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Geno Smith (2014) Vs Ryan Fitzpatrick (2015)


win4ever

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QB Rating:

Geno:  77.5

Fitz:  78.4 

QBR:

Geno:  44.4

Fitz:  45

INT%:

Geno:  3.5%

Fitz:  4.3%

Yards Per Attempt: 

Geno:  6.9

Fitz:  6.1

TD %

Geno:  3.5

Fitz:  5.2

These are the stats from Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick.  They are all but identical (yet Geno Smith gets vilified for being a horrible QB last year) but Ryan Fitzpatrick is the way to go this year?  Fitzpatrick has a better system (easier reads) with better weapons as well (along with his vast knowledge and experience) yet he isn't doing a whole lot much to distinguish himself from Geno.  He has a higher TD%  but also a higher INT% as well.  

 

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Finally, a unique thread on the topic.

I understand it's redundant, but I didn't want to put it in the Is Geno Good at Passing Deep thread, because it's hard to quantify deep passing without taking into context the people trying to catch the deep passes.  Figured, it's a better subject to just look at stats, and understand why people vilify one guy for a horrible season, but not the other who is having a similar season.  

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I understand it's redundant, but I didn't want to put it in the Is Geno Good at Passing Deep thread, because it's hard to quantify deep passing without taking into context the people trying to catch the deep passes.  Figured, it's a better subject to just look at stats, and understand why people vilify one guy for a horrible season, but not the other who is having a similar season.  

I guess the most important stat is one we can't compare fairly and that is wins and losses.  So far Fitz, with a much improved team is 2 -1.  Lets see if he can get us to 3-1. 

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I guess the most important stat is one we can't compare fairly and that is wins and losses.  So far Fitz, with a much improved team is 2 -1.  Lets see if he can get us to 3-1. 

I think that's the issue and the biggest reason they haven't made the move back when Geno became healthy.  But I feel like that's something that the Jets made a mistake on with Sanchez, where they relied on the wins as a measuring stick and it came back to bite us after the real reasons for those wins (the defense) came back down to Earth.  Even this year, I think it's safe to assume the first two wins, the biggest contributor was the defense and all the turnovers they got. 

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I think that's the issue and the biggest reason they haven't made the move back when Geno became healthy.  But I feel like that's something that the Jets made a mistake on with Sanchez, where they relied on the wins as a measuring stick and it came back to bite us after the real reasons for those wins (the defense) came back down to Earth.  Even this year, I think it's safe to assume the first two wins, the biggest contributor was the defense and all the turnovers they got. 

Well actually biggest reason is he really just started practicing again and really isn't or wasn't ready.  The best time to possibly make a move will be either directly after the bye week or the following the game immediately after the bye.  That will give about 3 weeks of additional preparation.   If Fitz is still struggling and we are 2-2, 2-3 or God forbid 2-4, I can see a switch being made. 

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So we're taking the sample size of an entire season by one QB who was unquestionably the starter through TC in 2014 and played through getting benched and being a handoff machine and comparing that to a guy who became the starter by default midway through TC after a leg injury and has played three games. Makes sense.

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I understand it's redundant, but I didn't want to put it in the Is Geno Good at Passing Deep thread, because it's hard to quantify deep passing without taking into context the people trying to catch the deep passes.  Figured, it's a better subject to just look at stats, and understand why people vilify one guy for a horrible season, but not the other who is having a similar season.  

Similar season?

Why don't you post the stats on how many game losing turnovers Geno had vs. Fitz, because as of right now, you could argue that only 1-2 of Fitz's turnovers have been costly, and potentially none of them is the reason we lost 1 game so far... while Geno single handedly gave games away on the regular the past 2 years.

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So we're taking the sample size of an entire season by one QB who was unquestionably the starter through TC in 2014 and played through getting benched and being a handoff machine and comparing that to a guy who became the starter by default midway through TC after a leg injury and has played three games. Makes sense.

and just had his worst game as a Jet

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Similar season?

Why don't you post the stats on how many game losing turnovers Geno had vs. Fitz, because as of right now, you could argue that only 1-2 of Fitz's turnovers have been costly, and potentially none of them is the reason we lost 1 game so far... while Geno single handedly gave games away on the regular the past 2 years.

Career wise it's not even close..  Fitzmagic has given away more games with bad Int's than anchors Klacko has sold.

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Career wise it's not even close..  Fitzmagic has given away more games with bad Int's than anchors Klacko has sold.

