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Milliners back too!


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Having both McDougle & Milliner back...wow.

This is the deepest secondary in Jets history!

When you think about Bowles unconventional Nickle & Dime defenses & how he'll use sets with 3 safeties, how freaking versatile can this defense be?

Quick, tall, strong, 2015 Jets have all kinds of combinations with the additions of Revis, Cro, Skrine, Williams from last year, Gilchrist, Pryor, Allen, Jarrett, and then getting back both Doogs & Milliner.

If Ik, Reilly, Henderson, Lattimore can solidify that LB crew with Harris & Davis or a guy like Jones the UDFA shines, this might be the best defense the Jets have had since they won the Super Bowl.

Truly excited to see preseason games soon. A lot to watch for, including the finalization of the Oline.

Crazy competition all around on this team now.

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Players can be both great depth and at the same time be inconsistent + unreliable starters, Sunshine.

We drafted Milliner with a #1 pick like we did Kyle Wilson these guys should be paying dividends as starters not depth players or no longer with the team. 

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We drafted Milliner with a #1 pick like we did Kyle Wilson these guys should be paying dividends as starters not depth players or no longer with the team. 

 

Wilson and Milliner are not comparable. Wilson is a bust, no question but as for Milliner he played really well at the end of his rookie year and then got hurt last year. It's a little early to bail on Milliner imo but considering both mcdougle and Milliner's injury history we were forced into bringing in Cro. Hopefully Milliner evolves into the stud we hoped and we can cut ties with Cro at the end of the year. 

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Wilson and Milliner are not comparable. Wilson is a bust, no question but as for Milliner he played really well at the end of his rookie year and then got hurt last year. It's a little early to bail on Milliner imo but considering both mcdougle and Milliner's injury history we were forced into bringing in Cro. Hopefully Milliner evolves into the stud we hoped and we can cut ties with Cro at the end of the year. 

Comparable both #1 draft picks.

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and comparable in terms of the value the team has received in return for their investment too.  Until that changes Milliner and Wilson are absolutely comparable.

one player played for 5 years with the jets and the jets didn't want him back. second player started 1 year, suffered a season ending injury, and his back for his 3rd year. how are the 2 camparable? they are not

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We drafted Milliner with a #1 pick like we did Kyle Wilson these guys should be paying dividends as starters not depth players or no longer with the team. 

 

1. All first round picks should pan out. It is hardly a rarity for the opposite to come true.

 

2. Milliner's career isn't the same as Wilson's.

 

3. Your original point suggests that because neither McDougle nor Milliner has panned out yet as starters, that neither one has any value as depth. Wherever they were drafted, and however their career went up to now, a player need not be a reliable starter to be considered a reliable and valuable backup. And in this case, there are two of them.

 

They're projected to be the #4 and #5 corners respectively. A team could do a lot worse than those two, and in NFL careers they're both still just babies. Maybe they never turn into anything, but few teams can boast a pair of corners that low on their depth charts with the ceiling these two have. Mostly those types tend to be has-beens, low draft picks, and cheap street FAs.

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Injury prone Milliner and McDougle are the reason we had to go out and re-sign Revis and Cro until he proves his worth I'm not getting too excited.

Revis was getting signed no matter what. He's a best in league player, better than either Milliner or Dex. Perfect mentor too.

Players can go from injury prone to iron man. Happens. Look at Phil Simms. Hard to be more negative than that post.

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Revis was getting signed no matter what. He's a best in league player, better than either Milliner or Dex. Perfect mentor too.

Players can go from injury prone to iron man. Happens. Look at Phil Simms. Hard to be more negative than that post.

 

Yeah I'm pretty happy with our lowest depth at corner being a pair like those two. If neither turns out to be anything as starters, they can still be useful - even big assets - in spurts. Plus they get a year of practice and playing time behind some guys who have had a world of success, and if either one starts to realize his potential he's starting next year in Cromartie's spot. Possibly both, with one of them maybe bumping Skrine (whose job as the "starting" slot corner is hardly untouchable even though he was just signed to good money). Best guy plays, not the most expensive guy. Typically the most expensive guy is the best guy, but not always. 

 

Anyway, at least we have a pair that low down on the depth chart that have good potential in their current job for 2015 and higher for the future. Usually decent ones that far down CB/DB depth chart - ones who are even good enough to stick around as backups and special teamers for a few years - are Isaiah Trufant / Drew Coleman types. The rest tend to be guys who are immediately replaced and released by March of the following football season (if they even make it through the current season).

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Exactly, having 2 corners like McDougle & Milliner as your 4th & 5th corners is pretty exciting. Add Williams who played pretty damn well last year (teams chose to target Walls over Williams) and you've got an incredibly deep secondary.

Plus you have 3 players fighting for Cromartys job! Cro has always been feast or famine so we have good players behind him, should he faulter & we move him to the 4th or 5th corner!

