Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I watched Hard Knocks, nothing I saw would lend to Rex being the sole decision maker for the entire organization. If that was the case, you dont think he would have conceded to Revis's demand and avoided an entire preseason hold out? Come'on, I know you hate Rex but this is not 100% fact and I dont think you can prove it ever was. In the annals of football, Hard Knocks is pretty much the definitive fact checker and sole source of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 There is very little doubt that Rex Ryan had major influence over Tanny. There is very little doubt he had much less influence over Idzik. There is very little doubt that he has major influence over another door mat in Whalley. The Jets went for it with some of their moves trading picks in the Tanny era and for that I place not a lot of blame , however that regime also treated later round picks like garbage, making under valued trades and doing utterly ridiculous things like giving Rex his one pick. They went too far in the Tanny era and had so few picks that virtually all of their picks had to work out for the moves to be justified and we all know that many did not. We then had the short Idzik era in which he actually did exactly the right thing, accumulate as many picks as possible to try and restock an older team with almost no depth with quantity, something successful teams like the Ravens and Packers do almost each year. Unfortunately the actual scouting under Idzik and picks were totally horrendous to the point of being worse than any of the fan schleps like me that hang out in the draft forum. We now have an actual talent evaluator as GM, not a door mat and not a financial guy. To get the full benefit of Mac we need to find a way to get more picks for the next few years. We won't be getting comp picks this season so hopefully we can make a trade or two to get more picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I watched Hard Knocks, nothing I saw would lend to Rex being the sole decision maker for the entire organization. If that was the case, you dont think he would have conceded to Revis's demand and avoided an entire preseason hold out? Come'on, I know you hate Rex but this is not 100% fact and I dont think you can prove it ever was. Hard Knocks showed REX being somewhat dominant in the process and Tanny less dominant. It also showed it was tannys job to reign in Rex's "wants" to meet a budget. Thats how I saw the Revis thing. Rex thought he had a QB in Sanchez (i.e. the tattoo). The HOLMES captaincy and release of Cotch, Braylon etc... all appear to , at a minimum, reek of REX input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southparkcpa Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 There is very little doubt that Rex Ryan had major influence over Tanny. There is very little doubt he had much less influence over Idzik. There is very little doubt that he has major influence over another door mat in Whalley. The Jets went for it with some of their moves trading picks in the Tanny era and for that I place not a lot of blame , however that regime also treated later round picks like garbage, making under valued trades and doing utterly ridiculous things like giving Rex his one pick. They went too far in the Tanny era and had so few picks that virtually all of their picks had to work out for the moves to be justified and we all know that many did not. We then had the short Idzik era in which he actually did exactly the right thing, accumulate as many picks as possible to try and restock and older team with almost no depth with quantity, something successful teams like the Ravens and Packers do almost each year. Unfortunately the actual scouting under Idzik and picks were totally horrendous to the point of being worse than any of the fan schleps like me that hang out in the draft forum. We now have an actual talent evaluator as GM, not a door mat and not a financial guy. To get the full benefit of Mac we need to find a way to get more picks for the next few years. We won't be getting comp picks this season so hopefully we can make a trade or two to get more picks. I stated this exact thing on the old JI and got crushed by so called interweb experts. We mortgaged the future and lost and THEN had basically 4 years of poor drafts under REX Tanny, Rex Idzik. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 What? Alright man. I'll take your word for it. lol trust meeee! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Hard Knocks showed REX being somewhat dominant in the process and Tanny less dominant. It also showed it was tannys job to reign in Rex's "wants" to meet a budget. Thats how I saw the Revis thing. Rex thought he had a QB in Sanchez (i.e. the tattoo). The HOLMES captaincy and release of Cotch, Braylon etc... all appear to , at a minimum, reek of REX input. I didnt see any of that but whatevs. I dont really care, I just thought Bowlesmovement had some article or something I missed over the year supporting his 100% claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I didnt see any of that but whatevs. I dont really care, I just thought Bowlesmovement had some article or something I missed over the year supporting his 100% claim. Ryan gave Idzik's first draft an A+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I didnt see any of that but whatevs. I dont really care, I just thought Bowlesmovement had some article or something I missed over the year supporting his 100% claim. Yeah, I definitely see your point. And honestly, if I loved Rex as much as you and some other Jet fans, I would not believe someone saying what I am saying either without proof, so its all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ryan gave Idzik's first draft an A+ He also said in the pre season of 14 how excited he was about the 14 team. I am paraphrasing here, but he said people are not going to want to play the Jets this year, I won't go on a limb and make any SB predictions, but this is the team I have