ljr Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Assuming that if we were to spend the money to bring Evan Mathis in at RG this year it would cement us not being able to keep both Mo & Sheldon in 2016 & beyond ... but if we did not Big Mac finds a way to keep both DE's. Very curiouis to see which order you all would put these 3 options in ... I'm sure Richardson getting himself in double trouble certainly will take away a chunk of what would have been his supporters a couple months ago 2016 & Beyond - What Order Would You Choose? A. Winters/Qvale, Sheldon Richardson, Mo Wilkerson B. Evan Mathis, Sheldon Richardson, Quentin Coples C. Evan Mathis, Mo Wilkerson, Quentin Coples Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Assuming that if we were to spend the money to bring Evan Mathis in at RG this year it would cement us not being able to keep both Mo & Sheldon in 2016 & beyond ... but if we did not Big Mac finds a way to keep both DE's. Very curiouis to see which order you all would put these 3 options in ... I'm sure Richardson getting himself in double trouble certainly will take away a chunk of what would have been his supporters a couple months ago 2016 & Beyond - What Order Would You Choose? A. Winters/Qvale, Sheldon Richardson, Mo Wilkerson B. Evan Mathis, Sheldon Richardson, Quentin Coples C. Evan Mathis, Mo Wilkerson, Quentin Coples That's a flawed premise Mathis will be 34 in Nov all the other guys are young.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Adding a ProBowl caliber OL would be great, but Mathis is 34 and even though OL play deep into their 30's I wouldn't risk a whole lot of money on him. I would keep Winters/Qvale and sign Mo Wilkerson. Sheldon is something that is on the back burner right now and he will have to show the Jets management that he is not the idiot trouble seeking fool that he has been lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 How does the suspension money work? Does it get taken off the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Sheldon is not going a new contract for quite a while at :LEAST two years. We have Sheldon for four more years without resigning him. We won't even consider it until he is out of the substance abuse program, so the entire concept is moot. We will sign Mo at some point, likely with less per year than he wants and more guarantees than the Jets want, and we will let Sheldon play out his contract. Damon Harrison is really the interesting one in terms of whether we keep him or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EM31 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Sheldon is not going a new contract for quite a while at :LEAST two years. We have Sheldon for four more years without resigning him. We won't even consider it until he is out of the substance abuse program, so the entire concept is moot. We will sign Mo at some point, likely with less per year than he wants and more guarantees than the Jets want, and we will let Sheldon play out his contract. Damon Harrison is really the interesting one in terms of whether we keep him or not. The four more years premise is flawed because the Franchise cost in those two years will also trigger the same discussion. Certainly a 2nd franchise year would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 How does the suspension money work? Does it get taken off the cap? His base salary is. Any pro rated bonus' remain against the cap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 That's a flawed premise Mathis will be 34 in Nov all the other guys are young.. My premise is simply we have certain positional strengths (DE) and weaknesses (RG) right now in 2015. The salary cap limits the amount of $$$ we can spend and our decisions at these 2 positions may have a big impact on our options/roster for 2016-2018. ... i think it will be interesting to see where/who our fellow Jets fans would choose to spend that $$$ on if they were forced to pick only 2 or these 3 players. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here ... and i'm sure many people may even choose to only spend the $$$ on 1 or even none of these guys ... just thought it may be interesting to have to choose. The $$$ that it will take to bring Mathis in will be significant ... it would be reasonable to think if we paid him we'd have him under our FO's control from 2015-2018 ... and it would be reasonable that he will play through those years This topic was simply an attempt to see if people had to only pick 2 of these 3 players from 2016-2018, what order they'd choose them in. Mo's potential weakness would be that he's not as physically dominant as Sheldon Sheldon's potential weakness is will he F up again & what consequences will that bring Mathis's potential weakness would be possible declining performance due to age anyway, weighing those odds where do you all stand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If you pick B or C, please board Elon Musk's rocket and steer it into the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 How does the suspension money work? Does it get taken off the cap? not sure what the Collective Bargaining rules are ... although i believe i've heard others discuss if Sheldon's suspended for 10 or more games then we have him for an extra year ... not sure if that also impacts our cap hit in 2015 or not. for the sake of argument here let's just say our cap structure forces you to have to chose 2 of these 3 guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 His base salary is. Any pro rated bonus' remain against the cap Well, yeah. He already got the bonus so it should. The 4 games doesn't amount to much - about $330K. I was thinking along the lines of the option year. They will certainly exercise if the suspension money doesn't count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 My premise is simply we have certain positional strengths (DE) and weaknesses (RG) right now in 2015. The salary cap limits the amount of $$$ we can spend and our decisions at these 2 positions may have a big impact on our options/roster for 2016-2018. ... i think it will be interesting to see where/who our fellow Jets fans would choose to spend that $$$ on if they were forced to pick only 2 or these 3 players. