Jerimiah and Brooks debate White vs. Cooper ... best in class

[DaBallhawk]

White and Wallace don't have a lot in common other than speed.  Wallace plays faster (even though White's 40 is comparable) but White is way more physical and excells in jump ball situations.  Wallace is somewhat one-dimensional in my opinion.  White has a chance to be a much better player in the NFL.

 

From the tape that I've seen, White seems to be a much better blocker than Cooper, who seems to be not all that interested in blocking.

 

Relax, Mike Mayock. Nobody said they're 110% identical.

[JetBlue]

No. You just don't made any sense. I don't give a sh*t if you share my opinion, that's not the issue. Mike Mayock has White as his #1 receiver, I don't have an issue with that. I don't agree, but I can see why some might see it different. But for you and other bozos like you to spew this "he could be the next Fitzgerald" or "he's similar to Brandon Marshall" type horsesh*t, that does bother me. Because you don't know what you're talking about.

go **** go yourself tough guy. You have to resort to name calling when it really isn't that serious. Player comparisons are made all the time so I don't get why your panties are all in a bunch and at this point I could'nt give sh*t. Feel free to ignore this bozos posts in the future because I certainly will be ignoring you with your ****ed up attitude.

[JetBlue]

Just watched that game. I seen a very good, very strong WR who doesnt masks his routes and will kill any DB playing off man as well as a DB that can't handle physicality. I did see white get one hand on the ball that was thrown behind him that he couldn't bring in and I also seen him allow a TD to be broken up when it should have been caught (landed right in his hands). 2 things that actually defined Fitz style given that he was able to do those very things. 

 

You know who he actually looks like? A stronger, faster Plaxico Burress when he was at Michigan state. I'll have to disagree with those above average commentators when comparing this guy to Larry Fitzgerald. He's this years version of Burress in my eyes which is pretty nice. 

 

Player comparison are in the eye of the beholder.  I am not the only one who sees the Larry Fitzgerald comparisons.  Doesn't mean he plays exactly like him.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000415707/article/west-virginias-kevin-white-drawing-nfl-comparisons

West Virginia's Kevin White drawing NFL comparisons

Mike Huguenin

College Football 24/7 writer

 

The senior who might be the nation's best wide receiver is going against the Big 12's worst pass defense this Saturday. That could lead to a big day for West Virginia's Kevin White, who has been compared to both Steve Smith and Larry Fitzgerald.

White (6-foot-3, 210 pounds) leads the nation in receptions (69) and receiving yards (1,020) and has seven TD catches. He and WVU play at Oklahoma State on Saturday, and the Cowboys are surrendering 288.4 passing yards per game.

In a later tweet, in an answer to a specific question, Jeremiah said the first comparison "that came to my mind was a super-sized Steve Smith." Jeremiah also tweeted that he was "really impressed by how efficient (White) is at the top of routes" and that White did a "nice job stacking CBs on verts (vertical routes) too."

In September, NFL Media analysts wrote that they were "hearing a lot of Larry Fitzgerald comparisons" for White. NFL Media analyst Charles Davis wrote this week that "White is built similarly to Fitzgerald and has great hands to go along with a wide catch radius."

 

White finished with 35 receptions last season, his first at WVU after transferring in from a junior college. He had more than five catches in a game just twice last season; this season, White has had at least six receptions in every game and four times has caught at least 10 passes in a game.

White was not heavily recruited out of Plainfield (N.J.) High for academic reasons and ended up at Lackawanna College in Scranton, Pa. He played well as a junior college sophomore in 2012 and ended up choosing West Virginia over Texas Tech. (The assistant in charge of his recruitment was then-quarterback coach Jake Spavital -- who now is the offensive coordinator at Texas A&M.)

His athleticism showed last fall at WVU, but he was not consistent. "Last year, I really didn't know much and I had to think a lot," he said in a story posted on WVU's website in July. He also noted in that story he had developed a good rapport with Mountaineers quarterback Clint Trickett during the spring and summer.

 

That rapport has paid off, to the tune of seven consecutive 100-yard outings, including a 13-catch, 216-yard effort in a win over Maryland and a 13-catch, 123-yard day in a win over Texas Tech that likely led Red Raiders coaches to wonder "what might have been" had White signed with them.

