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our last gm izadick sure had a plan


kmnj

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to be fair he was put in a crap position from the start...he came in when we had major cap issues (which he fixed) and was never given a chance to choose his own HC.

The thread was about his drafting ability.  he was a total failure....18 picks and what??? 2 decent players who can contribute when not suspended??? 

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on the QB issue.....  What could MAC have  done???  Don't remember any great FA deals being done. 

on the QB issue.....  What could MAC have  done???  Don't remember any great FA deals being done. 

He used a 7th and 4th round pick to add a JAG veteran and rookie respectively. He had many more resources available if he wanted to improve the position more than that. I don't have the answer for what he could have done... just presenting the fact that he didn't do "all he could".

 

he suffered more than an inability to execute.   Idzik was just plain bad at most of the requirements for an NFL GM.   He didn't share a vision with the HC, he was poor evaluator of both talent and character, he couldn't draft, and he mis-handled the most important position in football.  

all this plan and cap nonsense is just that, nonsense.   12 picks, why use 12 when you know they won't make roster?   trade up, trade for picks next year, do anything other than draft scrubs.   Idzik got too much credit for cap management when all of the moves were so obvious that just about any poster on this board could have made them.   cutting holmes and sanchez?   really, we are going to give him credit for that?   

ps.  this is about the longest this board has gone w/o an Idzik thread since he was first  hired.   

Dude... executing in his role IS "performing most of the requirements of an NFL GM".

I also feel quite strongly that anyone above the age of 12 caught using the term Izdick or any variation thereof should have his balls dragged through a mile of broken glass, and then have them subsequently dipped in vinegar. 

Izdik. There, now you can imagine my balls in whatever way pleases you most.

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He used a 7th and 4th round pick to add a JAG veteran and rookie respectively. He had many more resources available if he wanted to improve the position more than that. I don't have the answer for what he could have done... just presenting the fact that he didn't do "all he could".

have to respectfully disagree

IMO he determined the costs it would have taken to bring somebody else in were not worth it 

i personally would have liked mettenburger or the Tampa kid ... But not for a 1st round pick ... Hard pressed I may have done a 2nd ... But wouldn't have been happy with it ... There are no indications that TB or Tenn would have taken those deals ... And we'd probably have had to one-up the RG3 deal for this years draft QB's

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he suffered more than an inability to execute.   Idzik was just plain bad at most of the requirements for an NFL GM.   He didn't share a vision with the HC, he was poor evaluator of both talent and character, he couldn't draft, and he mis-handled the most important position in football.  

all this plan and cap nonsense is just that, nonsense.   12 picks, why use 12 when you know they won't make roster?   trade up, trade for picks next year, do anything other than draft scrubs.   Idzik got too much credit for cap management when all of the moves were so obvious that just about any poster on this board could have made them.   cutting holmes and sanchez?   really, we are going to give him credit for that?   

ps.  this is about the longest this board has gone w/o an Idzik thread since he was first  hired.   

Before him, we had a GM who gave monster contracts to both Sanchez and Holmes.  Maybe cutting them is something to be celebrated?  Or at least not "obvious?"

Overall, I agree with Beerfish and Integrity.  The problem with Idzik was execution, and it wasn't even in free agency.  I still don't take issue with his FA strategy, as it's not like these guys he passed on that people were demanding have been burning up the league.  The problem was that his drafts were abysmal.  The best player could be headed for prison, and outside of that player, we added nothing in 2 years.  Also, the QB position wasn't mishandled, it just didn't work out.  They drafted a guy they liked, they got him in the 2nd round without trading up, and they gave him two seasons.  It's not like any of these guys who people wished were available actually were.  Unfortunate as that may be.

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Its funny that idzik is still a main topic even though he is gone. Instead of moving on and focusing on the new regime and season fans still seem obsessed with idzik. Especially when one of his draft picks makes the news it opens up a pandaras box for the idzik chatter. My point is cant we just forget about the guy. He sucked but its time to move on

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have to respectfully disagree

IMO he determined the costs it would have taken to bring somebody else in were not worth it 

i personally would have liked mettenburger or the Tampa kid ... But not for a 1st round pick ... Hard pressed I may have done a 2nd ... But wouldn't have been happy with it ... There are no indications that TB or Tenn would have taken those deals ... And we'd probably have had to one-up the RG3 deal for this years draft QB's

This proves my point. 

