.  People on here are still afraid of gholston.

 

I'll be happy with a number of olb picks (not Gregory) and just as happy if not happier with a Wr pick (White, Cooper in that order).  I'd be upset if we took Scherff.  I'd be a tad upset if we took Mariota but could understand the pick. 

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My ranks:

 

Fowler

Dupree

Beasley

Ray

Gregory

 

I dont think Fowler will be there.  I'd be good with Dupree but have my concerns. 

 

I think the draft will fall in such a manner that the Jets will have their choice of either White or Cooper and I'm really starting to lean that way.

 

I think the draft goes 1. Winston 2. Mariota 3. Williams 4. Cooper/White 5. Fowler 6. Cooper/White

 

And I'm ok with that...I'd prefer Cooper. White scares me a little bit...but I wouldnt be upset with the pick. 

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I think a lot on here are seriously under-rating Gregory; he's at least 10 lbs lighter than the others (and between 25 and 35 lbs lighter than Fowler or Dupree), with more length than any of them, yet his power is comparable also to any of them at the lighter weight. For someone so long and lean you'd expect him to be easily blown off at the point of attack but that just isn't the case - he's surprisingly good vs the run.

 

Beasley, Fowler and Dupree are closed to maxed out as to what they will be in the NFL, there isn't much upside in those three, having said that all three should have solid NFL careers, barring injury. Ray has an awesome biography as to where he's come from, and I hope he has a long career in the NFL, but to me he's going to struggle in the NFL as he just relies on his speed off the snap - he can be stood up very easily - he needs to develop some  moves to overpower Olinemen rather than just burst off the snap. Just to clarify however I do think he's first round talent, but not at the level of the 6th overall pick.

 

If it were me picking at 6 and I had to pick the guy with the most upside it would be Gregory, even given the positive pot result. If we were to trade back in the first round I could accept picking a Dupree.

 

TBH I would be slightly disappointed if we did pick a Fowler at 6 - yes he's going to start from the first game but I don't see the upside that can be seen in a Gregory. I would be more disappointed if we picked Fowler and Kevin White or Amari Cooper are still available. To me the top 3 recievers are better as a group than the top 5 pass-rushers.

 

The scars from 2008 still remain when we also picked at 6 in the first round and got a maxed-out-no-upside guy in Vernon Gholston to be our pass rusher - if I were picking at 6 and HAD to pick pass-rush it would be Gregory. I think he can play from day one and not be a liability, and his upside is far and away better than any of the other mentioned top-pass rushers. If he does drop to the middle part of round because of his pot-positive some team is going to get an absolute steal.

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My ranks:

 

Fowler

Dupree

Beasley

Ray

Gregory

 

I dont think Fowler will be there.  I'd be good with Dupree but have my concerns. 

 

I think the draft will fall in such a manner that the Jets will have their choice of either White or Cooper and I'm really starting to lean that way.

 

I think the draft goes 1. Winston 2. Mariota 3. Williams 4. Cooper/White 5. Fowler 6. Cooper/White

 

And I'm ok with that...I'd prefer Cooper. White scares me a little bit...but I wouldnt be upset with the pick. 

 

I'm on the same page I think. Personally, I'd prefer the WR pick because I think they have fewer question marks to me compared to the pass rushers. But having a defensive head coach and since they brought in Marshall, I think they're leaning on going pass rusher. I don't think Marshall should preclude us from picking Cooper or White at all, just that they've done jack sh*t to bring in a pass rusher this offseason and I think they're earmarking 6 to fill the gap.

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I think a lot on here are seriously under-rating Gregory; he's at least 10 lbs lighter than the others (and between 25 and 35 lbs lighter than Fowler or Dupree), with more length than any of them, yet his power is comparable also to any of them at the lighter weight. For someone so long and lean you'd expect him to be easily blown off at the point of attack but that just isn't the case - he's surprisingly good vs the run.

 

Beasley, Fowler and Dupree are closed to maxed out as to what they will be in the NFL, there isn't much upside in those three, having said that all three should have solid NFL careers, barring injury. Ray has an awesome biography as to where he's come from, and I hope he has a long career in the NFL, but to me he's going to struggle in the NFL as he just relies on his speed off the snap - he can be stood up very easily - he needs to develop some  moves to overpower Olinemen rather than just burst off the snap. Just to clarify however I do think he's first round talent, but not at the level of the 6th overall pick.

 

If it were me picking at 6 and I had to pick the guy with the most upside it would be Gregory, even given the positive pot result. If we were to trade back in the first round I could accept picking a Dupree.

 

TBH I would be slightly disappointed if we did pick a Fowler at 6 - yes he's going to start from the first game but I don't see the upside that can be seen in a Gregory. I would be more disappointed if we picked Fowler and Kevin White or Amari Cooper are still available. To me the top 3 recievers are better as a group than the top 5 pass-rushers.

