Don't get this Leonard Williams pick at all

[bealeb319]

For once we agree. Williams was the right pick and a steal. I would have preferred Kevin White but if we get OBJ at 37 I will come in my pants.

 

Assuming you mean DGB. Going to be a tough decision if him and Gregory both fall to us.

[drdetroit]

Assuming you mean DGB. Going to be a tough decision if him and Gregory both fall to us.

Yes I meant DGB and it's DGB all the way at 37. Gregory's pot head ass can go away.

[Scoop24]

Yes I meant DGB and it's DGB all the way at 37. Gregory's pot head ass can go away.

your all in on the guy that threw his girl down a flight of stairs but your mad at the guy who smokes weed .. Crazy world

BTW I'm not opposed to Either player

[bealeb319]

Yes I meant DGB and it's DGB all the way at 37. Gregory's pot head ass can go away.

 

DGB also had pot charges (though he was smart enough not to use it right before the combine) but DGB also had assault charges and I think there were multiples, but if pot is your deciding factor we take neither player. Gregory has a motor and could be an excellent pass rusher either player is considered a top 10 talent outside of their issues but our defense on paper could be the best the nfl has ever seen if we can land a premier pass rusher now.

[drdetroit]

Lmao your all in on the guy that threw his girl down a flight of stairs but your mad at the guy who smokes weed .. Crazy world

And when Gregory averages one sack per season when he's not getting suspended for drugs you'll be talking about how crazy a world it is

[drdetroit]

DGB also had pot charges (though he was smart enough not to use it right before the combine) but DGB also had assault charges and I think there were multiples, but if pot is your deciding factor we take neither player. Gregory has a motor and could be an excellent pass rusher either player is considered a top 10 talent outside of their issues but our defense on paper could be the best the nfl has ever seen if we can land a premier pass rusher now.

I don't like Gregory as a player. His production in college wasn't great he had 7 sacks last season, he plays high and doesn't get low enough. I actually prefer Double O to Gregory you guys overrate him.

[Scoop24]

And when Gregory averages one sack per season when he's not getting suspended for drugs you'll be talking about how crazy a world it is

Yes cause all players that smoke weed are Josh Gordon ..

DGB smokes weed too

So does Shane Ray who was being call steal in the late 1st round ..

[bealeb319]

I don't like Gregory as a player. His production in college wasn't great he had 7 sacks last season, he plays high and doesn't get low enough. I actually prefer Double O to Gregory you guys overrate him.

 

I don't mind Double O either but I don't think any LB left has the motor that Gregory does, playing high is a bad habbit that could be coached out. Speed, burst, acceleration is a gift that cant be trained.

[drdetroit]

Yes cause all players that smoke weed are Josh Gordon ..

DGB smokes weed too

So does Shane Ray who was being call steal in the late 1st round ..

Do you think before you type? Gregory flunked a urinalysis he knew about months in advance. What the hell do you think is going to happen when he gets random UA's in the nfl?

[bergenjets]

Luckily, that's unlikely. I think if the Jets were choosing between Cooper and Williams at #6, they would've gone with Cooper because the prospects would've been ranked closely, but WR was the bigger need. But when they were on the clock, there weren't any prospects closely rated to Williams. It was the right pick. 

 

Next round, seems unlikely that a DT would again be that far ahead of the rest of the field. I would, however, not hesitate to take an Eli Howard if he was on the top of my draft board. I wouldn't force a pick on offense just because I drafted defense in the first round. I'd go BAP straight down my draft board, with need being the tie-breaker. 

 

Thank you for a breath of sanity.

[bealeb319]

Do you think before you type? Gregory flunked a urinalysis he knew about months in advance. What the hell do you think is going to happen when he gets random UA's in the nfl?

 

Bowels is supposed to be a pretty strict no nonsense coach, hopefully he can straighten the kid out. I am not opposed to DGB or Strong at 37 either.

[derp]

 So if we take another DT next year in the first, are you still gonna play this card? At one point does it become overkill? when you have 9 DTs? We have Wilkerson, RIchardson, Harrison, AND Coples - ought to be playing DT as well. It's not like i'm trashing Williams, but at some point you have to look at your roster and say, ya that's not necessary. 

