Cimini: Dante Fowler a Fit For the Jets

[T0mShane]

All these guys you compare Fowler to are more a modern ILB/LB than 3-4 OLBs, no? Briggs...that Eagles LB...Marshall...That's a good player, not a top 6 pick. Karlos Dansby would be another name in that bunch.

It's Dupree, Cooper, or trade for Rivers. That's the best way to get a big time player out of this draft, and the Jets need either a young cheap elite or a QB out of this.

 

 

Check this biz out:  http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/517448/bud-dupree

 

Dupree vs LSU: 3 solo tackles; against Florida, 3 solo tackles. Dude got his sacks against Vanderbilt and Louisiana-Monroe.

[SenorGato]

Check this biz out:  http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/517448/bud-dupree

 

Dupree vs LSU: 3 solo tackles; against Florida, 3 solo tackles. Dude got his sacks against Vanderbilt and Louisiana-Monroe.

Who did Mario Williams or Julius Peppers or Shawn Merrimann get their sacks against?

 

The answer to that question:

 

 

Since the dummy link won't work, the answer is about 58 seconds in.

[T0mShane]

Who did Mario Williams or Julius Peppers or Shawn Merrimann get their sacks against?

 

The answer to that question:

 

 

 

Or Nick Perry? Or Melvin Ingram?

[RutgersJetFan]

Gato's in love with Dupree because Dupree is awesome.

 

Gato is in love with Dupree because he thinks Dupree played Mr. Hyde in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

[SenorGato]

Or Nick Perry? Or Melvin Ingram?

 

Fowler is more Ingram than Dupree is. Perry, like Beasley, comes from a soft school with soft players who are either soft or softer - Leinart being the softest. Injuries have been a factor,  but he also seems to be an a$$hole:

 

#Packers LBs coach Winston Moss on what Nick Perry is missing this offseason: "Everything. Everything."

— Jason Wilde (@jasonjwilde)

June 18, 2014

[JustInFudge]

OK JiF, what's the scoop on this guy?

 

The article is actually spot on.  The guy is an absolute stud who is simply a disruptive force.  He makes plays all over the field.  Muschump just about played him every where except CB.  He can throw an offense out of rhythm and give DC's nightmares because you have to know where he is at all times.  He's a blast to watch because he's passionate, has a crazy motor, makes big timely plays and is always getting the crowd hyped up by dancing between plays.  Doesnt hurt that he's a great kid with an awesome head on his shoulders unlike all the other scumbags the Gators recruit.

 

While he might not be the best speed rusher in the class (Dupree and Beasley are maybes in the pros IMO but produced better sack #'s in college)...he's also not a one trick pony who gets lost in the shuffle if his ears arent pinned back and going for the QB.  He doesnt get swallowed by the run and he can get to the QB in a number of ways from a number of positions.  He beats OL-men up, not tries to run around them.  Can rush inside and outside with both power and finesse.  I also believe his #'s were directly impacted by the way Muscramp moved him around so much.  It seemed like you always had to find him on each play.  It was frustrating because he'd make a big play lining up over a T or TE and the very next play he's lined up over the C or G.  Plus, he wasnt the only player on a sh*tty defense like the rest of these guys minus Ray. He played on a top 10 defense in the country his entire career.  Beasley and Dupree played on D's that might as well just recruited cones and put them on the field so it was easier to standout and make all the "plays". 

 

IMO he's the safest OLB in the draft.  I dont see him getting past Washington (Winston, Mariota, Williams, Cooper, Fowler is how I see it going)...so I'm not getting my hopes up but he's perfect for Bowles and what the Jets need.  He'll be able to use him all over the field and he would be a fan favorite. 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

Im not huge on Dupree only because he's raw. I dont believe on taking a raw guy like him with the 6th pick. Generally speaking though, if I had to decide between Fowler and Dupree, I'd pick Dupree. He's an impact player. He can rush the passer and he has solid weight to him. He's just raw.

