The Big Cat

[keysersoze]

This is false. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2008/profiles/vernon-gholston?id=756

 

That is literally the most basic scouting report and the one any mook looking to do a mock draft would refer to.  Probably based on Gil Brandt and /or Lance Zierlein

 

So again, why did he suck in the NFL if he was so good on paper? I'm trying to diagnose possible flaws in his mental approach that caused him to bust. According to reports such as this, he apparently he had zero flaws and his failure was completely random.

[Lupz27]

Didn't amount to much at the end of the day but I wish he'd just retired a Jet instead of playing for the Pats.

He single handily shut down Brady, and the Pats in the 2010 playoff game, at the end of the day his effort probably was the difference in that game, and he was long in the tooth at the time which goes to show you what great talent, and competitor he was, yes it sucked he went to the Pats, but at the end of the day it is really a business, and if the Pats were willing to give him that extra couple million his last season the Jets weren't willing to give him, at the end of the day he had to do what was right for his family to get that last pay day.

He will always be well remembered as one of the great Jets during my years as a fan.

[AFJF]

He single handily shut down Brady, and the Pats in the 2010 playoff game, at the end of the day his effort probably was the difference in that game, and he was long in the tooth at the time which goes to show you what great talent, and competitor he was, yes it sucked he went to the Pats, but at the end of the day it is really a business, and if the Pats were willing to give him that extra couple million his last season the Jets weren't willing to give him, at the end of the day he had to do what was right for his family to get that last pay day.

He will always be well remembered as one of the great Jets during my years as a fan.

 

Agreed on all counts...just glad his defection didn't amount to anything for the Pats.

[#27TheDominator]

Look at you defending the Mangini legacy. Playing 'possum this whole time.

 

I was actually surprised that they fired him when they did, but I didn't like him much.  IMO going after Favre went off course for him and Tannenbaum.  I thought they were developing something, but then they went all in on a guy that didn't want to be here and didn't listen to the coaches.  Mangini is exactly the kind of coach I hate.  

 

So again, why did he suck in the NFL if he was so good on paper? I'm trying to diagnose possible flaws in his mental approach that caused him to bust. According to reports such as this, he apparently he had zero flaws and his failure was completely random.

 

I don't know, but the idea that he was a reach is pretty farfetched.  Every pick does not turn out as planned.  The Seahawks picked Curry who won the Butkus and had a combine similar to Gholston.  He was considered among the safest picks in the draft.  He busted too.  I will admit that personally I liked the Gholston pick.  I watched one Ohio State game that year and it was the Michigan game where he was a beast.  I remember thinking too bad the Jets never have a shot at a guy like this.  I actually wanted Matt Ryan because I thought  they needed a QB more, but figured they would need to trade up. 

[Thor99]

Wow.  He was bad in the NFL, so he must have sucked in college.  I guess we should go back and review Aaron Curry at Wake Forest .  Maybe he should give back the Butkus award.  I mean he couldn't have been that good in college - he sucked in the NFL.

I'm pretty sure Curry sucked because he was 53 years old.

[FTL Jet Fan]

So again, why did he suck in the NFL if he was so good on paper? I'm trying to diagnose possible flaws in his mental approach that caused him to bust. According to reports such as this, he apparently he had zero flaws and his failure was completely random.

I think it was his mental approach as you stated. He was a monster but when he spoke and when you see how he conducted himself he just seemed very timid and didnt seem hungry at all. I know i will get killed for this but I see the same thing in LW, I know I know he was the BPA and I agree with the pick. I just dont see a nastry streak in LW. It concerns me that he fell to us at 6 especially with the Redskins passing on him and taking a Guard, even with the new GM Scot McCloughan making the picks, which many Jet fans wanted as the GM.

[JustInFudge]

FWIW, a few of the analytics guys looooooove Devin Smith, too.

 

4realz?  Good to know.  I was a bit worried about the pick until our resident scout film watching WR guru Villain eased my concerns with his vote of approval.  

[pointman]

4realz?  Good to know.  I was a bit worried about the pick until our resident scout film watching WR guru Villain eased my concerns with his vote of approval.  

Not that it matters, but Ray Lucas was asked the day before rd 2, on air at SNY, who he wanted to see the Jets to take in the second. He answered Devin Smith without even thinking. 

