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is it time to swing the wrecking ball at the Jets' aging roster ? ? ?


kelly

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Reaching into the Week 10 mailbag for a question about the New York Jets :

          The Great Jetster @TheGreatJetster

@RichCimini do the Jets need to be completely rebuilt before they can become a Super Bowl contender? Their best players are 30+ #jetsmail

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Another worthless Cimini article. The older players identified in the piece were as a whole not Thursday's problem. Maybe Marshall's drops were problems but that is not something that developed with age. Obviously the team wants to build a stable of solid young players. Excellent cutting analysis. :rolleyes:

Not only has Mac only had one draft but he also has to build a team out of a roster that has had terrible drafts as a whole out of the past six or seven years. Yes, we've picked up a few good players but as a whole we have dumped our picks. From 2009-2014 drafts we have retained less than half of our draft picks. That is especially terrible when you factor in the drafts where we traded up (e.g. 2009) and when we had a large set of picks (e.g. 2014). It will take some time to make up for those bad drafts by building a younger team.

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It is time to use every minute, asset, resource, scout, draft pick, quality player, cent, etc...  to find a franchise QB.  No price is too high.

Nothing.  Else.  Matters.

They should have given up everything for Mariota IMO.  Find another one or wallow in mediocrity forever.

 

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The Jets are not "built to win now".  Like any other NFL team, we have a portion of the roster for which it would be convenient to win now, but we are a rebuilding team that has older players who are producing.

Agree completely on all of this meaning nothing.  In today's NFL, until you find your franchise quarterback it's all for naught anyway.

SAR I

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i know hes struggled lately but we should try to get matthew stafford off the lions....only if we can find a way to mitigate that cap charge though. with that you draft nothing but offense. wr, rb, oline. thats it. todays nfl requires a dominant offense to win. defense is nice, but the rules make it hard to ever have a really dominant offense. we have a nice d-line and our secondary is ok. we can find some lber's via free agency and mauldin is probably a nice player. but enough of this building a team with a dominant defense over offense mentality. it just doesnt work consistently anymore. you need to trot out a franchise qb and dominant skill players on offense. i'll be quite alright watching this team win games 35-27. it beats watching them lose games 21-13

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The Jets aren't in terrible shape moving forward. They can cut Cro, Pace, Coples, and re-do Brick's deal with minimal hurt. IMO, you don't re-sign Ivory for a significant number, but you can go out and get a better, more durable back (Lamar Miller?) if you want. Marshall and Decker aren't falling off yet. Revis and Mangold will still be good next year. The big FA add I'd make (assuming Brees doesn't become magically available) would be on the OL. The big question is whether or not they value Mo and/or Sheldon enough to not just give Leonard Williams their job. I think you'd get a decent return on Sheldon, whom I don't trust to not be suspended every year, anyway.

 

The kinda-good news is that the 2016 draft market for QBs is kinda meh right now, so they can pick up a falling prospect in the way they should have tried for Bridgewater or Carr. Spend a pick on some speed at OLB, draft another WR, hope drafting Goff or Hackenberg pays off in 2017, and away we go.

 

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There are a lot of older players on this team.  Revis is definitely on the downswing of his career like Mangold, but both can still be productive for a couple more years.  Cro should have been cut already.  Coples is useless.  Pace is done as well.  We need to draft lots of OL to replace two and maybe three spots.  Mauldin is going to be a stud.  If Milliner could be a stud like he was drafted to be then with him, Williams, Skrine, Pryor and Gilchrist our secondary is fine for many years even when Revis is done.  Can Petty be a franchise QB??  If not, we need to draft another one soon.  I would love to keep Mo and trade Sheldon for some picks.  We also need WR's as I believe Marshall is too unreliable.  Decker is solid and Devin has shown nothing yet.  We need another RB to compliment or replace Ivory since his running style could lead to a shortened career.  No need to blow up the roster.  Dump Coples, Pace, Cro and maybe Brick or sign for very cheap.

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People criticize the article, but the premise is correct. Although all teams have turnover we will see a very significant amount of it over the next couple of years. Do not be surprised if we let a number of people walk and not be that active in free agency the next couple years to build more compensatory picks.

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  • 2 weeks later...

5-5 Is No Time to Tear Up the Dance Card

A great friend who is also a great fan of the Green & White was unhappy with the way the Jets' symmetrical first 10 games have unfolded: two wins, a loss and two wins followed by two losses, a win and two losses.

"Really stinks to just play out the 6 games left," he texted.

Well, it would stink if anything is etched in stone at this point. But it's not. The Jets are one of four AFC teams at 5-5, all tied for the sixth and final playoff berth. True, the Green & White have put themselves behind the tiebreaker eightball with the losses to Buffalo and Houston.But the Bills tiebreaker would evaporate with a Jets win on the road in Week 17. And should the Texans pass the Colts in the AFC South standings, the Jets would then gain a tiebreaker over the South's second-place team from their Week 2 win at Indy. (All of which is why it's so silly to start playoff analysis with the phrase "If the season ended today..." It's not ending today or any time soon.)

