AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 PFF player grades through the first three pre-season games. OFFENSE: Players with overall positive grades (best to worst): B. Marshall, Ivory, Colon, Ijalana, C. Brown, Maneri, B. Powell Players with overall negative grades ("best" to worst). W. Powell, Dozier, Winters, Shaq Evans, J. Brewer, D. Freeman, Decker, J. Harrison, Enunwa, D. Richardson, Brick, Cumberland, K. Davis, Qvale, Petty Positive Pass Block Ratings: C. Brown, Aboushi, Colon Negative Pass Block Ratings: Mangold, Stacy, Qvale, Carpenter Positive Run Block Ratings: Carpenter, Mangold, Ijalana Negative Run Block Ratings: Freeman, Aboushi, K. Davis, Decker, Brick, Breno, Winters, J. Harrison, J. Brewer, Cumberland DEFENSE: Overall positive grades: Rontez MIles, Leger, M. Williams, L. Williams, S. Bowen, J. Mays, Mo Wilk, D. Harrison, Sheldon, Jarrett, Deion Barnes Overall negative grades: Pace, McDougle, K. Lewis, Taiwan Jones, Dar Walls, Revis, E. Henderson, Arenas, Gilchrist, Da. Phillips, Demario Davis, Eskridge, Jordan Williams, Mauldin, Lattimore, Davon Walls Positive Run Defense Grades: Bowen, R. Miles, D. Barnes, L. Williams, Mo Wilk, Demario Davis Negative Run Defense Grades: Reilly, D. Simon, Eskridge, Dar Walls, Arenas, Erin Henderson, Lattimore, Jor Williams, Mauldin, Dav. Walls Positive Pass Coverage Grades: Rontez Miles, Joe Mays, Marcus Williams Negative Pass Coverage Grades: K. Lewis, Revis, Eskridge, Phillips, Lattimore, D. Davis, Positive Pass Rush Grades: Douzable, Sheldon, Reilly, Marcus Williams Negative Pass Rush Grades: Pace, Deion Barnes, Jordan Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I dont know what any of this means or that we should be concerned considering its preseason but what does it mean if you're not even on the list and you played plenty of snaps in the preseason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Guess they'll cut Revis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Not on the list means your grade is "average" which is where most players do tend to fall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Guess they'll cut Revis No choice really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 No choice really Coples was just average after that busted play? I would have expected him to grade negatively for coverage. And Petty graded out the worst? Interesting. At least Fitz was average. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Guess they'll cut Revis Season is over; the sky is falling and fire Idzik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Coples was just average after that busted play? I would have expected him to grade negatively for coverage. And Petty graded out the worst? Interesting. At least Fitz was average. haha Yeah, guys can have plenty of great or terrible plays and still grade out otherwise. They just grade one play at a time and total score is overall grade. A DB can get three INT's in a game and not "appear" to get beat all day but if All-22 shows him losing his man in coverage regularly but just not being targeted, he'll finish with a negative grade which will seem confusing. It sure as hell isn't gospel, but a nice little guide IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Season is over; the sky is falling and fire Idzik I think the Jets should hire Idzik on a life time worth of 1 year deals just so we have a yearly scapegoat to fire and fly signs over practice about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Yeah, guys can have plenty of great or terrible plays and still grade out otherwise. They just grade one play at a time and total score is overall grade. A DB can get three INT's in a game and not "appear" to get beat all day but if All-22 shows him losing his man in coverage regularly but just not being targeted, he'll finish with a negative grade which will seem confusing. It sure as hell isn't gospel, but a nice little guide IMO. It's all very confusing. I find it interesting but put very little stock into these types of exercises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Snaps are just far too limited in preseason to worry about this, but I suppose it's nice to see Colon in the positive for a change. I guess the competition and resulting "most brutal camp in years" had it's desired impact on Willie guaranteed-holding-in-the-red-zone Colon. That and I enjoy Marcus Williams getting some recognition. Oh and Mevis...slouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think the Jets should hire Idzik on a life time worth of 1 year deals just so we have a yearly scapegoat to fire and fly signs over practice about. I agree; for the older fans, it is like chanting 'joe must go'. Always thought they should hire a joe, just to take fall. Give the fans something to get behind. 'Herm must go' didn't sound nearly as nice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's all very confusing. I find it interesting but put very little stock into these types of exercises. I view it as a useful tool. I mentioned during the off-season that I watched a few of the new acquisitions, formed my own opinion and then checked PFF grades and found that when I thought a guy was terrible, his PFF grade was poor and same for when I thought a player performed well, grade was positive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 It's all very confusing. I find it interesting but put very little stock into these types of exercises. FTR, Coples scores a minus 0.9 which puts him .2 away from a below average grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Snaps are just far too limited in preseason to worry about this, but I suppose it's nice to see Colon in the positive for a change. I guess the competition and resulting "most brutal camp in years" had it's desired impact on Willie guaranteed-holding-in-the-red-zone Colon. That and I enjoy Marcus Williams getting some recognition. Oh and Mevis...slouch. Did Willie say it's been the most brutal camp in years? Marcus Williams can flat out play. Not sure why this is a question anymore. I agree; for the older fans, it is like chanting 'joe must go'. Always thought they should hire a joe, just to take fall. Give the fans something to get behind. 