Klecko73isGod Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Cute dog. Austrailian Sheppard? I disagree with this. If this was true, then Goodell would have handled it internally. He would have given a warning to the Patriots, like the memo he sent out for camera recordings, or call Bob up and let him know..."teams are whining about ball pressure". While Goodell did not have an axe to groind, some of the other ex-Jets employees in the NFL offices clearly did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Goodell has no credibility regardless of how he handles this. Reduce/overturn and he looks dumb for meting out punishment from a flawed report that cost 5 million. Stick with original, he looks dumb for continued standing behind a flawed report. How a smart man can make the wrong decision everytime is amazing. Goodell is not a smart man. What the **** has Roger Goodell ever done that gives you the impression that he is a smart man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 He would need the phone itself, intact, for a chance to recover anything useful at this point. You think he's dumb enough to not have "accidentally" dropped his phone into the toilet or a pool or into the ocean by now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Goodell has no credibility regardless of how he handles this. Reduce/overturn and he looks dumb for meting out punishment from a flawed report that cost 5 million. Stick with original, he looks dumb for continued standing behind a flawed report. How a smart man can make the wrong decision everytime is amazing. He came from the NY Jets. That should explain quite a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 He came from the NY Jets. That should explain quite a lot. Shut up. The adults are talking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Harper Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I would guess he'll knock a game off of the four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 You think he's dumb enough to not have "accidentally" dropped his phone into the toilet or a pool or into the ocean by now? The pretty ones are usually the dumbest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatriotReign37 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 If Goodell overturns Brady's suspension (which I am sure he will) Troy Vincent should quit his job very loudly and very angrily. Like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Goodell is not a smart man. What the **** has Roger Goodell ever done that gives you the impression that he is a smart man?From the part where he became a lawyer or the part where he turned that into the commissioner af the NFL making 44 mil a year? The game is more popular in more areas and makes more money than ever. We may b1tch, I doubt owners do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 The pretty ones are usually the dumbest True. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 He came from the NY Jets. That should explain quite a lot. Like how he covered up the evidence from Spygate by having it destroyed. Roger Goodell has been a shill for the Pats from day-1 but even he cannot control or contain the anger that the full 32 have for this corrupt franchise. When the Patriots cheat they are stealing from the other 31. They have never stopped cheating. You figure out the owner math here. Robert Kraft was given a very stern and very direct math lesson at the recent owners meeting. I would love Brady to file suit. That will make the cheating scum and their scummy fanbase even more popular than they currently are and we all get to watch a train wreck play out in slow motion. Pass the popcorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 From the part where he became a lawyer or the part where he turned that into the commissioner af the NFL making 44 mil a year? The game is more popular in more areas and makes more money than ever. We may b1tch, I doubt owners do He is not a lawyer. That's part of the problem. If he were a lawyer one would believe he would have handled disciplinary issues in a much better fashion than he has, Oh, and as far as giving Goodell credit for the growth of the game? Gimme a friggin' break. He took over as commissioner in 2006. The NFL was already far and away the most popular sport in America and was on a massive growth trajectory as fantasy football was already a huge deal. All he did was not completely **** things up. He is not, in any measurable way, responsible for any growth in the value of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 He is not a lawyer. That's part of the problem. If he were a lawyer one would believe he would have handled disciplinary issues in a much better fashion than he has, Oh, and as far as giving Goodell credit for the growth of the game? Gimme a friggin' break. He took over as commissioner in 2006. The NFL was already far and away the most popular sport in America and was on a massive growth trajectory as fantasy football was already a huge deal. All he did was not completely **** things up. He is not, in any measurable way, responsible for any growth in the value of the NFL. Better yet from an economics degree to a 44 mil job. Either way, makes him smart, real smart. Of course football was popular before. He didn't completely **** things up. No when the game keeps growing, keeps getting more and more popular. I hate his stupid decisions but the game is in better shape than the day he took over. Any way you try and rank its popularity. Hard to argue that he ****s it up any way than we hate him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Better yet from an economics degree to a 44 mil job. Either way, makes him smart, real smart. Of course football was popular before. He didn't completely **** things up. No when the game keeps growing, keeps getting more and more popular. I hate his stupid decisions but the game is in better shape than the day he took over. Any way you try and rank its popularity. Hard to argue that he ****s it up any way than we hate him No... it makes him a guy whose Senator father got him a job with the NFL..