 

I didn't like the pick either. But I do think it's worth giving some time given the reaction to the Richardson pick, and I'm curious to see how it plays out. They're not keeping all these guys on the roster long-term - although that doesn't really make the pick any better.

[papz187]

Now do we take Gregory if he's available when we pick?

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[JustInFudge]

Nope, not angry in any form.  Just intellectually and analytically in disagreement.  I presume that's still permitted, correct?

 

The Jets Offense has been (and is) one of the very worst in the NFL for most of a decade.

 

Our D, even in bad times, was Top 10 in most things other than turnovers.

 

The position he plays was already filled on our roster by a 1st round Pro-Bowler.

 

I fully appreciate and agree that a number of experts viewed him as the "BAP" non-QB.

 

I do not agree with BAP drafting and never have.  Ignoring needs and existing assets is how you end up with 3 1st rounders on your D-line and a 4 win season due to a perennially 31st ranked Offense IMO.

 

Yes, I would have drafted the WR, because our O needs vastly help far more than our D, and a WR could (stress could) be a difference maker, another D-lineman (IMO) will not be.  

 

Once again, I'm confident that if Rex Ryan had made this pick, it would be universally being panned by Jets Fans right now.  It's only popular because of the new regime and the (understandable) leeway we give them.

 

I fear (as a fan) yet more 13-3 type losses in our future.  A WR could have IMO effected that.  I simply don't see a DL doing so, even if he was BAP.

 

We definitely disagree on this.  When you have a chance to take the best player in the draft, your current roster in irrelevant, you take him.

 

But let me ask you this, how are you going feel about the pick if they take the best available WR in the second?  There are some great names out there still.    Strong, Beckham, Lockett, Smith.Greene, Coates, Conley...these guys are all solid prospects.  Yeah, they're not Kevin White...but them plus Williams is better than White + god only knows who in the 2nd.  This is a deep WR and RB class.  Plenty of time to still address offense.  Its a cool thing, the draft doesnt end after the 1st. 

 

And to your other point, how many more wins did Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr or Kelvin Benjamin get for there teams?   The answer is zero.

 

And its not like the Jets didnt add Brandon Marshall in the offseason. 

[papz187]

At least the draft is deep at WR and RB positions, so we can still get some offensive weapons.

If we have a shot at Gregory that would be hard to pass up too I think.

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[Augustiniak]

I don't think they'd take dwb in the 2nd.  I actually think they may go rb, they'd have their choice, and if there's one they really like they should take him.  geno needs someone to check down to, and it's a big part of the new offense.  my guess is Abdullah.

[Klecko73isGod]

LEONARD WILLIAMS IS COMING TO NEW YORK AND HE'S BRINGIN' HELL WITH HIM!!!!!

[Jetsfan80]

We had 2 elite football players on our roster heading into this draft.  Williams, above maybe anyone in this draft class, is the "safest" bet to become a 3rd elite player for us.  The position shouldn't dictate who you take there.  Draft elite football players and figure the rest out.

 

I don't think this is a signal that the Jets are definitely trading Wilkerson either.  It's a signal that an elite football player was on the board, so the Jets drafted said elite football player.  Were we supposed to pass on him because we were concerned about how it would look to Mo?  Absolutely not.  Blame the Redskins for being stupid, not Maccagnan for taking Williams.  Had we taken White and let Williams head to the Bears, we'd be having a lot of buyer's remorse right now.

[Obrien2Toon]

If it was Cooper there instead of White, then it's a no brainer. You take the WR

But White is far from a sure thing

[HessStation]

Richardson - Wilk - Harrison - Williams

I can only imagine how dominant our defense woll be, especially with our corners. **** this thread.

 

Also, the year Coples really dominated the ACC was his Jr year as a DT. Even as a pro he's looked much better and more comfortable inside, where he can use his great hands and sorta slide through gaps. 

[Obrien2Toon]

Now do we take Gregory if he's available when we pick?

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i would love it. 2 of the top 5 talents in the draft. If not 2 of the top 3 talents.