Oklahoma State coach Mike Gundy has been impressed with what he has seen of White on tape.

"Going to play the game for a long time, in my opinion," Gundy said during his weekly news conference.

Oklahoma State seems likely to use potential All-Big 12 cornerback Kevin Peterson on White. But White is four inches taller and 25 pounds heavier than Peterson, so another big day seems to be in order.

Mike Huguenin can be reached at mike.huguenin@nfl.com. You also can follow him on Twitter@MikeHuguenin.

 

Rotoworld comparison: 

 

Over the next 12 days, West Virginia WR Kevin White will visit the Jets, Rams, Bears and Giants.

White has had a strange spring. Up until very recently, he had only made one pre-draft visit total, to Tennessee. Over the next few weeks, he's going to be racking up frequent flyer miles like George Clooney. White figures to go anywhere between No. 4 to the Raiders and No. 10 to the Rams. He's been compared to Terrell Owens and Julio Jones. Apr 17 - 7:22 PM

Source: National Football Post

http://www.rotoworld.com/recent/cfb/133691/kevin-white

 

 

Fitz, Owens, Jones: if he can become half as good as those guys he will be worth it. 

[DaBallhawk]

go **** go yourself tough guy. You have to resort to name calling when it really isn't that serious. Player comparisons are made all the time so I don't get why your panties are all in a bunch and at this point I could'nt give sh*t. Feel free to ignore this bozos posts in the future because I certainly will be ignoring you with your ****ed up attitude.

 

The only thing that bothered me was the fact that you compared Kevin White to Marshall or Fitzgerald, based on a game, his stat sheet in that game. Fitz and Marshall especially are different type of receivers. Don't put a positive spin on everything somebody brings up re: Kevin White. He's not perfect. He's got his flaws. And him having just one good season is not a good thing either. Yet you somehow figured out a way to make it sound like it's a great thing. Stuff like that.

[bealeb319]

Because thats not the purpose of the combine. Evaluating a talent should be done on the field. Gathering combine metrics should only be in support of what was evaluated on the field. Evaluating at the combine will have you do something stupid like trade up in the draft in order to pick a guy like Stephen Hill because he came from the same school as Demaryius Thomas and Megatron and he looked awesome running the gauntlet. 

 

People dont use the combine simply as "more data" they use it as "oh sh*t, dude just ran a 4.35", then he climbs up a bunch of spaces. Don't believe me? What happened to Breshad Perriman the moment he ran a sub 4.3 at his pro day? What happened when Phillip Dorsett. These guys are suddenly in the conversation as being 1st round picks in the draft. Im not saying that you discount or dismiss the combine, what im saying is that people are dismissing the evaluating aspect and going solely off of combine metrics which has never made a football player. 

 

I fully agree with you on these two, I think they are both going to be busts. The worst case of this was Tavon Austin and the Rams made the mistake of jumping way up to draft him early in the first round. I don't think you will see the same thing out of White though I think he has much better hands than Austin, Dorsett or Perriman. White is going to be a good NFL player, I think Cooper will be better I can definitely see Cooper being the next Julio Jones as a lot of "experts" have compared him to. I have a gut feeling Parker is going to be a bust though, I know tons of people love the guy but I just think he is going to flop.

[Bruce Harper]

Relax, Mike Mayock. Nobody said they're 110% identical.

 

If I was any more relaxed I'd be asleep.  You said "White is more of a Mike Wallace."  Didn't agree, so I said so.  Hope that's okay.

[cant wait]

I fully agree with you on these two, I think they are both going to be busts. The worst case of this was Tavon Austin and the Rams made the mistake of jumping way up to draft him early in the first round. I don't think you will see the same thing out of White though I think he has much better hands than Austin, Dorsett or Perriman. White is going to be a good NFL player, I think Cooper will be better I can definitely see Cooper being the next Julio Jones as a lot of "experts" have compared him to. I have a gut feeling Parker is going to be a bust though, I know tons of people love the guy but I just think he is going to flop.

He's closer to Antonio brown or Cruz than Julio

[DaBallhawk]

If I was any more relaxed I'd be asleep.  You said "White is more of a Mike Wallace."  Didn't agree, so I said so.  Hope that's okay.