always wanted to coach, this is a dangerous team. I looked for the quote, but could not find it, it may have been a video clip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Yeah, I definitely see your point. And honestly, if I loved Rex as much as you and some other Jet fans, I would not believe someone saying what I am saying either without proof, so its all good. My love for you >>>>>>>>>>>>> My love for Rex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 The real point of the story is that the Jets will continue to stink for a few more years because of all those horrible drafts, regardless of who is at fault. Mac really has his work cut out. From what I read the budget allocated for scouting has increased exponentially. I have faith our next few drafts are going to be better than we've seen in a long time. Hogan and Heimerdinger were by all accounts great hires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 trust meeee! I honestly don't care whether you believe me or not, and I recognize the love affair you and others have with Rex, so I don't blame you for not believing me without proof, so its all good. I still would love to hear you answer my question I posed for you regarding going after Namdi when you had to take away your young QB's WR's and Oline to do so, already having Revis and a very good defense, and whether that was a good decision? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 From what I read the budget allocated for scouting has increased exponentially. I have faith our next few drafts are going to be better than we've seen in a long time. Hogan and Heimerdinger were by all accounts great hires. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 My love for you >>>>>>>>>>>>> My love for Rex. I am blushing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ryan gave Idzik's first draft an A+ This post continues your hypocritical tradition. Rex is all bluster and you can't believe what he says AND Did you see what Rex said? He has to be stupid to believe that. Rex talks up every player. We are the Jets, so more often than not he is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I honestly don't care whether you believe me or not, and I recognize the love affair you and others have with Rex, so I don't blame you for not believing me without proof, so its all good. I still would love to hear you answer my question I posed for you regarding going after Namdi when you had to take away your young QB's WR's and Oline to do so, already having Revis and a very good defense, and whether that was a good decision? I am not going to fight you about your certainty, but what young QBs and O-linemen? Kellen Clemens, Braylon Edwards and Damien Woody? What young QB have they had that was worth keeping since 1968? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I don't think this franchise was ever worse than when Parcells had two drafts with 10+ picks and if not for grabbing Fabini in the 4th and Jason Ferguson in the 7th round, would have been somewhere in the neighborhood of 2-25 in those drafts. If a HOF HC can't get more than two players with 20+ picks, it's amazing that Rex was able to net us Richardson, Wilkerson, Powell, Kerley and Pryor with the jury still out on guys like Reilly, Eununwa, Amaro, McDougle, Milliner, Winters and Antonio Allen. Parcells awful personnel management set the Jets up for a decade, making even Herm and Bradway look competent for awhile. The Rex Era was such a toilet of roster management that three of the top eight players on the roster were drafted by Eric Mangini a decade ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I didnt see any of that but whatevs. I dont really care, I just thought Bowlesmovement had some article or something I missed over the year supporting his 100% claim. Go read the chapter on the draft from Collision Low Crossers where Rex turns the whole process into him using the month leading up to the draft to play Tinder with the franchise's picks. Otherwise, shut your pie-hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whodeawhodat Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Go read the chapter on the draft from Collision Low Crossers where Rex turns the whole process into him using the month leading up to the draft to play Tinder with the franchise's picks. Otherwise, shut your pie-hole. hey hey hey.... at least with the draft they dont show pics from 10 years ago.... From what I read the budget allocated for scouting has increased exponentially. I have faith our next few drafts are going to be better than we've seen in a long time. Hogan and Heimerdinger were by all accounts great hires. GAWD, I hope so... sucks we will have to wait 4 years to find out.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFJF Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Parcells awful personnel management set the Jets up for a decade, making even Herm and Bradway look competent for awhile. The Rex Era was such a toilet of roster management that three of the top eight players on the roster were drafted by Eric Mangini a decade ago. You're missing the point of my post. I was saying that if a HOF HC/personnel genius/franchise savior goes 2-23 in choosing players at any point in time, I would expect a guy like Rex, who knows nothing about the game of football in any capacity whatsoever, to go 0-23 every single time. It's a miracle that Rex was able to draft Sheldon, Pryor, Mo Wilk, Kerley, Powell, Slauson and the "unknowns" like Reilly, Enunwa, Amaro, McDougle, Dozier, Milliner, Winters, Bohannon and Allen. Hell, even Mark Sanchez, Demario Davis, and Shonn Greene were better than dozens of the players Tuna drafted. I think that when you talk about the Jets terrible draft history, it goes back wayyyyy earlier than 2009. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 You're missing the point of my post. I was saying that if a HOF HC/personnel genius/franchise savior goes 2-23 in choosing players at any point in time, I would expect a guy like Rex, who knows nothing about the game of football in any capacity whatsoever, to go 0-23 every single time. It's a miracle that Rex was able to draft Sheldon, Pryor, Mo Wilk, Kerley, Powell, Slauson and the "unknowns" like Reilly, Enunwa, Amaro, McDougle, Dozier, Milliner, Winters, Bohannon and Allen. Hell, even Mark Sanchez, Demario Davis, and Shonn Greene were better than dozens of the players Tuna drafted. I think that when you talk about the Jets terrible draft history, it goes back wayyyyy earlier than 2009. This was a very cheeky retort and I enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Also tough that many of those years had very limited amount of pics for us That's the advantage of trading up all the time.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Go read the chapter on the draft from Collision Low Crossers where Rex turns the whole process into him using the month leading up to the draft to play Tinder with the franchise's picks. Otherwise, shut your pie-hole. Totally an objective read... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I am not going to fight you about your certainty, but what young QBs and O-linemen? Kellen Clemens, Braylon Edwards and Damien Woody? What young QB have they had that was worth keeping since 1968? Im not sure what you are talking about. I said that in 2011, Rex let Edwards go, Cotchery go, and let his Oline deterorate so that he could go after Namdi, and I I asked if that was a good decision for your young QB, who was Sanchez at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Totally an objective read... Very good point. After all, anything that puts Rex in anything other than a positive light, must be non objective. After all, we are talking about the greatest 51-55 HC of all time, who if not sabotaged by GM's, OC's, HC's, Owners, WR's, CB's, fans, media members, elfs, the easter bunny, and I am sure a few more people I am missing, would have won at least 3 SB's by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heights212 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Sure wish he hadn't hit one out of the park this year with Darby. Karlos Williams, too. But it's no surprise that the hits are centered around defense and the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Im not sure what you are talking about. I said that in 2011, Rex let Edwards go, Cotchery go, and let his Oline deterorate so that he could go after Namdi, and I I asked if that was a good decision for your young QB, who was Sanchez at the time. I apologize, I misread your post. You said take away "your young QB's WRs and OLine," I thought you said take away "your young QBs, WRs and OLine." I don't think they lost any decent young players. I agree the roster got worse, but I don't think the pursuit of Asomugha had much to do with it. They signed Burress who did more than Edwards from 2011 on. He saved Sanchez in the red zone plenty. Woody retired and I think they thought he was coming back and thought (woefully mistaken) Hunter could continue to fill in capably the way he did down the stretch in 2010 or Ducasse could take over . That was literally the only change on the line. The swap of Cotchery for Mason was a decided downgrade, but I think the Mason/Burress issue was more an attitude problem (which I fully blame on Rex) rather than a talent issue. That team was sitting at 8-5 on a three game win streak when they imploded against the Eagles and then rolled up and died after the Cruz 99 yarder the next week. I don't blame Rex much for the loss of talent, but the team lost/lacked character and that is on him. Both because the signed and accepted malcontents and because Rex did not keep them in line. One or two added to a team of choir boys works well, but eventually the inmates run the asylum. The contract extension they gave the young QB the following year, after being rebuffed by Manning, had a least as much to do with the talent degradation as courting Asomugha IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowlesMovement Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 I apologize, I misread your post. You said take away your young QB's WRs and OLine, I thought you said take away your young QB, WRs and OLine. I don't think they lost any decent young players. I agree the roster got worse, but I don't think the pursuit of Asomugha had much to do with it. They signed Burress who did more than Edwards from 2011 on. Woody retired and I think they thought he was coming back and were (woefully mistaken) convinced Hunter could continue to fill in capably the way he did down the stretch in 2010. That was literally the only change on the line. The swap of Cotchery for Mason was a decided downgrade, but I think the Mason/Burress issue was more an attitude problem (which I fully blame on Rex) rather than a talent issue. That team was sitting at 8-5 on a three game win streak when they imploded against the Eagles and then rolled up and died after the Cruz 99 yarder the next week. I don't blame Rex much for the loss of talent, but the team lost/lacked character and that is on him. Both because the signed and accepted malcontents and because Rex did not keep them in line. One or two added to a team of choir boys works well, but eventually the inmates run the asylum. The contract extension they gave the young QB the following year, after being rebuffed by Manning, had much more to do with the talent degradation than Asomugha IMO. No worries, its all good in the hood. I agree, no young players, but the decisions that were made for the 2011 season took away any chance Sanchez might have had at a career, which I will be first to say, was probably not a high chance anyway. Burress was absolutely awful except in the red zone, which had importance if you got there, but he got so little separation, that when combined with a bad right side of the line, was a disaster. No saying Edwards would have gotten the injury he suffered had he stayed here, impossible to know. I actually think it did have everything to do with going after Asomugha. They said they did