 

I dont like Fowler, dude disappears in games and is not the pass rusher/best OLB that the experts are proclaiming him to be. 

 

I've watched every single game of his career and you couldnt be more wrong.  Fowler's presence was felt on just about every single snap. 

[JustInFudge]

Check this biz out:  http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/gamelog/_/id/517448/bud-dupree

 

Dupree vs LSU: 3 solo tackles; against Florida, 3 solo tackles. Dude got his sacks against Vanderbilt and Louisiana-Monroe.

 

Watch some of the footage of him where they show every play.  He's a liability most of the time.  No discipline.  No instincts.  Just an insane athlete.  He's as raw as it gets.  I totally acknowledge he's probably got the highest ceiling from a straight pass rush perspective but is a first time GM going to take a chance on him at 6 and hope that he develops?  Hell no.  And I dont blame him. Both him and Beasley scare me to death for those reasons.  

[JustInFudge]

let's assume the 2 QBs go 1 and 2, and Leonard Williams goes either 3 or 4. 

 

that means at least two of either Beasley, Fowler, Cooper, White will be on the board

 

Not too shabby. 

 

I see it going, Winston, Mariota, Wiliams, Cooper, Fowler.

 

And I take White.  With Decker and Marshall on the roster, I think Big Mac can feel confident that they can bring him along with the tutelage of two very professional receivers and wont have the pressure to feel like he needs immediate returns.  Especially as busy as he's been this offseason.  It also gives you a sh*t ton of confidence in your offense even with sh*tzpatrick or Geno at the helm.  Marshall, Decker, White, Kerley...if Amaro comes along...dare I say the Jets all of a sudden have weaponz!!!

[dbatesman]

I usually trust the scouts, but JiF likes him and Villain doesn't, so now I don't know what to think.

[flgreen]

 

The article is actually spot on.  The guy is an absolute stud who is simply a disruptive force.  He makes plays all over the field.  Muschump just about played him every where except CB.  He can throw an offense out of rhythm and give DC's nightmares because you have to know where he is at all times.  He's a blast to watch because he's passionate, has a crazy motor, makes big timely plays and is always getting the crowd hyped up by dancing between plays.  Doesnt hurt that he's a great kid with an awesome head on his shoulders unlike all the other scumbags the Gators recruit.

 

 

While he might not be the best speed rusher in the class (Dupree and Beasley are maybes in the pros IMO but produced better sack #'s in college)...he's also not a one trick pony who gets lost in the shuffle if his ears arent pinned back and going for the QB.  He doesnt get swallowed by the run and he can get to the QB in a number of ways from a number of positions.  He beats OL-men up, not tries to run around them.  Can rush inside and outside with both power and finesse.  I also believe his #'s were directly impacted by the way Muscramp moved him around so much.  It seemed like you always had to find him on each play.  It was frustrating because he'd make a big play lining up over a T or TE and the very next play he's lined up over the C or G.  Plus, he wasnt the only player on a sh*tty defense like the rest of these guys minus Ray. He played on a top 10 defense in the country his entire career.  Beasley and Dupree played on D's that might as well just recruited cones and put them on the field so it was easier to standout and make all the "plays". 

 

 

 

 

IMO he's the safest OLB in the draft.  I dont see him getting past Washington (Winston, Mariota, Williams, Cooper, Fowler is how I see it going)...so I'm not getting my hopes up but he's perfect for Bowles and what the Jets need.  He'll be able to use him all over the field and he would be a fan favorite. 

 

 

Thanks  JiF.  I'm sure you have seen him more then anyone else on the board.

 

As far as the way this draft is going to fall.  I think it's going to be a crazy one.   Just look at teh first pick.  A month before the NCAA season ended you couldn't find a draft guru who didn't have Mariota as the top pick.  Three weeks later with Oregon trouncing FSU, you couldn't find any one who didn't have Winston 1st.  Now I think Mayock is back on Mariota again.

