Cimini Article on Lack of Sacks Allowed by O-line

[EM31]

I want Fitz to win 10-12-14,...  I will be the happiest man in the world to eat crow if we can get to the playoffs and win in the playoffs w/ Fitz.  that doesn't mean I shouldn't have concerns w/ the way he has played so far though.

+1

[EM31]

He will probably lose to the Pats more often that he wins...kind of like every other quarterback in the NFL.

I too am interested to see how we play against the Pats but I have to think hat in order to have any chance it will need to be the defense wearing their Superman capes that day.

I am hopeful but not confident.

[Sperm Edwards]

a few reasons(not in any particular order):

1. the OL is actually playing better

2. the WRs actually get open

3. the OCs O is designed to get rid of it quickly

4. Fitz is making quick decisions and is avoiding hits when he is pressured

5. We haven't yet played against teams with particularly good pass rushes. All of them are below the mean in sacks per game/sacks per attempt, including literally the 2 worst in the NFL in 4 games.

- Cleveland has 10 sacks in 5 games, but 7 of them came in 1 game against Tennessee who gives up multiple sacks every game anyway. In the other games against teams who actually have an OL and a non-rookie QB who can read defenses, like the Jets, Cleveland has recorded 3 sacks in 4 games.

- Indy is #31 in the league. They have 6 sacks in 5 games, and 3 of them came against Tennessee (see above). 3 sacks in 4 games against not-Tennessee, exactly the same as Cleveland.

- Miami is #32 (1 sack in 4 games). We all saw the game. 

- Philadelphia has 11 sacks this season: 1 against the Jets, 1 against Atlanta, 3 against Dallas (knocked Romo out), 1 against Washington, and 5 against the Saints (Brees often gets sacked multiple times per game, getting dropped 3x and 4x vs Dallas and Tampa, and just took a terrible Geno-esque sack against Atlanta last night that took them out of FG range before the half). So 2 games where they got to the QB and 3 where they barely touched him. Hardly a demon pass rush. And whether registered as sacks or not, Fitzpatrick was pressured heavily on many plays, and threw it away or checked down against a phantom pass rush that didn't exist, and had an atrocious game in general when he didn't have Ivory and only had 1 healthy, high-end WR instead of his usual 2.

Just saying, these aren't exactly the Monsters of the Midway that we've played so far.

[AFJF]

5. We haven't yet played against teams with particularly good pass rushes. All of them are below the mean in sacks per game/sacks per attempt, including literally the 2 worst in the NFL in 4 games.

- Cleveland has 10 sacks in 5 games, but 7 of them came in 1 game against Tennessee who gives up multiple sacks every game anyway. In the other games against teams who actually have an OL and a non-rookie QB who can read defenses, like the Jets, Cleveland has recorded 3 sacks in 4 games.

- Indy is #31 in the league. They have 6 sacks in 5 games, and 3 of them came against Tennessee (see above). 3 sacks in 4 games against not-Tennessee, exactly the same as Cleveland.

- Miami is #32 (1 sack in 4 games). We all saw the game. 

- Philadelphia has 11 sacks this season: 1 against the Jets, 1 against Atlanta, 3 against Dallas (knocked Romo out), 1 against Washington, and 5 against the Saints (Brees often gets sacked multiple times per game, getting dropped 3x and 4x vs Dallas and Tampa, and just took a terrible Geno-esque sack against Atlanta last night that took them out of FG range before the half). So 2 games where they got to the QB and 3 where they barely touched him. Hardly a demon pass rush. And whether registered as sacks or not, Fitzpatrick was pressured heavily on many plays, and threw it away or checked down against a phantom pass rush that didn't exist, and had an atrocious game in general when he didn't have Ivory and only had 1 healthy, high-end WR instead of his usual 2.

Just saying, these aren't exactly the Monsters of the Midway that we've played so far.

Correct, but not many sacks occur at the 2.5 second mark.

[Jet Nut]

Just so you know Fitz career sack numbers are much better than 2 sacks per game. SO Fitz has always gotten rid of the ball quickly.

I expect Fitz to get better as the year progresses because now he has the best possession receivers he's ever had in his career which works nicely with his style. You know the same style most of the better QB's in the NFL now use . Getting rid of the ball quickly is what its all about these days.

