winston not passing eye test

[Villain The Foe]

Grass is always greener I guess.

 

[jgb]

Very good point which is why I've said that I believe a 3rd rounder would do it. The Bucs would probably try to push it given that the team attempting to trade will most likely be trying to trade for him to be a starter, but at the same time it doesnt help the Bucs case that they themselves refused to commit to him. 

Getting a 3rd rounder for a back up in order to break even and utilizing that draft pick for another area of need is something that I believe the Bucs would execute. For all of the Glennon talk, I just dont think there's been a team that has offered a 3rd rounder because I just dont believe that the Bucs would have refused that. 

Why?  A solid backup is easily worth a 3rd round pick to the team that has him.

[jgb]

 

Well not really an option to forfeit the season so if you don't have a franchise QB you got to roll with what you have. This tweet is idiotic because it implies choice.

[Klecko73isGod]

Why?  A solid backup is easily worth a 3rd round pick to the team that has him.

The team trading the player away can ask for whatever they want. The team or more accurately teams trading for the player set the market. 

How many teams would really be all that interested? If the Bucs have multiple teams interested his value will increase. If they only have one its really more about what that team is willing to give up. 

The fact that was benched twice absolutely will play a role in what someone offers the Bucs. 

If I'm a GM looking to trade for Glennon I start with a fifth. His contract is up after 2016 so he is a depreciating asset. The longer the Bucs wait the less valuable he becomes. If the Bucs don't move him they will get no value when he walks. The Bucs don't consider him a starter so the GM trading for him can use that as leverage as well. 

I would expect the Bucs to ask for a 2nd knowing they won't get it. I counter with a fifth. They come back with a third, I tell them I won't go higher than a fourth unless they throw in a late round pick as well. 

The best they get for him is a third while also giving back a sixth or seventh. 

[jgb]

The team trading the player away can ask for whatever they want. The team or more accurately teams trading for the player set the market. 

How many teams would really be all that interested? If the Bucs have multiple teams interested his value will increase. If they only have one its really more about what that team is willing to give up. 

The fact that was benched twice absolutely will play a role in what someone offers the Bucs. 

If I'm a GM looking to trade for Glennon I start with a fifth. His contract is up after 2016 so he is a depreciating asset. The longer the Bucs wait the less valuable he becomes. If the Bucs don't move him they will get no value when he walks. The Bucs don't consider him a starter so the GM trading for him can use that as leverage as well. 

I would expect the Bucs to ask for a 2nd knowing they won't get it. I counter with a fifth. They come back with a third, I tell them I won't go higher than a fourth unless they throw in a late round pick as well. 

The best they get for him is a third while also giving back a sixth or seventh. 

I'm saying if he is as solid as many think, no team is giving up a good insurance policy for a 3rd especially with an unknown rookie starting.

[Jet Nut]

Extremely raw. He's going to need a big year/make major improvements for him to be considered a first round pick. Don't see it happening especially with Franklin as his head coach.

he would be a top half of the draft, first round if it were held today.   Don't know how you think he wouldn't go in the first.  

Id take him for the Jets right now

[artemusclyde]

he would be a top half of the draft, first round if it were held today.   Don't know how you think he wouldn't go in the first.  

Id take him for the Jets right now

No he's not. Kid is widely inconsistent, got footwork problems and his arm is erratic, mock drafters love the kid cause he has the typical size and arm strength, but he needs to clean up a lot in his game. Especially considering how he fell off from his rookie year, no teams drafting him in the first if it were held today. Best projection I'd give him is the 2nd, based on size and talent I could see a team taking him on as a project, like the Pats did with Mallett. Btw, his stats this year were 12tds-15ints. He's got talent, but if he puts up another season like the one he just did, he could end up dropping like Hundley.

[Jet Nut]

No he's not. Kid is widely inconsistent, got footwork problems and his arm is erratic, mock drafters love the kid cause he has the typical size and arm strength, but he needs to clean up a lot in his game. Especially considering how he fell off from his rookie year, no teams drafting him in the first if it were held today. Best projection I'd give him is the 2nd, based on size and talent I could see a team taking him on as a project, like the Pats did with Mallett. Btw, his stats this year were 12tds-15ints. He's got talent, but if he puts up another season like the one he just did, he could end up dropping like Hundley.

