Brady's case...how long would the injuction take?

[Klecko73isGod]

If he's guilty of obstructing and/or failing to cooperate with the investigation, do they really need any other evidence?

 

Goodell can just say purposely being uncooperative with such a serious investigation - particularly leading up to the superbowl with the whole world watching - did or could have done irreparable harm to the integrity of the league, and 4 games is a slap on the wrist for such an infraction.

 

Bingo. 

 

I don't see a way Brady and the union could possibly hope to win a lawsuit. It was even stated in Troy Vincent's statement that the primary reason for the punishment was the failure to cooperate with the investigation. 

 

Brady and his dipsh*t agent can yell all they want about Wells and the science. All of that is an attempt to distract from the real issue at hand - on Robert Kraft, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's watch, the Patriots have conducted themselves as though league rules do not apply to them.

[jgb]

If he's guilty of obstructing and/or failing to cooperate with the investigation, do they really need any other evidence?

 

Goodell can just say purposely being uncooperative with such a serious investigation - particularly leading up to the superbowl with the whole world watching - did or could have done irreparable harm to the integrity of the league, and 4 games is a slap on the wrist for such an infraction.

 

Private arbitration is given a lot of weight by a court.  No one is saying it will be easy for Brady to win.  I believe they are trying to use threat of lawsuit to gain leverage over NFL.  That's all I'm saying.

[jgb]

Bingo. 

 

I don't see a way Brady and the union could possibly hope to win a lawsuit. It was even stated in Troy Vincent's statement that the primary reason for the punishment was the failure to cooperate with the investigation. 

 

Brady and his dipsh*t agent can yell all they want about Wells and the science. All of that is an attempt to distract from the real issue at hand - on Robert Kraft, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's watch, the Patriots have conducted themselves as though league rules do not apply to them.

 

In these matters you can't always think of win/lose as a binary thing.  In any negotiation--settlement or otherwise--you have to consider how certain threats/scenarios create leverage and for whom. 

[Klecko73isGod]

In these matters you can't always think of win/lose as a binary thing.  In any negotiation--settlement or otherwise--you have to consider how certain threats/scenarios create leverage and for whom. 

 

I understand why Brady is doing what he is doing. I think the NFL should call him on his bluff. 

[jgb]

I understand why Brady is doing what he is doing. I think the NFL should call him on his bluff. 

 

We agree there. I'd love the circus theater of Tom Brady suing the NFL.

[Beerfish]

Well, we're just going to have to disagree entirely.  And that's fine.  Probably academic anyway as I think a deal for 2 games with right to assert his innocence publicly is the likely resolution here.  Let's put it this way: if they don't reach a deal, it's because Brady believes he will preserve his legacy through a court battle.  Which means he won't fear any of the things you mention.

No chance they will go the court route.  Every fan of every single team in the l;league should be praying for this.  Let the total truth come out I'd say there is about a 99% chance Brady looks FAR worse than he does right now.

 

The second issue is why in the hole wide world he is even being allowed to make a deal, who gets to make deals after being suspend for any reason?  No one, well except for Brady it seems.  Why this whole 'deal' bit is coming up is beyond me.

 

You make you appeal and the commish says suspension up held or reduced, no 'deal'

[Beerfish]

Private arbitration is given a lot of weight by a court.  No one is saying it will be easy for Brady to win.  I believe they are trying to use threat of lawsuit to gain leverage over NFL.  That's all I'm saying.

lol  It should be the EXACT opposite.  The NFL should be using the threat of litigation to gain leverage.  The moment it goes to court they can force the ball guys to testify under oath, interview them as often as needed or at least the very least get an affidavit.  Force Brady to hand over his phone records, etc etc.  All that is smoke would become clear.  I can't under stand your stance on this at all.

[Ex-Rex]

They are probably looking to do a compromise is my guess. No legal action with a reduced sentence- say 2 games

Brady has steadfastly refused to accept a "suspension". What gets me is this guy defends himself with statements like, "I don't believe I cheated" or "I don't feel that I have done anything wrong" which is weak. If someone accuses me of something I didn't do, I say "Hell no, I didn't do it." But Brady was raised in the Patriots system which optimzes ways of 'getting an edge' and denial of wrongdoing is standard in that package. If he really had NOTHING to do with deflating or ordering footballs deflated then he would shout it from the rooftops. He wants to take it to court because he will have the right to not take the stand in his own defense and the NFL cannot conclusively PROVE he ordered or even knew about what he is accused of. I only hope the court orders him to turn over his cell phone records or have the case kicked back to the NFL. If he puts Goodell through that you can bet it will be a four gamer for sure.

[Ex-Rex]

Brady and his dipsh*t agent can yell all they want about Wells and the science. All of that is an attempt to distract from the real issue at hand - on Robert Kraft, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick's watch, the Patriots have conducted themselves as though league rules do not apply to them.

 

That is the Patriots Way, which Brady is deeply rooted in. This is a team that has taken the Raiders unofficial motto of "If you ain't cheating you ain't trying" to another level. I'll bet one of the practice sessions at One Patriot Way is in convincing denial of wrongdoing. I can hear Belichick , "I can't stand it Brady, say it again....I don't believe I have done anything wrong."

