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if Jets Defense is Top5 in 2015, exactly 'how much' do we need from QB?


SouthernJet

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I don't think Jets are SB ready just yet, but I can always dream. I think Fitzpatrick could provide the Jets the kind of season that Trent Dilfer gave Baltimore in 2000 and look what happened. Not sure if Jets are as good as Ravens defensively, but could be close to that. If our QB doesn't put the team in bad positions like Geno did regularly I think the sky is the limit. I do however, hope the Jets draft a QB of the future or trade for Glennon. I haven't been this optimistic for a Jets season in a long time. I was so glad to see Rex go I almost had an orgasm. Should have been done in 2012, but better late than never. He was probably the biggest OBSTACLE to winning the team had.

This is exactly what I was thinking. That year the Ravens D was lights out and Dilfer was just a manager and nothing else.

It can be done.

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This is exactly what I was thinking. That year the Ravens D was lights out and Dilfer was just a manager and nothing else.

It can be done.

 

No they can't the rules are even more swayed to Offense, The days of Dilfering are over. Again the so called experts should look at the quality of Fitzy's wins last yr.

If Fitzy starts yr this yr,  year 1 of the 3 yrs we have revis will be wasted.

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Whether Fitz of not, I am 90% sure we see a QB drafted in 1st 4 rounds UNLESS our scouts have a secret diamond in rough , aka 6th round Brady, that they feel GREAT about.. (or a young QB from a heavy laden QB team they like and expect to be cut at end of camp)

What Scouts Are Saying About this year's QBs

Starting today and for the next two weeks, we will give you a position-by-position look at the top players in the

2015 NFL Draft

through the eyes of the men who scout the players and make the picks.

Four top scouts and NFL executives, who all have earned a Super Bowl ring for their work, spoke to NJ Advance Media about the draft and helped rank the players. They requested anonymity because they weren't authorized to speak about players.

Here's an alphabetical look at the top five quarterbacks. For their rankings and what team they might go to, click through the slideshow at the bottom.

Garrett Grayson, Colorado State

Measurables: 6-2, 213, 4.60

Stats: Threw for over 7,600 yards the past two years.

Scouts Say: "No, I don't want him. Some team might, but it won't be us.'' ..."We weren't impressed. There's too much that needs to be done.'' ..."Good arm, pretty accurate, too. He just needs to work on mechanics and things like that. He'll be OK.'' ..."If he went to Alabama or Oregon, you would have heard a lot more about him. I think he's going to be pretty good.''

Brett Hundley, UCLA

Measurables: 6-3, 226, 4.63

Stats: Career 75 TDs, 25 interceptions

Scouts Say: "I don't want to kill him, but he's just not that good.'' ..."There are tools there, but he needs time, a lot of time. He's not ready to play.'' ..."There are just too many flaws in his game.'' ..."We're not high on him at all.''

Bryce Petty, Baylor

Measurables: 6-3, 230, 4.87

Stats: 62 TDs and 10 interceptions the past two years.

Scouts Say: "He's not the guy you looking for, at least we aren't.'' ..."It looks like he just locks in one receiver every play. I'm not sure how good he is reading a defense.'' ..."He gets rid of the ball quickly, which is good. But there's not much else I like.'' ..."He had some really good players around him, which made him look a little better than he is.''

Marcus Mariota, Oregon

Measurables: 6-4, 222, 4.52

Stats: 42 TDs and four interceptions last season.

Scouts Say: "In a word, great. He's the best I've seen since (Andrew) Luck. He's everything you want.'' ..."He has it all. If we had the first pick, he'd be ours. But we don't.'' ..."The only knock we have on him, is he's a thrower, not a passer. But he'll work on that. He'll be real good.'' ..."What I like best about him is he's a hard worker. He'll put in the time. That's more important than people realize.''

Jameis Winston, Florida State

Measurables:6-4, 231, 4.90

Stats: After throwing 40 TDs and 10 interceptions in 2013, he threw 25 TDs and 18 interceptions last year.

Scouts Say: "The turnovers bother me as much as the off the field stuff.'' ..."If you can get by the off the field stuff, and we can't, he's really good.'' ..."If he doesn't mature, he's not going to be playing in this league. He has the talent to play, but he needs to grow up in a hurry.'' ..."It's not like we would be in line to take him, anyway, but we don't go near guys like him. There's just too much there.''