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 No... it makes him a guy whose Senator father got him a job with the NFL..... Having a senator for a father doesn't get you a $44 mil job. If he had that kind of pull his first job isn't an internship after writing letter to every team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdxgreen Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Brady will probably get off scott free. A cottage industry of revisionists, apologists and deluded fans have hitched their voice to the idea of Brady as a hero. If he does get off, it will be interesting to see how this effects the future of the league. My guess is that people will see the NFL as tainted and crooked. All hail the soccer generation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klecko73isGod Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Having a senator for a father doesn't get you a $44 mil job. If he had that kind of pull his first job isn't an internship after writing letter to every team. No kissing major ass once you get your foot in the door does. Goodell made it to commissioner because he is someone the owners felt they could easily control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 No kissing major ass once you get your foot in the door does. Goodell made it to commissioner because he is someone the owners felt they could easily control. Every commissioner has to. They're hired and paid by the owners to do what the owners want. Not a new concept. When Goodell wants helmet to helmet hits reduced its because the owners don't want to pay vegged out players millions to recover from injuries. Commissioner makes money, expands the game, keeps the union happy with the CBA and sells the he game. His most important job is TV contract, which now has expanded to cable, NFLN, Internet and Sunday Ticket. Half a he sh*t we blame him for is the owners bidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurnleyJet Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 If he gets off Scott free, then what message does this send out to the players, teams, and NFL fans. It's ok to cheat if your a Big enough Star - Actually the only thing I really want is a level playing field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 No kissing major ass once you get your foot in the door does. Goodell made it to commissioner because he is someone the owners felt they could easily control. I would kiss every ass from here to Miami for $44 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm afraid this issue has no air left in it. Brady will get a slap on the wrist and have to go bed without his porridge. Time to move on. Let's deal with him on the field when he's trying to throw that pumpkin with two hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 See my response below. I'm not saying it's a good argument, but sometimes as a lawyer you have to do the best you can. That's how I'd play this. Yup, that's a major problem for him. I still predict he walked in with carefully pre-selected texts by his lawyers that (obviously) help him saying "here is what we have," knowing that Goodell has no way to get the full data. Egad. If they did that, we would have to count on Goodell's ability not to let himself be bamboozled. I don;t have a lot of confidence in that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 There should be no discretion in player penalties under the CBA. Drunk Driving: 2 games Domestic violence: 8 games Domestic violence against children or with significant injury: Year Failure to cooperate with investigation: 4 games Something like that. Then we can keep all the lawyers out of it. What amazes me most by the Pats fans defending it, is that they think the NFL wanted Wells to find fault and that could not be farther from the truth. More likely is that the report is whitewashed to make the behavior look isolated which of course it is not. All I really care about is that they do something to make sure it does not ever happen again. Everyone other than Pats fans know they cheated and will continue to find ways to cheat. The length of the suspension is sort of irrelevant. 10+ hours suggests negotiation and compromise. Maybe they just put Brady on double secret probation. I wouldn't count on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 He would need the phone itself, intact, for a chance to recover anything useful at this point. I was wondering about that. But if he deletes a few texts, does the phone retain any evidence of that tampering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 I'm afraid this issue has no air left in it. Brady will get a slap on the wrist and have to go bed without his porridge. Time to move on. Let's deal with him on the field when he's trying to throw that pumpkin with two hands. I see what you did there, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Egad. If they did that, we would have to count on Goodell's ability not to let himself be bamboozled. I don;t have a lot of confidence in that. It is about burden and whether that burden is carried. Brady does not