But I think it's either RB or WR

[Klecko73isGod]

We had 2 elite football players on our roster heading into this draft.  Williams, above maybe anyone in this draft class, is the "safest" bet to become a 3rd elite player for us.  The position shouldn't dictate who you take there.  Draft elite football players and figure the rest out.

 

I don't think this is a signal that the Jets are definitely trading Wilkerson either.  It's a signal that an elite football player was on the board, so the Jets drafted said elite football player.  Were we supposed to pass on him because we were concerned about how it would look to Mo?  Absolutely not.  Blame the Redskins for being stupid, not Maccagnan for taking Williams.  Had we taken White and let Williams head to the Bears, we'd be having a lot of buyer's remorse right now.

 

I wanted Kevin White. But I also never thought in a million years that Williams would still be on the board when we drafted. 

 

Going into this draft, had we had the number one overall pick, I would have wanted either Williams or Mariota and would have been happy with either pick. 

 

Based on where we were actually picking, White was the guy I was really rooting for and was thrilled when the Raiders took Amari Cooper because although I think Cooper may be more ready to step in and play, White has the higher ceiling. 

 

When Williams dropped to 7 I lost it. This was a dream scenario. The Jets couldn't go wrong with either pick IMO. They took the guy that had number 1 on their board. Love the philosophy, love, love, LOVE the pick. 

[kmnj]

We definitely disagree on this.  When you have a chance to take the best player in the draft, your current roster in irrelevant, you take him.

 

But let me ask you this, how are you going feel about the pick if they take the best available WR in the second?  There are some great names out there still.    Strong, Beckham, Lockett, Smith.Greene, Coates, Conley...these guys are all solid prospects.  Yeah, they're not Kevin White...but them plus Williams is better than White + god only knows who in the 2nd.  This is a deep WR and RB class.  Plenty of time to still address offense.  Its a cool thing, the draft doesnt end after the 1st. 

 

And to your other point, how many more wins did Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr or Kelvin Benjamin get for there teams?   The answer is zero.

 

And its not like the Jets didnt add Brandon Marshall in the offseason. 

bolded for being 1000%  wrong-OBJ won about three games for the giants 

[Sperm Edwards]

there's no guarantees a star player at a position of need will be available at that price

He didn't say we can bring in another $10-12M player. He said we have another $10-12M to bring in another star player. Sounds similar but it's not really.

The team isn't limited to the additional space cleared.

Put it this way. Say there is your dream vet star but he wants $15M not $10-12M. The net cost is now around $4M, which is affordable, rather than $15M, which is not.

The best argument against (the "meh" in clearing $10-12M in cap space) was from CTM. In so many words, I don't want to find out we made 25 year-old (and still getting better) Wilkerson expendable so we were better able to re-sign 31 year old (and progressively getting worse and even slower still) David Harris plus one $3M non-starting role player.

[CTM]

I just think the cap can usually be worked around if you're smart, extending players, using roster instead of signing bonus (like we did this year).

My main point is that I don't think trading Mo today makes sense. Next year, if he can be a chip to land Rivers then ya, but moving him for a late first rounder doesn't make us better when we could've kept him and drafted Gurley or White

[JustInFudge]

bolded for being 1000%  wrong-OBJ won about three games for the giants 

 

If you say so.  They still won 6 games.   Pretty sh*tty. 

[Scoop24]

i would love it. 2 of the top 5 talents in the draft. If not 2 of the top 3 talents.

But I think it's either RB or WR

Exactly my point from talent stand Point Gregory is a steal at #37.

[Ghost]

We definitely disagree on this. When you have a chance to take the best player in the draft, your current roster in irrelevant, you take him.

But let me ask you this, how are you going feel about the pick if they take the best available WR in the second? There are some great names out there still. Strong, Beckham, Lockett, Smith.Greene, Coates, Conley...these guys are all solid prospects. Yeah, they're not Kevin White...but them plus Williams is better than White + god only knows who in the 2nd. This is a deep WR and RB class. Plenty of time to still address offense. Its a cool thing, the draft doesnt end after the 1st.

And to your other point, how many more wins did Sammy Watkins, Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Jr or Kelvin Benjamin get for there teams? The answer is zero.

And its not like the Jets didnt add Brandon Marshall in the offseason.

