Tinstar Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The Jets have what on paper might be considered either the best or one of the top 3 defensive lines in the NFL. It has proven to be difficult to run against, and has been a terror when rushing the passer. To compliment this impressive unit, the team has rebuilt in the last off season, it's entire secondary in an effort to give that front line the extra millisecond it needs to get to the QB.3 CBs were added who are either the top players at their positions, or have the reputation of being elite. A ball hawking free safety was added which would allow former 1st rounder Calvin Pryor to return to his natural SS position in an effort to further strengthen the secondary. That leaves the linebackers who presently represent the "weak Link". Comprised of a mixture of Inexperience youngsters and aging Experience Veterans, this unit is expected to bridge the gap between the staunch Defensive line and the revamped secondary. The youngsters bring with them speed while making mistakes due to their lack of experience. The Vets bring experience while making mistakes due to their lack of foot speed. The Youngsters Outside ; Lorenzo Mauldin Deon Barnes Julian Howsare The Vets Outside: Quintin Coples Calvin Pace Jason Babin The Youngsters inside; Taiwan Jones The Vets inside; David Harris Demario Davis Erin Henderson Joe Mays Since we're starting off fresh with everything new, I think it would be in the best interest of this miserable franchise to make their mistakes going 100 miles per, instead of the standard 15 miles per. Cut the slow old guys and play the kids. Taiwan Jones and Howsare both offer the ability to back up inside or outside . All both men have to do to improve their position on the team is excel on special teams and it should be impossible to cut them. What good is knowing where to be, if you can't get there fast enough to make a play ? PLAY THE KIDS COACH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJets Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 IK Enemkpali is the future Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Pass defense up the middle has and always will be a weakness with Harris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snell41 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 DL has been a terror rushing the passer!?! Really?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet9 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 DL has been a terror rushing the passer!?! Really?? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They were #6 in sacks (Only 8 from #1) but I have to agree with you. Jets pass rush stinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenseed4 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I believe the idea behind the big nickle is to keep the ILBs focused on run support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is a bit misguided to think Mauldin is fast because he is young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetsons Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Taiwan Jones' college video does ZERO for me... I Don't see the hype :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Actually, looking at it again, I think almost all of the "young" guys are slugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Not even sure what you're suggesting here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Lew Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 we need Demario to take the next step. Hes fast enough, hes got good instincts, and he seems like he fits the mold as a leader. If he can put it all together and our line/secondary play to their expected levels we will be really fun to watch on defense this year. Offense on the other hand...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRL Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Any speed issues at the LB position will be addressed by replacing them with safeties. That's what Bowles did at ARZ and what he'll do here. So players like Pryor, Allen, Miles and Jarrett will be on the field if the offense wants to spread us out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It is a bit misguided to think Mauldin is fast because he is young. It's also misguided to imply speed trumps knowing how to play the position, but why point this stuff out? It's far more entertaining to watch intellectual doodie get made in real time with these threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallinPB Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I think you're overthinking this. No way you sit our vets to start an unproven group of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You're right Integrity28, if you are totally out of position at that 2nd level no LB closing speed will be able to make up ground once a WR slant or bubble screen, TE short route, or RB checkdown is executed. That would continue to net 5-7 yards every time and constantly allow the chains to move no matter what the Dline or secondary does. No, either this team will have to mix and match the old/young LBs for some sort of balance or was previously stated by KRL that the safeties will be on the field in place of LBs most of the time other than primary run downs. Unless some the young LBs keep themselves in the right position, but that remains to be seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Actually, looking at it again, I think almost all of the "young" guys are slugs. I was about to say the same thing, they're all slugs. Demario is the only LB'er with any speed. And Ironically, Babin probably has the best speed of any of the OLB'ers...or at least the best first step. And they gave a ridiculous contract to the slowest LB'er of them all. So, I dont think they're concerned with speed at LB'er one bit. I think they're more concerned with being able to diagnosis the the play and be quick to the ball because of instincts rather than just flat out speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I was about to say the same thing, they're all slugs. Demario is the only LB'er with any speed. And Ironically, Babin probably has the best speed of any of the OLB'ers...or at least the best first step. And they gave a ridiculous contract to the slowest LB'er of them all. So, I dont think they're concerned with speed at LB'er one bit. I think they're more concerned with being able to diagnosis the the play and be quick to the ball because of instincts rather than just flat out speed. We'll see, but given how much Bowles plays nickel, LB will not be as important. I don't think you are going to see a ton of actual 3-4. Either more 3-3-5 or 4-2, or even 3-2-6 with multiple safties with Pryor in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 We'll see, but given how much Bowles plays nickel, LB will not be as important. This is what made the Harris extension so puzzling. I get it, he's a very good situational run stuffer. But at 31, him being handed $15M guaranteed? And making him the current 5th-highest paid Jet (by cap number)? And also making it impossible to cut him until 2017? Makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 We'll see, but given how much Bowles plays nickel, LB will not be as important. I don't think you are going to see a ton of actual 3-4. Either more 3-3-5 or 4-2, or even 3-2-6 with multiple safties with Pryor in the box. Which leads to my point, he wants LB'ers who can diagnosis a play and be in the right spot mostly for run support. I expect an extra safety or corner in coverage situations. Allen is really perfect for that tweener LB/S hybrid considered its what he played in college too. Jarrett too for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is what made the Harris extension so puzzling. I get it, he's a very good situational run stuffer. But at 31, him being handed $15M guaranteed? And making him the current 5th-highest paid Jet (by cap number)? And also making it impossible to cut him until 2017? Makes no sense. A situational run stuffer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 A situational run stuffer? What term would you use? He's basically useless in pass coverage. And as you noted, we won't be relying on LB's a lot. In 2nd & long situations, he comes off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 A situational run stuffer that plays over 99% of the snaps? I know everybody started thinking of Harris as a 2 down player, but he only missed about 6 snaps on D last year. He was top 50 in defensive snaps played in the NFL. They could reduce his role significantly and he'd still be on the field a ton. Oh and BTW, at the combine Harris 4.62, Taiwan Jones 4.95. That is not the way to get faster at the LB position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 A situational run stuffer that plays over 99% of the snaps? I know everybody started thinking of Harris as a 2 down player, but he only missed about 6 snaps on D last year. He was top 50 in defensive snaps played in the NFL. They could reduce his role significantly and he'd still be on the field a ton. And how effective was he on passing downs? How will Bowles use him? If he's used on 90+ % of snaps again it limits what we're trying to do, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 A situational run stuffer that plays over 99% of the snaps? I know everybody started thinking of Harris as a 2 down player, but he only missed about 6 snaps on D last year. He was top 50 in defensive snaps played in the NFL. They could reduce his role significantly and he'd still be on the field a ton. Only Jet fans turn sh*t players into martyers, like Simms, Ratliffe and Clowney, and then completely undervalue the good players we have like Harris. No player "makes" every single play. He's more better than worse for this team. He's not the problem area, but casual fans understand how to make "slow" an indictment that will stick, in spite of the fact that the guy generally makes the team better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 And how effective was he on passing downs? How will Bowles use him? If he's used on 90+ % of snaps again it limits what we're trying to do, no? Literally nobody here is going to know the answers to these questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What term would you use? He's basically useless in pass coverage. And as you noted, we won't be relying on LB's a lot. In 2nd & long situations, he comes off the field. That's not a term. It's never been used, ever. You just made it up. Never said that. I said they need LB'ers who diagnosis a play and use instincts to get to the ball (Harris). As opposed to speed demons who fly around the field covering sideline to sideline. An extra safety or corner doesnt