Milliners back too!

[Shadetree]

he has shown plenty.

No..he hasn't. Had a good 3-4 week run at the end of a lost season. He was healthy heading into last year and was god-awful until tragedy struck and tore his Achilles.

Things are not looking good for milliner. And once mcdougal surpasses him-which looks like a reality early in camp-where do they put him? I'm curious to see how the CB depth chart pans out. Based on Bowles background, he must feel like a kid in a candy store with this defensive backfield.

[ylekram]

He was healthy heading into last year and was god-awful

just gotta ask. where does this statement come from? thin air maybe?

[Shadetree]

just gotta ask. where does this statement come from? thin air maybe?

So they played him against GB and Aaron Rodgers because he was half-speed?

[ylekram]

So they played him against GB and Aaron Rodgers because he was half-speed?

huh?

[Shadetree]

huh?

Week 3 against GB

[Shadetree]

just gotta ask. where does this statement come from? thin air maybe?

Maybe my memory is fuzzy and I couldn't find via google. IIRC, milliner started first three games last year. I remember (fuzzy as it may be) milliner 2-5 yards away from every completion thrown his way, culminating with a complete undressing by Rodgers and Nelson before POP went the Achilles.

I don't dislike milliner. He seems like he's been a solid citizen and I don't want to bash the kid (thanks, again, Sheldon, you big dummy), but milliners got three precious weeks to hold off a hot-hand, quick-twitch, ball-hawking, CB-blitzin', non-Achilles-injured mcdougal. I just don't see how he can hold the kid off. Lack of game day experience be damned, macdougal is comin for your boy, Ylekram.

[#27TheDominator]

Of course it was reactionary. It was a reaction to the fact that we sucked at corner last year. And Milliner and Dex were complete unknowns at the start of free agency health wise, with Dex a complete unknown as he never played in a real NFL game. Gilchrist? He might be one of the most important signings when all is said and done. He's not going anywhere unless he does a complete turnaround and sucks.

There were needs on this team and they filled them, if that's reactionary then good

 

You seem to be arguing with me.  I am glad they did it, but I don't see it as so enviable.  They spent over $30M in the secondary this year alone.  Give me $50M and I will make a killer secondary too.  That is my point.  All the money we are going to need to pay the D line will probably be coming from saving on this high dollar secondary.  To me an enviable position is where we are at D line where we have tons of guys high level and locked up and more in the pipeline to take over. 

 

Ray Mickens was good...  not great.

 

Ray Mickens was the #1 rated slot corner for several years.  He would be a very rich man today.  

 

 

. He was healthy heading into last year and was god-awful until tragedy struck and tore his Achilles.

 

 

False as can be.  http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/jets/post/_/id/43028/injury-report-rex-expects-dee-to-debut

 

 

Maybe my memory is fuzzy and I couldn't find via google. IIRC, milliner started first three games last year. I remember (fuzzy as it may be) milliner 2-5 yards away from every completion thrown his way, culminating  the with a complete undressing by Rodgers and Nelson before POP went the Achilles.

I don't dislike milliner. He seems like he's been a solid citizen and I don't want to bash the kid (thanks, again, Sheldon, you big dummy), but milliners got three precious weeks to hold off a hot-hand, quick-twitch, ball-hawking, CB-blitzin', non-Achilles-injured mcdougal. I just don't see how he can hold the kid off. Lack of game day experience be damned, macdougal is comin for your boy, Ylekram.

 

Your memory is flawed.  Milliner was injured through most of camp last year.  Hamstring I believe and Rex chided him in the press about taking care of his body and being ready.  He didn't start the season.  That is why Allen started week 1.  He didn't start the Green Bay game. They were easing him back.  He looked good in the first half.  Much better than Allen and Walls which is what led to them sticking him on Nelson to be exposed. It was obvious he wasn't 100% and he exacerbated the injury.  He missed the next couple, came back, played one game and blew out the achilles early the next week.  I find it amusing that you want to treat Milliner like he is made of glass and wonder how he will hold off McDougle.  

