Jump to content

Brady's case...how long would the injuction take?


AFJF

Recommended Posts

What if Goodell decides to rule on the appeal on October 1st?

 

Good question.  Not sure if a court would view dispute as ripe to hear an injunction before final ruling.  My guess is you could get it heard if harm (missing games) was imminent.  No opinion on odds of success.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 128
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Why?

 

Mike Reiss made the argument that the suspension should be tabled until the science behind it can be confirmed.   And if you think the science is sound, would you place your life on it?  There is not a born and bred Jet fan that would.

 

Keeping it at 4 is the worst possible solution for Goodell.  He would essentially be giving all female fans a big middle finger.  Reduce Greg Hardy's suspension from 10 to 4 and keep Brady's at 4?  So beating a woman is the same as not being able to conclusively say Brady did it. You know what a sh*t storm that would cause.

 

Tabling for further investigation it would be his best move.  Hire some real scientist, not a firm like Exponent that is in trouble in Illinois for not disclosing documents behind their science, to do a real investigation.  If it came back conclusive the Patriots, what a minute he exonerated them, that Brady was guilty you can reinstate the penalty.

 

That is his best decision.  I would say a majority of the public would be surprised Goodell made a rational decision.

 

Now, Goodell has rarely shown rational thought so that is unlikely to happen.

 

He was suspended primarily for refusing to cooperate fully with a league investigation. What science would exonerate him from that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What they have to lose is an expensive and embarrassing legal battle, and if they win they get... the same thing they already ruled anyhow.  If Brady loses he is no worse off.  All upside for Brady.  That means Brady has leverage in that lawsuit avoidance is much more important to NFL than to Brady, since only one can improve their position through such a maneuver.  If Goodell is smart (which he is) he will offer a compromise (say 2 games) so then Brady has something to lose.  Then the leverage is shifted back in some degree to the league.

 

Isn't there the discovery process where Brady's cell phone records could be subpoenaed?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wow.  So Greg Hardy throwing his GF onto the floor, into a bathtub, onto a futon, strangling and threatening to kill her is worse? 

 

You are a real humanitarian.

 

Obviously in real life terms what Greg Hardy did was worse. We have a court system in this country that is supposed to deal with that. 

 

From a league perspective, what Brady did was worse. He compromised the integrity of the game, lied about it, tried to cover it up and then refused to fully cooperate with a league investigation. 

 

It would set a horrible precedent for Goodell to set aside his suspension. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Isn't there the discovery process where Brady's cell phone records could be subpoenaed?

 

Not for an injunction hearing, no.  That's a file on Monday hope to be in front of a judge on Wednesday kind of deal.  An injunction would seek to allow Brady to play while the case was pending.  Basically suspend punishment until it's resolved.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why?

 

Mike Reiss made the argument that the suspension should be tabled until the science behind it can be confirmed.   And if you think the science is sound, would you place your life on it?  There is not a born and bred Jet fan that would.

 

Keeping it at 4 is the worst possible solution for Goodell.  He would essentially be giving all female fans a big middle finger.  Reduce Greg Hardy's suspension from 10 to 4 and keep Brady's at 4?  So beating a woman is the same as not being able to conclusively say Brady did it. You know what a sh*t storm that would cause.

 

Tabling for further investigation it would be his best move.  Hire some real scientist, not a firm like Exponent that is in trouble in Illinois for not disclosing documents behind their science, to do a real investigation.  If it came back conclusive the Patriots, what a minute he exonerated them, that Brady was guilty you can reinstate the penalty.

 

That is his best decision.  I would say a majority of the public would be surprised Goodell made a rational decision.

 

Now, Goodell has rarely shown rational thought so that is unlikely to happen.

 

Pretty ridiculous question. As a physicist, I believe the science is sound. But of course I would not place my life on it. Anyone can overlook some small detail that might invalidate the conclusions, and dying for that oversight is a bit much to risk. I will go so far as to state I find the science in the Wells report rather compelling.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not for an injunction hearing, no.  That's a file on Monday hope to be in front of a judge on Wednesday kind of deal.  An injunction would seek to allow Brady to play while the case was pending.  Basically suspend punishment until it's resolved.

 

Well, I am thinking in terms of the long term. So yes, the injunction could happen. But you said it's all upside for Brady. Even if the cell phone subpoena does not happen until later on, if the records contain something incriminating (and after all, it's hard to see why Brady would not have cooperated with the investigation if they didn't), I would say there is most certainly a downside for Brady.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, I am thinking in terms of the long term. So yes, the injunction could happen. But you said it's all upside for Brady. Even if the cell phone subpoena does not happen until later on, if the records contain something incriminating (and after all, it's hard to see why Brady would not have cooperated with the investigation if they didn't), I would say there is most certainly a downside for Brady.

 

The substance of the cell phone texts are long gone.  We had a discussion about this a couple months back.  Carriers keep records of who texted who for quite some time, but the actual texts themselves are deleted from the servers pretty quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The substance of the cell phone texts are long gone.  We had a discussion about this a couple months back.  Carriers keep records of who texted who for quite some time, but the actual texts themselves are deleted from the servers pretty quickly.