have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is "innocent." Rather, it is the NFL's burden to prove allegations by a preponderance of the evidence. All Brady's lawyers have to do is tip the scale to slightly below 50% probability that Brady was "as guilty" as in the Wells report to get the suspension reduced. Similar to a criminal trial where sometimes the accused mounts no defense whatsoever, and relies on his belief/hope that the State has failed to carry its burden. People who are accused don't have to prove a thing. But I'm not familiar enough with the NFL's internal appeals process, maybe in an appeal you do have a burden to show that there was some error made in the original finding. I don't know. Regardless, Brady isn't paying his lawyers $1,000/hour (or more) to just shrug their shoulders and say "you're screwed." The strategy I raised above is one Brady's lawyers can and probably will take (raise new evidence). They will also argue the punishment was excessive by raising other situations and drawing similarities/disparities between those and Brady's current situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 It is about burden and whether that burden is carried. Brady does not have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he is "innocent." Rather, it is the NFL's burden to prove allegations by a preponderance of the evidence. All Brady's lawyers have to do is tip the scale to slightly below 50% probability that Brady was "as guilty" as in the Wells report to get the suspension reduced. Similar to a criminal trial where sometimes the accused mounts no defense whatsoever, and relies on his belief/hope that the State has failed to carry its burden. People who are accused don't have to prove a thing. But I'm not familiar enough with the NFL's internal appeals process, maybe in an appeal you do have a burden to show that there was some error made in the original finding. I don't know. Regardless, Brady isn't paying his lawyers $1,000/hour (or more) to just shrug their shoulders and say "you're screwed." The strategy I raised above is one Brady's lawyers can and probably will take (raise new evidence). They will also argue the punishment was excessive by raising other situations and drawing similarities/disparities between those and Brady's current situation. There is speculation that the Brady defense team's presentation was strongly focused on the science in the Wells report, claiming it was flawed. The only evidence that the science was flawed that I have seen is the American Enterprise Institute's report. The AEI report was a shoddy piece of work that did not correctly take into account the scientific work that was described in the appendix to the Wells report. There was nothing raised in the AEI report that held any water, and thus nothing in there ought to tip the scales below 50% for Brady. If that is what Goodell is considering as a possible basis for reducing the suspension, I certainly hope he gives the Wells team an opportunity to refute the contents of the defense team's presentation. It is also my personal opinion that the majority of the suspension was based on Brady's failure to cooperate with the investigation. So even if Goodell lets himself be bamboozeled by the "science" in the tech report underlying the AEI report, the suspension may still not be reduced at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I was wondering about that. But if he deletes a few texts, does the phone retain any evidence of that tampering? It's like when you delete a computer file, it can still be recovered in many cases. I'm not an IT guy so I don't know the specifics. There is speculation that the Brady defense team's presentation was strongly focused on the science in the Wells report, claiming it was flawed. The only evidence that the science was flawed that I have seen is the American Enterprise Institute's report. The AEI report was a shoddy piece of work that did not correctly take into account the scientific work that was described in the appendix to the Wells report. There was nothing raised in the AEI report that held any water, and thus nothing in there ought to tip the scales below 50% for Brady. If that is what Goodell is considering as a possible basis for reducing the suspension, I certainly hope he gives the Wells team an opportunity to refute the contents of the defense team's presentation. It is also my personal opinion that the majority of the suspension was based on Brady's failure to cooperate with the investigation. So even if Goodell lets himself be bamboozeled by the "science" in the tech report underlying the AEI report, the suspension may still not be reduced at all. I agree with you that this seems like a "the coverup is worse than the crime" type of punishment from Goodell. Brady's best bet probably was not to attack the science but to get affidavits/statements from a ton of former NFL QBs saying this was common. Then demonstrate the league itself was generally aware this was going on for years, and make the case he is being singled out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I was wondering about that. But if he deletes a few texts, does the phone retain any evidence of that tampering? If he does it then yes it's actually still on the phone ready for extraction like the other phones. If he had an expert go through and delete any incriminating evidence then he'll look to the world like he's fully cooperated. Now they'll know better in future cheating how to keep from getting caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 It's like when you delete a computer file, it can still be