Jump to content

Fitz got an insanely high QBR of 91.4 against Miami


Jetsbb

Recommended Posts

The idea that you can kill Fitz for "playing poorly" while the team wins while praising Sanchez as "part of the reason we went to back to back AFCCGs" is ridiculous.

I am not killing Fitz, I am discussing him realistically as I discuss Mark realistically but fans want to be wowed by stats w/o context.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 276
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Except that without Brady the Pats went 11-5 and without Manning the Colts went 2-14... Maybe that's why Brady has won more rings? You're continuing to ignore the team concept...

Yep.  Colts are a sh*tty organization.  Patriots are a cheating organization.  Flacco and Dilfer have won Super Bowls.  Crazy sh*t happens in the NFL. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Except that without Brady the Pats went 11-5 and without Manning the Colts went 2-14... Maybe that's why Brady has won more rings? You're continuing to ignore the team concept...

The Colts were in their Suck for Luck phase they knew Manning was gone not so with Brady in 2008..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The Colts were in their Suck for Luck phase they knew Manning was gone not so with Brady in 2008..

So the difference between a team QB'd by Matt Cassel and a team QB'd by Curtis Painter is a 9-win gap?  Not buying it.  The Colts didn't exactly bench all their good players or go the fire-sale method.  They're just a terrible, sh*tty organization who happened to have the # 1 pick when Elway, Peyton and Luck came out of school (and only managed to win one Super Bowl despite drafting each of those guys).  Hell, they might be tanking right now WITH Andrew Luck at QB. 

Saying they actively tried to lose during that final Manning season is an insult to well-run organizations.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

except that NE was 16-0 the year before and then went 11-5- a HUGE difference against a softer sched.  when Manning was hurt Indy TANKED for the #1 pick. a year later w/ less talent around the QB they won double digit games and were back in the playoffs.

Brady has more b/c he doesn't melt under big game pressure on a consistent basis.

Right, they were 16-0 the year before -- because Brady has played on many loaded, championship caliber teams. Teams that were capable of going 16-0 with him and still being 11-5 with a scrub like Matt Cassel at QB.

Peyton meanwhile, probably would have gone 16-0 if he'd cared about it in 2009 and two years later when he went down they were the worst team in the league, completely hopeless without him. I don't know why you're talking about tanking -- they started 0-8 and actually improved in the second half.

I don't have a problem with people saying Brady is the better QB (even though I'm not sure I agree) but it's so dumb to say rings are the reason why. 3 out of Brady's 4 rings came when he was on a defense first team, dinking and dunking to guys like Troy Brown and Antwoine Smith while the elite defense dominated and carried them to titles. 

Once they shifted to an offense first team they starting getting upset early in the playoffs just like Peyton -- last year being the exception because they had Revis (*sob*)

Peyton is finally on a team with an elite defense that is better than his offense for the first time this year -- it would be funny if he finally won his second ring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am not killing Fitz, I am discussing him realistically as I discuss Mark realistically but fans want to be wowed by stats w/o context.

I mean, I'm sorry but trying to use "context" to pretend that Mark Sanchez wasn't a bad QB is silly. At his best he was what Fitz is now -- serviceable. 

Let me put it this way -- if Fitz leads the team to an 11-5 record and a playoff run (ala Sanchez's best season) will you change your tune on him? Even if, just like Sanchez, he has a high 70s passer rating?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the difference between a team QB'd by Matt Cassel and a team QB'd by Curtis Painter is a 9-win gap?  Not buying it.  The Colts didn't exactly bench all their good players or go the fire-sale method.  They're just a terrible, sh*tty organization who happened to have the # 1 pick when Elway, Peyton and Luck came out of school (and only managed to win one Super Bowl despite drafting each of those guys).  Hell, they might be tanking right now WITH Andrew Luck at QB. 

Saying they actively tried to lose during that final Manning season is an insult to well-run organizations.

 

Matt Cassel took the 4-12 Chiefs to 10-6 when has Painter done that??

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right, they were 16-0 the year before -- because Brady has played on many loaded, championship caliber teams. Teams that were capable of going 16-0 with him and still being 11-5 with a scrub like Matt Cassel at QB.