Once again, know you weren't part of the original debate.  I'm not saying anything negative about Fitz, not saying he isn't part of the reason the sack number is so low.  The original bit of nonsense was that Geno was sacked at a crazy high rate and was getting blamed for the sack totals a year ago.  My original remark was Geno in 13 games was sacked 28 times, not horrible.  Vick in 3 was sacked 19 times.  Horrible.  Agreed Fitz knows the line calls etc better than a 2nd year QB but then you factor in the improved line play, we're winning not trailing and throwing on every down and we have better WRs who get open, not one WR who is doubled every time he goes out for a pass.

This apparently is nonsesne to some who cant see beyond killing Geno.  

[EM31]

He had it right. 

Two QBs were responsible for those sack totals.  Don't know how they hung the OL out to dry.  

By holding on to the ball for too long.

[EM31]

Once again, know you weren't part of the original debate.  I'm not saying anything negative about Fitz, not saying he isn't part of the reason the sack number is so low.  The original bit of nonsense was that Geno was sacked at a crazy high rate and was getting blamed for the sack totals a year ago.  My original remark was Geno in 13 games was sacked 28 times, not horrible.  Vick in 3 was sacked 19 times.  Horrible.  Agreed Fitz knows the line calls etc better than a 2nd year QB but then you factor in the improved line play, we're winning not trailing and throwing on every down and we have better WRs who get open, not one WR who is doubled every time he goes out for a pass.

This apparently is nonsesne to some who cant see beyond killing Geno.  

Nobody is inflating Fitz at all.

What we are objecting to is the idea that the improvement here has nothing to do with the play of the QBs because it does.

[BRONX DUDE]

Geno couldn't find the open man if you gave him 10 minutes. 

Who is Geno Smith anyway? He gets to much print.

[Jet Nut]

Nobody is inflating Fitz at all.

What we are objecting to is the idea that the improvement here has nothing to do with the play of the QBs because it does.

And I never posted that, never said that.  And clearly said Fitz was part of the equation, part of the improvement.

The stupid part is the claim that its all because of the QB, ignoring the change in personnel and coaching staff and the scores these first 4 games.  They all play into it

[Larz]

so they are giving up fewer sacks, and that is good

 

 

[EM31]

And I never posted that, never said that.  And clearly said Fitz was part of the equation, part of the improvement.

The stupid part is the claim that its all because of the QB, ignoring the change in personnel and coaching staff and the scores these first 4 games.  They all play into it

I agree with this

[SouthernJet]

If Geno is the answer to beating the Pats, Jets should put him on the trade market for multiple first rounders...teams will be banging down the door.

LOL

[SouthernJet]

5. We haven't yet played against teams with particularly good pass rushes. All of them are below the mean in sacks per game/sacks per attempt, including literally the 2 worst in the NFL in 4 games.

- Cleveland has 10 sacks in 5 games, but 7 of them came in 1 game against Tennessee who gives up multiple sacks every game anyway. In the other games against teams who actually have an OL and a non-rookie QB who can read defenses, like the Jets, Cleveland has recorded 3 sacks in 4 games.

- Indy is #31 in the league. They have 6 sacks in 5 games, and 3 of them came against Tennessee (see above). 3 sacks in 4 games against not-Tennessee, exactly the same as Cleveland.

- Miami is #32 (1 sack in 4 games). We all saw the game. 

- Philadelphia has 11 sacks this season: 1 against the Jets, 1 against Atlanta, 3 against Dallas (knocked Romo out), 1 against Washington, and 5 against the Saints (Brees often gets sacked multiple times per game, getting dropped 3x and 4x vs Dallas and Tampa, and just took a terrible Geno-esque sack against Atlanta last night that took them out of FG range before the half). So 2 games where they got to the QB and 3 where they barely touched him. Hardly a demon pass rush. And whether registered as sacks or not, Fitzpatrick was pressured heavily on many plays, and threw it away or checked down against a phantom pass rush that didn't exist, and had an atrocious game in general when he didn't have Ivory and only had 1 healthy, high-end WR instead of his usual 2.

Just saying, these aren't exactly the Monsters of the Midway that we've played so far.

every Jet fan does feat the 3-1 is a Paper Tiger.. it is in our DNA L(

[Sperm Edwards]

every Jet fan does feat the 3-1 is a Paper Tiger.. it is in our DNA L(

I'll piece together what I'm guessing you're trying to say here and reply based on that.

It's awesome that we're 3-1 (ok, it's good; awesome would be 4-0), and it's undeniable we're in great position compared to other non-division winners for a WC spot. Particularly with what appears to be an overall not-brutal Jets schedule for the rest of the season (other than 2 NE games, the next-best team we play are the Bills who have significant problems of their own).