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Where are we getting an x-tra number 2 pick Boozer? I would like Scherff, and in round two go for Petty or Grayson as QB of Future then get RB or LB in round three and OL again in fourth. Can't have too many blockers.

Sherf (SP?) or La'El Collins after trade down, Eli Harold round 2, WR Dorsett with Xtra #2 pick, Abdullah or Duke J. With 3rd and maybe a FA with the 4th and we are headed toward playoffs.

 

 

Did you notice that part in my post??? I would expect an additional 2nd round pick if we move back to pick 9 or 10(Sherff) If we trade with Cleveland @ #12 I'd hope for their other !st round pick(Dream Big!)

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Sherf (SP?) or La'El Collins after trade down, Eli Harold round 2, WR Dorsett with Xtra #2 pick, Abdullah or Duke J. With 3rd and maybe a FA with the 4th and we are headed toward playoffs.

 

 

Did you notice that part in my post??? I would expect an additional 2nd round pick if we move back to pick 9 or 10(Sherff) If we trade with Cleveland @ #12 I'd hope for their other !st round pick(Dream Big!)

I bet the Giants take Scherff at 9..

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at 6? heck of a reach

I'll bet you a Jets Jersey he goes top 12. If he's such a reach, you should have no problem taking me up on that one.

 

This is how I got my Richardson jersey, from a guy here on JN. Back up your rhetoric with a gentleman's bet.

 

Jerseys only cost $60 - $80.

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I'll bet you a Jets Jersey he goes top 12. If he's such a reach, you should have no problem taking me up on that one.

 

This is how I got my Richardson jersey, from a guy here on JN. Back up your rhetoric with a gentleman's bet.

 

Jerseys only cost $60 - $80.

 

ballsy.

 

let me think about it some more, i'll get back to you.

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200-250 yards/gm

1.5 TDs/gm

.75 turnovers/gm

60% comp%

Might be asking a lot though.

And I have to disagree about Simms being able to win more than Geno. I really want to like Simms but he's just not that good.

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The dimension that Wilson has that Glennon doesnt is keeping the play alive with his feet. Wilson is a master at that, but everything else Glennon does very well.Russell Wilson is one of the best QB's in the game, yet he threw for 20 TD's this year and has never thrown for over 3,500 yds. Its his ability to not make the big mistake. He's the best game manager in the game, the modern day Troy Aikman with feet. Glennon can be a top Game manager in the NFL like an Alex Smith.

 

 

 

 

Villian, here in your own words you have described why Glennon will be and is at best a backup QB and why Tampa has no intentions of playing him or even keeping him.

 

QBs need to make plays to keep drives alive.

 

Wilson's stats are misleading because of two things. First, he is a running QB. Yes he threw for 3500 yards last year but he also rushed for 849 yards and 6 TDs. so as QB he accounted for 4400 yards of offense.and  26 TDs which is actually more production than Matthew Stafford. Wilson was best the 16th rated QB in touchdowns and the 16th RUNNER in the NFL last year at the same time. He in no way at all resembles a game manager. Second, the Seahawks have the best defense in the NFL and quite a few games were already decided in the fourth quarter so  there was no reason to pass and pad his stats. Think of that, he is an absolute weapon, AND he rarely makes mistakes.

 

If you extrapolate Glennon's passing numbers to 16 games from his 2013 season he throws for around 3200 yards and 23 touchdowns.  He has NO mobility, no ability to make plays and keep drives alive with his feet so his ceiling is probably around 3500 yards and 26 or 27 touchdowns, But again no playmaking ability with his feet so he will make many less plays with his feet and the opposing offense with likely have 2-4 or more offensive series per game than compared to Russell Wilson. For a non-dynamic guy like Glennon to be truly successful he needs to be able to make lots of plays with his arm and be in that comparable range to a Stafford or Ryan those types of guys. But he is not capable of that, so he severely limits the opportunity for your team to win, which is largely what we have already seen from Glennon already in his career.

 

He is just TOO MUCH of a game manager and teams will never win with him because he cannot sustain drives with his arm or his feet. And that type of QB is a backup.

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Villian, here in your own words you have described why Glennon will be and is at best a backup QB and why Tampa has no intentions of playing him or even keeping him.

 

QBs need to make plays to keep drives alive.

