Jump to content

Jets GM Mike Maccagnan: Success doesn't hinge on making playoffs


Gas2No99

Recommended Posts

Funny but the level of hypocrisy is astounding.  How can someone destroy Rex for what he did with Idziks roster and give Maccagnan and Bowles a pat on the back for 8-8.  There isn't a unit on the field that isn't vastly improved from anything Rex had.

Because Rex was here 6 years and the whole gig was falling apart for him?  And 8-8 is an improvement over 4-12? 

Playoffs aren't the most important part of the equation for a new regime.  Building a team that competes for years is

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 215
  • Created
  • Last Reply

That's bullsh*t.  This team started 4-1 and had the Pats on the ropes.  If they dont make the postseason, it's a total failure.  The schedule is easy and they're just as talented if not more talented than any team they see on Sundays.

I appreciate Mac's big picture and his overall approach to build a sustainable winner but after the start this team had, its playoffs or your coach ****ed up big time.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a better coached team than we have seen for years. Just look at the penalties and professionalism of the players. Yes, there has been some questionable clock management and play calls. Hopefully Bowles will learn from the clock mistakes. There will always be questionable play calling, by every coach, when the play fails. We see it every week, all over the league.

Rex never learned. Six years into the gig there was still an abundance of 12 men on the field penalties, pre-snap penalties, game losing penalties and all that stuff. Now it's happening up in Buffalo. At this point, we have to hope that Bowles grows into the position. It's very possible that he screws up a season that started well and it's very possible that he does not. If he learns from it going forward, I can deal with either outcome.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's bullsh*t.  This team started 4-1 and had the Pats on the ropes.  If they dont make the postseason, it's a total failure.  The schedule is easy and they're just as talented if not more talented than any team they see on Sundays.

I appreciate Mac's big picture and his overall approach to build a sustainable winner but after the start this team had, its playoffs or your coach ****ed up big time.

 

That start was a long time ago. They lost Enunwa, and everything just unraveled. :)

But I honestly think that missing the playoffs wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Herm, Mangini, and Rex all went to the playoffs their first year, and may've led to some unjustified overconfidence (I'd say Mangini was biggest sufferer here, but I digress... ). Bowles' personality doesn't seem to lend itself to that sort of overconfidence, or false sense of accomplishment, but I don't mind the idea of them coming into next year hungry and angry that they missed the post season after that start. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course they won 4 games last year.  Anyone expecting playoffs were fooling themselves.

 

That's bullsh*t.  This team started 4-1 and had the Pats on the ropes.  If they dont make the postseason, it's a total failure.

 

The Jets are going to get 8 wins.

That's double last year's output, quite a feat for a rebuilding mess, kudos to Macca and Todd.

Making the playoffs doesn't matter if we aren't capable of winning a playoff game so I don't see the difference between 8 wins and 9 for this team from a standpoint of heading in the right direction, optimism for next year, etc.

SAR I

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He's partially right. This has been an unsuccessful season regardless of whether the Jets make the playoffs.

Success in this league can only begin on the day you acquire a legit QB, or a young one like Petty is able to prove he can be.

Until that day, every season is a failure in this NFL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a better coached team than we have seen for years. Just look at the penalties and professionalism of the players. Yes, there has been some questionable clock management and play calls. Hopefully Bowles will learn from the clock mistakes. There will always be questionable play calling, by every coach, when the play fails. We see it every week, all over the league.

Rex never learned. Six years into the gig there was still an abundance of 12 men on the field penalties, pre-snap penalties, game losing penalties and all that stuff. Now it's happening up in Buffalo. At this point, we have to hope that Bowles grows into the position. It's very possible that he screws up a season that started well and it's very possible that he does not. If he learns from it going forward, I can deal with either outcome.

I think penalties are a poor way to look at "discipline".  The Pats and the Seahawks were 2 of the most penalized teams in the league last season. 

This season, the Jets have just as many pre-snap penalties as the Bills. 

This team comes out flat.  That has a ton to do with discipline.  Giving up 3rd and 17 = discipline problems.  4 turnovers at home vs. a division rival = discipline problems.  Cro getting beat over and over again = discipline problems.  Poor clock management, poor personnel usage = discipline problems, poor gap control, missing assignments, bad angles, poor tackling = discipline problems.  And we've seen all of that. 

Penalties are part of the equation but small part IMO.

The Bills are on a record setting pace this season but are currently in the driver seat for the Wild Card and just beat the " more disciplined" Jets in Metlife.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That start was a long time ago. They lost Enunwa, and everything just unraveled. :)

But I honestly think that missing the playoffs wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Herm, Mangini, and Rex all went to the playoffs their first year, and may've led to some unjustified overconfidence (I'd say Mangini was biggest sufferer here, but I digress... ). Bowles' personality doesn't seem to lend itself to that sort of overconfidence, or false sense of accomplishment, but I don't mind the idea of them coming into next year hungry and angry that they missed the post season after that start. 