 

So when did we go from "more of a Mike Wallace" to "he's exactly the same guy"? I said he's more of a Mike Wallace. Meaning in my eyes he'll never be somebody who catches 100+ balls per year, be more of a deep threat/playmaker. He's not gonna dominate in the air or as a possession receiver. He's not gonna be a force as a blocker. So stop with the Marshall/Fitz comparisons. He's just a different animal. I'll give you Julio Jones, maybe a little, but he was far more polished, a far safer pick, far more proven and more talented when he came out. White probably has the same ceiling, but unlike Julio he's got some bust potential as well. Just not a safe pick. He's just not proven whatsoever. And when you have an option to pick a guy like Amari Cooper instead, that's who you should pick. Don't be greedy. I rather have a Pro Bowl type receiver, a safe pick, instead of gambling on somebody who might have a little more upside, but who is more likely to turn out to be a flat out bust.

[SenorGato]

I actually like the White/Wallace comp as players, White is taller THO

[SonnyJet]

It's like these Kevin White fanatics are having a dumb-off. Let's see who wins. My money is on JetBlue, followed by SonnyJet.

Lol this mad me chuckle...I changed my tune on cooper I'm happy with either one. Cooper in the slot would be helpful for any qb back there. When Marshall is done he can fit on the outside. I also like kevin white prototypical nfl size, speed, and ball skills. Don't get to carried away with production as well and not accounting upside. Watkins had a better career than odell and evans. Who do you think will have better NFL careers?

[SenorGato]

I actually like the Wallace comp on white, he's just taller is all.

[SonnyJet]

I actually like the Wallace comp on white, he's just taller is all.

Yea like mike Wallace is a physical wr and attacks the ball in the air with great hands. LMFAO

[DaBallhawk]

Yea like mike Wallace is a physical wr and attacks the ball in the air with great hands. LMFAO

 

Enough already, this isn't Gronk we're talking about. He wasn't that good blocking or even in jump ball situations to begin with. He's not gonna be a force in those areas in the NFL, it's not gonna be a big part of his game. He'll earn his stripes as a deep threat a la Mike Wallace. He's not a 100+ rec. kind of guy, year in year out, like Fitz, Marshall, Andre Johnson. He's more in the 60-70 rec. range, doing most of the damage on deep balls, making bigplays. In a perfect world for him to flourish you want to pair him up with a stud veteran (#1), a good QB, and a good passing attack (NO, IND, NE, NYG etc.). That's when he'll shine. I don't think you can count on him being a go to guy in a bad offense, when you ask him to put the offense on his back, go against #1 corners on every snap, have a bad QB throw him the ball. Amari is the exact opposite, at least in my opinion. You can plug him in any offense you want, he'll put the offense on his back, he can get 10, 15 receptions in a game, no matter who throws him the ball. He'll put up decent stats and get open, move the chains. He doesn't need a great offense, he doesn't need a stud wideout on the other side to take pressure off him, he doesn't need a good QB. He's the right pick for every team. White would be a (maybe better) option for some teams that have a good QB and a #1 receiver in place already. But he'd fall flat on his face if he's asked to carry an NFL offense. If he's in Buffalo (two years ago), he'd be absolutely lost there, considered a major bust. Sammy Watkins can handle it. Amari could handle it.

 

That's why we throw the name Mike Wallace out there. He can't carry an offense. That's why the Fitzgerald/Marshall comparison is silly. Those guys can. Amari can. Julio Jones can. AJ Green can. I just don't see Kevin White in that group, especially not with 1 year under his belt in College.

[JetBlue]

Yea like mike Wallace is a physical wr and attacks the ball in the air with great hands. LMFAO

Makes sense to me lol.  

[JetBlue]

I fully agree with you on these two, I think they are both going to be busts. The worst case of this was Tavon Austin and the Rams made the mistake of jumping way up to draft him early in the first round. I don't think you will see the same thing out of White though I think he has much better hands than Austin, Dorsett or Perriman. White is going to be a good NFL player, I think Cooper will be better I can definitely see Cooper being the next Julio Jones as a lot of "experts" have compared him to. I have a gut feeling Parker is going to be a bust though, I know tons of people love the guy but I just think he is going to flop.

