Jump to content

RB dept. : Zac Stacy ~ ~ ~


kelly

Recommended Posts

James White was drafted to replace Vereen. He underwhelmed, but it doesn't diminish the fact that they were trying to make sure that role is filled long before he walked in FA. There's a third kid in the 3-way competition for that role right now. Bolden actually can catch too, he's just slow as ****.

 

Not sure why you asked "who?" when you provided most of the answer. 

 

Cadet is the only guy they added and he (along with the others) is basically trash and anything but the versatile back you claim "rb-savvy" coaches want.  Cadet has like 2 carries a year.  He can't run, he can only catch.  That is what you get in a third down back.  The backs the Pats use on 1st and 2nd are "power" backs like Ivory and Ridley.  That is exactly why Belichick drafted Ridley in the first place and gave him plenty of carries while he was there. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 104
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Cadet is the only guy they added and he (along with the others) is basically trash and anything but the versatile back you claim "rb-savvy" coaches want.  Cadet has like 2 carries a year.  He can't run, he can only catch.  That is what you get in a third down back.  The backs the Pats use on 1st and 2nd are "power" backs like Ivory and Ridley.  That is exactly why Belichick drafted Ridley in the first place and gave him plenty of carries while he was there. 

 

Dion Lewis and Cadet were added, and so was James White, "aggressively" meaning he was added last year to be groomed into the role before they had desperate need to fill it. They have a 3-man competition going on to fill the role of passing down RB, in an offense that passes WAY more than they like up to pound the ball. As I said, the only time they shift to a ground-and-pound offense is to close games out or to abuse defensive coordinators that refused to do anything but defend the pass. 

 

When the Patriots are in "we need to score" mode, they have the RB on the field that can run and catch. I ******* live here and have to watch them play every week, this is how this specific team is built to function. As I stated earlier, we don't have a Tom Brady, so it's really not a one-to-one comparison to what we do here and what our team's limitations become with less versatility on the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow, you guys sure work hard to tell me what I meant.

 

Vereen was used early in games. When the offense was in scoring mode. Blount, Ridley and Gray were used to close games out, or in cases where defense didn't adjust and gave up huge chunks of yards to the RB rather than shifting away from trying to stop Brady. 

 

I think you go RBBC unless you've got someone who can elevate the offense in any scenario by being on the field. I think you also have to have a guy that can spell your primary, whether that counts as a committee or not doesn't matter. I am hopeful that Powell can suddenly be that guy. Do you guys understand what "hope" means? I prefer what having an Arian Foster do-everything back brings to an offense. Ivory, Ridley and Stacy have all shown they can play. I never said they sucked, and I fully expect us to have a committee... but I hope that the new coaching staff can uncork something in Powell, that hasn't been uncorked by past coaches in the other guys.

 

I'm not trying to fight with you. I just don't agree that our RB must be of a certain flavor (or more correctly, a more equal mixture of flavors). If you have someone really good at something, use him and don't let philosophy override the personnel you've got.

 

I don't care what happened with Ivory when he was with New Orleans. It's also possible that Payton doesn't know everything about RB management. Maybe he flat-out disliked Ivory personally. Reggie Bush was Shane Vereen when he was with New Orleans, barely taking 5 handoffs per game his last 2 years there. When he went to Miami and then his 1st year in Detroit, he was a productive feature back with triple the carries/game.

 

IMO you're reading way too much into Payton letting Ivory go. He had other players and Ivory was a free agent. We let Powell go for nothing. The thing is, without having to cough up draft pick compensation, no one but the Jets showed any serious interest. New Orleans got a decent mid-level pick on Ivory when they had a logjam at the position and when Ivory was just a tagged RFA anyway who didn't sign his tender until he was told he could get traded (and therefore a new contract) if he signed his tender from NO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

When the Patriots are in "we need to score" mode, they have the RB on the field that can run and catch. I ******* live here and have to watch them play every week, this is how this specific team is built to function. As I stated earlier, we don't have a Tom Brady, so it's really not a one-to-one comparison to what we do here and what our team's limitations become with less versatility on the field.