The old injury excuse, eh?  The Jets are the only team in the league to get hit with injury bug, huh?  ;-)

You bring up some good points but I'm not buying them.  All those teams you mentioned, finished strong and were trending in the right direction as the season progressed. This team has dropped its last 3 of 4.  Rex had a similar run his first season but finished strong.  This team seems to be regressing.  That's not good.  It's not what you want to see.  You want to see marked improvement and that's not what is taking place.  That can still change but I dont see anything indicating it will and thats not good.

4-1 start changes everything, as it should.  Missing the postseason starting 4-1 is unacceptable.  They havent lost any of their best players on the team, no significant injuries other than Mangold for a bit.  So there is no excuse whatsoever to defend this recent skid. 

 

The Jets are going to get 8 wins.

That's double last year's output, quite a feat for a rebuilding mess, kudos to Macca and Todd.

Making the playoffs doesn't matter if we aren't capable of winning a playoff game so I don't see the difference between 8 wins and 9 for this team from a standpoint of heading in the right direction, optimism for next year, etc.

SAR I

I dont think doubling the win total of last season is very significant when you look at how much more talented this roster is than last years.  It's night and day, not even comparable in the slightest.  And they've still got 3 more wins to go, so 8-8 isnt a given.

And I disagree with making the playoffs doesnt matter.  That's ridiculous.  Of course it does.  How many times have ween seen the Wild Card team make a run in recent years?  You never know once your in and there is no team in the AFC other than the Pats that look unbeatable and we took them to the wire. 

Again, 4-1 start with no playoffs is a colossal tank job. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JiF, Macc may well agree with you in private.  But he's not going to throw his first-year coach under the bus by saying he would be disappointed if we don't make the playoffs.  By keeping things close to the vest Macc has given the NY media nothing to work with.  A nice change from past regimes. 

Cimini was forced to spin that story into the GM and HC not being on the same page.  Which is of course bullsh*t.  He even backtracked a few sentences later by saying it's normal for a GM to take the big-picture approach.  Like he's trying to create controversy and then avoid backlash at the same time.  Hilarious.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Again, 4-1 start with no playoffs is a colossal tank job. 

Nonsense.  You are falling into the age old trap of looking at a team pre season, then after a certain number of games  wins or losses making totally different declarations based on a small sample size. 

Looking at this team before the year with a new regime, and no viable excellent #1 QB the best hope was being in the playoff race later into the season and maybe making it or maybe not making it.  suddenly declaring that it would be a colossal tank job because they started well doesn't add up any more than if the team went 1-4 and the attitude would suddenly be that they should all go to canton if they make the playoffs.

As far as the presser goes, my only big concern is the QB issue.  I like Fitzpatrick overall but he is not the Qb that is going to take this team anywhere significant.  I want our gm to be looking hard at any and all QB upgrades that might suddenly pop up.

Geno is a goner.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dunno, I can't tell. I haven't seen much to dictate that he knows what he's doing either way. It's hard to look at this roster and see much to be excited about. This isn't a good enough team to compete for a Super Bowl for the next two years and aside from a very small core of good young defensive players it's hard to say that we're absolutely on the right track. End of the day, this front office has to come up with some sort of coherent plan to find us a quarterback. That's really all that matters, and if they don't start making some serious moves on that end next Spring we'll know what we're dealing with.

Same thing for Bowles really. Up until about the 4th quarter of the New England game it looked like we had finally found a coach, but that has since faded and it's been one cluster**** after another on the field. He really does some stuff that makes you scratch your head sometimes, and the team hasn't looked prepared the past few games. But the sample size is just too small to figure out if he's a dunce or not.

I'm just in meh mode right now. Hopefully it all works out, but there's been enough bad to match the good and with the history of this organization it's hard to be optimistic and trust that yet another administration is going to just figure it all out. Been scorned way too many times at this point. As far as I'm concerned my sports happiness until the Mets report to St. Lucie rests on the shoulders of a 7'3 Latvian giraffe.

@dbatesman this is exactly how I feel about the team, but Doug better articulated it by a lot. Except for the part about the emaciated Detlef Schrempf.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Macc is a GM.  He doesn't, and shouldn't, look at things through a microscope.  His job is to build the team long term through the draft and via smart, cost effective FA signings and trades.  So far he seems to have had a solid draft, made some really smart trades, signed mostly solid guys in FA, and found a serviceable QB to make us at least competitive this year.  So for him, making the playoffs or not is not an end all be all situation.  He's not going to start firing everyone if we don't, that's silly. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

JiF, Macc may well agree with you in private.  But he's not going to throw his first-year coach under the bus by saying he would be disappointed if we don't make the playoffs.  By keeping things close to the vest Macc has given the NY media nothing to work with.  A nice change from past regimes. 