Peyton meanwhile, probably would have gone 16-0 if he'd cared about it in 2009 and two years later when he went down they were the worst team in the league, completely hopeless without him. I don't know why you're talking about tanking -- they started 0-8 and actually improved in the second half.

I don't have a problem with people saying Brady is the better QB (even though I'm not sure I agree) but it's so dumb to say rings are the reason why. 3 out of Brady's 4 rings came when he was on a defense first team, dinking and dunking to guys like Troy Brown and Antwoine Smith while the elite defense dominated and carried them to titles. 

Once they shifted to an offense first team they starting getting upset early in the playoffs just like Peyton -- last year being the exception because they had Revis (*sob*)

Peyton is finally on a team with an elite defense that is better than his offense for the first time this year -- it would be funny if he finally won his second ring.

so with the same talent and a QB who would help KC win 11 games and a div title 2 years later why didn't they make the playoffs in 2008 against a weaker sched?

 

here's the difference btw Peyton and Brady.  SB XLII Brady has a rough game but trailing by 3 late leads 80 yd TD drive to give his D a late 4 pt lead.  2 years later in the SB Manning is having a rough game, trails by 7 and driving for game typing TD- he throws a pick 6 to end the game.

 

Those "defense first" SB teams:

 

SB XXVI vs. rams: become first D to EVER blow a 14 pt 4th qtr lead as they went from 17-3 up to 17-17.  Luckily they left Brady enough time to get in FG range to rescue them

SB XXXVIII vs. Panthers: D allows 19 4th qtr pts and AGAIN blows a double digit 4th qtr lead.  Luckily Brady had enough time to lead them to FG

the difference in NE being 4-2 in SBs instead of 6-0 was that in the 2 losses Brady didn't have enough time to overcome the "defense first" D blowing late leads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I mean, I'm sorry but trying to use "context" to pretend that Mark Sanchez wasn't a bad QB is silly. At his best he was what Fitz is now -- serviceable. 

Let me put it this way -- if Fitz leads the team to an 11-5 record and a playoff run (ala Sanchez's best season) will you change your tune on him? Even if, just like Sanchez, he has a high 70s passer rating?

he was a top 10ish QB in 2010, we won 11 games w/ him, went back to the title game.  had 5 4th qtr comebacks including one in WC game. 

 

Yes, if Fitz does that I will say he is as good as Mark.

I don't look at ratings, I look at what the players are actually doing when it matters most.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9-7 may not be a success unless there is a deep playoff run.  Fitz historically gets worse later in seasons which I assume is b/c his weak arm gets worse w/ more throws and colder weather.  I am enjoying 3-1 but I want more.  I don't want to bench him, I want him to play better.

Deep playoff run? We won 4 games last year. Rookie coach, rookie GM. 5 more wins would be huge for any team. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How do you know the guy behind him is worse?  Wasn't he the starter going into camp?  I think most fans are happy with 3-1, and since this is a forum where we get to express our opinions, why don't you GFY and allow others to discuss what we choose?  See how rude that was? Like telling other folks to STFU.  

I don't want to get into the 'I know more than you' thing. But Geno is not better than Fitz because my eyeballs tell.me so. Go outside of this Jets bubble and the consensus is the same. Fitz is Meh, Geno is downright awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to get into the 'I know more than you' thing. But Geno is not better than Fitz because my eyeballs tell.me so. Go outside of this Jets bubble and the consensus is the same. Fitz is Meh, Geno is downright awful.

Geno is young and still developing, fitz is what he is.  No one would tell you Geno cannot get better and wouldn't be better w/ this OC and all this talent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He "took" them there? You realize Matt Cassel was the starting QB for the Chiefs when they went 4-12 right? That he started 15 games for them, had a 69.9 passer rating and and abysmal 5.9 yards per attempt?

He had a 2006 Chad like 16 tds and 16 picks in 2009 ..2010 he had 27 tds and 7 picks when has Painter done that?? BTW in that 2-14 season Painter only started 8 games the other QB's were Olavsky and Kerry Collins..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't want to get into the 'I know more than you' thing. But Geno is not better than Fitz because my eyeballs tell.me so. Go outside of this Jets bubble and the consensus is the same. Fitz is Meh, Geno is downright awful.