Why would you assume they are going to be busts?  They were considered no worse than 2nd or 3rd round picks before the combine or pro days.   They might get drafted earlier than they "value" dictates, but I don't see either one of them becoming busts. 

[SonnyJet]

Enough already, this isn't Gronk we're talking about. He wasn't that good blocking or even in jump ball situations to begin with. He's not gonna be a force in those areas in the NFL, it's not gonna be a big part of his game. He'll earn his stripes as a deep threat a la Mike Wallace. He's not a 100+ rec. kind of guy, year in year out, like Fitz, Marshall, Andre Johnson. He's more in the 60-70 rec. range, doing most of the damage on deep balls, making bigplays. In a perfect world for him to flourish you want to pair him up with a stud veteran (#1), a good QB, and a good passing attack (NO, IND, NE, NYG etc.). That's when he'll shine. I don't think you can count on him being a go to guy in a bad offense, when you ask him to put the offense on his back, go against #1 corners on every snap, have a bad QB throw him the ball. Amari is the exact opposite, at least in my opinion. You can plug him in any offense you want, he'll put the offense on his back, he can get 10, 15 receptions in a game, no matter who throws him the ball. He'll put up decent stats and get open, move the chains. He doesn't need a great offense, he doesn't need a stud wideout on the other side to take pressure off him, he doesn't need a good QB. He's the right pick for every team. White would be a (maybe better) option for some teams that have a good QB and a #1 receiver in place already. But he'd fall flat on his face if he's asked to carry an NFL offense. If he's in Buffalo (two years ago), he'd be absolutely lost there, considered a major bust. Sammy Watkins can handle it. Amari could handle it.

 

That's why we throw the name Mike Wallace out there. He can't carry an offense. That's why the Fitzgerald/Marshall comparison is silly. Those guys can. Amari can. Julio Jones can. AJ Green can. I just don't see Kevin White in that group, especially not with 1 year under his belt in College.

We will see

[Villain The Foe]

I fully agree with you on these two, I think they are both going to be busts. The worst case of this was Tavon Austin and the Rams made the mistake of jumping way up to draft him early in the first round. I don't think you will see the same thing out of White though I think he has much better hands than Austin, Dorsett or Perriman. White is going to be a good NFL player, I think Cooper will be better I can definitely see Cooper being the next Julio Jones as a lot of "experts" have compared him to. I have a gut feeling Parker is going to be a bust though, I know tons of people love the guy but I just think he is going to flop.

 

Thanks. And I dont think that White is a bad WR. But everyone knows why the comparison is daily talk today. I never said that White was never compared to Cooper, Im simply saying that when the comparison was made mid season when White had like 7 consecutive 100+ yard games then of course scouts will make the comparison of the "new kid" to the guy who's been doing it for years in Cooper. However by the end of the season, after watching white tail off in the second half while Amari continued on his trajectory then it was pretty much evident by December who was the clear cut #1 prospect at the position. When White ran the 4.35 everyone and their mother was surprised because no one even expected that. And its because his track speed doesnt translate on the field. 

 

I hear you on Parker, which it could very well happen. Any of these guys could bust. This is why you take into consideration the top prospects in regards to their ranking coming out of college but you still look for your favorites. Amari, White and Parker are the top 3 WR's in this class, but my 3 personal favorites are Devin Smith, Amari Cooper and Kenny Bell in that order. Two of those three are projected as 2nd round and 4th round picks. I'd rather have Smith or Bell than White or Parker given what I see in their respective games. 

 

I dont want people to think that im saying that White sucks or I think he's going to bust. All im saying is that he was widely considered the #2/#3 WR in this class pre combine for a reason. Lets not allow the masses to reach for the stars because he ran a fast time and 1 or 2 guys mid season made a comparison so its cool to make this a daily topic. White isn't on the same level because he's not as complete. He has his qualities of course, but he's closer to raw than he is to a complete WR, while Cooper is closer to a complete WR than a raw WR. 

[derp]

For what it's worth, I think the Fitz comparison is just because they look alike on the field since they both have dreads and wear 11. Maybe a bit because White does have pretty good body control on deep balls. But I don't think it's a fair comparison.