recovered in many cases. I'm not an IT guy so I don't know the specifics. I agree with you that this seems like a "the coverup is worse than the crime" type of punishment from Goodell. Brady's best bet probably was not to attack the science but to get affidavits/statements from a ton of former NFL QBs saying this was common. Then demonstrate the league itself was generally aware this was going on for years, and make the case he is being singled out. Sounds like Brady didn't have the right lawyer. Of course, if he had a Jet fan for a lawyer, I'm not sure that would have been the best idea either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYs Stepchild Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 There is speculation that the Brady defense team's presentation was strongly focused on the science in the Wells report, claiming it was flawed. The only evidence that the science was flawed that I have seen is the American Enterprise Institute's report. The AEI report was a shoddy piece of work that did not correctly take into account the scientific work that was described in the appendix to the Wells report. There was nothing raised in the AEI report that held any water, and thus nothing in there ought to tip the scales below 50% for Brady. If that is what Goodell is considering as a possible basis for reducing the suspension, I certainly hope he gives the Wells team an opportunity to refute the contents of the defense team's presentation. It is also my personal opinion that the majority of the suspension was based on Brady's failure to cooperate with the investigation. So even if Goodell lets himself be bamboozeled by the "science" in the tech report underlying the AEI report, the suspension may still not be reduced at all. They have video evidence of them taking the balls into the bathroom. Does it really matter what they were doing to them in there? Texts about getting kicks from Brady for the Deflator. They have Brady saying he didn't know the man, and refusing to turn over his phone. Do they really need scientific proof? Still if Brady turns over his professionally cleaned phone I'm sure Goodall will welcome the opportunity to exonerate him. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the deal he made with Kraft not to fight for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Sounds like Brady didn't have the right lawyer. Of course, if he had a Jet fan for a lawyer, I'm not sure that would have been the best idea either. Im a bigger fan of money than the Jets, comes with the profession Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 If he does it then yes it's actually still on the phone ready for extraction like the other phones. If he had an expert go through and delete any incriminating evidence then he'll look to the world like he's fully cooperated. Now they'll know better in future cheating how to keep from getting caught. But if he deleted the incriminating texts in, say, January, won't the old texts have been overwritten by now? And if an expert did the deletions recently, would evidence of that remain on the phone at least for a while? That is, evidence of tampering that another expert could find? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 They have video evidence of them taking the balls into the bathroom. Does it really matter what they were doing to them in there? Texts about getting kicks from Brady for the Deflator. They have Brady saying he didn't know the man, and refusing to turn over his phone. Do they really need scientific proof? Still if Brady turns over his professionally cleaned phone I'm sure Goodall will welcome the opportunity to exonerate him. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the deal he made with Kraft not to fight for the team. Could be. In 99 percent of settlements, justice or the truth are not important... Expediancy and cost are, the latter not being so important here. If Goodell and Bradys lawyers agree that Brady will not challenge a two game suspension any further, they make the deal and move on, with Goodell making up whatever retroactive reason he wants to justify the reduction. Maybe this is the rare case where something else is more important and Brady is willing to go all the way to protect his "legacy" or whatever, in which case we will all be entertained by this for several more months, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Fan RI Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 They have video evidence of them taking the balls into the bathroom. Does it really matter what they were doing to them in there? Texts about getting kicks from Brady for the Deflator. They have Brady saying he didn't know the man, and refusing to turn over his phone. Do they really need scientific proof? Still if Brady turns over his professionally cleaned phone I'm sure Goodall will welcome the opportunity to exonerate him. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the deal he made with Kraft not to fight for the team. I agree with the strength of the case based on the other evidence. My only point was that, if the thrust of the defense was to attack the science in the Wells report, there is zero reason to reduce the suspension based on those grounds. As for the final point, we can only hope Goodell isn't simply looking for a reason to reduce the suspension, and would make an argument that it was the original failure to turn over the phone that is worthy of punishment, especially since the phone may have been tampered with in the interim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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