Well Bowles and Gailey planned on Smith being the starter but I guess your eyeballs are better than theirs.  No, you had your mind made up, and they had the good sense to let things play out in camp.  You know, the 3rd year player with bigger upside was going to get 1st team reps and Fitz was the vet back up.  Fitz may have wound up beating Geno out, but all the evidence pointed to him being the starter.  You can ignore that fact all you want; doesn't change the point that it is a fact. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He had a 2006 Chad like 16 tds and 16 picks in 2009 ..2010 he had 27 tds and 7 picks when has Painter done that?? BTW in that 2-14 season Painter only started 8 games the other QB's were Olavsky and Kerry Collins..

I'm just pointing out your logic is based on incorrect information. He didn't "take" them anywhere. He just stunk one season and had a career year the next. Your post implied he showed up to a garbage team and made them good.

And yes, nobody argued that Cassell wasn't better than the "Finger" Painter -- just that it's clear Brady has had a stronger supporting cast than Manning the majority of their seasons and in particular their undefeated teams went in drastically different directions without them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm just pointing out your logic is based on incorrect information. He didn't "take" them anywhere. He just stunk one season and had a career year the next. Your post implied he showed up to a garbage team and made them good.

And yes, nobody argued that Cassell wasn't better than the "Finger" Painter -- just that it's clear Brady has had a stronger supporting cast than Manning the majority of their seasons and in particular their undefeated teams went in drastically different directions without them.

the point is a team can win w/ cassell.  people like to pretend the great Belichick could only win games w/ him.  BB MISSED the playoffs a year after they went undefeated against a much tougher schedule.  BB's record w/o Brady is awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well Bowles and Gailey planned on Smith being the starter but I guess your eyeballs are better than theirs.  No, you had your mind made up, and they had the good sense to let things play out in camp.  You know, the 3rd year player with bigger upside was going to get 1st team reps and Fitz was the vet back up.  Fitz may have wound up beating Geno out, but all the evidence pointed to him being the starter.  You can ignore that fact all you want; doesn't change the point that it is a fact. 

Fitz was injured at the time. That might have had something to do with it, idk.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the point is a team can win w/ cassell.  people like to pretend the great Belichick could only win games w/ him.  BB MISSED the playoffs a year after they went undefeated against a much tougher schedule.  BB's record w/o Brady is awful.

Yes, I'm sure it's a coincidence that Cassell's best season came when he was at the helm of a loaded undefeated team with Bill Belichick as his HC, Randy Moss and Wes Welker as his receivers, and a great defense led by multiple future Hall of Famers.

Shocking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I'm sure it's a coincidence that Cassell's best season came when he was at the helm of a loaded undefeated team with Bill Belichick as his HC, Randy Moss and Wes Welker as his receivers, and a great defense led by multiple future Hall of Famers.

Shocking.

his best season came in KC

that loaded undefeated team lost 5 times w/ cassell despite a much weaker schedule.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love how fitz operates at the line of scrimmage.  he uses his cadence to get rushers to tip their hand.  he gets the jets out of bad plays.  He is a good scrambler, he has a knack for getting down at the right time, but I would like to see him slide more.  He gets rid of the ball quickly.  He avoided a killer sack that would have put the jets out of field goal range last week.  He has solid veteran savvy

But man oh man he gets locked in on marshall too much.  He will chuck it up to him in double coverage or just ignore everybody else. To be fair tho, smith is lost, enunwa sucks, the jets don't have a TE, Owusu is hurt and kerley is a jag.  So its marshall or Decker or punt pretty much

The long ball issue sucks, but rodgers and brady do ok with the dink and dunk game.  The jets just don't have a check down option worth sh*t.  

So on balance, it is a huge upgrade to Geno who never uses his cadence, holds the ball too long and always makes the killer mistake.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well Bowles and Gailey planned on Smith being the starter but I guess your eyeballs are better than theirs.  No, you had your mind made up, and they had the good sense to let things play out in camp.  You know, the 3rd year player with bigger upside was going to get 1st team reps and Fitz was the vet back up.  Fitz may have wound up beating Geno out, but all the evidence pointed to him being the starter.  You can ignore that fact all you want; doesn't change the point that it is a fact. 