 

Wilson's stats are misleading because of two things. First, he is a running QB. Yes he threw for 3500 yards last year but he also rushed for 849 yards and 6 TDs. so as QB he accounted for 4400 yards of offense.and  26 TDs which is actually more production than Matthew Stafford. Wilson was best the 16th rated QB in touchdowns and the 16th RUNNER in the NFL last year at the same time. He in no way at all resembles a game manager. Second, the Seahawks have the best defense in the NFL and quite a few games were already decided in the fourth quarter so  there was no reason to pass and pad his stats. Think of that, he is an absolute weapon, AND he rarely makes mistakes.

 

If you extrapolate Glennon's passing numbers to 16 games from his 2013 season he throws for around 3200 yards and 23 touchdowns.  He has NO mobility, no ability to make plays and keep drives alive with his feet so his ceiling is probably around 3500 yards and 26 or 27 touchdowns, But again no playmaking ability with his feet so he will make many less plays with his feet and the opposing offense with likely have 2-4 or more offensive series per game than compared to Russell Wilson. For a non-dynamic guy like Glennon to be truly successful he needs to be able to make lots of plays with his arm and be in that comparable range to a Stafford or Ryan those types of guys. But he is not capable of that, so he severely limits the opportunity for your team to win, which is largely what we have already seen from Glennon already in his career.

 

He is just TOO MUCH of a game manager and teams will never win with him because he cannot sustain drives with his arm or his feet. And that type of QB is a backup.

lol.

 

To say that a guy who's ceiling is 3500 yards and 27 TD is a guy who is "at best a back up" is ridiculous when the team you root for has a starter who can't come close to those numbers. 

 

Also, Wilson's numbers weren't misleading, his rushing stats simply weren't displayed, but they certainly were accounted for when I called the guy a "master" at keeping the play alive with his feet. What I can show that is actually misleading is the fact that you capped Glennon's performance, basically saying that he couldn't possibly do any better than what he's already done when his oline provides most of his problems given that what you capped him off at is based on being behind one of the bottom 3 worst offensive lines in all of football. I will put up two GIF's that I've already displayed earlier that shows Mike Glennon not only keeping the play alive (with his feet), but scoring TD's (with his arm) on those plays AGAINST that #1 defense that Glennon doesnt have on his team. (Footage is from Glennon's rookie year) Also keep in mind that this is the area of the field where Geno always tends to take that unnecessary 10 yard sack that knocks us out of field goal range. Here's the difference between the Rookie Glennon going up against the #1 defense of 2013 and the dude that we have on our team.

As a side note, this guys game, especially these two plays remind me alot of Eli Manning (Minus the better Oline and the 20+ ints)

 

2015-04-11%2017_32_05.gif

 

2015-04-11%2017_38_01.gif

 

So as you can see, Mike Glennon is able to extend the play not by running the ball, but by escaping the pocket all while keeping his eyes down the field and buying enough time to allow one of his targets to get open in order for him to throw two strikes for TD's against that #1 defense that you touted a second ago. 

 

Just because a guy can't run (like Wilson), doesnt mean that he can't move in the pocket and create time to keep plays alive (Glennon). Furthermore, how many backup QB's do you know that can maintain such comfortability in the pocket, always keeping their eyes down the field in order to make the play while having such an atrocious offensive line like the Bucs? Mike Glennon is a starting caliber QB in the NFL whether people like to believe it or not, and he's sure as hell better than anything in a Jets uniform. 

 

And if Tampa has no intentions of keeping him then I'd rather see the Jets reap the treasure that Tampa sees as garbage. 

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Not enough for a SB run? We was a game away twice with Mark Sanchez that was nothing like a game manager, and this defense may be even better than what he had.

 

People don't really remember what Sanchez did those playoff years. There were plenty of games he won us at the end. The kid was the first to win back to back overtime games on the road. Yeah he had ups and downs those first 2 years, but he had some big games where he was way more than a game manager. His problem with the Jets wasn't his first 2 years, it was his years after those first 2.

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People don't really remember what Sanchez did those playoff years. There were plenty of games he won us at the end. The kid was the first to win back to back overtime games on the road. Yeah he had ups and downs those first 2 years, but he had some big games where he was way more than a game manager. His problem with the Jets wasn't his first 2 years, it was his years after those first 2.

I definitely remember. I've had plenty of debates here because you know that people are quick to say that "Sanchez rode the back of the defense and contributed nothing" those first two years. I've always supported the fact that Sanchez had some of his best football moments as a Jet in the playoffs, no question. So I totally agree with you on that one. But with that said, I stand by my statement and here's why.