2nd round? Lol, one mock draft, while crazy early has his going to the Skins with the third pick.  Overall 

they love him because he plays a pro offense.  Not saying he'll go there but he's a lot better prospect than 2nd round projection

[artemusclyde]

2nd round? Lol, one mock draft, while crazy early has his going to the Skins with the third pick.  Overall 

they love him because he plays a pro offense.  Not saying he'll go there but he's a lot better prospect than 2nd round projection

That's cause their banking on him making massive improvements, something I can't see happening. His footwork and accuracy need a lot of work. He's also not making good reads hence the picks and massive sack count. He's all potential right now, but unless he improves his game a lot, he's not going to be a first rounder. He does have first round talent though, big body and strong arm. But based on his body of work, can't rate him higher then a 2nd rounder. Guy has fluctuated from looking like the next Andrew Luck to looking undraftable. Widely inconsistent.

With that said though, EJ Manuel, Ponder, and Gabbert went in the first round so who knows. If a team get's desperate for a qb, they might see his potential and pick him. Playing with fire though with how inconsistent he is.

[Jet Nut]

That's cause their banking on him making massive improvements, something I can't see happening. His footwork and accuracy need a lot of work. He's also not making good reads hence the picks and massive sack count. He's all potential right now, but unless he improves his game a lot, he's not going to be a first rounder. He does have first round talent though, big body and strong arm. But based on his body of work, can't rate him higher then a 2nd rounder. Guy has fluctuated from looking like the next Andrew Luck to looking undraftable. Widely inconsistent.
With that said though, EJ Manuel, Ponder, and Gabbert went in the first round so who knows. If a team get's desperate for a qb, they might see his potential and pick him. Playing with fire though with how inconsistent he is.

Well no matter what the good news is there will be more than a handful of good prospects coming out.  One of which should be available for us to take given how few teams will be in the market for a QB.

[southparkcpa]

Well no matter what the good news is there will be more than a handful of good prospects coming out.  One of which should be available for us to take given how few teams will be in the market for a QB.

You guys do realize this is a complete circle jerk between both of you.  I went back at least 10 posts and cant figure out WHO you are talking about......  

[artemusclyde]

 

 

That's cause their banking on him making massive improvements, something I can't see happening. His footwork and accuracy need a lot of work. He's also not making good reads hence the picks and massive sack count. He's all potential right now, but unless he improves his game a lot, he's not going to be a first rounder. He does have first round talent though, big body and strong arm. But based on his body of work, can't rate him higher then a 2nd rounder. Guy has fluctuated from looking like the next Andrew Luck to looking undraftable. Widely inconsistent.

Well no matter what the good news is there will be more than a handful of good prospects coming out.  One of which should be available for us to take given how few teams will be in the market for a QB.

 

We'll see. Cook and Goff are the big names right now. Don't know if Goff will even come out though, or for that matter if Hackenberg will come out. Cardale Jones is a total wildcard, total boom or bust prospect who might not even end up winning the starting job at Ohio State. Cook doesn't really blow you away, he's solid but overall isn't much of an exciting prospect. He's a lot like Tannehill. IDK, not to hot on this class, doesn't feel/look as good as 2015 with Mariota and Winston. 

[Jet Nut]

You guys do realize this is a complete circle jerk between both of you.  I went back at least 10 posts and cant figure out WHO you are talking about......  

think this started before the board upgrade, lol. We were talking about Christian Hackenberg, the QB out of Penn State.  I like him think he'll be a top 10 pick, he doesn't.  There are a number of interesting 1st round QBs, as of today, that should make the draft interesting. 

are you in the circle?

[Jetman55]

think this started before the board upgrade, lol. We were talking about Christian Hackenberg, the QB out of Penn State.  I like him think he'll be a top 10 pick, he doesn't.  There are a number of interesting 1st round QBs, as of today, that should make the draft interesting. 

are you in the circle?

Hackenberg may go #1 overall...I would take him over Cook every day of the week.  Worst case, Hackenberg is Kerry Collins.  Cook just looks like the last 2 QBs from Michigan Stare, Hoyer and Cousins.  Doesn't have a rifle arm and guides the ball where it needs to go.  Hackenberg has a gun and can put the ball anywhere on the field.  Plus he's running the same offense currently in place with the Texans.  He plays in a pro style offense and would have gone ahead of Winston and Mariota this year, way further along in his development.

 

Hopefully Penn State's oline shows up this year.

[southparkcpa]

think this started before the board upgrade, lol. We were talking about Christian Hackenberg, the QB out of Penn State.  I like him think he'll be a top 10 pick, he doesn't.  There are a number of interesting 1st round QBs, as of today, that should make the draft interesting. 

are you in the circle?

I can be a jerk....  not sure about the circle though.