[jgb]

No chance they will go the court route.  Every fan of every single team in the l;league should be praying for this.  Let the total truth come out I'd say there is about a 99% chance Brady looks FAR worse than he does right now.

 

The second issue is why in the hole wide world he is even being allowed to make a deal, who gets to make deals after being suspend for any reason?  No one, well except for Brady it seems.  Why this whole 'deal' bit is coming up is beyond me.

 

You make you appeal and the commish says suspension up held or reduced, no 'deal'

 

What's right and what's realistic are two different things.  Fact is Brady is a "face" and as such he and his lawyers at least believe that the NFL has some vested interest in not going to court with its marquee player.  They could be miscalculating, but that's their belief.

 

lol  It should be the EXACT opposite.  The NFL should be using the threat of litigation to gain leverage.  The moment it goes to court they can force the ball guys to testify under oath, interview them as often as needed or at least the very least get an affidavit.  Force Brady to hand over his phone records, etc etc.  All that is smoke would become clear.  I can't under stand your stance on this at all.

 

The phone records is a red herring. At this point they are irretrievable.  Carriers hold the logs (who calls who) for a long period of time, but the actual substance of texts is purged quite quickly from the servers.  The only texts the NFL will see in court are those that Brady saved... because they help him.  Besides, if such evidence exists, we'll never see it because Brady won't sue.  If Brady sues, there is no smoking gun.

[flgreen]

ha ha i guess tom brady is the only professional athlete (which i doubt he does) who feels some type of entitlement ha ha, the ONLY one.

 

and ahh i think he has heard no, when he wasn't named starter at Michigan...ha ha you mad at tom brady's life... ha ha

 

Any one here speak pats language,,,,  So we can interpret  this.

[jeaniec]

I know we have a lot of lawyers on the board as well as a slew of posters who never went to law school but I had this thought the other day.

 

The length of time it's taken to resolve deflategate has gone far beyond the level of absurd.  There's gotta' be another play here for Goodell. 

 

Any chance he actually wants to punish Brady and waits as long as possible to uphold the suspension so it can be served before Brady's legal team has time to get it halted or could they stop it immediately?

 

Of course the other reason could be that he's going to lift the ban and he'll do it a day or two before the season starts so that the actual football games will distract fans from the absence of accountability.

I know that Brady plans to appeal in a court of law if the decision stands.  He can play while the appeal is in progress.  If the suspension holds (by the court),  he would be suspended later in the season.  I saw this about a week ago but couldn't find the article to post here.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

How fast Brady can get the injunction is not nearly as big an issue as how fast it could be vacated. In the lockout case it was less than four months.

[PFSIKH]

Brady's is football related, serial cheating is not a good thing mon,  If the state of NC did it's job, Hardy would be in jail and it would not be an NFL problem. Pretty hard to give him a 10 game suspension when he was not prosecuted by the state.

 

Serial cheating?

 

I disagree.  Logic does not make add up.

 

-Jimbo does not control the balls on road games. 

-I think it is safe to say Brady believes the balls are perfect when he gives them over.  If the refs did  not alter balls, then there is no reason for Jimbo to let air out ergo no cheating.

[PFSIKH]

He was suspended primarily for refusing to cooperate fully with a league investigation. What science would exonerate him from that?

 

Like Farve was fined and not suspended for not cooperating on his dick pic fiasco?

 

You are using what the talking heads put out.

[PFSIKH]

Obviously in real life terms what Greg Hardy did was worse. We have a court system in this country that is supposed to deal with that. 

 

From a league perspective, what Brady did was worse. He compromised the integrity of the game, lied about it, tried to cover it up and then refused to fully cooperate with a league investigation. 

 

It would set a horrible precedent for Goodell to set aside his suspension. 

 

And Goodell gets crushed when he punishes a player; which is the same reaction Tags received 10 years ago when he did nothing.

 

While I agree with your point, he looks like a bigger ass clown putting his faith behind a report that has numerous flaws, but wants to maintain the suspension.  He got his pound of flesh and should be happy with that.

 

Plus, his taking now a month to decide makes him look even more incompetent.

[PFSIKH]

Pretty ridiculous question. As a physicist, I believe the science is sound. But of course I would not place my life on it. Anyone can overlook some small detail that might invalidate the conclusions, and dying for that oversight is a bit much to risk. I will go so far as to state I find the science in the Wells report rather compelling.

 

Sorry you missed out on that sweet NFL pay check I bet? 

 

Washingtonn Post said the math does not add up.  Equating the error to a freshman statistics mistake. 

[Jet Fan RI]

Sorry you missed out on that sweet NFL pay check I bet? 

 

Washingtonn Post said the math does not add up.  Equating the error to a freshman statistics mistake. 