 

Stay tuned

 

 

 

 

 

[JustInFudge]

I've watched every game he's ever played.  Honestly, I dont know if he's the best pure pass rusher in the draft because we never got to see him play that role in a full time capacity when he was in school.  And nobody really knows...we're all just speculating.  What I do know is, what I got to watch while he was in school was a treat.  He was a disruptive of a Gator as I've ever seen.  

[RutgersJetFan]

I usually trust the scouts, but JiF likes him and Villain doesn't, so now I don't know what to think.

 

[BRONX DUDE]

We should trade the pick.  Anyone we pick at SIX is going to suck anyway. Let's take the multiple picks instead.

[Larz]

We should trade the pick.  Anyone we pick at SIX is going to suck anyway. Let's take the multiple picks instead.

 

because multiple players that suck is somehow better ?

 

lol

[Matt39]

If I was shooting for a pass rusher that I "knew" was going to be great, I'd take Beasley. I'm not as confident in any of the others becoming a 12+ sack guy. I think Fowler becomes, at worst, a dirty work, nasty, Lance Briggs/Wilber Marshall-type player for you. 

 

Lots of draftniksfwiw cooling on Dupree because he loafs, apparently, and doesn't seem to have good instincts. These are draftniks, though. 

 

Vic Beasley doesnt have any pass rushing moves. He's light...and if he doesnt guess the snap count correctly he's lost. He's giving you zero against the run too. IDK if were in position to draft a strict speed rusher that high.

[BRONX DUDE]

because multiple players that suck is somehow better ?

 

lol

If we get 3 picks one of them is bound to not suck.  Got it ?

[Villain The Foe]

I've watched every single game of his career and you couldnt be more wrong.  Fowler's presence was felt on just about every single snap. 

You probably mean just about every snap when he's trying to rush the QB. But when it comes to the running game the dude disappears from games. Im not interested in an OLB that can't contribute consistently in the run game. If you seen every game then you've seen this dude get pancaked on running plays. 

[JustInFudge]

You probably mean just about every snap when he's trying to rush the QB. But when it comes to the running game the dude disappears from games. Im not interested in an OLB that can't contribute consistently in the run game. If you seen every game then you've seen this dude get pancaked on running plays.

I have no idea what you're talking about. If anything his college career was just the opposite.

[bealeb319]

I see it going, Winston, Mariota, Wiliams, Cooper, Fowler.

 

And I take White.  With Decker and Marshall on the roster, I think Big Mac can feel confident that they can bring him along with the tutelage of two very professional receivers and wont have the pressure to feel like he needs immediate returns.  Especially as busy as he's been this offseason.  It also gives you a sh*t ton of confidence in your offense even with sh*tzpatrick or Geno at the helm.  Marshall, Decker, White, Kerley...if Amaro comes along...dare I say the Jets all of a sudden have weaponz!!!

 

Interesting Statistic:

Amaro caught roughly 71% of passes thrown to him last season just about the same as Cobb, Gronk caught 64%, Grahm 68%, Calvin Johnson 55%, Aj Green 59%, Julio Jones 63% OBJ 70% list goes on, point being Amaro may not have been a 1,000 yard double digit touchdown stud last year but we should be excited to see how he develops as he has a decent set of hands.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

The problem I have with Fowler is coming up with a reason why he's going to be better in the pros than guys who were better pass rushers in college than he was.

[Villain The Foe]

I have no idea what you're talking about. If anything his college career was just the opposite.

So you're telling me that Dante Fowler was a consistent disrupter in the running game? 

[Matt39]

The problem I have with Fowler is coming up with a reason why he's going to be better in the pros than guys who were better pass rushers in college than he was.

 

none of these guys were elite pass rushers in college

[JustInFudge]

Interesting Statistic:

Amaro caught roughly 71% of passes thrown to him last season just about the same as Cobb, Gronk caught 64%, Grahm 68%, Calvin Johnson 55%, Aj Green 59%, Julio Jones 63% OBJ 70% list goes on, point being Amaro may not have been a 1,000 yard double digit touchdown stud last year but we should be excited to see how he develops as he has a decent set of hands.