Cimini was forced to spin that story into the GM and HC not being on the same page.  Which is of course bullsh*t.  He even backtracked a few sentences later by saying it's normal for a GM to take the big-picture approach.  Like he's trying to create controversy and then avoid backlash at the same time.  Hilarious.

True.  Might be looking into it too much.  I do like that Bowles stated differently though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True.  Might be looking into it too much.  I do like that Bowles stated differently though.

Exactly.  Of course Bowles would be disappointed.  You don't get long to coach in the NFL these days, so the only sure-fire way to keep your job for a while is to make the playoffs basically every year, starting in Year 1.

Not to mention, many teams (Jets included) have the HC on the same plane as the GM, with both reporting to the owner.  It wouldn't be Macc who has the power to fire him some day.  It's ultimately up to Woody.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nonsense.  You are falling into the age old trap of looking at a team pre season, then after a certain number of games  wins or losses making totally different declarations based on a small sample size. 

Looking at this team before the year with a new regime, and no viable excellent #1 QB the best hope was being in the playoff race later into the season and maybe making it or maybe not making it.  suddenly declaring that it would be a colossal tank job because they started well doesn't add up any more than if the team went 1-4 and the attitude would suddenly be that they should all go to canton if they make the playoffs.

As far as the presser goes, my only big concern is the QB issue.  I like Fitzpatrick overall but he is not the Qb that is going to take this team anywhere significant.  I want our gm to be looking hard at any and all QB upgrades that might suddenly pop up.

Geno is a goner.

 

Disagree.  Nobody really knows what they have during the preseason when you've made as much change as the Jets did this offseason.  They significantly improved their roster, significantly.  Like, not the same team at all.   Expectations change and rightfully so when you're sitting at 4-1 and looked as good as the Jets did early in the season.  This isnt the same team as last year.  That comparison doesnt hold any weight at all with me.

Does your theory remain if the Jets were 8-1 right now?  Should we not expect the playoffs at that point because nobody expected it in the preseason? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

True.  Might be looking into it too much.  I do like that Bowles stated differently though.

I'm not even talking about what he said - of course he's not going to paint them and himself into a corner. 

I'm just shaking my head at the same guys who have killed Rex for months now saying 8-8 is a good job.  Pointing to last years 4-12 record is ridiculous..  There's been a huge influx of talent and the team morale is way up.  They finally feel like their GM has their backs and is trying to field the best team they can. 

If I didn't see a 20 page thread every week of why Rex sucks I wouldn't bother to mention it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not even talking about what he said - of course he's not going to paint them and himself into a corner. 

I'm just shaking my head at the same guys who have killed Rex for months now saying 8-8 is a good job.  Pointing to last years 4-12 record is ridiculous..  There's been a huge influx of talent and the team morale is way up.  They finally feel like their GM has their backs and is trying to field the best team they can. 

If I didn't see a 20 page thread every week of why Rex sucks I wouldn't bother to mention it. 

 

I dont know why this comes as a surprise.  I just dont even get involved anymore in those debates because they're so ridiculous.  Besides, he's gone, so who cares?  

Jets fans have a strange obsession with former players and coaches. It's not exclusive to Rex by any means.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not even talking about what he said - of course he's not going to paint them and himself into a corner. 

I'm just shaking my head at the same guys who have killed Rex for months now saying 8-8 is a good job.  Pointing to last years 4-12 record is ridiculous..  There's been a huge influx of talent and the team morale is way up.  They finally feel like their GM has their backs and is trying to field the best team they can. 

If I didn't see a 20 page thread every week of why Rex sucks I wouldn't bother to mention it. 

 

Team morale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I dont know why this comes as a surprise.  I just dont even get involved anymore in those debates because they're so ridiculous.  Besides, he's gone, so who cares?  

Jets fans have a strange obsession with former players and coaches. It's not exclusive to Rex by any means.

Team morale is way up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That start was a long time ago. They lost Enunwa, and everything just unraveled. :)

But I honestly think that missing the playoffs wouldn't be a bad thing at all. Herm, Mangini, and Rex all went to the playoffs their first year, and may've led to some unjustified overconfidence (I'd say Mangini was biggest sufferer here, but I digress... ). Bowles' personality doesn't seem to lend itself to that sort of overconfidence, or false sense of accomplishment, but I don't mind the idea of them coming into next year hungry and angry that they missed the post season after that start. 

People tend to overlook the point that you make here.

In Rex's case, making the playoffs and the truly wonderful playoff run masked the fact that the team didn't play well on offense and led the team to put money on the defense at the expense of acquiring the key offensive support that was needed to win it all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not even talking about what he said - of course he's not going to paint them and himself into a corner. 