Or they figured Fitz could ace the test without studying but Geno needed remedial tutoring

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone that debates the 11th best qb being on our team just go pick another team. 

 

People are so enamored with having a young qb with "potential" or already having a stud qb.  I think it's awesome we have a journeyman. I just watched my SF Giants win the WS with Aubrey huff. Edgar rentaria. Cody Ross. And Juan uribe acting as the stars. Misfits can win too. Doesn't have to be the up and coming youngster. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone that debates the 11th best qb being on our team just go pick another team. 

 

People are so enamored with having a young qb with "potential" or already having a stud qb.  I think it's awesome we have a journeyman. I just watched my SF Giants win the WS with Aubrey huff. Edgar rentaria. Cody Ross. And Juan uribe acting as the stars. Misfits can win too. Doesn't have to be the up and coming youngster. 

who is the 11th best QB?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't hate Geno. I hate losing. 

We acquired Fitz from a team that only had Hoyer and Mallett as alternatives, for a 7th round pick. I don't think we have to establish that he's a "bad QB".

I saw your posts in the game thread, and you were boorish and killing my buzz... I know what the guy is, I don't need someone telling me every 10 seconds. Not when things are going alright. You weren't the only one. What I see is the Jets plugging in a bad QB and getting good results. I'm a results-driven guy. I don't care if we win ugly, as long as we win. We don't have a top 10 QB. I don't expect Fitz to cash-in on every opportunity like a top 10 QB, therefore I don't need to experience us winning a game, with constant reminders that Fitz isn't a top 10 QB. It's a given. 

People who incessantly point out the givens, in the dynamics of the work I do, are the people that slow down and drag down the project team.

I'm not going to spend every ******* Sunday fretting over the non-interceptions that could have happened but didn't. If/when Fitz starts dumping games, then I'll worry. As of right now, we've been pretty damn good. I think we got out-coached in the first half vs. the Eagles, which is concerning, but I liked how we fought back in the 2nd half. I think with more reps together, situations like that end better for us too. Gotta remember the first quarter of the season is usually sloppy... I'm hopeful that what we've seen of Fitz with this supporting cast is the floor.

I don't "hate" Fitzpatrick or anyone. I want to win and see serious QB flaws that will be W/L problems when we're not playing pushovers (and as it turns out, can be such an issue even when we are). There is nothing wrong with commenting on it. 

Knowing that it was killing your buzz for me (or anyone) to negatively comment on a few bad plays as they occurred during a game thread, it's doubtful I'll lose any sleep over it. I can offer you hugs as a consolation prize.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Geno is young and still developing, fitz is what he is.  No one would tell you Geno cannot get better and wouldn't be better w/ this OC and all this talent.

It's going to take a while and a few three or four interception games before this fan base sees the light. Maybe Fritz gets knock out of action, again, and then we get to see what a strong arm and fast legs can do with the talent on this team. It's my hope, and I could be wrong and I will be the first to admit it, that Geno forces fans to rethink there opinion of him.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't "hate" Fitzpatrick or anyone. I want to win and see serious QB flaws that will be W/L problems when we're not playing pushovers (and as it turns out, can be such an issue even when we are). There is nothing wrong with commenting on it. 

Knowing that it was killing your buzz for me (or anyone) to negatively comment on a few bad plays as they occurred during a game thread, it's doubtful I'll lose any sleep over it. I can offer you hugs as a consolation prize.

keep in mind you're talking to a guy who grew a beard so he could look more like Fitzpatrick 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't "hate" Fitzpatrick or anyone. I want to win and see serious QB flaws that will be W/L problems when we're not playing pushovers (and as it turns out, can be such an issue even when we are). There is nothing wrong with commenting on it. 

Knowing that it was killing your buzz for me (or anyone) to negatively comment on a few bad plays as they occurred during a game thread, it's doubtful I'll lose any sleep over it. I can offer you hugs as a consolation prize.

I didn't say you hated him. In your response to me, you blabbered about how people "hate Geno" and I wanted to clarify that your blabbering didn't apply to me.

My consolation prize has been watching you rationalize your Dorothy Zbornak nature for 4 days.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...