 

But that's not the same thing. You're describing "we need to score" mode, not more "routine" mode. In the former, Vereen is not any more versatile than any other 3rd down back inserted when the whole world knows they're going to be overly pass-heavy (i.e. "we need to score" mode).

 

In that case, insert the back who is the superior receiver. No one's arguing with that. Use the right tool for the right job. In the case of Powell, it's doubly-good for must-pass time because he also is a solid pass protector.

 

That doesn't mean he should be the feature back. Because when NE was not in "we need to score" mode, Vereen was maybe lining up as a receiver - or off the field outright - in favor of Ridley or Blount (or even Gray) in the backfield.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not trying to fight with you. I just don't agree that our RB must be of a certain flavor (or more correctly, a more equal mixture of flavors). If you have someone really good at something, use him and don't let philosophy override the personnel you've got.

 

I don't care what happened with Ivory when he was with New Orleans. It's also possible that Payton doesn't know everything about RB management. Maybe he flat-out disliked Ivory personally. Reggie Bush was Shane Vereen when he was with New Orleans, barely taking 5 handoffs per game his last 2 years there. When he went to Miami and then his 1st year in Detroit, he was a productive feature back with triple the carries/game.

 

IMO you're reading way too much into Payton letting Ivory go. He had other players and Ivory was a free agent. We let Powell go for nothing. The thing is, without having to cough up draft pick compensation, no one but the Jets showed any serious interest. New Orleans got a decent mid-level pick on Ivory when they had a logjam at the position and when Ivory was just a tagged RFA anyway who didn't sign his tender until he was told he could get traded (and therefore a new contract) if he signed his tender from NO.

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I never actually said the RB had to be of a certain flavor. That is the dense argument being thrown at me by some people. I said I hope Powell can be more than just another 1-dimensional back. I don't know how else to explain this simple statement to people... I hope that instead of Powell being another 1-dimensional part of a committee, that he surprises us all and takes over the backfield because of his versatility. We've seen OC's build entire offenses around guys that aren't deemed "special" by anyone, until after we see how much they thrive in a specific offense, with a specific coach, that knows how to get the most out of them. 

 

Arian Foster went undrafted. People want to argue that Powell is a JAG. I see a guy that's pretty good at everything you want from a RB, and an OC that knows how to build around what players can do well. So, I'm hopeful that Powell proves to be an untapped weapon for us.... while I believe we've already gotten the gist of what the other guys do well. I never said the other guys suck. I'm just hopeful that the new circumstances elevate Powell into more than what many fangeniuses think they've got him pegged as.

 

 

 

hope·ful
ˈhōpfəl/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    feeling or inspiring optimism about a future event.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But that's not the same thing. You're describing "we need to score" mode, not more "routine" mode. In the former, Vereen is not any more versatile than any other 3rd down back inserted when the whole world knows they're going to be overly pass-heavy (i.e. "we need to score" mode).

 

In that case, insert the back who is the superior receiver. No one's arguing with that. Use the right tool for the right job. In the case of Powell, it's doubly-good for must-pass time because he also is a solid pass protector.

 

That doesn't mean he should be the feature back. Because when NE was not in "we need to score" mode, Vereen was maybe lining up as a receiver - or off the field outright - in favor of Ridley or Blount (or even Gray) in the backfield.

 

 

You're getting into semantics, this is sort of ridiculous.

 

The Patriots have 2 modes of offense.

 

1. We want to score all over your face

 

OR

 

2. We realize our defense can't stop you, no matter how much our offense scores, so we're going to pound the ball and sit on our lead to keep our defense off the field

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Jets landed Leonard Williams out of dumb luck in this draft. I love how you're leveraging that as some sort of deranged "I told you so". 

 

I'm not pissed off about Ivory. I don't recall being excited about CJ2K either, I thought that signing was meh. If you are going to be obsessed with me, then at least obsess accurately. 

 

My "I told you so" consists of not losing. 