 

I recall our conversation. But the real question is whether anything of substance has survived in the records that still exist...And more important, even if nothing does,is Brady willing to take the risk that someone might not dig something up in the subpoenaed records.

 

I think a case can still be made there is a downside here for Brady seeking an injunction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I recall our conversation. But the real question is whether anything of substance has survived in the records that still exist...And more important, even if nothing does,is Brady willing to take the risk that someone might not dig something up in the subpoenaed records.

 

I think a case can still be made there is a downside here for Brady seeking an injunction.

 

Don't think so.  Even if he loses in court he still gets 4 games.  I predict deal for 2 games and Brady is allowed to continue to assert his innocence publicly. Pats will still win AFCE.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think so.  Even if he loses in court he still gets 4 games.  I predict 2 games and Brady is allowed to continue to assert his innocence publicly.

 

Well, 4 games plus the risk something worse will be found in the records. But I realize you don't find that a realistic possibility.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't think so.  Even if he loses in court he still gets 4 games.  I predict deal for 2 games and Brady is allowed to continue to assert his innocence publicly. Pats will still win AFCE.

Eh?  There is a huge downside if it goes to court.  Once it is in the courts it opens up all sorts of things whether it be reinterviews, affidavits, actual testimony under oath.  If the NFL handed him down another two games for a total of 6 he still would not want to take it into the courts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pretty ridiculous question. As a physicist, I believe the science is sound. But of course I would not place my life on it. Anyone can overlook some small detail that might invalidate the conclusions, and dying for that oversight is a bit much to risk. I will go so far as to state I find the science in the Wells report rather compelling.

 

Rumor has it at the initial hearing (the one that didn't go over so well), he tried to invoke Brady's right hand rule, which goes something like this: "Magnetism shmagnetism. I do what I want to a football. GFY."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rumor has it at the initial hearing (the one that didn't go over so well), he tried to invoke Brady's right hand rule, which goes something like this: "Magnetism shmagnetism. I do what I want to a football. GFY."

 

The thing that mystifies me is the widespread belief in the sports media that the science in the Wells report is unsound. Why, because the unsound criticisms presented by Brady's legal team claimed that it is flawed? I have seen nothing even close to convincing that calls that work into question. If there is something other than the work that was described in the ludicrous AEI report, I haven't seen it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, 4 games plus the risk something worse will be found in the records. But I realize you don't find that a realistic possibility.

 

Not sure it matters. He's already presumed guilty by the whole world. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Eh?  There is a huge downside if it goes to court.  Once it is in the courts it opens up all sorts of things whether it be reinterviews, affidavits, actual testimony under oath.  If the NFL handed him down another two games for a total of 6 he still would not want to take it into the courts.

 

Well, we're just going to have to disagree entirely.  And that's fine.  Probably academic anyway as I think a deal for 2 games with right to assert his innocence publicly is the likely resolution here.  Let's put it this way: if they don't reach a deal, it's because Brady believes he will preserve his legacy through a court battle.  Which means he won't fear any of the things you mention.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, we're just going to have to disagree entirely.  And that's fine.  Probably academic anyway as I think a deal for 2 games with right to assert his innocence publicly is the likely resolution here.  Let's put it this way: if they don't reach a deal, it's because Brady believes he will preserve his legacy through a court battle.  Which means he won't fear any of the things you mention.

I don't see how the court decides if he was guilty or not. Thought they would just get to decide if the process was right and the punishment was justified.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see how the court decides if he was guilty or not. Thought they would just get to decide if the process was right and the punishment was justified.

 

You're right.  But to determine the appropriateness of the punishment, they will by definition have to judge the evidence to see if it reasonably justified the punishment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Obviously in real life terms what Greg Hardy did was worse. We have a court system in this country that is supposed to deal with that.

From a league perspective, what Brady did was worse. He compromised the integrity of the game, lied about it, tried to cover it up and then refused to fully cooperate with a league investigation.

It would set a horrible precedent for Goodell to set aside his suspension.

Hardy is bad..he represents the shield as well. On n off the field and his behavior also affects the integrity of the game, cause the nfl is employing questionable players to get on the field to further their game.

Only on a jet board you would get this whole thing taken out of perceptive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You're right. But to determine the appropriateness of the punishment, they will by definition have to judge the evidence to see if it reasonably justified the punishment.

I could be very wrong but I was under the impression they just rule on the process being handled correctly and that given he was found guilty is the punishment follow the guidelines of the CBA.

If that's the case I don't see how a court could ever rule against the league. It's not like with Hardy where he was cleared of any wrongdoing by the court and still suspended. And suspended under new Guidelines not under those in place at the time of his original date.

Unless Of course Brady sits in front of a crooked Boston/NE court and a Pats fan judge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I could be very wrong but I was under the impression they just rule on the process being handled correctly and that given he was found guilty is the punishment follow the guidelines of the CBA.

 

The substance of the transgression weighs heavily in such proceedings.  One of the major arguments advanced in these cases is that the punishment was unprecedented or overly harsh compared to similar transgressions by others, which is disallowed under collective bargaining agreements.  A disproportionate punishment kind of deal.