[jgb]

Hackenberg may go #1 overall...I would take him over Cook every day of the week.  Worst case, Hackenberg is Kerry Collins.  Cook just looks like the last 2 QBs from Michigan Stare, Hoyer and Cousins.  Doesn't have a rifle arm and guides the ball where it needs to go.  Hackenberg has a gun and can put the ball anywhere on the field.  Plus he's running the same offense currently in place with the Texans.  He plays in a pro style offense and would have gone ahead of Winston and Mariota this year, way further along in his development.

 

Hopefully Penn State's oline shows up this year.

It's a QB hungry league. Even flawed prospects at the position often go #1.

[Jet Nut]

You guys do realize this is a complete circle jerk between both of you.  I went back at least 10 posts and cant figure out WHO you are talking about......  

this is why I had to laugh when a poster said that Hackenberg wasn't going high, would be a 2nd round pick.  He looks like a NFL prospect to me, a high first round pick.  

 

 

[Jet Nut]

I can be a jerk....  not sure about the circle though.

I know all about being a jerk so..

[artemusclyde]

 

 

Hackenberg may go #1 overall...I would take him over Cook every day of the week.  Worst case, Hackenberg is Kerry Collins.  Cook just looks like the last 2 QBs from Michigan Stare, Hoyer and Cousins.  Doesn't have a rifle arm and guides the ball where it needs to go.  Hackenberg has a gun and can put the ball anywhere on the field.  Plus he's running the same offense currently in place with the Texans.  He plays in a pro style offense and would have gone ahead of Winston and Mariota this year, way further along in his development.

 

Hopefully Penn State's oline shows up this year.

First off, he's playing in a "college system" (Hackenberg's own words) with Franklin that dumbs down the qb position to take the pressure off of them by having them make very few reads. He played in a pro system his freshman year where he looked like a future #1 pick, last year he was way to inconsistent and had even regressed. His footwork is bad and his arm is erratic, he's not shown much progress in his reads and considering Franklin prefers his qbs to not make reads, doubt he makes much progress in this either. No way he goes above Mariota or Winston, Winston was the best prospect since Luck and Mariota was to athletic and productive to simply pass on. Cook and Goff are better qbs then him. Also, Goff plays on a terrible team to so this horrible team argument that's been going on to make up for Hackenberg sucking is frankly unimportant. I'm not drafting a qb in the first who's college career can be summarized as him getting the sh*t beaten out of him and has played very unremarkable. Also, not interested in a qb where his ardent supporters have to constantly explain why he wasn't very good last year, generally relying on things such as blaming the team. Already been down that road with Geno and Sanchez, last thing we need is a guy who sucked in college, things only get harder.

[Jet Nut]

• 
  Todd McShay, Scouts Inc.

If you saw some of our TV segments on Monday, you'll know that putting together the way-too-early mock draft for the following season is not my favorite assignment here at ESPN. (You also probably noticed Mel Kiper celebrating the fact that I have to do it.)

But I understand that there is great interest already from fans as to what college football players enter the 2015 season as the top prospects for next year's draft, so I've done my best here to match up many of those players with team fits that make sense.

A couple of important notes:

• I have not done full tape studies on any of these players yet. We will begin going through the 2016 class next week and produce preseason scouting evaluations that will run in August. I made picks here based on what I've been able to see from these players in person, on TV and on limited tape and also what I've heard from league sources.

• The draft order below was generated for us by Football Outsiders, using their early projected records for the 2015 season.

Here is our way-too-early NFL mock draft for 2016.

1. Washington Redskins (Football Outsiders' projected 2015 record: 5-11)

Christian Hackenberg, QB, Penn State: We don't yet know what the future holds for Robert Griffin III, but if the projected records here from Football Outsiders come true, it's safe to assume Washington might be looking for a new franchise quarterback. Hackenberg struggled in 2014 with a 12-touchdown, 15-interception season, but he's a big-time talent with a pro-style skill set.

@artemusclyde      

[Jet Nut]

*** 2016 NFL MOCK DRAFT (2 rounds) updated July 28. This NFL Mock Draft will be updated occasionally for important events. Check out old versions of this 2016 NFL Mock Draft in the  archived mock section. Follow @walterfootball for NFL Draft updates. *** 

• image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/brownsb_logo.gif

   Cleveland Browns: Cardale Jones, QB, Ohio State 

  image: http://walterfootball.com/college/OhioState_logo.gif

   
  The Browns failed to trade up for Marcus Mariota, so they'll have to find their quarterback of the future next spring; Chris Mortensen reported that Cleveland has "90 percent" given up on a quarterback who rolls $20s in bathrooms. Mike Pettine called the report "90-percent inaccurate," but he was 90-percent lying in order to maintain leverage for Mariota.  
  