I'm just shaking my head at the same guys who have killed Rex for months now saying 8-8 is a good job.  Pointing to last years 4-12 record is ridiculous..  There's been a huge influx of talent and the team morale is way up.  They finally feel like their GM has their backs and is trying to field the best team they can. 

If I didn't see a 20 page thread every week of why Rex sucks I wouldn't bother to mention it. 

 

LOL, the bell cow argument for rex over the last few years are his glorious 8-8 years in which his fans say he coached like a demon.  Or the old, rex only had so many losing seasons, using the old 8-8 as a huge accomplishment.  You Rexites really need to get on the same page instead of destroying each others flimsy arguments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We have made some real boneheaded plays that cost our team 2 games. those boneheaded plays were made by players not the coach and not the GM . While I have been some what critical of Bowles I can't blame him for every loss. This team could easily be 8-1 or 7-2 the only game we really got hammered was the Oakland game the other 3 losses were all winnable . Once these players get past that and get the confidence they need to make winning more consistent this team should be fine. In this coming off season you will see players shipped out of here and holes filled and while I still hope for the playoffs this year I'm not betting on it. Once we start building this roster with better depth you might also see a big turn around on ST which at this stage might very well lose us a few more games. Drops, untimely stupid fumbles, and horrid ST play needs to stop before this team can be taken seriously

People can't see what you are saying...

There is a big difference between poor player execution and poor game design (which is on the coach) and the fact that people can't see the distinction tells you all you need to know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, the bell cow argument for rex over the last few years are his glorious 8-8 years in which his fans say he coached like a demon.  Or the old, rex only had so many losing seasons, using the old 8-8 as a huge accomplishment.  You Rexites really need to get on the same page instead of destroying each others flimsy arguments.

Pacwned

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LOL, the bell cow argument for rex over the last few years are his glorious 8-8 years in which his fans say he coached like a demon.  Or the old, rex only had so many losing seasons, using the old 8-8 as a huge accomplishment.  You Rexites really need to get on the same page instead of destroying each others flimsy arguments.

no the big accomplishment was a greater run than anything you've ever seen in your life as a Jets fan with the back to back AFCECG.

the 8-8 was just another huge accomplishment given the woefully undermanned team Idzik fielded.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

no the big accomplishment was a greater run than anything you've ever seen in your life as a Jets fan with the back to back AFCECG.

the 8-8 was just another huge accomplishment given the woefully undermanned team Idzik fielded.

Followed by 4 years of completely non-competitive football under 2 different GM's.  But yeah, it was all Idzik's fault.  Those 2 trophy-less seasons were totally worth the roster destruction that followed.  Totally.

Think bigger.  Being a perennial contender is better than having a nice 2-year window followed by awfulness.  The former is what we're aiming for with this regime, finally.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Disagree.  Nobody really knows what they have during the preseason when you've made as much change as the Jets did this offseason.  They significantly improved their roster, significantly.  Like, not the same team at all.   Expectations change and rightfully so when you're sitting at 4-1 and looked as good as the Jets did early in the season.  This isnt the same team as last year.  That comparison doesnt hold any weight at all with me.

Does your theory remain if the Jets were 8-1 right now?  Should we not expect the playoffs at that point because nobody expected it in the preseason? 

 

The other thing I'd add is they were better than 4-12, even if still a bad, losing team. One of our losses our HC spitefully tanked the offense on purpose (Miami game #1) and we still only narrowly lost. They also did beat Chicago and the refs reversed it on what ended up being the 2 most important, game-deciding plays of the game.

6-10 would still suck, even had they ended in Jets wins, but it's not as impressive a "turnaround" this year for the good parts of that team to carry over, with an insanely expensive new secondary in place of the weakest (non-QB) unit on the team, add a higher-end WR to a now-healthy Decker, change the QB for the better, then walk into a stupid-easy schedule, and finish 8-8. IMO that would be a failure.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Was Rex not the coach during the most successful stretch you've ever seen in your life?  That's not admissible?

Was Rex not also the coach during a 4-year, 18-30 stretch in which we were outscored by at least 90 points overall each year?  And we're supposed to "appreciate" what he did?

2 years of being blue-balled followed by 4 years of some of the worst football we've seen since Kotite.  Meaning that for the majority of his tenure, Rex was terrible at his job.  Herm and Mangini never had a stretch that bad.  All were loser coaches.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Funny but the level of hypocrisy is astounding.  How can someone destroy Rex for what he did with Idziks roster and give Maccagnan and Bowles a pat on the back for 8-8.  There isn't a unit on the field that isn't vastly improved from anything Rex had.

all last year the fanbase was in outrage about what a terrible job Rex did here

after he sweeps the Jets we should revisit that. I never thought Rex did such a bad job. The expectations on this team are wildly unrealistic and firing the coach every 5 years doesn't change the fact that the Jets are in the division with a 1st ballot HOF QB (who also happens to cheat wildly)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...