So what's the prognosis for 5-5 teams to reach the postseason grid? I'm glad you asked.Since 2002, the start of the current playoff setup, not a lot of .500 teams after 10 games have squeezed into the dance, but there are enough — 17 of 58 teams that started 5-5 qualified for the playoffs.

Since New England is well ahead in the AFC East, we'll narrow our focus to 5-5 teams that made it as wild cards. There have been seven in the past 13 seasons:

2002 — Cleveland (9-7), sixth seed

2004 — St. Louis (8-8), fifth seed

2005 — Washington (10-6), sixth seed

2006 — JETS (10-6), fifth seed

2007 — Washington (10-6), sixth seed

2009 — Baltimore (9-7), sixth seed

2012 — Cincinnati (10-6), sixth seed

Something that was a fairly annual NFL occurrence through 2009 has happened only once in the past five postseasons, so by my reckoning the time is right for a 5-5 team to break through again. And with the Jets' current schedule strength of 34-36 in their last six games (including the 10-0 Patriots at home), why not the Green & White?

All that being said, going 5-1 or 4-2 down the stretch will be no easy deal, which is why head coach Todd Bowles and the Jets players will be asked over and over the next six weeks about their chances. We expect them to remain positive and talk in terms of Bowles' 16-round-prizefight analogy.

"I think the confidence level is high," tackle D'Brickashaw Fergusonicon-article-link.gif said. "There's a lot of teams in our situation right now. We just have to realize the situation we're in. We definitely know these games coming up mean that much more if we're going to separate ourselves from the pack. We need to start putting together some wins."

And not worrying about what anyone else is doing. Our favorite Bowles answer to a question from the past few weeks: Does he ever do any scoreboard watching?

"Only to see if we're winning," he said.

Never give up, baby, never give up. And now it's on to the one-game season that is the Miami Dolphins at home on Sunday.

>      http://www.newyorkjets.com/news/article-randylangefb/5-5-Is-No-Time-to-Tear-Up-the-Dance-Card/3c0129a1-ef25-462c-ad6c-616eaa262701

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@RichCimini:

What ******* window?  Window to what?  They were a sh*t team, they are a sh*t team.  They aspire to mediocrity.  That window is closing?  Good ******* riddance. 

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Ryan Fitzpatrick has a target on his back at the moment.

Media and fans want to point the finger at Fitzpatrick for the Jets losing four of their last five games because … the easiest thing to do is blame the quarterback, and the quickest fix is to switch quarterbacks.But Fitzpatrick is not the problem with the 2015 Jets. He has not played well, but he was never supposed to be the answer for this team. Going back to the summer, this team was built to win with defense and a strong running game. The quarterback? He just had to stay out of the way and not lose games for the Jets, whether it was Fitzpatrick or the pre-punch Geno Smith.

The formula worked through the first five games. The Jets were gaining 146 yards per game on the ground with Chris Ivory near the top of the league leaders in rushing. On defense, the Jets allowed 269.2 yards per game and forced 15 turnovers as they opened the season 4-1.

Then, everything changed.

Over the past five games, the Jets have the fifth-worst rushing offense in the NFL, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, gaining just 78 yards per game. On defense, they are tied for 12th, allowing 376.8 yards per game. They have forced five turnovers in that stretch, four coming in the win over the Jaguars.If the rushing game and defense are not working, Fitzpatrick has no chance. This team is set up to win without Fitzpatrick having to carry it. He showed early in the season he is a nice complementary piece, but he is what he is — a journeyman quarterback. This is not Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers, who can carry a team. But the Jets should not need him to carry them.

The mystery is what has happened to the two key areas the Jets are built around.

Let’s start with the run game.

Ivory put together two huge back-to-back games against the Dolphins (166 yards) and Redskins (146 yards), but those are the only two times this season he has cracked 100 yards (he had 99 against the Bills). On Sunday, he only carried the ball eight times for 36 yards.The first question is: Is Ivory healthy? He had hamstring problems against the Patriots at the beginning of this bad run, but returned to practice that week, and the Jets say he is fine. Against the Texans, he banged his knee on the first play of the game but returned shortly after. Ivory has not looked like the same relentless runner he was early in the season, and that may be because he is hurting. On third-and-1 in the second quarter Sunday, he bounced the run outside and was tackled for no gain. No way that would’ve happened early in the season.

The other major issue has been the offensive line. That group has suffered with Willie Colon being lost for the season and Nick Mangold being in and out of the lineup with neck and hand injuries. Mangold may have proven he is the MVP of this team with how poorly the offense functions when he is out.Offensive coordinator Chan Gailey also seems to get away from the run too quickly. The Jets have fallen behind early in all four of their recent losses, but only the Raiders game was out of control by halftime. There was no reason to abandon the run against the Texans (unless Ivory was injured worse than the Jets said).A bigger concern may be the defense, which was expected to be one of the best in the league. Instead, it looks totally mediocre. The pass rush is nonexistent despite having a defensive line filled with first-round picks. The linebackers can’t cover me.

