This year's defense vs. Ryan's defense

[bostonmajet]

They are very similar systems.  Both are primarily 1-gap, attacking fronts with a lot of man-to-man on the back end.  Both play more 3-4 than 4-3 but go hybrid a lot.  Both blitz, a lot.  It's why Bowles was the perfect hire, because he already had the perfect front 7 to execute his scheme.  Maccagnan fixed the back-end and now the entire defense is perfect for the system.

I'm not gonna sit here and bash Rex's D, because overall he's still a great defensive coach and in 2009/2010 got to the AFCCG with Mark Sanchez.  The 2010 divisional playoff win at New England was the single greatest defensive game plan I've ever seen

However, one thing cannot be denied:  Rex's D always had a tendency to give up the big score before halftime and the end of the 4th quarter  Bowles, on the other hand, has not let this happen yet.  The D has been solid before halftime and end of the game.

I also think Bowles is a little more creative in the secondary.  Whereas Rex played mostly man-to-man, Bowles can also mix in the hybrid "matchup zone" which makes QBs think its a zone blitz until the ball comes out and DBs match up with a receiver man-to-man.  This really fools QBs.

 

Great post

[bostonmajet]

Bowles will do WHATEVER IT TAKES! He's much more creative than Rex in the sense he'll go 3 safeties depending on the opponent. But the biggest difference is the coaching (teaching). Rex has been fortunate to have been the DC on one of the most talented defenses in the HISTORY of the sport the Baltimore Ravens! Then he goes to the Jets who have Revis, Cromartie, Shaun Ellis & Harris in their prime & Tanny brings in Bart Scott & a bunch of bit players for him.

Now he's in Buffalo, a team that has an excellent Dline. Rex has been very fortunate. The years when he was asked to incorporate younger players into his scheme it was a huge failure. Honestly I don't remember a team that surrendered more 3rd &  longs & I've been watching football a long time. I think Bowles could "build a defense" given time, I think Rex has always been GIVEN a defense to work with, that's a big difference. 

I agree that Rex has not shown the ability to 'teach up' many youngsters, but he seemed very well suited for getting veterans to play hard for him.  Cromartie wasn't on the team when he got there, however.  I think we grabbed him in the offseason after we beat San Dieago in the post season.

Here is also another observation; I think under Ryan (and staff) they were never able to get Cro. to jam at the line; he seems to be doing that better now (or it looks that way from the few shots we see of him on the line).

Pryor also looks better, but it is hard to tell how much is it the he is playing in a more natural position, how much is because he has a year of experience, and how much is due to the new coaches.

[AFJF]

Bowles will do WHATEVER IT TAKES! He's much more creative than Rex in the sense he'll go 3 safeties depending on the opponent. But the biggest difference is the coaching (teaching). Rex has been fortunate to have been the DC on one of the most talented defenses in the HISTORY of the sport the Baltimore Ravens! Then he goes to the Jets who have Revis, Cromartie, Shaun Ellis & Harris in their prime & Tanny brings in Bart Scott & a bunch of bit players for him.

Now he's in Buffalo, a team that has an excellent Dline. Rex has been very fortunate. The years when he was asked to incorporate younger players into his scheme it was a huge failure. Honestly I don't remember a team that surrendered more 3rd &  longs & I've been watching football a long time. I think Bowles could "build a defense" given time, I think Rex has always been GIVEN a defense to work with, that's a big difference. 

Cromarite wasn't a Jet in 2009 when they had the #1 D in the NFL, it was Donald Strickland, Lito Sheppard and Drew Coleman opposite Revis.  Can't make it to all three, so I'm trying to decide which enshrinement into Canton I'm going to attend.

Shaun Ellis played 13 NFL seasons and was in his prime in seasons 11 and 12. Interesting.

[Jet Nut]

I agree that Rex has not shown the ability to 'teach up' many youngsters, but he seemed very well suited for getting veterans to play hard for him.  Cromartie wasn't on the team when he got there, however.  I think we grabbed him in the offseason after we beat San Dieago in the post season.

Here is also another observation; I think under Ryan (and staff) they were never able to get Cro. to jam at the line; he seems to be doing that better now (or it looks that way from the few shots we see of him on the line).

Pryor also looks better, but it is hard to tell how much is it the he is playing in a more natural position, how much is because he has a year of experience, and how much is due to the new coaches.

Rex didn't coach up Mo, Sheldon, Snacks, Etc? No one on Baltimore?  

[dbatesman]

Rex is an assclown, but to claim that his defenses were only good against the run is a total crock of sh*t. That 2009 squad was one of the best pass defenses in NFL history.