I really like you more when you're positive.

[JustInFudge]

I just think the cap can usually be worked around if you're smart, extending players, using roster instead of signing bonus (like we did this year).

My main point is that I don't think trading Mo today makes sense. Next year, if he can be a chip to land Rivers then ya, but moving him for a late first rounder doesn't make us better when we could've kept him and drafted Gurley or White

 

The cap increases yearly, right?  Draft picks in the top 10 are half the price they used to cost.  There shouldnt be any reason that Big Mac cant figure out how to feed all these mouths.  He's got an insane amount of money invested in to corners right now but from what I've read, they can get out of a lot of those contracts next season and have minimal impact to the cap.  Then you just hope Milliner and McDougle figure it out and it makes Cro, Gilchrist and Skrine expendable if necessary.

 

The caveat is if they land a franchise QB.  They've got to have money tucked away for that scenario and might have to move some people to create room...but thats not happening this year so, I dont see this need to move Mo.  Not at all.  If anything, it should increase your urgency to keep him. 

[JohnnyLV]

Just dumb. What is Williams' ceiling? Let's be kind and say slightly better than Wilkerson. Now a lot of people say trade Wilkerson for a 1st. Okay, let's say that can be done, we trade in and get who? Someone who was available at 6, and options are more limited than what they would be if we picked at 6 since players are coming off the board. 

 

Different Scenario you keep Williams and Wilkerson. You run a 4-3 now? What do you do with Harrison? How much better is this line than our 3-4 line? Still yet to be seen if that would work out with Coples, Wilkerson, Richardson, and Williams, who are all basically (3-4 ends and 4-3 tackles). Plus two years down the road let's say you re-sign Wilkerson. You then have to pay Richardson, and then you have to Williams. Everyone's cool with spending a third of our cap on the DLine when our offense is trash?

 

Only way this trade makes sense, is if you swing Wilkerson and some pick for Rivers. If that happens, I'll shut up and celebrate. But, I'll believe that when I see it.

 

You obviously can't blindly pick by need in the draft, but this notion that you have to take the best player available no matter what isn't right either, as proven by this pick.

 

His "ceiling" is Reggie White. So your initial premise is off. He has HOF ceiling. He was not BPA, he was the best player in the draft by a pretty large margin, and the 5 times above us, and actually almost all teams, drafted for need over BPA. You had to pick him. Most teams can be pretty disruptive with one top DL, which is super hard to find, we now have 3, and a well above average lineman in Snacks. With Williams we can play so many devastating combinations that we will be a nightmare to play on defense. Bowles is known for creating unique defenses built around the strengths of his players. He played a four tackle front against Dallas last year. He is not a system guy.

 

Also, keep in mind we got the clear best player in the draft, AND he is coming into the best possible situation to fully develop his talents. I want to hate the pick, but it was not like we picked DL again from a group of equals, we picked the best prospect in the entire draft that in many peoples minds was an entire round grade better than anyone else. Think about that.

[Warfish]

/FACEPALM

 

Wrote a long detailed reply to slats, accidentally hit some key, and lost the whole damn thing.

 

/sigh

 

So short(er) version:  If we draft a WR (2nd), QB (third) and O-Lineman (4th) over the next two days, I would be very pleased overall with this draft class, despite my difference of strategic opinion over the top pick.

 

I have no doubt Williams is the best non-QB in a weak overall draft class, so it's not him or his talent I question.  He shouldn't be a Ghost, he'll probably be a solid starter (although I'd hold off calling him our next Klecko as some have done).

 

With that said, The D without Williams I would have projected as Top 10, maybe Top 5.  That has not changed at all.  The O, right now, is still Sub-15 in my view.  I liked the Marshall pick (especially the price), but he's not to be relied on especially long term IMO.  Decker is the only truly reliable top-end WR we have.  Marshall could be anything (good or bad), Kerley is a JAG.  WR is a vital position, especially with our weakness at QB.

 

End of the day, I simply hold a different view of how to Draft than many do.  I have never agreed with BAP.  I have always supported BAP-NEED.  Williams was the BAP, i agree.  White was the BAP-NEED IMO.