 

And you are excited about "versatile backs". Why not CJ0K then? he had better overall production than Ivory. You probably had a hard on for him...n Im being very accurate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're getting into semantics, this is sort of ridiculous.

 

The Patriots have 2 modes of offense.

 

1. We want to score all over your face

 

OR

 

2. We realize our defense can't stop you, no matter how much our offense scores, so we're going to pound the ball and sit on our lead to keep our defense off the field

 

This has been beyond ridiculous for pages.  Now it is semantics?  You said that guys can't be "every down backs" because they are one dimensional.  Never mind that they already have been as close to every down backs as it gets here (Ivory), in New England (Ridley) and St Louis (Stacy).  You make two simple mistakes:  1.  You act like this is 1978 and teams need a "feature back."  That is antiquated thinking.  Score how you can and use what you have.  Mix and match.  It has been going on everywhere for years and is the whole purpose of the RBBC approach.  2.  You are talking about backs in NE and NO and those offenses are not what we can run here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My "I told you so" consists of not losing. 

 

And you are excited about "versatile backs". Why not CJ0K then? he had better overall production than Ivory. You probably had a hard on for him...n Im being very accurate.

 

I figured it was inevitable that you'd eventually start talking about my penis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

lol.

 

No, you moron. Pointing out what word I used in the beginning, before the dunce faction took off on their daily campaign, isn't semantics. It is just a reminder that reading comprehension goes a long way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This has been beyond ridiculous for pages.  Now it is semantics?  You said that guys can't be "every down backs" because they are one dimensional.  Never mind that they already have been as close to every down backs as it gets here (Ivory), in New England (Ridley) and St Louis (Stacy).  You make two simple mistakes:  1.  You act like this is 1978 and teams need a "feature back."  That is antiquated thinking.  Score how you can and use what you have.  Mix and match.  It has been going on everywhere for years and is the whole purpose of the RBBC approach.  2.  You are talking about backs in NE and NO and those offenses are not what we can run here.

 

I was addressing the semantics about when the Patriots go into scoring mode. Holy mackerel, you've shown a whole new depth of unintelligence in this thread.

 

As for the bold... do you even watch football brah? 

 

I never made the argument that we shouldn't use a RBBC. I didn't make any "mistakes". I said I hope Powell's versatility can make him more than just part of a committee. I never said you need an every down back, I never said Ivory sucks, I never said we shouldn't use the committee approach if it's what works best... all of that gibberish is the meaning you idiots applied to one very simple statement... I simply said I hope Powell can be more than what everyone thinks he is dude. 

 

Literally, every other thing you think  you are "right" about and I made the "mistake" of saying is a product of you projecting your inferior reasoning onto me.

 

I am in awe of how ******* dumb our fanbase can be. This team deserves to have a guy like Powell come from the back of the roster and turn into a beast for us. I'm well aware that it's wishful thinking, but that's what July is for you ******* dope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was addressing the semantics about when the Patriots go into scoring mode. Holy mackerel, you've shown a whole new depth of unintelligence in this thread.

 

As for the bold... do you even watch football brah? 

 

I never made the argument that we shouldn't use a RBBC. I didn't make any "mistakes". I said I hope Powell's versatility can make him more than just part of a committee. I never said you need an every down back, I never said Ivory sucks, I never said we shouldn't use the committee approach if it's what works best... all of that gibberish is the meaning you idiots applied to one very simple statement... I simply said I hope Powell can be more than what everyone thinks he is dude. 

 

Literally, every other thing you think  you are "right" about and I made the "mistake" of saying is a product of you projecting your inferior reasoning onto me.

 

I am in awe of how ******* dumb our fanbase can be. This team deserves to have a guy like Powell come from the back of the roster and turn into a beast for us. I'm well aware that it's wishful thinking, but that's what July is for you ******* dope.

 

Wow.  You called me stupid you must be right. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're leaving?  I knew there was a reason I was happy for the mafia forum even though I don't play.