By not paying the cost, or as I already said "using resources" to improve the QB position beyond Ryan Fitzmagic and Petty, there was in-fact more he could have done. He chose not to... and that's fine. Make no mistake, I'm not arguing he should have done anything stupid. I'm happy with the fact that he chose not to over-spend, but he could have, and that would have been doing more than he did to improve the QB position, hence the team. 

Making the dopey claim in the original post patently false. 

 

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Before him, we had a GM who gave monster contracts to both Sanchez and Holmes.  Maybe cutting them is something to be celebrated?  Or at least not "obvious?"

Overall, I agree with Beerfish and Integrity.  The problem with Idzik was execution, and it wasn't even in free agency.  I still don't take issue with his FA strategy, as it's not like these guys he passed on that people were demanding have been burning up the league.  The problem was that his drafts were abysmal.  The best player could be headed for prison, and outside of that player, we added nothing in 2 years.  Also, the QB position wasn't mishandled, it just didn't work out.  They drafted a guy they liked, they got him in the 2nd round without trading up, and they gave him two seasons.  It's not like any of these guys who people wished were available actually were.  Unfortunate as that may be.

We totally disagree on this.  

Year 1, Idzik did well.   he was saddled with Sanchez guaranteed contract, he traded Revis for a 1st+, and drafted Geno to compete in the 2nd rd which was pretty good value.   

After an overachieving 8-8 season Idzik built a ton of good will and credibility with both the fan base and ownership.   so what does he do?   he goes and gets himself fired.   

The big mistakes were year 2 off-season.  Rather than drafting a QB to compete he doubled down on Geno by handing him the starting job.   He passed on Bridgewater, Carr, Garrapolo, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Metternberger.    He completely ignored the CB position in FA and was then forced to reach for McDougal and sign Dimitri Patterson - even knowing that Rex coveted press-man cover corners.      He then used 12 draft picks - refused to make a single move - and pretty much drafted hot garbage.   Just about any poster on this board could have done a better job drafting than Idzik.   

Idzik's downfall was his stubborn streak.  He determined "value" ahead of time and was unable to adapt to changing market conditions.   It's how just about every FA came to visit and he couldn't close the deal.  It's also how you end up using all 12 picks in a draft when making trades is time-boxed.   

 

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Its funny that idzik is still a main topic even though he is gone. Instead of moving on and focusing on the new regime and season fans still seem obsessed with idzik. Especially when one of his draft picks makes the news it opens up a pandaras box for the idzik chatter. My point is cant we just forget about the guy. He sucked but its time to move on

Yeah it's crazy after all these years people just can't let go. We've been through almost 0 games without him already.

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This proves my point. 

By not paying the cost, or as I already said "using resources" to improve the QB position beyond Ryan Fitzmagic and Petty, there was in-fact more he could have done. He chose not to... and that's fine. Make no mistake, I'm not arguing he should have done anything stupid. I'm happy with the fact that he chose not to over-spend, but he could have, and that would have been doing more than he did to improve the QB position, hence the team. 

Making the dopey claim in the original post patently false. 

 

guess we're just seeing different sides of semantics

The first post & your response to that 

 

 

Also, Mac didn't do "all he could" to improve the team, otherwise we'd be much better off at QB

 

 

were talking about improving the "TEAM" not just improving the "QB" position.

i read "improving the team" as Mac being smart enough to not pay a crazy pricetag for possibly a better QB"

you read the OP's intent to be what possible steps could have been taken to improve specifically the QB spot whether these steps were in the NY Jets best interest or not.

all good!

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We'll stop being obsessed when his horrendous drafts stop hurting the team.  So 8-10 years from now.

That's basically it.  Jalen Saunders was considered another bad pick, now it looks like he might have an NFL career after all.  Idzik's gone because his drafts were disaster, so when one of them might possibly make it somewhere else it's news.

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Actually .. I was just thinking about that fool this afternoon as we continue to confirm, one pick by one, the abomination he made of every draft he was involved with.

Those thoughts had me considering starting a thread proclaiming him to be the dog ball licking mother f_cker he is. 

As the voids his genius left a couple parts of this squad will likely glare a few times this season - not likely I'll be forgetting Johnny Boy Idzik real soon.  

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guess we're just seeing different sides of semantics

The first post & your response to that 

 

 

were talking about improving the "TEAM" not just improving the "QB" position.

i read "improving the team" as Mac being smart enough to not pay a crazy pricetag for possibly a better QB"

you read the OP's intent to be what possible steps could have been taken to improve specifically the QB spot whether these steps were in the NY Jets best interest or not.

all good!

No, it's not semantics. It's logic.