Further, there are a number of reasons why we could get better than we were through the first 4 games. (most notably, through improved QB play from Fitz, since there's the most dramatic room for improvement there and the bye should only help in that dept, and actually sacking the QB with Richardson back and attracting OL attention). 

That said, the reality is so far in those 4 games we've played 4 weaklings and lost to one of said weaklings. We play another weakling tomorrow and should handle them pretty easily. The week after that will be interesting against the Pats. Other than the 2 NE games, the next-toughest opponent on the rest of our schedule are the 3-2 Bills with no QB and an array of other issues from the top on down.

So we're definitely in a good place. At the same time it's also fair, when pointing to the few times Fitz has been sacked, to also point out the teams we've played aren't exactly terrorizing the rest of the league's QBs either: most of them emerge unscathed as well.

[AFJF]

exactly I don't know why any criticism of fitz ends up finger pointing at geno like "he sucks worse!" You don't get to makes excuses for poor play by pointing out another players past failures

I'm pointing out the fact that he's our best option.  I think too many fans didn't do any homework on Fitz when he was acquired so they had no idea that this is the player he is.  I guess I'm not all up in arms about his play because I didn't expect him to be more than what he is.

[Sperm Edwards]

Correct, but not many sacks occur at the 2.5 second mark.

It's just fine; it looks more helpful on paper than it actually is. The other half of that coin is getting the ball out that quickly (even in the absence of converting) also means that often our pass plays aren't fully developing, and/or that also often only the primary target WR and the checkdown option are being looked at. Yes, some drive-killing sacks are avoided, but that goes hand in hand with other first down pass attempts not being converted and multiple easy/sure-thing TD passes aren't attempted at all. Further, by not extending plays and drives, the defense we go up against doesn't get as winded. Point being, it's not remotely close to an all-upside thing for Fitz to get rid of it immediately. It's been good only in that, given our QB's mental and physical limitations on the field, it's better that he get rid of it since he surveys his options too slowly and stares down his primary targets too frequently.

The best things we have going for us are a dominant defense (immensely helping our offense enjoy the 2nd-best field position in the league to start our drives), and a comparatively favorable schedule. Despite that great field position for the offense, and despite playing generally bad (or slumping/injured) defenses at the time, we're only in the middle (#15) in points per drive, in the bottom half in percentage of drives resulting in a score. Despite the 3rd-most rushing attempts (per game) so far, we're a lowly 22nd in TOP per drive. A cupcake schedule from a passing offense's perspective - keep in mind even Indy's already-lowly pass D rank is a mirage because with their injuries we mostly played against an all 2nd-team secondary in week 2 - should have yielded better numbers/results.

All that said, from the looks of things I do think we should still make the playoffs, looking at our remaining on-paper schedule and the way the AFC is shaping out. After that the best teams don't necessarily advance; just the ones who play better in those 2-3 playoff matchups (recall our playoff wins in the 2009 and 2010 seasons). So barring something unexpected, we should have that puncher's chance come January. 

[ljr]

I'll piece together what I'm guessing you're trying to say here and reply based on that.

It's awesome that we're 3-1 (ok, it's good; awesome would be 4-0), and it's undeniable we're in great position compared to other non-division winners for a WC spot. Particularly with what appears to be an overall not-brutal Jets schedule for the rest of the season (other than 2 NE games, the next-best team we play are the Bills who have significant problems of their own).

Further, there are a number of reasons why we could get better than we were through the first 4 games. (most notably, through improved QB play from Fitz, since there's the most dramatic room for improvement there and the bye should only help in that dept, and actually sacking the QB with Richardson back and attracting OL attention). 

That said, the reality is so far in those 4 games we've played 4 weaklings and lost to one of said weaklings. We play another weakling tomorrow and should handle them pretty easily. The week after that will be interesting against the Pats. Other than the 2 NE games, the next-toughest opponent on the rest of our schedule are the 3-2 Bills with no QB and an array of other issues from the top on down.

So we're definitely in a good place. At the same time it's also fair, when pointing to the few times Fitz has been sacked, to also point out the teams we've played aren't exactly terrorizing the rest of the league's QBs either: most of them emerge unscathed as well.

that is pretty amazing that you see last years 4-12 team as better than everyone else we play this year except NE!

all hail mighty Mac &  Terrific Todd!!

[Thor99]

Paging the Deep Balls Faction, please report to the lobby for your meds...

How can I join this group?

 

Please tell me there's a secret handshake. 

[ljr]

How can I join this group?

 

Please tell me there's a secret handshake. 

they meet in Key West .. Think the handshake is called a reacharound 

[Thor99]

Has issues. I did but I am done. he cant be reached any longer. just trolls all post sand is bitter at life and blames others.