[greenwichjetfan]

The Jets defenses were good, often in the top 5 under Ryan, but a closer look at the numbers shows a different story.  The Jets are currently ranked 3rd, but look where the yards are.  They are 2 in passing and and 12th against the run.  In the past, we would dominate against the run, but be in the 20s against the pass.  Rex was strong against the run, but would give up the big play; had trouble getting off the field.  He would blitz in the early downs and play soft on 3rd and in the 4th quarter.

Bowles, however, gets more aggressive as the game and downs go on.  In the 4th quarter he doesn't soften up.  Again, not dissing Ryan as I liked him when he was here, but this defense can be a truly dominant defense.  It still has a way to go, but I love the new philosophy.  Play the run, but in this league you have to stop the pass.  

I was never a fan of the defensive rankings being about yards.  A more telling ranking, IMO is points/game and takeaways.  Currently the Jets are ranked #1 in both.  More importantly, the Jets are averaging 13.8 points to game; #2 is at 17.2; that 3.4 difference may not seem big, but that difference also separates the #2 team from the #11 team.  In short that number is amazing.  We also have the same number of takeaways in 4 games that we had all year.  I think this goes to show the difference in philosophy.  When we have a close game, or a lead, we get even more aggressive on defense.  As the other offense is pressured to score, we get tough and step up.

The season is still young.  I hope this trend continues, but it is nice to have a lead in the 4th quarter and be confident that you can hold the lead.

I get the whole "Bash Rex" thing going on on JN- he, along with the players and GM all sucked major dick for us the past couple of years...so I cringe as I try to break up the Rex bash circle jerk, but...Bro, seriously? Like 5 seconds of google search. That's all it takes.

Rex's first year (2009): Points allowed: 1st. Total yards allowed: 1st. Pass defense: 1st. Rush defense: 8th. Blitz rate: 52.4%. Opponent strength of schedule: 1.6
Bowles' first year (4 games): Points allowed: 1st. Total yards allowed: 3rd. Pass defense: 2nd. Rush defense: 12th. Blitz rate: 70.4%. Opponent strength of schedule: -2.4.

Against significantly better strength of schedule (value that however you want) and a larger data size to date in '09, we were the creme of the crop in pass defense, points allowed, and yards allowed- and Rex's aggressive blitz schemes were the reason for it. Yes, under Bowles, we've clearly blitz a higher percentage, and I give Bowles complete credit for sticking with what works. I loved seeing Skrine blitz three times in a row resulting in three bat downs against the dolphins. However, let's not act like Rex's blitz schemes didn't completely change the NFL for those first two years. Rex blitzed on basically every single third down- sometimes to our detriment. His blitz percentage is lower than Bowles simply because we weren't playing the with the lead as much as we have these first four games, so opponents weren't dropping back as much on first and second downs, thereby eliminating the chance to blitz. 

We were the truly dominant defense that you speak of- and not just that year, but over a two year stretch going through 2010. So while I genuinely love what Bowles and Mac have done and are continuing to do 4 games into their career, let's not rewrite history just to get a good noogie on Rex. At some point, we've got to get over this whole ex-gf thing we've got going on with Rex and let the facts smack us in the face. We just have to. It's good for the soul.

(http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2009&seasonType=&Submit=Go)
(http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2015&seasonType=&Submit=Go)
(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2009.htm)
(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2015.htm)

 

 

[greenwichjetfan]

Rex is an assclown, but to claim that his defenses were only good against the run is a total crock of sh*t. That 2009 squad was one of the best pass defenses in NFL history.

That '09 secondary: Revis, Lito, Strickland, Coleman, Leonhard, Kerry Rhodes, and Cro who played for the Chargers and us at the same time.

Explains the Shonn Green playoff TD I guess. 

[FidelioJet]

Rex is an assclown, but to claim that his defenses were only good against the run is a total crock of sh*t. That 2009 squad was one of the best pass defenses in NFL history.

Have to agree....Rex is a buffoon.  But his defenses were often dominant.  Yes, they had their troubles but it's tough to argue with their defensive performance.

I think Buffalo is going to be much better than most think this year...They are stacked on defense and have playmakers on offense.  Rex will find a way to keep that team in the running.

Does anyone here think the Jets are going to blow out the Bills?  I would say most would be happy with a split...what does that really say about Rex vs. Bowles?

[#27TheDominator]

There, their they're. The dominating dominator dominates. 

[The Crusher]

OUR number one run defender, Crush, OUR. It's called Engrish ... put the chicken wings down.