 

How many times can I hammer you in the face in one thread? One day? I made my point, the rest was just pomp and circumstance... because I like you, like CTM likes calculators, and Crusher likes extra cheese on his cheese.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

You're entitled to your opinion. I never actually said the RB had to be of a certain flavor. That is the dense argument being thrown at me by some people. I said I hope Powell can be more than just another 1-dimensional back. I don't know how else to explain this simple statement to people... I hope that instead of Powell being another 1-dimensional part of a committee, that he surprises us all and takes over the backfield because of his versatility. We've seen OC's build entire offenses around guys that aren't deemed "special" by anyone, until after we see how much they thrive in a specific offense, with a specific coach, that knows how to get the most out of them. 

 

Arian Foster went undrafted. People want to argue that Powell is a JAG. I see a guy that's pretty good at everything you want from a RB, and an OC that knows how to build around what players can do well. So, I'm hopeful that Powell proves to be an untapped weapon for us.... while I believe we've already gotten the gist of what the other guys do well. I never said the other guys suck. I'm just hopeful that the new circumstances elevate Powell into more than what many fangeniuses think they've got him pegged as.

 

 

 

hope·ful
ˈhōpfəl/
adjective
 
  1. 1.
    feeling or inspiring optimism about a future event.

 

 

People don't feel Powell is or isn't something due to draft position.

 

Powell was at least drafted. Ivory was not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I figured it was inevitable that you'd eventually start talking about my penis.

 

Don't be a dick. 

 

Don't blame me that in some deranged effort to make an irrelevant point, you thought the best argument to make was about me getting boners for football players.

 

lol

 

At least one of us got this obvious joke post, even if the recipient didn't.

 

 

Watch.  Ape will now claim he saw exactly what j4jets was doing, but that his response to j4jets is way above our heads and stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watch.  Ape will now claim he saw exactly what j4jets was doing, but that his response to j4jets is way above our heads and stuff.

Even I got it, and I'm the guy who can't think.

 

I got my post in above yours because I didn't waste valuable time editing my post with fancy multi-quotes.

Point Sperm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watch.  Ape will now claim he saw exactly what j4jets was doing, but that his response to j4jets is way above our heads and stuff.

 

Not above your heads, dopey. Just playing along, like I've obviously been doing with Dom and Sperm. I'm capable of making my points, not giving a **** if anyone agrees, and still playing playing insult tag.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People don't feel Powell is or isn't something due to draft position.

 

Powell was at least drafted. Ivory was not.

 

I mention Foster being undrafted, purely to the point that a stud can come from out nowhere, including buried 3rd on the roster until a new coaching staff sees what the previous one did not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Powell is the only RB we have that I have hope for... the other 4 guys were given up on by Sean Payton, Bill Belicheat, and Jeff Fisher. 

 

 

Nothing like Revis. 

 

Ivory could barely get on the field. Revis is a stud.

 

Ivory got paid peanutes. Revis wasn't QB money.

 

Ivory got traded because the Saints moved on from him. Revis got traded because of money and egos.

 

 

True talent doesn't get buried 4th on the depth chart. He was traded because he is one dimensional.

Coaches will take less YPC if it means better pass pro and receding skills every day. Pierre Thinas isn't special, but capable of more, which is why he got on the field more.

Ivory is s one-dimensional beast. You are basically making my argument for me.

 

 

I mention Foster being undrafted, purely to the point that a stud can come from out nowhere, including buried 3rd on the roster until a new coaching staff sees what the previous one did not.

 

"I meant to do that"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're entitled to your opinion. I never actually said the RB had to be of a certain flavor. That is the dense argument being thrown at me by some people. I said I hope Powell can be more than just another 1-dimensional back. I don't know how else to explain this simple statement to people... I hope that instead of Powell being another 1-dimensional part of a committee, that he surprises us all and takes over the backfield because of his versatility. We've seen OC's build entire offenses around guys that aren't deemed "special" by anyone, until after we see how much they thrive in a specific offense, with a specific coach, that knows how to get the most out of them. 