How cool would it be for Bowles to use Cro as a floating free safety in his 3 safety sets? Cro loves to jump routes & with his length would make it difficult to go deep with him just playing center field.

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Yeah I'm pretty happy with our lowest depth at corner being a pair like those two. If neither turns out to be anything as starters, they can still be useful - even big assets - in spurts. Plus they get a year of practice and playing time behind some guys who have had a world of success, and if either one starts to realize his potential he's starting next year in Cromartie's spot. Possibly both, with one of them maybe bumping Skrine (whose job as the "starting" slot corner is hardly untouchable even though he was just signed to good money). Best guy plays, not the most expensive guy. Typically the most expensive guy is the best guy, but not always. 

 

Anyway, at least we have a pair that low down on the depth chart that have good potential in their current job for 2015 and higher for the future. Usually decent ones that far down CB/DB depth chart - ones who are even good enough to stick around as backups and special teamers for a few years - are Isaiah Trufant / Drew Coleman types. The rest tend to be guys who are immediately replaced and released by March of the following football season (if they even make it through the current season).

Exactly.  We're in such an enviable place with the corners.  Two pro bowlers starting and with Cros deal basically a one year deal if the Jets want it to be it gets better on every level.  His spot is a carrot on the end of a stick for Milliner and Dex, they have something to shoot for while they fill in or practice etc.  People need to look around the league at teams starters and compare to what we have and then look at the backups and compare.  I don't see a single team that we should be envious of taking these things into account.

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Exactly.  We're in such an enviable place with the corners.  Two pro bowlers starting and with Cros deal basically a one year deal if the Jets want it to be it gets better on every level.  His spot is a carrot on the end of a stick for Milliner and Dex, they have something to shoot for while they fill in or practice etc.  People need to look around the league at teams starters and compare to what we have and then look at the backups and compare.  I don't see a single team that we should be envious of taking these things into account.

 

I don't find it so enviable.  It was a reactionary move.  They dumped $30M in salary at CB when they are already paying MIlliner 1st round pick money and another decent size contract to Gilchrist a S who is a converted CB.  I am sure they are hoping to cut Cromartie and probably Gilchrist next season, but that is a bunch of scratch they intentionally didn't spend last season.

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what does that even mean????  great depth but unreliable?  Really???

 

Put the bong down.

 

You've really never seen an NFL player that is really good as a backup but subpar as a regular/every-down starter?

 

A 4th corner may be fully capable of getting subbed in & out to cover a 4th WR and not be capable of covering either of the starters (let alone on every down). 

 

Further, a very young player may be of that good backup/depth variety while possessing the ability to become far better, unlike a veteran backup/depth player whose ceiling is as a backup/depth player.

 

How is this confusing to you?

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Yeah I'm pretty happy with our lowest depth at corner being a pair like those two. If neither turns out to be anything as starters, they can still be useful - even big assets - in spurts. Plus they get a year of practice and playing time behind some guys who have had a world of success, and if either one starts to realize his potential he's starting next year in Cromartie's spot. Possibly both, with one of them maybe bumping Skrine (whose job as the "starting" slot corner is hardly untouchable even though he was just signed to good money). Best guy plays, not the most expensive guy. Typically the most expensive guy is the best guy, but not always. 

 

Anyway, at least we have a pair that low down on the depth chart that have good potential in their current job for 2015 and higher for the future. Usually decent ones that far down CB/DB depth chart - ones who are even good enough to stick around as backups and special teamers for a few years - are Isaiah Trufant / Drew Coleman types. The rest tend to be guys who are immediately replaced and released by March of the following football season (if they even make it through the current season).

 

Yeah I'm pretty happy with our lowest depth at corner being a pair like those two. If neither turns out to be anything as starters, they can still be useful - even big assets - in spurts. Plus they get a year of practice and playing time behind some guys who have had a world of success, and if either one starts to realize his potential he's starting next year in Cromartie's spot. Possibly both, with one of them maybe bumping Skrine (whose job as the "starting" slot corner is hardly untouchable even though he was just signed to good money). Best guy plays, not the most expensive guy. Typically the most expensive guy is the best guy, but not always. 

 

Anyway, at least we have a pair that low down on the depth chart that have good potential in their current job for 2015 and higher for the future. Usually decent ones that far down CB/DB depth chart - ones who are even good enough to stick around as backups and special teamers for a few years - are Isaiah Trufant / Drew Coleman types. The rest tend to be guys who are immediately replaced and released by March of the following football season (if they even make it through the current season).

 

Agree with this largely, and I'm very excited about Milliner's chances this year and beyond, but I think we need to slow it with talking about McDougle as though he's a known quantity

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You've really never seen an NFL player that is really good as a backup but subpar as a regular/every-down starter?

 

A 4th corner may be fully capable of getting subbed in & out to cover a 4th WR and not be capable of covering either of the starters (let alone on every down). 

 

Further, a very young player may be of that good backup/depth variety while possessing the ability to become far better, unlike a veteran backup/depth player whose ceiling is as a backup/depth player.