 

And who exactly at the WaPo made such a claim? I will admit I did not personally run the numbers. The procedure looked solid, so I accepted it. But if some competent individual can point to a specific computational flaw, i will certainly take a look at it. Hard to believe though that a paper would actually hire a competent person to check the math. I'll bet their source is that ludicrous AEI report, the author(s) of which appear either not to have read the Exponent report or, if they did, then they did not understand what they were reading.

[AFCEastFan]

And who exactly at the WaPo made such a claim? I will admit I did not personally run the numbers. The procedure looked solid, so I accepted it. But if some competent individual can point to a specific computational flaw, i will certainly take a look at it. Hard to believe though that a paper would actually hire a competent person to check the math. I'll bet their source is that ludicrous AEI report, the author(s) of which appear either not to have read the Exponent report or, if they did, then they did not understand what they were reading.

 

Not sure if this is the critique the Washington Post was referring to, but it is perhaps the most "scientific-looking" of the various Wells Report rebuttals.  It is written by a rather controversial figure -- some might say crackpot or oil company shill -- but it is what it is.  It may be total gibberish for all I know.  I would be interested in your take. 

 

http://www.climateaudit.info/data/football/mcintyre_analysis_of_wells_report.pdf

[pdxgreen]

It almost doesn't matter what the evidence is against Brady. Their are people out there getting paid LARGE SUMS of money to debate the political and legal ramifications of what will happen. But Brady is fighting the public's ability to judge his conduct. That's why I think he's against even a plea deal. It wouldn't matter if it was 8 or 12 games, or years, he wants to limit any public record of guiltiness. In comparison, Belichick and Kraft aren't putting up much of a fight. Their legacy isn't riding on this decision, they are probably fine with their relationship to this matter on public record. But NE fans are, they are in the same boat as Brady. Their identity to this glowing era is entirely wrapped up in his image. Ask yourself self this, if an NFL film existed that showed Steelers fans the Immaculate Reception actually touched ground, would they change? I DOUBT IT.

[afosomf]

Serial cheating?

 

I disagree.  Logic does not make add up.

 

-Jimbo does not control the balls on road games. 

-I think it is safe to say Brady believes the balls are perfect when he gives them over.  If the refs did  not alter balls, then there is no reason for Jimbo to let air out ergo no cheating.

bullsh*t 

 

the pats use their own balls in games, doesnt matter if home or away.

[AFJF]

Like Farve was fined and not suspended for not cooperating on his dick pic fiasco?

 

You are using what the talking heads put out.

 

Kleck actually has a valid point here.  Following the investigation ESPN or NFL network, can't remember which one, showed a screen shot of NFL bylaws that say failure to comply with an investigation or past instances of cheating will be taken in to account when considering length of suspension.  So even if you ignore the inflating/deflating, he broke a rule that's covered within the bylaws.  That alone should result in a penalty of some kind.  Won't matter IMO because they're going to vacate this whole thing and just wait for it to go away...and it will go away.

[EM31]

So Brady has until the 29th to accept whatever secret handshake 2-games deal is on the table.

 

As football fans I hope we can collectively persuade him to turn down any deal and insist on a day in court.

 

"But Mr Brady, didn't you know that simply erasing messages from your phone would not completely erase all record of these messages?"

[Jet Fan RI]

Not sure if this is the critique the Washington Post was referring to, but it is perhaps the most "scientific-looking" of the various Wells Report rebuttals.  It is written by a rather controversial figure -- some might say crackpot or oil company shill -- but it is what it is.  It may be total gibberish for all I know.  I would be interested in your take. 

 

http://www.climateaudit.info/data/football/mcintyre_analysis_of_wells_report.pdf

 

Thanks for the link. This report was not written by a crackpot, and the contents are not gibberish. But I will say it is clear that the author's intent was to make a case that, if assumptions are made that are most favorable to the Patriots, the case that the Pat balls were manually deflated becomes less stark. But I disagree with the author that the case falls apart.

 

The most-favorable assumptions include using the pressure gauge that gives the best results for the Pats; assuming a locker-room temperature that is most favorable to the Pats; and neglecting evaporative cooling where it strengthens the case in favor of the Pats.  But the evidence is still well in favor of the Exponent report's claim that it is "more likely than not" that the measured Pat ball pressures are the result of manual tampering while the measured pressures for the Colt balls are not.

 

This board is not the place to go into technical details. But I will at least call attention to the table of measured pressures by the officials at halftime, presented on p. 3 of the Exponent's tech report. The one characteristic that stands out is the large pressure variability from ball to ball in the Pat-ball measurements, vs. the fairly tight variation in pressures in the Colt-ball measurements. For example, the highest and lowest measurements for the Pat balls using the same gauge differ by about 1.4 psi, while the difference between the highest and lowest Colt balls is only about 0.65 psi. Thus the Pat balls show a pressure variability more than double the variability found in the Colt balls. Of course, merely subtracting the highest and lowest values does not make a statistical case, but I think an examination of the table does show the greater variability in the Pat balls, and the detailed statistical analysis of the measurements does reveal this.

 

In my judgment, that one fact alone is suggestive that "it is more likely than not" that the Pat balls were subjected to a hasty manual deflation at some point, while the Colt balls were not.