 

Arian Foster went undrafted. People want to argue that Powell is a JAG. I see a guy that's pretty good at everything you want from a RB, and an OC that knows how to build around what players can do well. So, I'm hopeful that Powell proves to be an untapped weapon for us.... while I believe we've already gotten the gist of what the other guys do well. I never said the other guys suck. I'm just hopeful that the new circumstances elevate Powell into more than what many fangeniuses think they've got him pegged as.

  

hope·ful

ˈhōpfəl/

adjective

  • 1.

    feeling or inspiring optimism about a future event.

 

Powell is the only RB we have that I have hope for... the other 4 guys were given up on by Sean Payton, Bill Belicheat, and Jeff Fisher.

 

I like Ivory. Just don't have confidence in him becoming an every down back.

Silly me for reading it wrong that you want us to insert a do-all RB rather than use the strengths of each one we actually have.

 

"All those guys" couldn't have passed on Powell, if they didn't have him rostered. Dumb argument is dumb, and irrelevant to boot.

None of those guys showed any interest in Powell in free agency.

 

I want versatility for our passing game, in a passing league. I never said I don't want Ivory on the field. I acknowledged him as 1-dimensional. Bilal Powell is the only guy I have hope in (like I said) to give us versatility in the passing game. A back that can be on the field for any and every down. Doesn't mean I'm advocating against a committee, it means I'm  hopeful that when Powell gets on the field, defenses will still have to defend the run and pass, while when Ivory is on the field, the tape will eventually show they can over-commit a little to defending the run. I don't know how or why this is lost on you.

I don't agree Ivory is as 1-dimensional as you claim. He was used more in the passing game this year, and that's with CJ and Powell mostly sending him to the bench on obvious passing downs. Just because they're better receivers doesn't mean Ivory can't catch or be an effective receiver. He can be on the field for any/every down. But if you have a better back for a given task (like NE when they shift to must-score-now mode) then he's the one you use.

Recognizing strengths and weaknesses is part of coaching.

Powell was given the opportunity to be more of an every-down back, which would have relegated Ivory to just short-yardage duty. He was just okay. Decent receiver, very good pass protector, but really was just ok doing a RB's primary job (taking handoffs).

You can say ypc numbers don't matter, but when Ivory's are so far ahead of others AND he's the one getting so many short-yardage carries that naturally deflate ypc stats. Gaining 1 yard or less up the gut may be a success in converting the 1st down, but it looks like crap on the stat sheet. Powell doesn't have that handicap and his numbers are still just meh.

He's just not all that. I think he's a decent player, I'm happy to have him back, and do think he could carry the load in spots should injuries dictate this need. But that's it.

His versatility is fine when enough when we need to use him. Unlike your insinuation, it isn't necessarily an obvious running play when Ivory is in nor an obvious pass when Powell is in. So the big surprise to catch the defense off guard isn't much of a surprise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watch.  Ape will now claim he saw exactly what j4jets was doing, but that his response to j4jets is way above our heads and stuff.

Not above your heads, dopey. Just playing along, like I've obviously been doing with Dom and Sperm. I'm capable of making my points, not giving a **** if anyone agrees, and still playing playing insult tag.

Nostrajetsfan80damus

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mention Foster being undrafted, purely to the point that a stud can come from out nowhere, including buried 3rd on the roster until a new coaching staff sees what the previous one did not.

Apparently one can't come out of New Orleans, though.

Payton sure got the most out of Reggie Bush down there. Bush's career went way downhill after leaving. Oh wait, no it didn't.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Finally, at least some decent quality responses. That said, it's nice that you guys can chew holes in the 17 different ways I've tried to help you understand what hoping Powell can be more awesome than our other castoff players means. It was inevitable that I'd explain it until you got me to stretch the meaning out to the point of it losing meaning.

Still missing the point, but at least you have made some feel-good arguments to look back on over dinner tonight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

People don't feel Powell is or isn't something due to draft position.

 

Powell was at least drafted. Ivory was not.

 

powell & ivory can help us as long as we're able to give them some blocking..

 

 

 

:character0181:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...