Darrelle Revis and Antonio Cromartie look like a band from the 1960s on a reunion tour — the songs sort of sound the same, but not quite.The Jets are not particularly good at tackling, coverage or preventing the big play. They have allowed 39 passes of 20 yards or more, tied for fourth-most in the league.Jets coach Todd Bowles’ blitzing schemes that worked well early in the season are no longer effective. It is on Bowles to adjust and figure out a way to create a pass rush.

So, you can blame Fitzpatrick if you’d like. There’s plenty of ammo there. But let’s remember who was supposed to carry this team and how those units have stumbled in the past five weeks.

>      http://nypost.com/2015/11/24/the-biggest-culprits-for-the-jets-demise-and-its-not-fitzpatrick/

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. They have allowed 39 passes of 20 yards or more, tied for fourth-most in the league.Jets coach Todd Bowles’ blitzing schemes that worked well early in the season are no longer effective. It is on Bowles to adjust and figure out a way to create a pass rush.

>      http://nypost.com/2015/11/24/the-biggest-culprits-for-the-jets-demise-and-its-not-fitzpatrick/

I would like to know how many of those were on Cromartie.  That has been his M.O. the past few years.  I know Revis gave up the bomb to Hopkins.  How many of the remaining 38 were on Cro?

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i guess cutting through all this crap i'd really like to know what mccags really thinks of petty, whether he will be in the conversation to start come training camp next season.  i guess we may not get insight into this until the draft since the jets will probably bring fitz back so they won't (i'm guessing) pursue a big name FA qb.  if the jets don't make the playoffs are are drafting in the 15 range or so it's possible a guy like cook will be there and if that happens, we'll know what they think of petty.  while it's increasingly clear what the new regime thinks of geno we just have nada on petty except for a worthless comment here and there.

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The Jets aren't in terrible shape moving forward. They can cut Cro, Pace, Coples, and re-do Brick's deal with minimal hurt. IMO, you don't re-sign Ivory for a significant number, but you can go out and get a better, more durable back (Lamar Miller?) if you want. Marshall and Decker aren't falling off yet. Revis and Mangold will still be good next year. The big FA add I'd make (assuming Brees doesn't become magically available) would be on the OL. The big question is whether or not they value Mo and/or Sheldon enough to not just give Leonard Williams their job. I think you'd get a decent return on Sheldon, whom I don't trust to not be suspended every year, anyway.

 

The kinda-good news is that the 2016 draft market for QBs is kinda meh right now, so they can pick up a falling prospect in the way they should have tried for Bridgewater or Carr. Spend a pick on some speed at OLB, draft another WR, hope drafting Goff or Hackenberg pays off in 2017, and away we go.

 

NostraTh0mas!!!

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You don't break up a roster unless your have replacements. And the NFL doesn't allow for that kind of depth any more. You draft the best you can and get out the FA duct tape for everything else. That's what Macc had to do this past offseason.

This past offseason Mac, Bowles and Woody thought they could put a team together that could make the playoffs, thus entertain the fans.  I don't think that anyone thought that they were going to go deep in the playoffs.  

I think the overall injury situation, plus the suspensions, really hurt them.  Some of the injuries were not necessarily bad luck (players getting old, not conditioned, etc.).  

I think the better approach for next year is a 2+ year rebuild.  Seeing how Brick and Mangold have deteriorated, I would presume next year that they are functional but potentially even worse than this year.  Giacomini will only be worse too.

Key in a rebuild is good drafting, particularly next year players who have longer lives (not necessarily running backs).  More picks is better.  

The only personnel move I begrudge Mac from last year was Cromartie.  He should have given that money to Wilkerson for a long-term contract.   Signing quality players to second contracts is good (Gilcrist, Skrine, Carpenter).  We need more of those.  

Brick and Mangold must free up cap space, one way or the other.  

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This past offseason Mac, Bowles and Woody thought they could put a team together that could make the playoffs, thus entertain the fans.  I don't think that anyone thought that they were going to go deep in the playoffs.  

I think the overall injury situation, plus the suspensions, really hurt them.  Some of the injuries were not necessarily bad luck (players getting old, not conditioned, etc.).  

I think the better approach for next year is a 2+ year rebuild.  Seeing how Brick and Mangold have deteriorated, I would presume next year that they are functional but potentially even worse than this year.  Giacomini will only be worse too.

Key in a rebuild is good drafting, particularly next year players who have longer lives (not necessarily running backs).  More picks is better.  

The only personnel move I begrudge Mac from last year was Cromartie.  He should have given that money to Wilkerson for a long-term contract.   Signing quality players to second contracts is good (Gilcrist, Skrine, Carpenter).  We need more of those.  

Brick and Mangold must free up cap space, one way or the other.  

Macc has gone on record as saying he thinks that good offensive lineman can be drafted in the mid rounds. I don't know how he takes that attitude this year. LT and RG should he the number 1 priorities... the offensive line is turning into a debacle. And a backup for Mangold as well.

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