not have enough money to sign both Edwards and Holmes, so they signed Holmes, yet still had enough to make a very serious run at Asomugha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Very good point. After all, anything that puts Rex in anything other than a positive light, must be non objective. After all, we are talking about the greatest 51-55 HC of all time, who if not sabotaged by GM's, OC's, HC's, Owners, WR's, CB's, fans, media members, elfs, the easter bunny, and I am sure a few more people I am missing, would have won at least 3 SB's by now. He's gone. He cant hurt you anymore. He's off somewhere else ruining another illustrious franchise like the Jets. Just let him go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Totally an objective read... The guy was a reporter embedding himself with the team, hoping to chronicle a Jet Super Bowl run. Instead he witnessed a dumpster fire. This wasn't Rich Cimini being sent in there. It was just some guy who can write. And he actually liked basically everyone in that organization. If anything he was rooting for the Jets. They wouldn't have let him do that if they didn't think he'd be fair in his reporting. I get it, he's gone and you totally don't care about him. Read the book anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 This post continues your hypocritical tradition. Rex is all bluster and you can't believe what he says AND Did you see what Rex said? He has to be stupid to believe that. Rex talks up every player. We are the Jets, so more often than not he is wrong. I hardly ever critique Ryan on the stupid things he says-That is an expectation. It is as predictable as the sun coming up. That would be too easy. I critique Ryan on the stupid things he does. Where he does not have the excuse of his filter being off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 For too many years the Jets have been subjected to GM's that "reach" for talent and a HC that was of no help in personnel decisions. Mike Tannenbaum almost singlehandedly set this franchise back 10 years with his reaches for Vlad Ducasse, Kyle Wilson, Stephen Hill, Quentin Coples and many others. Idzik was even worse, picking injury prone players like Milliner and McDougle. Mac has his work cut out for him for sure cleaning up this mess. The Jets have no players in that golden bracket of being a four year player with experience and upside. All our best players are 30 or older. It may take a long time to get this ship straightened out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ex-Rex Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Parcells awful personnel management set the Jets up for a decade, making even Herm and Bradway look competent for awhile. The Rex Era was such a toilet of roster management that three of the top eight players on the roster were drafted by Eric Mangini a decade ago. The worst mistake made by a Jets GM in HISTORY was Parcells not taking Peyton Manning after his junior season at UT when Manning practically begged him to take him. Parcells traded the top pick and we ended up with James Farrior who played most of his career in Pittsburgh, making Herm Edwards look dumb for trading him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 Ryan gave Idzik's first draft an A+ I hardly ever critique Ryan on the stupid things he says-That is an expectation. It is as predictable as the sun coming up. That would be too easy. I critique Ryan on the stupid things he does. Where he does not have the excuse of his filter being off. You did it in the post above. You've done it before and you will do it again. Rex loved Idzik's draft so much that he had to be told to start Geno. Kissing your bosses ass when your job in question is as old as the hills and assuredly what Rex was doing there. Right or wrong. I don't see where he actually did anything. The guy was a reporter embedding himself with the team, hoping to chronicle a Jet Super Bowl run. Instead he witnessed a dumpster fire. This wasn't Rich Cimini being sent in there. It was just some guy who can write. And he actually liked basically everyone in that organization. If anything he was rooting for the Jets. They wouldn't have let him do that if they didn't think he'd be fair in his reporting. I get it, he's gone and you totally don't care about him. Read the book anyways. I have to finish it. I think it will just make me mad, but the guy didn't know much about football. That might make the book that much better from the perspective you guys talk about, but he was also susceptible to certain people's quotes. Seems like Pettine got his ear plenty. Enough that people thought he was the brains and the adult. Doesn't seem that way from what is going on in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Dierking Posted November 25, 2015 Share Posted November 25, 2015 You're missing the point of my post. I was saying that if a HOF HC/personnel genius/franchise savior goes 2-23 in choosing players at any point in time, I would expect a guy like Rex, who knows nothing about the game of football in any capacity whatsoever, to go 0-23 every single time. It's a miracle that Rex was able to draft Sheldon, Pryor, Mo Wilk, Kerley, Powell, Slauson and the "unknowns" like Reilly, Enunwa, Amaro, McDougle, Dozier, Milliner, Winters, Bohannon and Allen. Hell, even Mark Sanchez, Demario Davis, and Shonn Greene were better than dozens of the players Tuna drafted. I think that when you talk about the Jets terrible draft history, it goes back wayyyyy earlier than 2009. When your 4th and 5th players to come out flying support of draft greatness are Powell and Slauson, you may want to re-thgink your position. Good God, where would the Jets be without the drafting brilliance of picking Powell and Slauson. And NO, Sanchez, Davis and Greene WERE NOT better than DOZENS of Tuna's picks. I will give you picks at the same position that were better-Pennington, Farrior and Leon Washington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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