 

How is this confusing to you

If he is unreliable..he cant be great at anything.  

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Plenty of people are calling Cro great.  He certainly has shown questionable reliability and consistency.  He made the pro bowl last year.  FWIW, he made the pro bowl in 2013 too and he gave up a sh*t load of TDs.  Long ones.

Understood...  I am being a little tongue and cheek and fully understand Sperms point. 

 

I dont think I have ever heard any one of any credibility call Cromartie great since 2010 or so.  

he is solid, .....

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Milliner really hasn't shown much so far.  A flash at the end of his rookie season.   He was drafted 9th over all.  A lot is expected from him.  The Achilles injury really put a damper on him.    

 

Good news is that the other day in the tweets several scribes noted that he was moving well.  Big year fort he kid.  if he's healthy he'll be expected to contribute.

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Milliner really hasn't shown much so far.  A flash at the end of his rookie season.   He was drafted 9th over all.  A lot is expected from him.  The Achilles injury really put a damper on him.    

 

Good news is that the other day in the tweets several scribes noted that he was moving well.  Big year fort he kid.  if he's healthy he'll be expected to contribute.

milliner has shown plenty, if one knows what to look for. he has the tools and the smarts to be great. not just good, great. the jets threw him in the fire his rookie year and it took him a while to catch up to the speed of the game. milliners downfall could/would be his fragile body. unfortunetely, might be enough. however, if his body stays together(big if) I fully expect him to easily take cro's job. and while we are on the subject, mcdougle has a real shot at skrines job as well

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The point of my post was that the 2 corners that we were hoping would be our starters last year are at this moment fighting to be the 5th & 6th CBs on the team considering Williams is probably healthier than both of them.

You put talented guys that might not be STARTING #1 material and now have them cover 4th options for the opposing team & those options might as well not even be there!

Now when you have Revis already shutting down option#1 and Cro chasing option #2, Skrine following the slot option, and the plethora of varied skilled safeties the Jets are employing to go along with a coach with a vast knowledge of secondary play it leads me to believe that Bowles options are expanded way more than he had in Arizona.

Seeing Milliner & McDougle as nickel & dime CBs is pretty exciting.

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milliner has shown plenty, if one knows what to look for. he has the tools and the smarts to be great. not just good, great. the jets threw him in the fire his rookie year and it took him a while to catch up to the speed of the game. milliners downfall could/would be his fragile body. unfortunetely, might be enough. however, if his body stays together(big if) I fully expect him to easily take cro's job. and while we are on the subject, mcdougle has a real shot at skrines job as well

 

Having physical tools isn't showing something, let alone plenty.  If it was all about physical tools Browning, and Johnny Mitchell would be on their way to the HOF.   Milliner besides a few flashes, hasn't shown much

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Having physical tools isn't showing something, let alone plenty.  If it was all about physical tools Browning, and Johnny Mitchell would be on their way to the HOF.   Milliner besides a few flashes, hasn't shown much

he has shown plenty.

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If he is unreliable..he cant be great at anything.  

 

That is not true.

 

A player can be a great backup yet would be unreliable as a starter. For example a CB who can easily handle other teams' 4th-5th WRs but would have inconsistent results if matched up against starters. This is why some reliable backups, particularly at CB, remain backups. They seem great but when they get promoted to match up against better WRs all game long they get torched/exposed.

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That is not true.

A player can be a great backup yet would be unreliable as a starter. For example a CB who can easily handle other teams' 4th-5th WRs but would have inconsistent results if matched up against starters. This is why some reliable backups, particularly at CB, remain backups. They seem great but when they get promoted to match up against better WRs all game long they get torched/exposed.

Ray mickens would be a good example. He was good covering slot receivers as the 3rd cb but sucked balls against any #1 on the outside

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I don't find it so enviable. It was a reactionary move. They dumped $30M in salary at CB when they are already paying MIlliner 1st round pick money and another decent size contract to Gilchrist a S who is a converted CB. I am sure they are hoping to cut Cromartie and probably Gilchrist next season, but that is a bunch of scratch they intentionally didn't spend last season.

Of course it was reactionary. It was a reaction to the fact that we sucked at corner last year. And Milliner and Dex were complete unknowns at the start of free agency health wise, with Dex a complete unknown as he never played in a real NFL game. Gilchrist? He might be one of the most important signings when all is said and done. He's not going anywhere unless he does a complete turnaround and sucks.

There were needs on this team and they filled them, if that's reactionary then good

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That is not true.

 

A player can be a great backup yet would be unreliable as a starter. For example a CB who can easily handle other teams' 4th-5th WRs but would have inconsistent results if matched up against starters. This is why some reliable backups, particularly at CB, remain backups. They seem great but when they get promoted to match up against better WRs all game long they get torched/exposed.

Name ONE great player who is unreliable?

 

GREAT BACKUP???  Now you change the facts to suit you?

 

You must be in politics. :)

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