I know you never really liked going to those Bills games anyway. 

 

Can I have a job?

[Thor99]

they meet in Key West .. Think the handshake is called a reacharound 

I joined that club 3 years ago. 

[SouthernJet]

I'll piece together what I'm guessing you're trying to say here and reply based on that.

It's awesome that we're 3-1 (ok, it's good; awesome would be 4-0), and it's undeniable we're in great position compared to other non-division winners for a WC spot. Particularly with what appears to be an overall not-brutal Jets schedule for the rest of the season (other than 2 NE games, the next-best team we play are the Bills who have significant problems of their own).

Further, there are a number of reasons why we could get better than we were through the first 4 games. (most notably, through improved QB play from Fitz, since there's the most dramatic room for improvement there and the bye should only help in that dept, and actually sacking the QB with Richardson back and attracting OL attention). 

That said, the reality is so far in those 4 games we've played 4 weaklings and lost to one of said weaklings. We play another weakling tomorrow and should handle them pretty easily. The week after that will be interesting against the Pats. Other than the 2 NE games, the next-toughest opponent on the rest of our schedule are the 3-2 Bills with no QB and an array of other issues from the top on down.

So we're definitely in a good place. At the same time it's also fair, when pointing to the few times Fitz has been sacked, to also point out the teams we've played aren't exactly terrorizing the rest of the league's QBs either: most of them emerge unscathed as well.

I meant fear not feat LOL,,agree on competition so far, why I said I fear 3-1 is paper tiger due to who we played

 

[Integrity28]

How can I join this group?

 

Please tell me there's a secret handshake. 

It's something like this...  

[Sperm Edwards]

that is pretty amazing that you see last years 4-12 team as better than everyone else we play this year except NE!

all hail mighty Mac &  Terrific Todd!!

I don't get it.

[Sperm Edwards]

I meant fear not feat LOL,,agree on competition so far, why I said I fear 3-1 is paper tiger due to who we played

 

Ha, ok I misinterpreted your typo. Thought 'feat' was the correct word and...and now I don't remember anymore. I just like to type a lot.

[JohnnyLV]

The Fitz arguments are eerily similar to the arguments in favor of Rex.

Something good happening? It is BECAUSE of Fitz

Fitz does something bad? It's someone else's fault, or "Geno would do worse" or any number of excuses. Like the guy is on pace for 24 interceptions but in typical Fitz/Rex argument form, his interceptions are "good" interceptions.

 

 

[EM31]

The Fitz arguments are eerily similar to the arguments in favor of Rex.

Something good happening? It is BECAUSE of Fitz

Fitz does something bad? It's someone else's fault, or "Geno would do worse" or any number of excuses. Like the guy is on pace for 24 interceptions but in typical Fitz/Rex argument form, his interceptions are "good" interceptions.

 

 

This is exactly what we feel about the Geno crowd.  Nothing bad over the last few years has ever the fault of Geno.  Not even once.  Not ever. Every other excuse under the sun except that Geno sucks as a QB.  Conversely, anything good that has happened to the NY Jets this year, anything at all is because of every other reason under the sun except for the obvious one that we have changed over the QB.

Talk about bizarre.

In the real world the evidence says otherwise.  But by all means carry on living in fanrtasyland 

[NYs Stepchild]

I'm pointing out the fact that he's our best option.  I think too many fans didn't do any homework on Fitz when he was acquired so they had no idea that this is the player he is.  I guess I'm not all up in arms about his play because I didn't expect him to be more than what he is.

I'm up in arms. We'd better get Fitz out of here before it's too late.

[AFJF]

I'm up in arms. We'd better get Fitz out of here before it's too late.

It's absolutely terrifying...do you know that despite playing quarterback for some of the best teams in the NFL, he's never won more than six starts and he was traded for essentially nothing by the Houston Texans?  I mean, who knows quarterback talent better than the Houston Texans?

[jamesr]

Another game, no more sacks. 

[AFJF]

Another game, no more sacks. 

No thanks to Fitz, obviously.

[ljr]

I don't get it.

if I read your post correctly (and phrased my response better) you see us being the best team in all of our games this year other than NE.  ... That is amazing work our FO has done since being 4-12 last season 

[Sperm Edwards]

if I read your post correctly (and phrased my response better) you see us being the best team in all of our games this year other than NE.  ... That is amazing work our FO has done since being 4-12 last season 

Oh. Not that I'm disagreeing that they did a very good job, but I just meant it looked like the only seriously tough team we face is NE (twice).