[Shadetree]

I stand corrected..thank you

Still don't think hell hold off mcdougal based on what I've seen (or think I've seen) from him and with an Achilles injury .

gut feeling from camp reports too. Mcdougal seems to be active and making positive plays.

I'll be happy for milliner if I'm wrong cuz he's not carrying a gun w a 12 year old and drag racing. I've turned over a new leaf that way. Good citizens get less dislike from me. I feel born-again. I'm gonna knock on some neighbors doors and let them know.

[Gas2No99]

Ray Mickens was good...  not great.

He was a GREAT nickel CB.

He was a good outside CB but was SLAUGHTERED by anyone he covered who was receiving the ball taller than 6'1"

[Jet Nut]

You seem to be arguing with me.  I am glad they did it, but I don't see it as so enviable.  They spent over $30M in the secondary this year alone.  Give me $50M and I will make a killer secondary too.  That is my point.  All the money we are going to need to pay the D line will probably be coming from saving on this high dollar secondary.  To me an enviable position is where we are at D line where we have tons of guys high level and locked up and more in the pipeline to take over. 

I'm not arguing, I just said reactionary is exactly what they should have been.  They had to react to the poor play of 2014.  I just don't get the line of thinking that they shouldnt have paid for the secondary because the DL will need to be signed years from now.  They could sign Mo today if they wanted to, the secondary took nothing away from that.  Who knows what will happen with Sheldon, precisely why you spend where you need to spend today, tomorrow may change.   

[#27TheDominator]

I'm not arguing, I just said reactionary is exactly what they should have been.  They had to react to the poor play of 2014.  I just don't get the line of thinking that they shouldnt have paid for the secondary because the DL will need to be signed years from now.  They could sign Mo today if they wanted to, the secondary took nothing away from that.  Who knows what will happen with Sheldon, precisely why you spend where you need to spend today, tomorrow may change.   

 

You're not arguing, but you are arguing.  I just said I don't think it is such an enviable position.  Any team that wanted to drop $30+M would have ended up in a similar situation.  They sucked, they spent, hopefully they don't suck anymore.  Big ******* deal.  I did not say it was the wrong thing to do, but you can't throw that kind of money at every problem.  It's not a sustainable strategy.

[Jetster]

Actually Milliner was suffering from a high ankle sprain, one of the most painful injuries in the NFL to play with. Especially for a CB who needs to make quick cuts & sharp digs into the ground which torques your ankle.

He wasn't close to being ready when Rex put him in the Green Bay game!

[Sperm Edwards]

Name ONE great player who is unreliable?

 

GREAT BACKUP???  Now you change the facts to suit you?

 

You must be in politics.

 

Change what facts? A player can be great - or very good or whatever word/phrase doesn't set off your personal alert meter - at a backup job, yet only be good in spurts or show some flashes, offset with some bad play (i.e. unreliable or inconsistent) as a regular, every down starter.

 

In short spurts - a random play here or there like a 4th/5th corner might be in on, going up against similarly lower depth chart WRs - a unreliable/inconsistent player can play great. But it need not be at corner.

 

Wayne Hunter did a good to great job for us as a backup and in spot duty when Woody went down. But like any backup, intentionally or otherwise, he got graded on a curve because everyone knew he was just a backup and expectations were lowered. As a full-time starter, even though he had good plays and good games (though those escape me and most people now), expectations were different. Plus he was crap. Not because he was a turnstile or pushover on every play, but because he was inconsistent. Two good plays offset by one bad one, and you're a trainwreck as a player. As the every down starter that's what he seemed like. But in spot duty he was far better and didn't get so badly exposed.

 

Ray Lucas was a great 3rd QB for us.  Saying as much doesn't necessarily infer that he was a great starting QB, comparable to other great starters that year.

 

Is there no one you've ever worked with who you felt was a lousy accountant? Or lousy in the capacity in which he was working, where you might have said, "Joe would be great just doing someone's personal taxes - or as a freaking bookkeeper - where his limits aren't a liability, but as a higher level CPA he's an incompetent boob"? Your comments connote that you've gotten this far in life having never heard of the Peter Principle or witnessed it in action.