 

We can only hope! 

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

none of these guys were elite pass rushers in college

Gregory, Ray, Beasley were all very good. Fowler and (surprisingly) Dupree did a lot more stuff than those guys so they're ahead of the curve in that regard, but at 6 you have to have the pass rush. I think Dupree can be better in the NFL than he was in college just by having him spend more time rushing (as opposed to Gregory, Ray, Beasley, who will be rushing less and doing other stuff more than in college) because the metrics say he's a natural. I can see it. One good counter to the bull rush, he could be great. I don't see where Fowler emerges like that.

[Matt39]

Gregory, Ray, Beasley were all very good. Fowler and (surprisingly) Dupree did a lot more stuff than those guys so they're ahead of the curve in that regard, but at 6 you have to have the pass rush. I think Dupree can be better in the NFL than he was in college just by having him spend more time rushing (as opposed to Gregory, Ray, Beasley, who will be rushing less and doing other stuff more than in college) because the metrics say he's a natural. I can see it. One good counter to the bull rush, he could be great. I don't see where Fowler emerges like that.

 

I like Dupree the best too, long term. Beasley scares the sh*t out of me. 42 on Clemson is an animal

 

I don't know why Fowler's being hyped the most out of everyone. Seems random. I think Ray would be fine. Eli Harold seems like the dark horse.

[Villain The Foe]

Interesting Statistic:

Amaro caught roughly 71% of passes thrown to him last season just about the same as Cobb, Gronk caught 64%, Grahm 68%, Calvin Johnson 55%, Aj Green 59%, Julio Jones 63% OBJ 70% list goes on, point being Amaro may not have been a 1,000 yard double digit touchdown stud last year but we should be excited to see how he develops as he has a decent set of hands.

Where did you get that info. 

thats crazy if thats true, because I do remember a few drops from him that really stood out. 

[JustInFudge]

The problem I have with Fowler is coming up with a reason why he's going to be better in the pros than guys who were better pass rushers in college than he was.

 

Again, I think his #'s for both sacks and tackles were impacted by how he was used in that defense.  He put a lot of pressure on QB's.  When you're not playing a consistent position, it has to impact your numbers.  Especially when you're literally playing every position on the front 7.  I think the other dudes just had more opportunities from the edge.

 

All that said, Dupree and Beasley may end up being better pure pass rushers.  Maybe they average more sacks a year but I think Fowler has more overall game.  He can do more for you.  So I guess its about what you value more at the position; a pass rusher who might get 10-12 sacks and that's about it or a guy who can get you 8-10 but is just a more disruptive overall force?  

[JustInFudge]

So you're telling me that Dante Fowler was a consistent disrupter in the running game? 

 

Yes

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

I like Dupree the best too, long term. Beasley scares the sh*t out of me.

https://youtu.be/gD7r8CPqVAw

I don't know why Fowler's being hyped the most out of everyone. Seems random. I think Ray would be fine. Eli Harold seems like the dark horse.

Beasley made all America back to back and his athletic numbers are off the charts. If I had to bet on any of them being at least good, it would be Beasley ahead of Kikaha with two good knees ahead of everybody else. He'd be the safe play if we pass on Dupree, but I wouldnt.

[T0mShane]

Vic Beasley doesnt have any pass rushing moves. He's light...and if he doesnt guess the snap count correctly he's lost. He's giving you zero against the run too. IDK if were in position to draft a strict speed rusher that high.

I think whoever is playing behind Sheldon and next to Harris won't have to worry too much about being stout against the run. All that guy had to do is chase the QB.

[Villain The Foe]

Yes

Go watch that Alabama game again then for starts. 

[T0mShane]

[JustInFudge]

Go watch that Alabama game again then for starts. 

 

I'll pass.

 

I'm not going to hold the game against him.  The entire team took a sh*t that day.  Happens.  They got throttle in that game.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

Preston Smith is another good one for the second day.