  Cardale Jones would've been a second-round prospect had he declared for the 2015 NFL Draft, though there was a chance he would've gone late in the first via a team trading up. That will hardly be the case in the 2016 NFL Draft. If Jones starts and continues to thrive, he'll be a top-five selection, and he could potentially go No. 1 overall. He has way too much upside and natural talent, displaying Ben Roethlisberger- or Daunte Culpepper-type ability. 
  
  Follow @walterfootball for updates. 
   

• image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/raidersb_logo.gif

   Oakland Raiders: Joey Bosa, DE/DT, Ohio State 

  image: http://walterfootball.com/college/OhioState_logo.gif

   
  Joey Bosa dominated college football this past year and would've definitely been a top-five pick in the 2015 class had he been draft-eligible. He wasn't, so the Raiders would strongly consider him at No. 2 overall, as he could provide a big boost to their porous defense. Unlike Leonard Williams this year, Bosa will likely be viewed as the top consensus prospect in the draft. Oakland passed on Williams, but perhaps that won't be the case with Bosa. 
   

• image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/redskinsb_logo.gif

   Washington Redskins: Christian Hackenberg, QB, Penn State 

  image: http://walterfootball.com/college/PennState_logo.gif

   
  The Redskins are giving Robert Griffin one more chance, but if they're drafting this highly again, they'll almost certainly pull the plug on him and choose another quarterback - perhaps one who happens to be a better fit for Jay Gruden's offense (if Gruden is still around). 
  
  Christian Hackenberg had a rough sophomore campaign, but he has all the talent in the world. He was great in the bowl game, so perhaps that's a sign of things to come. If Hackenberg has a strong 2015 season, he'll be in top-five consideration. 
• Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2016.php#fmybIOoZ6GYM72lX.99

@artemuslyde  

 

 

NFL DRAFT GEEK

2016NFLMockDraft
	1) Cleveland Browns Christian Hackenberg - QB Penn State
	2) Chicago Bears Connor Cook - QB Michigan State
	3) Tampa Bay Buccaneers Ronnie Stanley - OT Notre Dame
	4) Tennessee Titans Joey Bosa - DE Ohio State
	5) San Francisco 49ers Vernon Hargreaves - CB Florida

[ljr]

What surprised me the most there is they think 5-11 will be the worst record in the league ?!?!?

[artemusclyde]

*** 2016 NFL MOCK DRAFT (2 rounds) updated July 28. This NFL Mock Draft will be updated occasionally for important events. Check out old versions of this 2016 NFL Mock Draft in the  archived mock section. Follow @walterfootball for NFL Draft updates. *** 

• image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/brownsb_logo.gif

   Cleveland Browns: Cardale Jones, QB, Ohio State 

  image: http://walterfootball.com/college/OhioState_logo.gif

   
  The Browns failed to trade up for Marcus Mariota, so they'll have to find their quarterback of the future next spring; Chris Mortensen reported that Cleveland has "90 percent" given up on a quarterback who rolls $20s in bathrooms. Mike Pettine called the report "90-percent inaccurate," but he was 90-percent lying in order to maintain leverage for Mariota.  
  
  Cardale Jones would've been a second-round prospect had he declared for the 2015 NFL Draft, though there was a chance he would've gone late in the first via a team trading up. That will hardly be the case in the 2016 NFL Draft. If Jones starts and continues to thrive, he'll be a top-five selection, and he could potentially go No. 1 overall. He has way too much upside and natural talent, displaying Ben Roethlisberger- or Daunte Culpepper-type ability. 
  
  Follow @walterfootball for updates. 
   

• image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/raidersb_logo.gif

   Oakland Raiders: Joey Bosa, DE/DT, Ohio State 

  image: http://walterfootball.com/college/OhioState_logo.gif

   
  Joey Bosa dominated college football this past year and would've definitely been a top-five pick in the 2015 class had he been draft-eligible. He wasn't, so the Raiders would strongly consider him at No. 2 overall, as he could provide a big boost to their porous defense. Unlike Leonard Williams this year, Bosa will likely be viewed as the top consensus prospect in the draft. Oakland passed on Williams, but perhaps that won't be the case with Bosa. 
   

• image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/redskinsb_logo.gif

   Washington Redskins: Christian Hackenberg, QB, Penn State 

  image: http://walterfootball.com/college/PennState_logo.gif

   
  The Redskins are giving Robert Griffin one more chance, but if they're drafting this highly again, they'll almost certainly pull the plug on him and choose another quarterback - perhaps one who happens to be a better fit for Jay Gruden's offense (if Gruden is still around). 
  