The other guy said "similar season". So he's comparing Fitz's first 3 games with us right now, to Geno's prior 2 seasons with us.

That is the context I'm responding to. 

People seem to have forgotten that Geno was suck ******* bad, and caused so many losses, that Jet fans were wishing we had Sanchez back. Think on that.

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QB Rating:

Geno:  77.5

Fitz:  78.4 

QBR:

Geno:  44.4

Fitz:  45

INT%:

Geno:  3.5%

Fitz:  4.3%

Yards Per Attempt: 

Geno:  6.9

Fitz:  6.1

TD %

Geno:  3.5

Fitz:  5.2

These are the stats from Geno Smith and Ryan Fitzpatrick.  They are all but identical (yet Geno Smith gets vilified for being a horrible QB last year) but Ryan Fitzpatrick is the way to go this year?  Fitzpatrick has a better system (easier reads) with better weapons as well (along with his vast knowledge and experience) yet he isn't doing a whole lot much to distinguish himself from Geno.  He has a higher TD%  but also a higher INT% as well.  

 

Yikes!

Not exactly murderers row there, is it?

 

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The other guy said "similar season". So he's comparing Fitz's first 3 games with us right now, to Geno's prior 2 seasons with us.

That is the context I'm responding to. 

People seem to have forgotten that Geno was suck ******* bad, and caused so many losses, that Jet fans were wishing we had Sanchez back. Think on that.

Compare Geno's last 4 games with the Jets with a healthy Decker, and no B Marshall, he went 2-2 with a 1 point loss to the reigning SB champs, completed 65% of his passes for 1001 yards, 6 TD's to just 1 turnover including fumbles.  So yeah I'd love to see what he might do in a more QB friendly system with the likes of a healthy B Marshall, E Decker, and D Smith after the Bye week.  I think Fitz should start in London, and regardless of the outcome spend the next 2 weeks preparing Geno, and the offense for Geno to be the starting QB coming out of the bye, Fitz was brought in to be the backup, Geno should be healthy, have enough time to get the extra reps needed after injury, and most importantly hopefully had enough time to sit, and learn some from sitting on the bench, and come out a much better QB like he did last season. 

It's time to find out once, and for all if the Jets have to start from scratch at QB in 2016, and we all know Fitz isn't the answer beyond 2015, and some of us know he isn't the answer for 2015 either, I don't like Geno, but I still think there is a chance he proves me, and most of us wrong about being hot garbage, but can't find out unless he gets his shot, and I'd love to be wrong about the guy.

Your right this is getting old, but so is watching Fitz play QB.

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The other guy said "similar season". So he's comparing Fitz's first 3 games with us right now, to Geno's prior 2 seasons with us.

That is the context I'm responding to. 

People seem to have forgotten that Geno was suck ******* bad, and caused so many losses, that Jet fans were wishing we had Sanchez back. Think on that.

Ok, so the issue here is the stats for Smith are over a larger sample size, and Fitzpatrick is penalized for a shorter sample size more at risk for volatility?

I took the first 734 passes of Fitz's career, and Geno's career so far (808 passes).  Lets see how things break down:

Geno:  5571 yards (6.9 Y/A)

Fitz:  4104 yards (5.5)

Geno:  25 TDs (TD every 32.2 passes)

Fitz:  21 TDs (TD every 34.9 passes)

Geno:  57.5% Completion percentage

Fitz:  57.7% Completion percentage

Geno:  34 INT (INT every 23.7 passes)

Fitz:  27 INT (INT every 27.1 passes

If you want clutch stats (as defined by profootball reference for 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives);

Fitz:  3 in 734 passes

Geno:  7 in 808 passes

Fitz:  17 Fumbles

Geno:  16 fumbles

Now, if you want something subjective as back breaking INTs, I'm sure both QBs have made their share of mistakes.  I provided you statistical evidence that they are extremely similar in many ways.  

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Yikes!

Not exactly murderers row there, is it?

 

They are both bad, I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take this team to the Superbowl.  However, I just don't understand the hatred for Geno Smith when Fitzpatrick has proven to be similarly bad except when in the system that is run by Gailey now.  His stats improved with Gailey, but their career numbers up until that point were similar.  And now through 3 games this season, Fitz's stats are very similar to what Geno put up last year without Gailey's system.  So why is there is such backlash to the theory that Geno Smith might actually be an improvement over Fitzpatrick?  