 

The scars from 2008 still remain when we also picked at 6 in the first round and got a maxed-out-no-upside guy in Vernon Gholston to be our pass rusher - if I were picking at 6 and HAD to pick pass-rush it would be Gregory. I think he can play from day one and not be a liability, and his upside is far and away better than any of the other mentioned top-pass rushers. If he does drop to the middle part of round because of his pot-positive some team is going to get an absolute steal.

I disagree strongly on Dupree being maxed out. His story reads the same as Collins from the pats. the kid never played the same position 2 years in a row. Then throw in in the fact that Stoops and Elliot play read and react and not an aggressive upfield game I think Dupree and Gregory are the two with the greatest up side.  Gregory is Jason Taylor and to me Dupree is Suggs for comparisons.  Not saying that they both will be in the hall, but that thier game is similar.

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I disagree strongly on Dupree being maxed out. His story reads the same as Collins from the pats. the kid never played the same position 2 years in a row. Then throw in in the fact that Stoops and Elliot play read and react and not an aggressive upfield game I think Dupree and Gregory are the two with the greatest up side. Gregory is Jason Taylor and to me Dupree is Suggs for comparisons. Not saying that they both will be in the hall, but that thier game is similar.

Dupree compares closer to orakpo IMO

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I think a lot on here are seriously under-rating Gregory; he's at least 10 lbs lighter than the others (and between 25 and 35 lbs lighter than Fowler or Dupree), with more length than any of them, yet his power is comparable also to any of them at the lighter weight. For someone so long and lean you'd expect him to be easily blown off at the point of attack but that just isn't the case - he's surprisingly good vs the run.

 

Beasley, Fowler and Dupree are closed to maxed out as to what they will be in the NFL, there isn't much upside in those three, having said that all three should have solid NFL careers, barring injury. Ray has an awesome biography as to where he's come from, and I hope he has a long career in the NFL, but to me he's going to struggle in the NFL as he just relies on his speed off the snap - he can be stood up very easily - he needs to develop some  moves to overpower Olinemen rather than just burst off the snap. Just to clarify however I do think he's first round talent, but not at the level of the 6th overall pick.

 

If it were me picking at 6 and I had to pick the guy with the most upside it would be Gregory, even given the positive pot result. If we were to trade back in the first round I could accept picking a Dupree.

 

TBH I would be slightly disappointed if we did pick a Fowler at 6 - yes he's going to start from the first game but I don't see the upside that can be seen in a Gregory. I would be more disappointed if we picked Fowler and Kevin White or Amari Cooper are still available. To me the top 3 recievers are better as a group than the top 5 pass-rushers.

 

The scars from 2008 still remain when we also picked at 6 in the first round and got a maxed-out-no-upside guy in Vernon Gholston to be our pass rusher - if I were picking at 6 and HAD to pick pass-rush it would be Gregory. I think he can play from day one and not be a liability, and his upside is far and away better than any of the other mentioned top-pass rushers. If he does drop to the middle part of round because of his pot-positive some team is going to get an absolute steal.

 

I agree

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You might want to add Eli Harold too the list he might be the 3rd best pass rusher in the draft ...at first I thought Nate Orchard was under rated but Harold is very under rated at pass rushing OLB  

The both are; Nate Orchard is definitely under the radar of most fans but probably not GMs. 

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Where does everyone have Eli Harold?

 

Meh

 

He's actually interesting, but I'm not a big fan for some reason. Tunnel vision on Dupree/Beasley/Gregory, maybe.

 

shane ray to the jets is picking up steam

 

what say you experts ?

 

Ooph, I hope they are right and I am very wrong if it goes down this way. He's Maybin/Gholston to me.

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Yeah, seen that a lot.. CBS is odd, every single mock has us getting mariota

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft

I tend to think that this late break for Mariota from Mayock et al is so much hooey, but at the same time I think Tampa is still the most likely team to take him ahead of us. The most likely scenario that has the quarterbacks going 1-2 is Winston to Tennessee because they're not taking Mariota.

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the more I read about it, the most confused I get, lol

there doesn't seem to be any consensus on these guys

Because de/Olb is the trickiest position to evaluate even more than qb. That's why there has been a bajillion horrible first rd busts last 15 years.

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I tend to think that this late break for Mariota from Mayock et al is so much hooey, but at the same time I think Tampa is still the most likely team to take him ahead of us. The most likely scenario that has the quarterbacks going 1-2 is Winston to Tennessee because they're not taking Mariota.

 

Are you basing that on the Wisenhunt doesn't want a mobile QB hypothesis, or do you have a different reason?

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That also but more that Wisenhunt is probably going to get fired before Mariota takes a snap for anyone.

 

 

ahh, yes heard that before, that one makes more sense to me... One of the reasons I think Mariota to Jets thing might have legs is he's a good match for a rookie staff/FO

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No. He actually didn't. Whether a guy had a good combine or not depends on what the numbers actually are and not on how much fanboys are fapping to them.

Ok and you're just wrong. Gholston wrecked the combine and was a very productive player at Ohio St.

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