 

But yes slats, if we get a WR who is only a slight dropoff from White, potential and talent wise, I can happily live with that, especially if it's followed up by a QB and an O-Lineman.

[Jetlife33]

I think why I was initially more upset with the pick than others is because I valued White more than most, which I could be totally wrong about. I think he's going to be a monster and have less doubt than many do. With that said after a night to sleep on it I trust Mac made the right decision and he stuck to BAP, which I salute him for. It would've been great if there was a trade back partner willing to pay big for the 6 spot, but oh well. Excited to see what happens in round 2.

[slats]

I have never agreed with BAP.  I have always supported BAP-NEED.  Williams was the BAP, i agree.  White was the BAP-NEED IMO.

 

But yes slats, if we get a WR who is only a slight dropoff from White, potential and talent wise, I can happily live with that, especially if it's followed up by a QB and an O-Lineman.

 

Like I said in another post, I think that if Cooper was on the board he would've/might've been the pick. But the difference in talent (and safety) between Williams and White was just too great to pass on Williams.

 

IMO, the BAP strategy always does more to strengthen the team than drafting for need. Especially where the Jets are coming from as a 4-12 team rebuilding under a new regime. They shored up most of their needs during the free agency period, and set themselves up perfectly to go BAP, and when (perhaps) the best player in the draft fell into their laps, they were able to take him. Solid plan, even better execution, IMHO. 

 

I don't need a WR in the second round. The second appears to be shaping up similarly to the first, where they'll be choosing between a pass rusher and a WR. If they determine that the pass rusher is the better prospect, that's the way they should go. In this case, not only would it be a BAP thing, but it would also be the greater need. 

 

Not gonna lie, though. If they go defense in the first two rounds, I'd definitely be looking for a WR or RB in the third. 

[Warfish]

Like I said in another post, I think that if Cooper was on the board he would've/might've been the pick. But the difference in talent (and safety) between Williams and White was just too great to pass on Williams.

 

IMO, the BAP strategy always does more to strengthen the team than drafting for need. Especially where the Jets are coming from as a 4-12 team rebuilding under a new regime. They shored up most of their needs during the free agency period, and set themselves up perfectly to go BAP, and when (perhaps) the best player in the draft fell into their laps, they were able to take him. Solid plan, even better execution, IMHO. 

 

I don't need a WR in the second round. The second appears to be shaping up similarly to the first, where they'll be choosing between a pass rusher and a WR. If they determine that the pass rusher is the better prospect, that's the way they should go. In this case, not only would it be a BAP thing, but it would also be the greater need. 

 

Not gonna lie, though. If they go defense in the first two rounds, I'd definitely be looking for a WR or RB in the third. 

 

If we draft D-Line and then DE/Pass Rusher with #1 and #2.......when we have one of the worst Offenses in the NFL and spent most of our FA Capital on Defense........I will be disappointed.

 

I won't be able to help it, because I honestly don't that that helps us win more games, given all factors involved.  Even the #1 overall Defense needs to score points to win games.

 

I've very much liked this new Front Office and how they've done business.  I do have faith.

 

But another year of watching a bottom-5 quality offense fail to score, and losing games 6-3.....that would be tough.

 

Faith in Mac, I suppose.

[The Crusher]

I appreciate this kid was well considered, "best" non-QB pick in the draft so some say.  It's not a bad pick in any form on that metric.

 

What I don't understand, and have never supported, is picking BAP without consideration of need.

 

Put simply, DL was not in any form a need.  Rex makes this pick, the entire Board (IMO) is against it.

 

It's very hard to see how the addition of this player will make any difference in our record the next 2-4 years tbqh.

 

The franchise is decades of deferred and desperate need on offense.  QB (the most vital position) is a weakness.  Our problem continues to be scoring, not defense.

 

And WR was available that was appropriate for the selection.

 

Yet we went D, and DL at that.

 

I'm glad everyone seems happy.  I'm not angry.

 

I simply wouldn't have made this pick, I'd have picked a WR.

 

With the "Has never been" and "Probably never will be" we have at QB not sure how much Kevin White helps us.  Plus anything that might make Brady's career more painful and come to an end quicker gives me the giggles.  Not hurt as much as beat brutally into retirement.