I would completely understand if Fitzpatrick was lighting it up, but the main argument for him seems to be that the team is winning, as if the accomplishments of the defense is a direct root cause of Fitzpatrick.  It's the same issue we faced with Sanchez, where people could see he was a bad QB, but a winning record, and everyone turned a blind eye to it, and atleast in that sense the guy in question was young, and there was hope for improvement.  I really doubt, Ryan Fitzpatrick at an age when players start to decline heavily is going to turn on the jets.  

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Dear God.... Make it stop!!!!!!

Ryan Fitzpatrick is the quarterback. The Jets are 2-1 with him at the helm. If he continues his subpar play from last week and the Jets keep losing, Geno will be the quarterback. 

This is such a tiresome argument. Chad vs. Whomever was the flavor of the month... Sanchez vs. Tebow... Geno vs. Simms... 

Leave it alone!!! Bowles will handle it!

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They are both bad, I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take this team to the Superbowl.  However, I just don't understand the hatred for Geno Smith when Fitzpatrick has proven to be similarly bad except when in the system that is run by Gailey now.  His stats improved with Gailey, but their career numbers up until that point were similar.  And now through 3 games this season, Fitz's stats are very similar to what Geno put up last year without Gailey's system.  So why is there is such backlash to the theory that Geno Smith might actually be an improvement over Fitzpatrick?  

I would completely understand if Fitzpatrick was lighting it up, but the main argument for him seems to be that the team is winning, as if the accomplishments of the defense is a direct root cause of Fitzpatrick.  It's the same issue we faced with Sanchez, where people could see he was a bad QB, but a winning record, and everyone turned a blind eye to it, and atleast in that sense the guy in question was young, and there was hope for improvement.  I really doubt, Ryan Fitzpatrick at an age when players start to decline heavily is going to turn on the jets.  

Because the last thing I want is Geno Smith having a 59% completion rating, and having a 16-20 td int rating and having our team invest in his future (which would be good stats for Geno). Geno is not the future, neither is Fitz, but the team is willing to move on fast from Fitz, compare that to Geno who Gailey was jizzing all over his arm strength early on in the season. Geno isn't a franchise qb, people need to get that through their head. 

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Well actually biggest reason is he really just started practicing again and really isn't or wasn't ready.  The best time to possibly make a move will be either directly after the bye week or the following the game immediately after the bye.  That will give about 3 weeks of additional preparation.   If Fitz is still struggling and we are 2-2, 2-3 or God forbid 2-4, I can see a switch being made. 

I doubt if Bowles lets it go as far a 2-4. Not only is that a 4 game losing streak but its a 4 game losing streak with this defense. The worst I can see that going is 2-3. If Fitz is anywhere below .500 Bowles is pulling the trigger.

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Because the last thing I want is Geno Smith having a 59% completion rating, and having a 16-20 td int rating and having our team invest in his future (which would be good stats for Geno). Geno is not the future, neither is Fitz, but the team is willing to move on fast from Fitz, compare that to Geno who Gailey was jizzing all over his arm strength early on in the season. Geno isn't a franchise qb, people need to get that through their head. 

So wait, what is the argument here?  You are happy with Fitzpatrick being mediocre so the team looks elsewhere for a franchise QB?  But you think Geno being mediocre will prevent the front office from searching for a franchise QB?  Geno still has another year left on his contract, so if he doesn't actually perform this year, there is no need to rework his deal.  However, this also hints at the bigger picture that the front office will be blinded by what is clearly mediocre performance as you point out and invest in Geno.  If the front office buys into a performance as you describe, then why would you trust them to find a franchise QB anyway?  By believing in a QB that both you and I can see are mediocre (if he puts up the stats you reference in Gailey's system) and they pay up for him, then they are idiots in the first place and we're not going anywhere anytime soon.  

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Ok, so the issue here is the stats for Smith are over a larger sample size, and Fitzpatrick is penalized for a shorter sample size more at risk for volatility?

I took the first 734 passes of Fitz's career, and Geno's career so far (808 passes).  Lets see how things break down:

Geno:  5571 yards (6.9 Y/A)

Fitz:  4104 yards (5.5)

Geno:  25 TDs (TD every 32.2 passes)

Fitz:  21 TDs (TD every 34.9 passes)

Geno:  57.5% Completion percentage

Fitz:  57.7% Completion percentage

Geno:  34 INT (INT every 23.7 passes)

Fitz:  27 INT (INT every 27.1 passes

If you want clutch stats (as defined by profootball reference for 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives);

Fitz:  3 in 734 passes

Geno:  7 in 808 passes

Fitz:  17 Fumbles

Geno:  16 fumbles

Now, if you want something subjective as back breaking INTs, I'm sure both QBs have made their share of mistakes.  I provided you statistical evidence that they are extremely similar in many ways.  