[DaBallhawk]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/4/14/8365157/2015-nfl-draft-leonard-williams-breakdown-scouting-report-damn-he-is-good

 

Good scouting report on Williams. Only 20 years old and his body is probably still maturing. Can't believe the Redskins passed on him for Scherrif.

 

They did the smart thing for once.

[Villain The Foe]

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/4/14/8365157/2015-nfl-draft-leonard-williams-breakdown-scouting-report-damn-he-is-good

 

Good scouting report on Williams. Only 20 years old and his body is probably still maturing. Can't believe the Redskins passed on him for Scherrif.

Scherrf wasnt a bad pick though. If the Skins are going to do anything in that division they're going to have to protect RG3 and establish that running game. They could have drafted Williams and ended up with yet another 4-12 record going through 2 or 3 QB's. Scherrf gives them an guy who is going to dictate and protect. It wasnt a sexy pick but it was the right move given their situation. If you want RG3 to finally play a full season then you must protect him. 

[artemusclyde]

Scherrf wasnt a bad pick though. If the Skins are going to do anything in that division they're going to have to protect RG3 and establish that running game. They could have drafted Williams and ended up with yet another 4-12 record going through 2 or 3 QB's. Scherrf gives them an guy who is going to dictate and protect. It wasnt a sexy pick but it was the right move given their situation. If you want RG3 to finally play a full season then you must protect him. 

 

It's a bad pick when you consider the fact that they could've gone for guys like TJ Clemmings, La'el Collins, or Jake Fischer in the later rounds. Scherrf is nowhere near as dominant as Williams was in college. Also, didn't Scherrf struggle in pass protection? Remember reading about him having trouble blocking during pass protection because of his length issues and him getting beat by speed.

[SenorGato]

Oh yeah, something something learning to win something something meaningless wins something something got the best player in the draft.

At the wrong position, amirite?!?!

[Villain The Foe]

It's a bad pick when you consider the fact that they could've gone for guys like TJ Clemmings, La'el Collins, or Jake Fischer in the later rounds. Scherrf is nowhere near as dominant as Williams was in college. Also, didn't Scherrf struggle in pass protection? Remember reading about him having trouble blocking during pass protection because of his length issues and him getting beat by speed.

By this logic you could say the very same thing about the Jets. That's like saying that the Jets made a bad pick if you consider that we have Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Snacks, Quinten Coples, Leger Douzable, TJ Barnes  etc. The Redskins figured that their need to protect the QB out weighed their need for a run stuffing disrupter. To make it seem like Scherrf wasnt worth the pick is ridiculous, especially when each year for the past 3 seasons their franchise QB has played less games than he did the prior season.

 

La'el Collins could have been a guy going to jail and the entire NFL passed on him 256 times because of it, TJ Clemmings was a day 3 pick up...not a top 5 prospect and Jake Fisher wasnt even the best player on that Oregon line. Most of all, none of these players (outside of Collins) was considered tops at their position. The Redskins drafted one of the top 3 best linemen in the draft, one that many would argue has the most upside. 

 

We all read alot of things. I also read that he "could" have problems against speed guys on the "NEXT LEVEL", but that was purely based on the fact that these critics/experts viewed him as a Guard, which those very same people stated that whomever drafted this guy would get a All-Pro guard for the next 10 years. By those standards they are basically saying that if you draft this guy you're pretty much guaranteed a year-to-year All-Pro/hall of fame Guard on the high end, to a probowl type RT on the low end. So if we're going on what we remember reading, it seems to me like Scherrf was absolutely worth a top 5 pick. Besides, I didnt hear any similar comparisons towards TJ Clemmings, Jake Fisher or even La'el Collins...did you?

 

You didnt like the pick which I understand. I didnt like the Williams pick as much as other people did. But like Williams, I totally understand the pick...actually, more so than I do our pick. My understanding of our pick is based on the fact that we literally took the best player available. I would have traded out of the pick, which the Jets tried to do but couldnt get something they liked in return. And because of that, I understand the pick. The Redskins pick was a mixture of need and best player available. You can argue that Williams was a better DE than Scherrf was an OLineman, but that would only be an "argument" not an actual fact. Scherrf's dominance was still worthy of a top 5 pick, especially with Collins no longer being a viable option for any team as we seen for 3 days straight at the draft, so I dont see the problem. 