Never!!!

[jetsons]

All I know is Rex took a defense ranked #16 overall in '08 & made it #1 in '09... I don't dislike Rex, I just think his time was done here, I wish him well in Buffalo EXCEPT when playing against the JETS of course  

[detectivekimble]

Bowles and Rex are the two best defensive coaches in the NFL.

Herm and Mangini's (aka Belicheat's) defensive schemes were awful.  

[SweetLee83]

It'll be interesting to compare at the end of the season. We have faced Brady, and Eli (obv the common of Luck, Tannehill) thus far, the two of them have quite a few rings and are off to great starts. 

I think it's difficult to compare at this point, but we'll see. 

[Jetsfan80]

It'll be interesting to compare at the end of the season. We have faced Brady, and Eli (obv the common of Luck, Tannehill) thus far, the two of them have quite a few rings and are off to great starts. 

I think it's difficult to compare at this point, but we'll see. 

Coughlin and Eli both OWN Rex, and is another sad aspect of Rex's inabilities to win games that are important to him.  For years it was all about owning NY.  He's been banished to the Siberian corner of the state of New York, and still can't beat the Giants.

And you're seriously going to excuse the Patriots game?  That's Rex's Super Bowl.  It's what he was brought in for, to beat New England (despite his 4-10 record against Belichick).  Had the game at least been close maybe there'd be some kind of morale victory there.  But he gave up a franchise record for yards, with the same unit that was top 5 in overall defense last year.  That's pathetic!

 

[slats]

It'll be interesting to compare at the end of the season. We have faced Brady, and Eli (obv the common of Luck, Tannehill) thus far, the two of them have quite a few rings and are off to great starts. 

I think it's difficult to compare at this point, but we'll see. 

The topic is about Rex's Jet defenses vs. the way Bowles is running it this year, not a Jets vs. Bills thing. 

Havent really seen you around much since the Bills hired the Jets former coach while the Jets passed on hiring the Bills former coach. How are you feeling about Rex so far? 

[Savage69]

Coughlin and Eli both OWN Rex, and is another sad aspect of Rex's inabilities to win games that are important to him.  For years it was all about owning NY.  He's been banished to the Siberian corner of the state of New York, and still can't beat the Giants.

And you're seriously going to excuse the Patriots game?  That's Rex's Super Bowl.  It's what he was brought in for, to beat New England (despite his 4-10 record against Belichick).  Had the game at least been close maybe there'd be some kind of morale victory there.  But he gave up a franchise record for yards, with the same unit that was top 5 in overall defense last year.  That's pathetic!

 

Judging by the bowl wins it's fair to say Coughlin and Eli OWN BB as well..

[Jetsfan80]

Judging by the bowl wins it's fair to say Coughlin and Eli OWN BB as well..

True.  Eli and Coughlin are a pretty average duo in the regular season.  But in the postseason or against top-flight competition, there might be no better duo out there.

[UntouchableCrew]

As long as they continue to actually keep score, pts. allowed is the only defensive stat that matters.

Not when evaluating the defensive unit. 

What if the offense throws a pick six? A kick returner takes one to the house? What if the opposing offense always has great field position and doesn't need to do as much to score points?

Obviously points are the end game but as far as evaluating the defensive unit there are lots of other stats that matter and can give different indications of quality play.

[Savage69]

Not when evaluating the defensive unit. 

What if the offense throws a pick six? A kick returner takes one to the house? What if the opposing offense always has great field position and doesn't need to do as much to score points?

Obviously points are the end game but as far as evaluating the defensive unit there are lots of other stats that matter and can give different indications of quality play.

Especially if the D is on a team that their O goes 3 and out and keeps them on the field most of the game..

[jgb]

True.  Eli and Coughlin are a pretty average duo in the regular season.  But in the postseason or against top-flight competition, there might be no better duo out there.

They were the only things standing between having to watch Tom Brady pull a Mercury Morris for the next 40 years showing up for an interview whenever the last undefeated team lost each year. God bless Coughlin and Eli for that.

[The Crusher]

OUR number one run defender, Crush, OUR. It's called Engrish ... put the chicken wings down.

from my cold dead hands

[Smashmouth]

Rex is a great defensive mind, we know this.. 

I don't know this. Rex's defenses were inconsistent could not get off the field on third down and in his best 2 years 09 and 10 they could not rush the passer. Rex's only truly great defense was with the Ravens who just so happened to be loaded with HOF players.