mean that a Harris or Davis comes off the field, just that they have someone else who can cover in the game along side of them. A situational run stuffer that plays over 99% of the snaps? I know everybody started thinking of Harris as a 2 down player, but he only missed about 6 snaps on D last year. He was top 50 in defensive snaps played in the NFL. They could reduce his role significantly and he'd still be on the field a ton. This. They're not paying Harris to play on 1st down and then come off the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Literally nobody here is going to know the answers to these questions. But we can speculate. If Antonio Allen turns into that LB/S hybrid we want, I have to think that cuts into Harris' snaps. Someone has to have reduced snaps in order to make room for Harris in passing situations, if we choose to leave him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I like Harris. Just not for the kind of coin we're paying him on the wrong side of 30. If that ends up being Maccagnan's biggest mistake from this offseason, it means we likely have a really good GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 What term would you use? He's basically useless in pass coverage. And as you noted, we won't be relying on LB's a lot. In 2nd & long situations, he comes off the field. You realize that not every player on defense needs to go out in coverage on passing downs, right? He could stay on the field and scheme can dictate coverage, based on matchup. Its funny watching these arguments take place here, where both sides argue that the formula works one way, when the reality is that this is where coaches make their bones... game planning and scheming to take advantage of strengths, while hiding weaknesses. If we're matched up versus a team with a dog at TE, maybe we use Harris in coverage, to free up a more athletic safety for a different assignment. If we're facing a team with a H-back that Harris can't cover, he assign different coverage and use Harris elsewhere, or perhaps you do take him off the field. It's case-by-case, because it's football, and stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 But we can speculate. If Antonio Allen turns into that LB/S hybrid we want, I have to think that cuts into Harris' snaps. Someone has to have reduced snaps in order to make room for Harris in passing situations, if we choose to leave him in. If the only way Bowles knows how to scheme his defense is to either put a guy on the field, or take him off, then we're ****ed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 If we're matched up versus a team with a dog at TE, maybe we use Harris in coverage, to free up a more athletic safety for a different assignment. True. These are the TE's we face this year: Gary Barnidge/Rob Housler (CLE) Coby Fleener/Dwayne Allen Brent Celek/Zach Ertz Jordan Cameron Jordan Reed Gronk Mychal Rivera Julius Thomas Charles Clay Garrett Graham/CJ Fiedorowicz Jordan Cameron Larry Donnell Delanie Walker Witten Gronk Clay Several dogs on that list. Guess we'll just see. It's June, and I'm bored, so I thought it was worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Only Jet fans turn sh*t players into martyers, like Simms, Ratliffe and Clowney, and then completely undervalue the good players we have like Harris. No player "makes" every single play. He's more better than worse for this team. He's not the problem area, but casual fans understand how to make "slow" an indictment that will stick, in spite of the fact that the guy generally makes the team better. Totally agree about Harris! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 But we can speculate. If Antonio Allen turns into that LB/S hybrid we want, I have to think that cuts into Harris' snaps. Someone has to have reduced snaps in order to make room for Harris in passing situations, if we choose to leave him in. Why will it cut down on Harris' snaps? Maybe it will cut down on somebody else's snaps. One of the OLBs, Demario Davis, a lineman. Larry Foote played the second most snaps of anybody on the Cards defense last year. 94%. Larry ******* Foote. Harris can't fill that role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 True. These are the TE's we face this year: Gary Barnidge/Rob Housler (CLE) Coby Fleener/Dwayne Allen Brent Celek/Zach Ertz Jordan Cameron Jordan Reed Gronk Mychal Rivera Julius Thomas Charles Clay Garrett Graham/CJ Fiedorowicz Jordan Cameron Larry Donnell Delanie Walker Witten Gronk Clay Several dogs on that list. Guess we'll just see. It's June, and I'm bored, so I thought it was worth discussing. The other variable you have to consider is that if our DL can overpower the OL and force opposition to keep their TE in as an extra blocker, which is likely to happen given where our strengths are, then Harris in coverage becomes something you don't need to worry as much about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Why will it cut down on Harris' snaps? Maybe it will cut down on somebody else's snaps. One of the OLBs, Demario Davis, a lineman. Larry Foote played the second most snaps of anybody on the Cards defense last year. 94%. Larry ******* Foote. Harris can't fill that role? Sure he can. But Foote was signed to a cheap 1-year deal then retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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