'Herm must go' didn't sound nearly as nice... Fire Idzik sounds like the song of an angel. I view it as a useful tool. I mentioned during the off-season that I watched a few of the new acquisitions, formed my own opinion and then checked PFF grades and found that when I thought a guy was terrible, his PFF grade was poor and same for when I thought a player performed well, grade was positive. Fair. I appreciate that you do this stuff because I'm too lazy to do it and I get to read your findings. So thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 Did Willie say it's been the most brutal camp in years? Marcus Williams can flat out play. Not sure why this is a question anymore. Fire Idzik sounds like the song of an angel. Fair. I appreciate that you do this stuff because I'm too lazy to do it and I get to read your findings. So thanks! No sweat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nj meadowlands Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 PFF is pretty brutal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadwayJoe12 Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Did Willie say it's been the most brutal camp in years? Marcus Williams can flat out play. Not sure why this is a question anymore. Not verbatim, but he explicitly said it was the most difficult camp for him in years; whether that's because of Bowles or the fact he took it upon himself to put in the work I'm not sure, but good to see regardless. And the kid can definitely ball, would like to see what he can do as the 4th or 5th CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peebag Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I agree; for the older fans, it is like chanting 'joe must go'. Always thought they should hire a joe, just to take fall. Give the fans something to get behind. 'Herm must go' didn't sound nearly as nice... 'Herm's a Worm!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bostonmajet Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 'Herm's a Worm!' Nice, but we chanted 'Joe must go' so much it became stuck in our heads; so much so we chanted it for the next 2 looser coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I think the Jets should hire Idzik on a life time worth of 1 year deals just so we have a yearly scapegoat to fire and fly signs over practice about. Sounds like a plan They could also, instead of giving out a game ball have the outstanding player smack Geno in the face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetster Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Guess they'll cut Revis I doubt anyone would even pick him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 we talkin' 'bout pre-season grades ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljr Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 Funny to Breno in there as a minus for run blocking ... Wasn't watching every play ... But Weren't we running Ivory & crew right up his back for all those big gains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted August 31, 2015 Author Share Posted August 31, 2015 I doubt anyone would even pick him up. Not with a negative pre-season PFF grade they wouldn't. He'd be kickin' it Dimitri Patterson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smashmouth Posted August 31, 2015 Share Posted August 31, 2015 I dont know what any of this means or that we should be concerned considering its preseason but what does it mean if you're not even on the list and you played plenty of snaps in the preseason? It means PFF is a ******* Joke that's what it means. Did they just over look how badly D-brick pass protected in preseason ? He is after all one our more high profile players on offense. Also how do they give Petty what amounts too a terrible rating ? Rontez the great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 It means PFF is a ******* Joke that's what it means. Did they just over look how badly D-brick pass protected in preseason ? He is after all one our more high profile players on offense. Also how do they give Petty what amounts too a terrible rating ? Rontez the great It confusing, especially on such a small sample size but they did have Brick on the overall negative grade and the run block negative grade. Petty grading out the worst is interesting...wonder what they saw that he didnt and we didnt as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 Deion Barnes? The Jets have a guy named Dee Barnes? That guy must get some exceptional smack talk thrown his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyLV Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I view it as a useful tool. I mentioned during the off-season that I watched a few of the new acquisitions, formed my own opinion and then checked PFF grades and found that when I thought a guy