[Charlie Brown]

I get the whole "Bash Rex" thing going on on JN- he, along with the players and GM all sucked major dick for us the past couple of years...so I cringe as I try to break up the Rex bash circle jerk, but...Bro, seriously? Like 5 seconds of google search. That's all it takes.

Rex's first year (2009): Points allowed: 1st. Total yards allowed: 1st. Pass defense: 1st. Rush defense: 8th. Blitz rate: 52.4%. Opponent strength of schedule: 1.6
Bowles' first year (4 games): Points allowed: 1st. Total yards allowed: 3rd. Pass defense: 2nd. Rush defense: 12th. Blitz rate: 70.4%. Opponent strength of schedule: -2.4.

Against significantly better strength of schedule (value that however you want) and a larger data size to date in '09, we were the creme of the crop in pass defense, points allowed, and yards allowed- and Rex's aggressive blitz schemes were the reason for it. Yes, under Bowles, we've clearly blitz a higher percentage, and I give Bowles complete credit for sticking with what works. I loved seeing Skrine blitz three times in a row resulting in three bat downs against the dolphins. However, let's not act like Rex's blitz schemes didn't completely change the NFL for those first two years. Rex blitzed on basically every single third down- sometimes to our detriment. His blitz percentage is lower than Bowles simply because we weren't playing the with the lead as much as we have these first four games, so opponents weren't dropping back as much on first and second downs, thereby eliminating the chance to blitz. 

We were the truly dominant defense that you speak of- and not just that year, but over a two year stretch going through 2010. So while I genuinely love what Bowles and Mac have done and are continuing to do 4 games into their career, let's not rewrite history just to get a good noogie on Rex. At some point, we've got to get over this whole ex-gf thing we've got going on with Rex and let the facts smack us in the face. We just have to. It's good for the soul.

(http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2009&seasonType=&Submit=Go)
(http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2015&seasonType=&Submit=Go)
(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2009.htm)
(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2015.htm)

 

 

Thank you!! Thank You!!! Thank You!!

While I think that is was time for Rex to leave and that he had significant flaws as a HC but there is no question that Rex had a magnificent defense his first two years.  I saw Klecko and Co perform, the aka Sack Exchange and Rex's dee was as effective as that group and that is saying something.

Why argue otherwise it simply makes no sense... 

[RoadFan]

The difference is turnovers.  Bowles' defense is  forcing lots.  Rex's teams set record lows.

[BurnleyJet]

The difference is turnovers.  Bowles' defense is  forcing lots.  Rex's teams set record lows.

I often wonder if the turnovers are luck, or it's because of the scheme played by the team.

I'm sure some of it is luck, but playing with a lead, and having an Offence the other team actuality have to worry about are big factors.

Rex's lack of concern with the O was he's undoing, watching the 2015 Jets with an O that complements the D, is a revaluation, seeing #15 play, I'm thinking Wow, so that's what a real wide receiver looks like.

 

[Dunnie]

I get the whole "Bash Rex" thing going on on JN- he, along with the players and GM all sucked major dick for us the past couple of years...so I cringe as I try to break up the Rex bash circle jerk, but...Bro, seriously? Like 5 seconds of google search. That's all it takes.

Rex's first year (2009): Points allowed: 1st. Total yards allowed: 1st. Pass defense: 1st. Rush defense: 8th. Blitz rate: 52.4%. Opponent strength of schedule: 1.6

Bowles' first year (4 games): Points allowed: 1st. Total yards allowed: 3rd. Pass defense: 2nd. Rush defense: 12th. Blitz rate: 70.4%. Opponent strength of schedule: -2.4.

Against significantly better strength of schedule (value that however you want) and a larger data size to date in '09, we were the creme of the crop in pass defense, points allowed, and yards allowed- and Rex's aggressive blitz schemes were the reason for it. Yes, under Bowles, we've clearly blitz a higher percentage, and I give Bowles complete credit for sticking with what works. I loved seeing Skrine blitz three times in a row resulting in three bat downs against the dolphins. However, let's not act like Rex's blitz schemes didn't completely change the NFL for those first two years. Rex blitzed on basically every single third down- sometimes to our detriment. His blitz percentage is lower than Bowles simply because we weren't playing the with the lead as much as we have these first four games, so opponents weren't dropping back as much on first and second downs, thereby eliminating the chance to blitz. 

We were the truly dominant defense that you speak of- and not just that year, but over a two year stretch going through 2010. So while I genuinely love what Bowles and Mac have done and are continuing to do 4 games into their career, let's not rewrite history just to get a good noogie on Rex. At some point, we've got to get over this whole ex-gf thing we've got going on with Rex and let the facts smack us in the face. We just have to. It's good for the soul.