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here ... and i'm sure many people may even choose to only spend the $$$ on 1 or even none of these guys ... just thought it may be interesting to have to choose. The $$$ that it will take to bring Mathis in will be significant ... it would be reasonable to think if we paid him we'd have him under our FO's control from 2015-2018 ... and it would be reasonable that he will play through those years This topic was simply an attempt to see if people had to only pick 2 of these 3 players from 2016-2018, what order they'd choose them in. Mo's potential weakness would be that he's not as physically dominant as Sheldon Sheldon's potential weakness is will he F up again & what consequences will that bring Mathis's potential weakness would be possible declining performance due to age anyway, weighing those odds where do you all stand? I don't think bringing a old guy in is the right move but there is something else weird about Mathis.. He was a 3rd rd pick in 2005 and got really noticed just in his last 2 years.. He has started 78 games in 10 years, Brandon Moore a UDFA Guard for the Jets started 142 games in 10 years.. So IMO I pass if I was the GM.. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MathEv20.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Well, yeah. He already got the bonus so it should. The 4 games doesn't amount to much - about $330K. I was thinking along the lines of the option year. They will certainly exercise if the suspension money doesn't count. If I'm understanding you correctly, the option year will be significantly higher then his base salary this year. His base is about 2.8 million this season. Wilkerson is getting 6,969,000 for his option year at the same position Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ylekram Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Assuming that if we were to spend the money to bring Evan Mathis in at RG this year it would cement us not being able to keep both Mo & Sheldon in 2016 & beyond ... but if we did not Big Mac finds a way to keep both DE's. Very curiouis to see which order you all would put these 3 options in ... I'm sure Richardson getting himself in double trouble certainly will take away a chunk of what would have been his supporters a couple months ago 2016 & Beyond - What Order Would You Choose? A. Winters/Qvale, Sheldon Richardson, Mo Wilkerson B. Evan Mathis, Sheldon Richardson, Quentin Coples C. Evan Mathis, Mo Wilkerson, Quentin Coples the jets control Richardson until the start of the 2018 season. don't see why we are worrying about a player who has 3 more easily controlled seasons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 I don't think bringing a old guy in is the right move but there is something else weird about Mathis.. He was a 3rd rd pick in 2005 and got really noticed just in his last 2 years.. He has started 78 games in 10 years, Brandon Moore a UDFA Guard for the Jets started 142 games in 10 years.. So IMO I pass if I was the GM.. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MathEv20.htm appreciate the response Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 If I'm understanding you correctly, the option year will be significantly higher then his base salary this year. His base is about 2.8 million this season. Wilkerson is getting 6,969,000 for his option year at the same position Yes. I'm sure it will be going up. IIRC, the top 10 (Milliner) get the transition tag amount. Outside the top 10 get some kind of average of like the 3rd - 25th salaries at the position. It probably will go up significantly though it may depend on who they consider at the position. There is the Suh contract and there will be Wilkerson, the Cameron's Liuget and I'm sure plenty of others will be raising the figure going forward, but it will be a good way to hang onto him while seeing if his head is on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 the jets control Richardson until the start of the 2018 season. don't see why we are worrying about a player who has 3 more easily controlled seasons my main reason is that decisions at RG & with Mo at DE will need to be made before that. If Evan Mathis was paid & Mo was paid, our likelihood of also keeping & paying Sheldon (even if he stays on the straight & narrow) go down (assuming Williams is legit). here's a good article discussing Richardson, and the possibility that he may become trade bait http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2015/08/why_besides_his_skill_jets_sheldon_richardson_coul.html anyway, it's just a hypothetical situation with the status of our roster at RG (0 legit players) and DE (possibly 3 above average or better players for 2 game day positions) in its current form and how taking the Salary Cap into consideration would impact who is on our roster 2016-2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdetroit Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 How does the suspension money work? Does it get taken off the cap? No but the silver lining to the Sheldon Richardson meltdown is that we won't have to pay big bucks to lock him up in a couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 3, 2015 Author Share Posted August 3, 2015 Yes. I'm sure it will be going up. IIRC, the top 10 (Milliner) get the transition tag amount. Outside the top 10 get some kind of average of like the 3rd - 25th salaries at the position. It probably will go up significantly though it may depend on who they consider at the position. There is the Suh contract and there will be Wilkerson, the Cameron's Liuget and I'm sure plenty of others will be raising the figure going forward, but it will be a good way to hang onto him while seeing if his head is on straight. that same article in my reply above discusses Richardson's possible fifth year option: What could Richardson's fifth-year option figure be in 2017? Consider that the fifth-year option figure in 2016 for first-round defensive ends drafted outside the top 10 (as Richardson was, at No. 13) is likely to be $7.799 million, up from $6.969 million in 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 There is literally no universe in which a 34 year old right guard is a better long term signing than a young, elite defensive end. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 No but the silver lining to the Sheldon Richardson meltdown is that we won't have to pay big bucks to lock him up in a couple years. The game checks do come off the cap. that same article in my reply above discusses Richardson's possible fifth year option: What could Richardson's fifth-year option figure be in 2017? Consider that the fifth-year option figure in 2016 for first-round defensive ends drafted outside the top 10 (as Richardson was, at No. 13) is likely to be $7.799 million, up from $6.969 million in 2015. Right. I was concerned they might be worried about exercising so they would not get stuck if he signed for and $8M figure if he were suspended. It really wouldn't have mattered because those extensions are guaranteed for injury only, so they can still cut him if they want and there is no bonus associated. That is why they did it for Coples who will probably be on the fringe of worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 How does the suspension money work? Does it get taken off the cap? His base salary is. Any pro rated bonus' remain against the cap I thought money was still paid by team but given to charity?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I thought money was still paid by team but given to charity?? Actually, looking at Jason's page I am more confused. Reserve/Suspended- This listing is for players who have been suspended by the NFL. Players on the suspended list are not paid for their time suspended, do not count against the active 53, and their salaries are reduced to reflect the weeks they are suspended. For example Justin Blackmon of the Jaguars will see his base salary drop from 17 games of pay to just 13 games of pay. Players can also have their signing bonuses reduced due to forfeiture provisions in the CBA. In the case of drug suspension this is mandatory. In other cases teams will determine if they will go after bonus money. I am unsure if this forfeiture is accrued during of after the season, but will try to clarify at a later date. While suspended the cap charges count in full. http://overthecap.com/explaining-roster-designations/ The fact that their salary drops made me think that it did not count against the cap, but the last line makes it seem like they do. Maybe drdetroit was correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doggin94it Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Actually, looking at Jason's page I am more confused. The fact that their salary drops made me think that it did not count against the cap, but the last line makes it seem like they do. Maybe drdetroit was correct. What that last line means is that the modified cap charge counts even while they're suspended. Take player x, salary and cap charge 16m (1m per game). Assume he's suspended 4 games. That drops his salary and cap charge to 12m, all of which counts against the cap all season long (including the 4 games he's suspended for) Make sense? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 I thought money was still paid by team but given to charity?? That's just money from fines I think.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 That's just money from fines I think.. Yeah I think i was confusing the two, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 What that last line means is that the modified cap charge counts even while they're suspended. Take player x, salary and cap charge 16m (1m per game). Assume he's suspended 4 games. That drops his salary and cap charge to 12m, all of which counts against the cap all season long (including the 4 games he's suspended for) Make sense? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk Ah. Perfect. So you saying that Wilkerson is going to get a 4 game suspension next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peekskill68 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 No but the silver lining to the Sheldon Richardson meltdown is that we won't have to pay big bucks to lock him up in a couple years. Disagree. If he turns things around (which I think he will) and plays at All-Pro level (which I think he can) people are going to be focused on the scandal of the day and not go retro. A-Rod = perfect example of how fast people can move on from scandal if results on the field are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted August 3, 2015 Share Posted August 3, 2015 Mangold and D-Brick along with Harris need to restructure Pace and Babin both gone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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