I'm sorry, I don't have the energy... you said Fitz was having the same type of season (my interpretation was right now, for the Jets) as what Geno had the past 2 years. Now you are rewinding, or resetting context to be their first XYZ amount of passes thrown? 

This is retarded.

We lost a ******* football game. Get over it. We have two sh*tty QBs to pick from, I like the one with the beard because when he drops bad to pass I feel in my stomach like he's going to complete a pass. Geno, Sanchez, Penny, and many other Jet QBs gave me a sick feeling in my stomach on every drop back because I expected the worst.

You can do whatever you want with subsets of stats and an ever-changing basis for your argument... I'm happy to go with my gut.

My gut says the guy with the beard is going to make this a better football season. Not perfect, but better.

I like better.

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Dear God.... Make it stop!!!!!!

Ryan Fitzpatrick is the quarterback. The Jets are 2-1 with him at the helm. If he continues his subpar play from last week and the Jets keep losing, Geno will be the quarterback. 

This is such a tiresome argument. Chad vs. Whomever was the flavor of the month... Sanchez vs. Tebow... Geno vs. Simms... 

Leave it alone!!! Bowles will handle it!

Jet fas aren't happy unless they are demanding that the worst QB on the roster is really the best.

We've seen this before... 

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They are both bad, I'm not saying Geno is going to step in and take this team to the Superbowl.  However, I just don't understand the hatred for Geno Smith when Fitzpatrick has proven to be similarly bad except when in the system that is run by Gailey now.  His stats improved with Gailey, but their career numbers up until that point were similar.  And now through 3 games this season, Fitz's stats are very similar to what Geno put up last year without Gailey's system.  So why is there is such backlash to the theory that Geno Smith might actually be an improvement over Fitzpatrick?  

I would completely understand if Fitzpatrick was lighting it up, but the main argument for him seems to be that the team is winning, as if the accomplishments of the defense is a direct root cause of Fitzpatrick.  It's the same issue we faced with Sanchez, where people could see he was a bad QB, but a winning record, and everyone turned a blind eye to it, and atleast in that sense the guy in question was young, and there was hope for improvement.  I really doubt, Ryan Fitzpatrick at an age when players start to decline heavily is going to turn on the jets.  

I realized that Geno-haters are not about hating his play, it is about hating Geno the person.

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Similar season?

Why don't you post the stats on how many game losing turnovers Geno had vs. Fitz, because as of right now, you could argue that only 1-2 of Fitz's turnovers have been costly, and potentially none of them is the reason we lost 1 game so far... while Geno single handedly gave games away on the regular the past 2 years.

Wait, what? Do you really think Fitz lead this team to victories in the previous 2 games? I mean, the 10 turnovers and a total of 51 points scored. Thats pretty poor but our D held its own from the opponents from coming back. The one game the D only managed one turnover and gave up 17 points, Fitz didn't stand a chance. And I haven't even started talking about the supporting cast yet. The one game Fitz didn't have a #2 WR....Geno didn't even have a #1 WR the entire season until the last few games and we all know how he performed in those games, the ones you wanted the Jets to lose out so we could pick Leonard Williams as the 3rd overall instead of Leonard Williams as the 6th overall.

Fitz was erratic in all 3 games. I don't care if he can complete a pass at the LoS and fabricate a high completion percentage.

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My gut says the guy with the beard is going to make this a better football season. Not perfect, but better.

I like better.

You might be right, though so far, the offense hasn't been particularly pleasant to watch.  

It's amusing to me that, as Jets fan, what we debate is "Would Geno suck more or less than a mediocre Fitz?"

Woot woot.

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Neither is very good.

go with the QB who has the respect of his teammates 

Watching Inside the NFL now...Marshall kind of insinuating Fitz has the locker room from that standpoint. I dont think Geno quite gets what's involved with being a pro. I don't know if its a too cool for school attitude, but that's probably it. 

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I realized that Geno-haters are not about hating his play, it is about hating Geno the person.

unfortunately it is both for many of us

his play has been shown to be the worst in the league the last 2 years

football is the biggest team sport there is, the quarterback should be the leader of that team ... Geno the person has been the worst leader in the league the last 2 years as well

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