 

Mark Sanchez wasnt way more than a game manager. There were moments where he really contributed and it showed, but he never put the game on his back and will'd the win. For the most part Mark was being managed by the coaching staff more than Mark was managing the football game. Look at his 09' Playoff stats

 

Vs. Bengals  12 of 15, 182 yards, 1 TD 0 INT's 80% comp W24-14

Vs. Chargers 12 of 23 100 yards, 1 TD 1 INT's 52% comp W17-14

Vs. Colts      17 of 30 257 yards, 2  TD's 1 Int's 57% comp L17-30

 

It's was clear to me attest that Mark Sanchez wasnt game managing but rather the coaching staff was managing Mark and relying heavily on the running game to win these games. With that said there were moments in both the Chargers game (TD to Dustin Keller was clutch) and the Colts game (Bomb to Edwards early, and Edwards also dropping a would-be TD) where you seen Sanchez contribute at particular moments. Here's his 10' Playoff stats. 

 

Vs. Colts 18 of 31, 189 yards, 0TD's 1 INT, 58% comp W17-16

Vs. Pats  16 of 25, 194 yards, 3TD's 0 INT, 64% comp W28-21

Vs. Pit     20 of 33, 233 yards 2TD's 0 INT, 60% comp L19-24

 

This second playoff run Mark Sanchez really stepped up, in particular the Patriots game. That game Mark Sanchez not only managed but also stepped up and put points on the board. This is one of Sanchez best games as a pro. In the Colts game he was very bland, but he and Braylon stepped up big time with that deep pass at the end of the game to put us in field goal range. The Pit game was lost in the first half. We did nothing and ended up leaving points on the field and it cost us big time losing by 5 points. The big thing here was Sanchez not throwing INT's in the Pats/Steelers games.  

 

 

To conclude, Sanchez had his moments, and maybe I shouldn't have been so cut and dry when the guy certainly won us a big game against the Pats, I'll give it to him, dude came to play in that game. But for the most part, Mark Sanchez was managed much more than he managed the football game, and that includes the playoffs.

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Come back when you're willing to deal with everything I said.

 

 

Jets have 3 yrs with Revis on team, mind boggling if they waste one of them with Fitzuh as starter. You have to bellieve a trade is coming, drafting a rook high in draft  is almost pointless 

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I definitely remember. I've had plenty of debates here because you know that people are quick to say that "Sanchez rode the back of the defense and contributed nothing" those first two years. I've always supported the fact that Sanchez had some of his best football moments as a Jet in the playoffs, no question. So I totally agree with you on that one. But with that said, I stand my my statement and here's why.

 

Mark Sanchez wasnt way more than a game manager. There were moments where he really contributed and it showed, but he never put the game on his back and will'd the win. For the most part Mark was being managed by the coaching staff more than Mark was managing the football game. Look at his 09' Playoff stats

 

Vs. Bengals  12 of 15, 182 yards, 1 TD 0 INT's 80% comp W24-14

Vs. Chargers 12 of 23 100 yards, 1 TD 1 INT's 52% comp W17-14

Vs. Colts      17 of 30 257 yards, 2  TD's 1 Int's 57% comp L17-30

 

It's was clear to me attest that Mark Sanchez wasnt game managing but rather the coaching staff was managing Mark and relying heavily on the running game to win these games. With that said there were moments in both the Chargers game (TD to Dustin Keller was clutch) and the Colts game (Bomb to Edwards early, and Edwards also dropping a would-be TD) where you seen Sanchez contribute at particular moments. Here's his 10' Playoff stats. 

 

Vs. Colts 18 of 31, 189 yards, 0TD's 1 INT, 58% comp W17-16

Vs. Pats  16 of 25, 194 yards, 3TD's 0 INT, 64% comp W28-21

Vs. Pit     20 of 33, 233 yards 2TD's 0 INT, 60% comp L19-24

 

This second playoff run Mark Sanchez really stepped up, in particular the Patriots game. That game Mark Sanchez not only managed but also stepped up and put points on the board. This is one of Sanchez best games as a pro. In the Colts game he was very bland, but he and Braylon stepped up big time with that deep pass at the end of the game to put us in field goal range. The Pit game was lost in the first half. We did nothing and ended up leaving points on the field and it cost us big time losing by 5 points. The big thing here was Sanchez not throwing INT's in the Pats/Steelers games.  