 

Could Brady only claim he was denied due process, and make no claims as to his own innocence?  It's a good question for a labor lawyer but that would dramatically reduce Brady's chance of success and, even if found that due process was violated, it would be kicked back for reajudication by the league.  It would also have have no value in "clearing his name/legacy" which is probably the only reason he would go to court in the first place imho.

 

That being said I'm not an expert on labor law, maybe someone else here is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The substance of the transgression weighs heavily in such proceedings.  One of the major arguments advanced in these cases is that the punishment was unprecedented or overly harsh compared to similar transgressions by others.  A disproportionate punishment kind of deal.

Sorry, was adding to my post while you responded.

I agree, just don't see how 4 game suspension is overly harsh given how often and easily their tossed out. Especially given its the first time for this kind of charge to a player. Add in a he team has been guilty once before of cheating.

Even if a judge somehow thought 4 games were excessive he can't possibly wipe out all 4 games. That would be rediculously over the top. To me any suspension is fine. Doesn't change his legacy. Any suspension says he's a cheater.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry, was adding to my post while you responded.

I agree, just don't see how 4 game suspension is overly harsh given how often and easily their tossed out. Especially given its the first time for this kind of charge to a player. Add in a he team has been guilty once before of cheating.

Even if a judge somehow thought 4 games were excessive he can't possibly wipe out all 4 games. That would be rediculously over the top. To me any suspension is fine. Doesn't change his legacy. Any suspension says he's a cheater.

 

Yeah, really doubt it gets that far.  It's max 4 games.  I can't think of a time a player has sued over a lousy 4 games, especially when it can probably be negotiated down to 2.  Better to just take your medicine and get on with it. We can only hope Brady sues, delays the punishment and loses the case in late December :cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hardy is bad..he represents the shield as well. On n off the field and his behavior also affects the integrity of the game, cause the nfl is employing questionable players to get on the field to further their game.

Only on a jet board you would get this whole thing taken out of perceptive.

 

How does what Greg Hardy did impact the integrity of the actual game of football?

 

It doesn't. 

 

It has no bearing on whether or not the game is being played on a level playing field. 

 

Now STFU. Adults are talking. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The thing that mystifies me is the widespread belief in the sports media that the science in the Wells report is unsound. Why, because the unsound criticisms presented by Brady's legal team claimed that it is flawed? I have seen nothing even close to convincing that calls that work into question. If there is something other than the work that was described in the ludicrous AEI report, I haven't seen it.

 

I was only trying to make a physics joke. Guess it fell under the So funny I forgot to laugh category. :bag:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, really doubt it gets that far. It's max 4 games. I can't think of a time a player has sued over a lousy 4 games, especially when it can probably be negotiated down to 2. Better to just take your medicine and get on with it. We can only hope Brady sues, delays the punishment and loses the case in late December :cheers:

Exactly my thought on this. He could screw the Pats big time. It's a lot easier to recover from a slow start without Brady than to live with a bad string of games at the end of the season during the playoff push. I would bet the house that Bellichick would rather go into the season knowing exactly which games Brady will miss as opposed to playing a guessing game.

And he would those games come early. Would even think he may tell Brady to take the games not worth risking the season.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does what Greg Hardy did impact the integrity of the actual game of football?

It doesn't.

It has no bearing on whether or not the game is being played on a level playing field.

Now STFU. Adults are talking.

I just stated..cause the nfl is employing players with questionable behavior. Integrity is not soley on wins n loses.

Colts arent complaining neither are the ravens..

And you barely move me w that "stfu" cause i swear you were in front of me i'd make u swallow the hell out of your tongue. Just post. Computer keys dont hit back.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does what Greg Hardy did impact the integrity of the actual game of football?

 

It doesn't. 

 

It has no bearing on whether or not the game is being played on a level playing field. 

 

Now STFU. Adults are talking.

If anything it hurts the integrity of the legal system which let him off. The NFL attempted to punish Hardy for a crime he was cleared of. And if not bad enough he was suspended under new guidelines not under the ones set at the time of his arrest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just stated..cause the nfl is employing players with questionable behavior. Integrity is not soley on wins n loses.

Colts arent complaining neither are the ravens..

And you barely move me w that "stfu" cause i swear you were in front of me i'd make u swallow the hell out of your tongue. Just post. Computer keys dont hit back.

 

Is this English?

 

What the **** are you talking about?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I heard this morning on Mike and Mike - ESPN shills...

 

They think the compromise could ultimately be a 1 game suspension - BUT and this is the big BUT....the penalty will be for obstruction - and NOT for cheating.  Say the proof simply wasn't there...

 

Which, of course, would be ridiculous - nothing changed from that original report...It's clear he cheated and backing off that would be awful.

 

I can live with 1 game - as long as it's still for cheating.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just stated..cause the nfl is employing players with questionable behavior. Integrity is not soley on wins n loses.

Colts arent complaining neither are the ravens..

And you barely move me w that "stfu" cause i swear you were in front of me i'd make u swallow the hell out of your tongue. Just post. Computer keys dont hit back.

 

love message board physical threats :character43:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...