[artemusclyde]

By this logic you could say the very same thing about the Jets. That's like saying that the Jets made a bad pick if you consider that we have Sheldon Richardson, Muhammad Wilkerson, Snacks, Quinten Coples, Leger Douzable, TJ Barnes  etc. The Redskins figured that their need to protect the QB out weighed their need for a run stuffing disrupter. To make it seem like Scherrf wasnt worth the pick is ridiculous, especially when each year for the past 3 seasons their franchise QB has played less games than he did the prior season.

 

La'el Collins could have been a guy going to jail and the entire NFL passed on him 256 times because of it, TJ Clemmings was a day 3 pick up...not a top 5 prospect and Jake Fisher wasnt even the best player on that Oregon line. Most of all, none of these players (outside of Collins) was considered tops at their position. The Redskins drafted one of the top 3 best linemen in the draft, one that many would argue has the most upside. 

 

We all read alot of things. I also read that he "could" have problems against speed guys on the "NEXT LEVEL", but that was purely based on the fact that these critics/experts viewed him as a Guard, which those very same people stated that whomever drafted this guy would get a All-Pro guard for the next 10 years. By those standards they are basically saying that if you draft this guy you're pretty much guaranteed a year-to-year All-Pro/hall of fame Guard on the high end, to a probowl type RT on the low end. So if we're going on what we remember reading, it seems to me like Scherrf was absolutely worth a top 5 pick. Besides, I didnt hear any similar comparisons towards TJ Clemmings, Jake Fisher or even La'el Collins...did you?

 

You didnt like the pick which I understand. I didnt like the Williams pick as much as other people did. But like Williams, I totally understand the pick...actually, more so than I do our pick. My understanding of our pick is based on the fact that we literally took the best player available. I would have traded out of the pick, which the Jets tried to do but couldnt get something they liked in return. And because of that, I understand the pick. The Redskins pick was a mixture of need and best player available. You can argue that Williams was a better DE than Scherrf was an OLineman, but that would only be an "argument" not an actual fact. Scherrf's dominance was still worthy of a top 5 pick, especially with Collins no longer being a viable option for any team as we seen for 3 days straight at the draft, so I dont see the problem. 

 

Reread my post. I don't know how the hell you got that statement from my post, but my point was that Williams was a significantly better player then Scherrf. Redskins reached on him for need, and are playing him out of position at right tackle. Also, it's a fact that Leonard Williams is a better dlineman then Scherrf is an olineman. He simply dominates. He is an excellent two gapper who constantly gets push, all while being able to pass rush. Their's a reason why the media has such a huge hard on for Williams. Meanwhile, Scherrf struggles in pass protection and has short arms. He's nowhere near as good as Zach Martin was and Martin was drafted at 16 overall. Redskins overreacted and are trying to copy Dallas's success with the oline but are simply overreaching for talent here. It's a dumb decision and honestly, if I was a redskins fan, I'd be concerned.

 

Also, where have you read that he was a probowl type rt? Most things I've read suggested that he can start at RT, but he should be played at guard because that's where most of his potential is. And while none of those players have the potential Scherrf has at guard, they have much higher potential at tackle simply because they fit the typical size and have better feet.

[Villain The Foe]

Reread my post. I don't know how the hell you got that statement from my post, but my point was that Williams was a significantly better player then Scherrf. Redskins reached on him for need, and are playing him out of position at right tackle. Also, it's a fact that Leonard Williams is a better dlineman then Scherrf is an olineman. He simply dominates. He is an excellent two gapper who constantly gets push, all while being able to pass rush. Their's a reason why the media has such a huge hard on for Williams. Meanwhile, Scherrf struggles in pass protection and has short arms. He's nowhere near as good as Zach Martin was and Martin was drafted at 16 overall. Redskins overreacted and are trying to copy Dallas's success with the oline but are simply overreaching for talent here. It's a dumb decision and honestly, if I was a redskins fan, I'd be concerned.

 

Also, where have you read that he was a probowl type rt? Most things I've read suggested that he can start at RT, but he should be played at guard because that's where most of his potential is. And while none of those players have the potential Scherrf has at guard, they have much higher potential at tackle simply because they fit the typical size and have better feet.

You're right. 

[Villain The Foe]

RSP Film room breakdown of Leonard Williams. Impressive. 

 

[drdetroit]

I just realized that he was playing off the edge on the first play in the video. Insane. You can literally line this guy up anywhere and he makes an impact.

He can go A, B or C gap and be effective everywhere he's quick enough.