 

 

 

To conclude, Sanchez had his moments, and maybe I shouldn't have been so cut and dry when the guy certainly won us a big game against the Pats, I'll give it to him, dude came to play in that game. But for the most part, Mark Sanchez was managed much more than he managed the football game, and that includes the playoffs.

 

 

Sanchez was terrible his whole time here, 2010 people point to the late game heroics and forget the fact that the only reason we were in that position was due to him sucking for 3.5 quarters. Of the playoff games, year 1 the Cinn defense was keying so much on Shonn Greene that a HS QB could've put up good stats. He was terrible in the chargers game, and once Shonn Greene got hurt, he was dreadful in the Colts game. 2009 was all about defense and run game.

 

2010 playoff run he was bad against the Colts, it was our defense that won that game, good against the Patriots, and was primarily responsible for the loss to Pittsburgh by not producing even a little bit until Pitts basically went into a prevent.

 

By my count, he had 1 legit good game in 6 attempts against the Pats

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Jets have 3 yrs with Revis on team, mind boggling if they waste one of them with Fitzuh as starter. You have to bellieve a trade is coming, drafting a rook high in draft  is almost pointless 

I would normally agree with you on this, but only caveat is Gailey and our new GM have a Fitz history..does that mean fitz will be the savior? Nope, but it 'might' mean they 'think' he can game manage the team for a year to 9-10 Ws (with great def, which may or may not happen) while we train the QB we draft in rounds 2 thru 4?

 

Lets face it, no one knows... we are the Jets

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Sanchez was terrible his whole time here, 2010 people point to the late game heroics and forget the fact that the only reason we were in that position was due to him sucking for 3.5 quarters. Of the playoff games, year 1 the Cinn defense was keying so much on Shonn Greene that a HS QB could've put up good stats. He was terrible in the chargers game, and once Shonn Greene got hurt, he was dreadful in the Colts game. 2009 was all about defense and run game.

 

2010 playoff run he was bad against the Colts, it was our defense that won that game, good against the Patriots, and was primarily responsible for the loss to Pittsburgh by not producing even a little bit until Pitts basically went into a prevent.

 

By my count, he had 1 legit good game in 6 attempts against the Pats

All that taken into account. The guy had moments in the playoffs. Its quite evident that Sanchez wasnt the answer, but I couldn't entirely disregard what Joebaby stated or even what I've stated to people in the past when this topic comes up. Was Sanchez a solid or even serviceable QB? For the most part, no. I do understand however that there were certain things that did play into the regression but at the end of the day I look at his decision making and it wasnt there. Im not going to take away the very few moments the guy had with this team though. Two of his 3 best games were playoff games. The Colts loss in 09' was a good game, the Pats victory in 10' and the Jets come from behind win against the Texans at home. That sh*t was epic. I wish I went to that game because on TV it looked like the stadium was rocking! 

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Jets have 3 yrs with Revis on team, mind boggling if they waste one of them with Fitzuh as starter. You have to bellieve a trade is coming, drafting a rook high in draft  is almost pointless 

Thats another solid point. No need to throw 50+ million into the team and then hand it over to a rookie and say "Hey, win the Super Bowl". We need to trade for a guy who we feel can manage a game, provide us a few wins on his own arm and rarely put us in a bad position. Glennon is the best option imo in regards to a guy that we could realistically trade for. 

 

And I really dont see us making these type of free agency moves then saying that we're not in "win now" mode. 

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All that taken into account. The guy had moments in the playoffs. Its quite evident that Sanchez wasnt the answer, but I couldn't entirely disregard what Joebaby stated or even what I've stated to people in the past when this topic comes up. Was Sanchez a solid or even serviceable QB? For the most part, no. I do understand however that there were certain things that did play into the regression but at the end of the day I look at his decision making and it wasnt there. Im not going to take away the very few moments the guy had with this team though. Two of his 3 best games were playoff games. The Colts loss in 09' was a good game, the Pats victory in 10' and the Jets come from behind win against the Texans at home. That sh*t was epic. I wish I went to that game because on TV it looked like the stadium was rocking! 

 

 

Yes he had his moments where you thought he was going to one day be a good QB, 100% agree.. But in totality, he wasn't, and once the team got weaker around him he was exposed

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