 

A CB could be great at covering other teams' backups and at the same time be too inconsistent to match up against their regular starters. With these 2 kids, it also comes with the bonus upside of (purportedly) very talented young prospects who may yet turn into consistent starters.

 

I honestly don't see the controversy, unless you were just in the mood to get into it with someone over nothing. 

[Jet Nut]

You're not arguing, but you are arguing.  I just said I don't think it is such an enviable position.  Any team that wanted to drop $30+M would have ended up in a similar situation.  They sucked, they spent, hopefully they don't suck anymore.  Big ******* deal.  I did not say it was the wrong thing to do, but you can't throw that kind of money at every problem.  It's not a sustainable strategy.

WTF do you come here for, to agree with every point, to start a circle jerk where everyone takes everyone's word as gospel?

What is interesting is how you keep going back and forth in single posts. Anyone could spend, even you could have, it's not wrong, but you can't solve a problem by spending money???? How then, snap your fingers and it goes away? They had Milliner and Dex but how'd that work out last year? No problem it's another year.

All this while ignoring they didn't spend 30+ mil, they spent on Revis and 1 season on Cro. Lighten up already

[southparkcpa]

Change what facts? A player can be great - or very good or whatever word/phrase doesn't set off your personal alert meter - at a backup job, yet only be good in spurts or show some flashes, offset with some bad play (i.e. unreliable or inconsistent) as a regular, every down starter.

 

In short spurts - a random play here or there like a 4th/5th corner might be in on, going up against similarly lower depth chart WRs - a unreliable/inconsistent player can play great. But it need not be at corner.

 

Wayne Hunter did a good to great job for us as a backup and in spot duty when Woody went down. But like any backup, intentionally or otherwise, he got graded on a curve because everyone knew he was just a backup and expectations were lowered. As a full-time starter, even though he had good plays and good games (though those escape me and most people now), expectations were different. Plus he was crap. Not because he was a turnstile or pushover on every play, but because he was inconsistent. Two good plays offset by one bad one, and you're a trainwreck as a player. As the every down starter that's what he seemed like. But in spot duty he was far better and didn't get so badly exposed.

 

Ray Lucas was a great 3rd QB for us.  Saying as much doesn't necessarily infer that he was a great starting QB, comparable to other great starters that year.

 

Is there no one you've ever worked with who you felt was a lousy accountant? Or lousy in the capacity in which he was working, where you might have said, "Joe would be great just doing someone's personal taxes - or as a freaking bookkeeper - where his limits aren't a liability, but as a higher level CPA he's an incompetent boob"? Your comments connote that you've gotten this far in life having never heard of the Peter Principle or witnessed it in action.

 

A CB could be great at covering other teams' backups and at the same time be too inconsistent to match up against their regular starters. With these 2 kids, it also comes with the bonus upside of (purportedly) very talented young prospects who may yet turn into consistent starters.

 

I honestly don't see the controversy, unless you were just in the mood to get into it with someone over nothing. 

I simply hold the word GREAT to starters and those who make a significant impact on success. Good and great are different.

A great back up??   We simply disagree.   

 

I remember when Greg Norman hadn't won a major at a certain point and flustered he told the press... "There are many great golfers who have not won a major".

 

Someone responded...name one.   He was all crickets.

[#27TheDominator]

WTF do you come here for, to agree with every point, to start a circle jerk where everyone takes everyone's word as gospel?

What is interesting is how you keep going back and forth in single posts. Anyone could spend, even you could have, it's not wrong, but you can't solve a problem by spending money???? How then, snap your fingers and it goes away? They had Milliner and Dex but how'd that work out last year? No problem it's another year.