(http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2009&seasonType=&Submit=Go)

(http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2015&seasonType=&Submit=Go)

(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2009.htm)

(http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/2015.htm)

 

 

Under Rex we never had a D that scared anyone like the Ravens' D did in their prime. With all the new rules concerning safety I wonder if it is even possible to scare offenses anymore,

[NYs Stepchild]

Rex Ryan's bugaboo is failure to force turnovers. He's obsessed with the rankings of HIS defense being top this or that in yards allowed, When you are aggressive for the ball sometimes you get burned for the big play. It's the tradeoff. the dumb end of year rankings seems more important or at least equally important to him as wins/losses. just another moral victory.

The biggest difference between Bowles', and Rex' defenses is that Rex' Dlinemen read, and react, where as Bowles Dlinemen penetrate, and the LBers read, and react.

That inherently makes Rex better against the run, and Bowles better at pressuring the passer.

The other difference is the premium Bowles obvious puts on having a top flight nickleback, and getting a FS that was a cb/safety tweener instead of a LB/safety tweener.

Otherwise the defenses are very similar.

[bergenjets]

Cromarite wasn't a Jet in 2009 when they had the #1 D in the NFL, it was Donald Strickland, Lito Sheppard and Drew Coleman opposite Revis.  Can't make it to all three, so I'm trying to decide which enshrinement into Canton I'm going to attend.

Shaun Ellis played 13 NFL seasons and was in his prime in seasons 11 and 12. Interesting.

I was thinking the same thing. That backfield ended up being their downfall against Manning in the AFCCG. They had no answer for Garcon with Revis matched up on Wayne. Had Cro been on that team with his skill set at that time, the story might have been different. To Rex's credit, he performed a miracle with the 2009 team especially after Jenkins went down. The 2010 team was a much more talented team.

[NYs Stepchild]

I was thinking the same thing. That backfield ended up being their downfall against Manning in the AFCCG. They had no answer for Garcon with Revis matched up on Wayne. Had Cro been on that team with his skill set at that time, the story might have been different. To Rex's credit, he performed a miracle with the 2009 team especially after Jenkins went down. The 2010 team was a much more talented team.

They were doing fine until Sheppard left the game with an injury. Once that happened the Colts started running 4 wide and Peyton had his way with us.

Still Rex made no secret of the fact that he was all about stopping the run first, and made that a priority. If he wanted better depth at CB he would have gotten it. He wanted more depth on the line and he did get it.

[Bronx Jet01]

The front seven of this team is way better. Richardson, Wilkerson , Snacks. Please. And the secondary is probably better.. Jets were 2 deep in 2010. Now the depth is sick. But this group has to play a real opponent on offense first

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[southparkcpa]

I don't know this. Rex's defenses were inconsistent could not get off the field on third down and in his best 2 years 09 and 10 they could not rush the passer. Rex's only truly great defense was with the Ravens who just so happened to be loaded with HOF players.

This is the dirty secret no one talks about at dinner party's.

 

REX is an average DC....  Many great defenses are out there with NO help from REX.  

[RoadFan]

They were doing fine until Sheppard left the game with an injury. Once that happened the Colts started running 4 wide and Peyton had his way with us.

Still Rex made no secret of the fact that he was all about stopping the run first, and made that a priority. If he wanted better depth at CB he would have gotten it. He wanted more depth on the line and he did get it.

Peyton attacked Drew Coleman.  That long pass to who i think was Austin Collie was the killer.

[drdetroit]

The front seven of this team is way better. Richardson, Wilkerson , Snacks. Please. And the secondary is probably better.. Jets were 2 deep in 2010. Now the depth is sick. But this group has to play a real opponent on offense first

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

At the end of the day you have to have the horses.  Rex had Cro and trash to work with in the secondary 2013-2014.

[Savage69]

At the end of the day you have to have the horses.  Rex had Cro and trash to work with in the secondary 2013-2014.

In 2014 Cro was with Bowles and the Cards..

[Jet Nut]

It'll be interesting to compare at the end of the season. We have faced Brady, and Eli (obv the common of Luck, Tannehill) thus far, the two of them have quite a few rings and are off to great starts. 

I think it's difficult to compare at this point, but we'll see. 

I thought it was about Rex here vs Bowles.  Thought the topic was his approach, where he fails.  And how Bowles approach is different.  Has little to do with Bowles and the Jets fair against Brady or Eli compared to Rex and his Bills vs the same teams.