was terrible, his PFF grade was poor and same for when I thought a player performed well, grade was positive. I think PFF is close to useless maybe outside of OL, but even then the methodology is very very suspect. It has become quite common to quote PFF grades as if they are gospel on how a player is doing. Problem is that they do not know the scheme, not what the player was asked to do on a play, nor the quality of the player they are matched against. And that is huge. One or two big negatives in the PFF rating on a player that did the right thing can give him a big negative rating. It is too volatile. Way too often their "grades" disagree with what a coach is seeing and they are looking at every play as well but with the scheme and assignment in mind. Since they do everyone there is a normalization element to their ratings, but really they are not even useful until way into a season. And in my view utterly useless in preseason when veterans are mostly trying not to get hurt. Look at Enunwa. I can almost guarantee that the person watching his film has absolutely no idea what he us supposed to be doing on a play, especially since the HB role is very rare in NFL offenses. Petty's grade makes no sense from simple observation unless his first game was so hugely negative that even good games cant let him escape. Appreciate the posting and it is interesting from an intellectual curiosity standpoint, but I think PFF rankings are less useful than QB rating and QB rating is really pretty useless as it really does not measure what makes a QB succesful. Rant not directed at you, just a reaction to the ridiculous PFF hype I see and how they are used as accurate and meaningful assessments of players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 I think PFF is close to useless maybe outside of OL, but even then the methodology is very very suspect. It has become quite common to quote PFF grades as if they are gospel on how a player is doing. Problem is that they do not know the scheme, not what the player was asked to do on a play, nor the quality of the player they are matched against. And that is huge. One or two big negatives in the PFF rating on a player that did the right thing can give him a big negative rating. It is too volatile. Way too often their "grades" disagree with what a coach is seeing and they are looking at every play as well but with the scheme and assignment in mind. Since they do everyone there is a normalization element to their ratings, but really they are not even useful until way into a season. And in my view utterly useless in preseason when veterans are mostly trying not to get hurt. Look at Enunwa. I can almost guarantee that the person watching his film has absolutely no idea what he us supposed to be doing on a play, especially since the HB role is very rare in NFL offenses. Petty's grade makes no sense from simple observation unless his first game was so hugely negative that even good games cant let him escape. Appreciate the posting and it is interesting from an intellectual curiosity standpoint, but I think PFF rankings are less useful than QB rating and QB rating is really pretty useless as it really does not measure what makes a QB succesful. Rant not directed at you, just a reaction to the ridiculous PFF hype I see and how they are used as accurate and meaningful assessments of players. No offense taken, and I see where you're coming from which is why I always say it's a guide and not gospel. I think a key element to looking at PFF's numbers is giving the player the benefit of the doubt for doing the right thing. What I mean by that is, when I watch a game and single out one player, I simply look at what he did against the player he was matched up with or most closely to and I am assuming that the player was in the spot he was supposed to be in. Now, of course players will sometimes blow an assignment, but I believe that in the NFL, if that's happening too frequently, you're not going to be on the field anymore. For example, when I watched a lot of Gilchrist film this off-season I would look at where he was if he wasn't lined up man to man and see if it made sense for him to be where he was so as to not leave a part of the field uncovered. Now, I obviously have no idea if he was in the spot he was supposed to be in, but if you can look at his position as compared to his ten other teammates and see that all areas of the field have a defender present, I'd assume he was doing the right thing even if the play didn't come his way and his position had little impact. Again, it's not an exact science, but as I've said a million times before, there's not another site I know of that provides this type of breakdown, otherwise I'd use that. I also posted an article during the off-season (I believe it was from SI) in which some NFL head coaches and coordinators said that PFF is doing a good enough job that they will sometimes look at their numbers when evaluating players. Sadly, I think a lot of the PFF backlash (not necessarily yours) comes from the fact that fans have spent so much time proclaiming one thing or another about a player after seeing a youtube clip and a sportscenter highlight that it aggravates them when a site comes along and breaks down every single one of their plays and the findings are the opposite of what the youtube video and SC highlight showed...therefore, they must have no idea what they're looking at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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