All this while ignoring they didn't spend 30+ mil, they spent on Revis and 1 season on Cro. Lighten up already

 

My point is that we agree that we are glad to have this secondary.  I just didn't think it was an "enviable position".  I am glad that they did it.  My real hope is that the coach and GM are on the same page.  Rex may have browbeat the GMs to give him certain guys, but Idzik hung him out to dry last year.  If I were his GM I would have given Rex CBs and forced him to scheme D line/LB and tried to load up on offensive weapons.  Instead they drafted DE after DE.  To me this secondary is like the year we had Favre.  Yeah it is good and a huge improvement over the year prior, but I don't feel it is an "enviable position."   It is a huge allocation of resources. 

 

For me, an enviable position has been our Dline the last couple of years.  The $30M figure was for Revis, Cro, Skrine and Gilchrist for this year alone.  I guess they had to spend, so it is no big deal and only the Revis deal is big enough to be an albatross long term.

 

Not sure what I am supposed to lighten up about.  I am down to 185!

[Sperm Edwards]

I simply hold the word GREAT to starters and those who make a significant impact on success. Good and great are different.

A great back up??   We simply disagree.   

 

I remember when Greg Norman hadn't won a major at a certain point and flustered he told the press... "There are many great golfers who have not won a major".

 

Someone responded...name one.   He was all crickets.

 

Well your personal preference and reverence for the word is on you, not on me, and hardly justifies your initial reply to me. Particularly since I wasn't singularly addressing you with the post that offended your senses so badly. I take for granted most Jets fans think Ray Lucas did a great job for us in 1999: he did a great job for a 3rd string QB. Few - or none - among those same people think this necessarily means he was a great QB.

 

Ditto Josh McCown, who did a great job filling in for Jay Cutler in 2013. However he was not and is not a great QB. His being unreliable/inconsistent would have been even more apparent if asked to start more than a handful of games (particularly without the advantages of healthy+elite pass catchers, as well as the simultaneous benefit of mostly playing awful pass defenses, against whom he chiefly inflated his stats). But for a backup? Yeah I'd still have to say he did a great job, and believe most would agree.

 

One can do a great job doing what is asked of him (covering backups and occasional/spot duty) and be only inconsistent or unreliable when asked to do a harder job. But it's nothing to sneeze at and brush aside, as there are plenty of 4th/5th corners who are incapable of even handling 4th/5th WRs effectively. The Jets have had plenty of them over the years.  These two can give us great play in the job asked to do, despite being inconsistent or unreliable in the past, and one or both could prove be average to above average as a starter in the future. Either may also show surprising additional value on special teams, now that they're not needed as every down starters.

 

Generally, I don't think most people would measure a backup player the same way they'd measure a starter. They're simply rated on a different scale, based upon typical expectations for the roster spot.

[southparkcpa]

Well your personal preference and reverence for the word is on you, not on me, and hardly justifies your initial reply to me. Particularly since I wasn't singularly addressing you with the post that offended your senses so badly.

 

 

Never happen...  this is all fun for me.  Trust me, its all good on my end. Hope same for you.

 

 

Generally, I don't think most people would measure a backup player the same way they'd measure a starter. They're simply rated on a different scale, based upon typical expectations for the roster spot.

 

This I agree with you.

[southparkcpa]

WTF do you come here for, to agree with every point, to start a circle jerk where everyone takes everyone's word as gospel?

What is interesting is how you keep going back and forth in single posts. Anyone could spend, even you could have, it's not wrong, but you can't solve a problem by spending money???? How then, snap your fingers and it goes away? They had Milliner and Dex but how'd that work out last year? No problem it's another year.

All this while ignoring they didn't spend 30+ mil, they spent on Revis and 1 season on Cro. Lighten up already

This is the JET NUT I remember from JI!

[Sperm Edwards]

Well your personal preference and reverence for the word is on you, not on me, and hardly justifies your initial reply to me. Particularly since I wasn't singularly addressing you with the post that offended your senses so badly.

 

 

Never happen...  this is all fun for me.  Trust me, its all good on my end. Hope same for you.

 

 

Generally, I don't think most people would measure a backup player the same way they'd measure a starter. They're simply rated on a different scale, based upon typical expectations for the roster spot.

 

This I agree with you.

No. I like totally hate you now.

[southparkcpa]

No. I like totally hate you now.

well..I LOVE YOU - no homo.