  Christian Hackenberg had a rough sophomore campaign, but he has all the talent in the world. He was great in the bowl game, so perhaps that's a sign of things to come. If Hackenberg has a strong 2015 season, he'll be in top-five consideration. 
• Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2016.php#fmybIOoZ6GYM72lX.99

@artemuslyde  

 

 

NFL DRAFT GEEK

2016NFLMockDraft
	1) Cleveland Browns Christian Hackenberg - QB Penn State
	2) Chicago Bears Connor Cook - QB Michigan State
	3) Tampa Bay Buccaneers Ronnie Stanley - OT Notre Dame
	4) Tennessee Titans Joey Bosa - DE Ohio State
	5) San Francisco 49ers Vernon Hargreaves - CB Florida

Both of those mock drafts are banking on Hackenberg massively improving. They both even note he struggled last year. It's way to premature to put either Hackenberg, or for that matter Jones in the first round of the nfl draft. Need a lot more game tape on Jones to even assign him a draft grade. 

[artemusclyde]

[NYs Stepchild]

We wonder why it's so difficult to hit on a QB in the draft. There are probably a bunch of potential HOF QBs that never got a chance to play who are driving for UPS.

One guy has Hack as the best prospect he's ever seen, and the other doesn't have a draftable grade on him.

Cardale just went from third string college QB to number 1 pick in one game.

This is why we need a developmental league. Colleges are just not doing a very good job of developing these kids. They really should care more. I mean isn't that what college is supposed to be about. Fact is that you can't afford to lose any games in college so they cannot think past this next game, much less next year. They must simplify the offense, and once they do they need the most physically gifted QB to run that simple offense. Intelligence is way down on the list of attributes in college nowadays.

 

[Jet Nut]

Tweets like this, about a year ago don't change the point that he could go very early early in the first and not in the second.  No big deal, just playing

[artemusclyde]

Tweets like this, about a year ago don't change the point that he could go very early early in the first and not in the second.  No big deal, just playing

He could, but right now he wouldn't go in the first. He's all potential right now, needs a whole lot of work to get to where he would be considered a first round pick. Not saying that he can't, but with Franklin as his HC, it's going to be tough.

[slats]

We wonder why it's so difficult to hit on a QB in the draft. There are probably a bunch of potential HOF QBs that never got a chance to play who are driving for UPS.

One guy has Hack as the best prospect he's ever seen, and the other doesn't have a draftable grade on him.

Cardale just went from third string college QB to number 1 pick in one game.

This is why we need a developmental league. Colleges are just not doing a very good job of developing these kids. They really should care more. I mean isn't that what college is supposed to be about. Fact is that you can't afford to lose any games in college so they cannot think past this next game, much less next year. They must simplify the offense, and once they do they need the most physically gifted QB to run that simple offense. Intelligence is way down on the list of attributes in college nowadays.

 

Interesting idea. You think a school could attract top prospects by promising to prepare kids for the pro game first, rather than focusing on winning?

[drdetroit]

Either draft a qb in round 1 or trade for Glennon next offseason.

[Powpow]

 

Ugh no, Bridgewater isn't anywhere in the same neighborhood of Marino.   To say this is says you aren't old enough to have seem Marino or smart enough to know what he accomplished in his career.

Well it seems after all ALL your posts suck.

[Jet Nut]

Well it seems after all ALL your posts suck.

then don't read them and be clueless enough to think that Marino and Bridgewater should be compared.  That would be about as rediculous a comparison as anyone could ever attempt.  

 

 

[artemusclyde]

Bumping this thread in honor of Hackenberg sucking dick tonight. Told you guys the kid needs work, and it ain't happening with Franklin coaching his ass.

[slats]

Bumping this thread in honor of Hackenberg sucking dick tonight. Told you guys the kid needs work, and it ain't happening with Franklin coaching his ass.

There's probably a better way to phrase this. 

[john461167]

Interesting idea. You think a school could attract top prospects by promising to prepare kids for the pro game first, rather than focusing on winning?

They could attract players, but not fans and, more importantly, donors.

[artemusclyde]

There's probably a better way to phrase this. 

Very few words to describe the ass whopping Hackenberg got. It was reminiscent of some hardcore porn video where the girl gets pile driven into the ground. No doubt Hackenberg is going to be feeling it tomorrow. Hope they at least gave him lube before they sent him out their.