[DaBallhawk]

For what it's worth, I think the Fitz comparison is just because they look alike on the field since they both have dreads and wear 11. Maybe a bit because White does have pretty good body control on deep balls. But I don't think it's a fair comparison.

 

Same goes for the Julio Jones comparison. It's pretty funny actually.

 

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

For what it's worth, I think the Fitz comparison is just because they look alike on the field since they both have dreads and wear 11. Maybe a bit because White does have pretty good body control on deep balls. But I don't think it's a fair comparison.

I agree. He high points the ball well, and Fitz also did so in college, however, Fitz was well known for catching any football no matter how good or bad the throw. When has Kevin White ever been known for that? Outside of high pointing deep balls well (which many WR's outside of Fitz do) what makes his game similar? I just don't see it.

 

I do see a guy who plays until the Whistle though. There's much about his game to like, the guy is physical. 

[T0mShane]

Let's cite Todd McShay blurbs and call each other idiots!

[dbatesman]

So when did we go from "more of a Mike Wallace" to "he's exactly the same guy"? I said he's more of a Mike Wallace.

We didn't. You're the most consistently butthurt poster here.

[bealeb319]

Why would you assume they are going to be busts?  They were considered no worse than 2nd or 3rd round picks before the combine or pro days.   They might get drafted earlier than they "value" dictates, but I don't see either one of them becoming busts. 

 

I see Dorsett as a duplicate of Tavon Austin. I think he will have some success of special teams but the biggest thing he has is that he is fast. He will eventually get hit and like all undersize recievers the experts claim he is tougher than he looks. I think he will have a short and unsuccessful NFL career. Perriman I think is a better prospect he has the size in his favor, to me he just doesn't seem like playing the position comes natural to him. I think Perriman might have some success in the NFL but I don't think he will ever be a #1 receiver or even one of the better #2 guys. I would take a swing on either of these guys past the third round but in round 1 or 2 some team is going to be very disappointed in what they get and I really hope that the Jets are not that team.

[derp]

I typed a bit for this response, then realized that it didnt matter that much to me. I was around pre and post combine to see what actually happened. Why argue about it?

 

Semantics, I guess. It doesn't really matter. I am still curious of what you don't like about White on the field - is it just the lack of polish and one year wonder thing?

 

For what it's worth, Rotoworld has nice player pages for prospects - particularly the top ones - that summarize news starting with the most recent. So I did go back and confirm what I thought happened with those guys, not just making things up. They can be pretty cool to read through. White's is particularly interesting - he did "rise" pre-combine but during the season the talk went from day 2 to late first and just kept going up from there.

 

 

Also the Jones comp I think is more valid than the Fitzgerald comp - not that it's a great comp or White is a Jones level freak but it's a better one than Fitz. He's not too far off physically and they impact the game in similar ways. Both are really physically talented, make things happen after the catch due to physicality, and do more damage on screens and downfield plays than in the intermediate areas of the field. Jones has obviously polished up some since coming into the league and is an unreal player. Just think it's a better comparison than Fitzgerald.

[RutgersJetFan]

I get draft writers need material, but reality is that between the two it is not close at all. Cooper is the surest thing in this draft.

[RutgersJetFan]

We didn't. You're the most consistently butthurt poster here.

Habitual. He's a habitual line stepper.

[JetsFanInDenver]

So this thread was fun.

[cant wait]

Thanks. And I dont think that White is a bad WR. But everyone knows why the comparison is daily talk today. I never said that White was never compared to Cooper, Im simply saying that when the comparison was made mid season when White had like 7 consecutive 100+ yard games then of course scouts will make the comparison of the "new kid" to the guy who's been doing it for years in Cooper. However by the end of the season, after watching white tail off in the second half while Amari continued on his trajectory then it was pretty much evident by December who was the clear cut #1 prospect at the position. When White ran the 4.35 everyone and their mother was surprised because no one even expected that. And its because his track speed doesnt translate on the field.