Saying Mac did "all he could" to improve the team is a false premise. I've already explained why. I used the QB position as example, but it extends to the whole team. 

If the original poster had said "Mac did a reasonable and responsible job of improving the team" then he'd be correct, to the points you've tried to make.

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We totally disagree on this.  

Year 1, Idzik did well.   he was saddled with Sanchez guaranteed contract, he traded Revis for a 1st+, and drafted Geno to compete in the 2nd rd which was pretty good value.   

After an overachieving 8-8 season Idzik built a ton of good will and credibility with both the fan base and ownership.   so what does he do?   he goes and gets himself fired.   

The big mistakes were year 2 off-season.  Rather than drafting a QB to compete he doubled down on Geno by handing him the starting job.   He passed on Bridgewater, Carr, Garrapolo, Savage, Murray, McCarron, Metternberger.    He completely ignored the CB position in FA and was then forced to reach for McDougal and sign Dimitri Patterson - even knowing that Rex coveted press-man cover corners.      He then used 12 draft picks - refused to make a single move - and pretty much drafted hot garbage.   Just about any poster on this board could have done a better job drafting than Idzik.   

Idzik's downfall was his stubborn streak.  He determined "value" ahead of time and was unable to adapt to changing market conditions.   It's how just about every FA came to visit and he couldn't close the deal.  It's also how you end up using all 12 picks in a draft when making trades is time-boxed.   

 

It seems we disagree in part because in my view, you're overvaluing what he did in Year 1.  Our 8-8 was the result of a favorable schedule, especially down the stretch.  Many on this board came into Year 2 thinking that the team could be significantly better, and still maintain the same record.  Fact is, that draft was awful, and we know it already.  Sheldon Richardson's season plus Geno and Milliner's strong finish made it look better than it was.  But, only a year later, all three are a problem.

I don't agree about drafting a QB, and you conveniently left out the #1 guy that everyone wanted, Johnny Manziel.  But this also speaks to the fact that "just about every poster on this board could have done a better job drafting," as we'd have Johnny Football.  That said, I agree, the drafts were the problem, which I said from the beginning.  We have 0 to show for 2 seasons worth of picks.  But, the problem wasn't not drafting a QB, Geno was getting a 2nd year to improve, after he should not have even been started in Year 1.  The problem was that every single draft pick sucked, and didn't make the team better at all.  We've needed a safety for a decade, the decision to take one was solid, the issue is that we took Pryor, who's awful.  We also needed a TE desperately, the problem was that we again took an awful one.  We didn't need two young QBs with questionable resumes.

As for CB, all reports were that he went after Vontae Davis.  Davis returned to his original team, which happens.  After that, there wasn't anyone worth spending big money on, DRC's season last year should bear that out.  Idzik's downfall wasn't his stubborn streak, and really, reports only indicate that we made a strong push for Davis and he got away.  Maybe we didn't want some of these guys so badly?  His downfall is that he drafted as poorly as could be, which you can call stubbornness, but I prefer the simpler explanation, that he was exceptionally bad at it.

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he suffered more than an inability to execute.   Idzik was just plain bad at most of the requirements for an NFL GM.   He didn't share a vision with the HC, he was poor evaluator of both talent and character, he couldn't draft, and he mis-handled the most important position in football.  

all this plan and cap nonsense is just that, nonsense.   12 picks, why use 12 when you know they won't make roster?   trade up, trade for picks next year, do anything other than draft scrubs.   Idzik got too much credit for cap management when all of the moves were so obvious that just about any poster on this board could have made them.   cutting holmes and sanchez?   really, we are going to give him credit for that?   

ps.  this is about the longest this board has gone w/o an Idzik thread since he was first  hired.   

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We shoulda just kept tanenbaum for 1 more year with Rex but instead Woody had to make tanenbaum the fall guy for the Tim Tebow debacle.

The Revis Band-Aid contract, and the Sanchez extension were far worse than Tebow, IMO.  The NFL is all about marketing, and bringing Tebow in was a success on that front.

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Having a war over the barren terrain of that is John Idzik's accomplishments(and are there any?)  is a waste of bandwidth. Might be fair to consider there was a lot of dead wood, but anyone can pare  roster back if you are willing to suck for a season or 2. The trick is drafting and building. The owner screwed up not canning Ryan with Tannenbaum. Richy Rich with his love for Rex Ryan precluded numerous quality GM candidates at that time. 

And appears so far he has remedied that mistake. 

Could be wrong, but so far (before a real game is played!) Bowles and MacCagnan look like serious professional football  guys. Move forward. 

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