I hear you on Parker, which it could very well happen. Any of these guys could bust. This is why you take into consideration the top prospects in regards to their ranking coming out of college but you still look for your favorites. Amari, White and Parker are the top 3 WR's in this class, but my 3 personal favorites are Devin Smith, Amari Cooper and Kenny Bell in that order. Two of those three are projected as 2nd round and 4th round picks. I'd rather have Smith or Bell than White or Parker given what I see in their respective games.

I dont want people to think that im saying that White sucks or I think he's going to bust. All im saying is that he was widely considered the #2/#3 WR in this class pre combine for a reason. Lets not allow the masses to reach for the stars because he ran a fast time and 1 or 2 guys mid season made a comparison so its cool to make this a daily topic. White isn't on the same level because he's not as complete. He has his qualities of course, but he's closer to raw than he is to a complete WR, while Cooper is closer to a complete WR than a raw WR.

You can always tell who's in love with a player when they start referring to them by their first name

[32EBoozer]

So this thread was fun.

Yeah, it's amazing how difficult MacDaddy's decision will be if these are the top 2 players left at #6. Personally, I go Cooper.

[Villain The Foe]

Semantics, I guess. It doesn't really matter. I am still curious of what you don't like about White on the field - is it just the lack of polish and one year wonder thing?

 

For what it's worth, Rotoworld has nice player pages for prospects - particularly the top ones - that summarize news starting with the most recent. So I did go back and confirm what I thought happened with those guys, not just making things up. They can be pretty cool to read through. White's is particularly interesting - he did "rise" pre-combine but during the season the talk went from day 2 to late first and just kept going up from there.

 

 

Also the Jones comp I think is more valid than the Fitzgerald comp - not that it's a great comp or White is a Jones level freak but it's a better one than Fitz. He's not too far off physically and they impact the game in similar ways. Both are really physically talented, make things happen after the catch due to physicality, and do more damage on screens and downfield plays than in the intermediate areas of the field. Jones has obviously polished up some since coming into the league and is an unreal player. Just think it's a better comparison than Fitzgerald.

The bold pretty much sums it up. Its not that I dont like White. I just think that a 22 year old physically dominated in college, playing against alot of 18, 19 and 20 year olds. A guy like Cooper dominated with skill as an 18 year old against alot of 18, 19 and 20 year olds, and continued to do so during is college career. 

[Villain The Foe]

You can always tell who's in love with a player when they start referring to them by their first name

Because I called Amari by his name? I wouldnt call it love. He's not even my favorite WR in the draft. 

[cant wait]

Because I called Amari by his name? I wouldnt call it love. He's not even my favorite WR in the draft.

It's just an attachment thing I guess. I see it all the time in fantasy too when guys have their favorite players

[DaBallhawk]

It's just an attachment thing I guess. I see it all the time in fantasy too when guys have their favorite players

 

It has nothing to do with favorite whatnot. Amari is a very unique name. Should he have gone with "Cooper" instead? Like a drill seargent? Should he spell out the whole thing even though everybody gets who he's referring to if he starts with "Amari"? It's just way more convenient to just go with Amari. Kevin White is the most generic name in the history.

[Jet Life]

Would take Cooper, but to say White is only where he is because of the combine is completely false. Watch the games

[JetBlue]

I see Dorsett as a duplicate of Tavon Austin. I think he will have some success of special teams but the biggest thing he has is that he is fast. He will eventually get hit and like all undersize recievers the experts claim he is tougher than he looks. I think he will have a short and unsuccessful NFL career. Perriman I think is a better prospect he has the size in his favor, to me he just doesn't seem like playing the position comes natural to him. I think Perriman might have some success in the NFL but I don't think he will ever be a #1 receiver or even one of the better #2 guys. I would take a swing on either of these guys past the third round but in round 1 or 2 some team is going to be very disappointed in what they get and I really hope that the Jets are not that team.

 

Does the name Santana Moss ring any bells?  Dorsett is a more likely to have a career like him and is absolutely nothing like Austin in playing style.   I don't know where you are getting that from.  Nor are you siting any reasons why his career will be short and unsuccessful.  You act like there are no undersized receivers excelling in the NFL.  Perriman is a beast and once he improves his route running should have a very nice career and can develop into a solid number 2 if not a number 1 at some point.  A lot will depend on who drafts these players and what systems they wind up in but both have what it takes to have successful NFL careers.