Will People Ever Learn???

[KRL]

Yes, Mariota has looked good through TWELVE games of his FIRST SEASON.  But
can we stop annointing him as a franchise QB, have people not learned from
recent history that QB's are judged over MULTIPLE years.  Why do people refuse
to look at recent history:

Griffin
Kaepernick

Both of those players had big time success early on and collapsed after DC's
went to school on them.  And now both of them are on the scrap heap

[shawn306]

If Winston keeps his head on straight he will be the better QB.

Lovie Smith is a damn good coach and you can already see the Bucs starting to turn things around down there.

I don't think either one will ever reach the Rivers, Eli Manning, Romo levels, but I think if I had to pick one that could reach it it would be Winston.

 

[JETSfan4life_1]

Bryce Petty will be a better QB  JETS jets jets jets

[faba]

We are in the era of instant gratification in sports and all parts of life- sad but true

[#27TheDominator]

We are in the era of instant gratification in sports and all parts of life- sad but true

You don't like to be gratified?  How did you become a mod?

[faba]

You don't like to be gratified?  How did you become a mod?

Depends on who is doing it- hah

[BroadwayJets]

If Winston keeps his head on straight he will be the better QB.

Lovie Smith is a damn good coach and you can already see the Bucs starting to turn things around down there.

I don't think either one will ever reach the Rivers, Eli Manning, Romo levels, but I think if I had to pick one that could reach it it would be Winston.

 

I live in Tampa and unfortunately I'm forced to watch EVERY Bucs game. Jameis' development has been outstanding. He's playing at an incredible level for a rookie QB. I'll put him above Rivers by next season. His success is not a fluke.

[southparkcpa]

I live in Tampa and unfortunately I'm forced to watch EVERY Bucs game. Jameis' development has been outstanding. He's playing at an incredible level for a rookie QB. I'll put him above Rivers by next season. His success is not a fluke.

Ttend to agree.  I spend quite a bit of time in Tampa, have friends and family there.

You ever go to the Tampa Bay JETS club?

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

You can never tell within the first few years. You can have a guy look like a beast his first year and flame out immediately after. You can have a guy look bad his first couple years but really turn it on during the back end of his rookie deal. 

 

Some expect every rookie to come in and either be solid contributor or a probowler...if not then they're a bust. You can have rookies who look like two totally different players in their rookie year. 

Look at Todd Gurley for example. Take a look at his first 5 games, then look at his last 5 games. The first 5 games this rookie was looking like he was seriously going to not only be the ROTY but actually be in the conversation for MVP of the league. Then the next 5 games dude completely fell of the map. So who what is it? Is he a MVP-type talent like what his first 5 games would suggest or is he a bust like what his last 5 games would suggest to some? 

 

One thing I will say though, im surprised that I havent seen one "Devin Smith is a bust" thread this year. 

[PFSIKH]

Yes, Mariota has looked good through TWELVE games of his FIRST SEASON.  But
can we stop annointing him as a franchise QB, have people not learned from
recent history that QB's are judged over MULTIPLE years.  Why do people refuse
to look at recent history:

Griffin
Kaepernick

Both of those players had big time success early on and collapsed after DC's
went to school on them.  And now both of them are on the scrap heap

I think you are correct in your point of a premature anointing of Mariota as a franchise QB. 

What I will disagree on is your comparison with Griffin and Kap.  One, he is a better passer then Kap will ever be.  And probably due to design, in order to keep him healthy, while using his 87 yard run last week as an example shows he is athletic enough to do it, he only has 30 rushes so far this year.

Mariota is going to be good.  How good remains to be seen.

If Winston keeps his head on straight he will be the better QB.

Lovie Smith is a damn good coach and you can already see the Bucs starting to turn things around down there.

I don't think either one will ever reach the Rivers, Eli Manning, Romo levels, but I think if I had to pick one that could reach it it would be Winston.

I disagree.

That group is clearly not in the top echelon of Brady, Rodgers or a healthy Brees.  It is not like these uys do not have warts.

While it is early to judge both, they have shown glimpses as why they were drafted.  I would agree Winston is going to be the better pure passer in my limited exposure in watching him play.  I could see him morphing into a Favresque type of QB with high risk and reward on any given play.  ANd as much as Cam and Brady (recently) are getting credit for doing well with little to no weapons, outside of Delani Walker, who would you want from the Titans skill positions?  Green-Beckham is finally coming around.  Again, he is going to be good.

 

[TheMagicRat]

Josh Freeman did nothing his rookie year and then was an All-Pro his second year. After his second year, he sucked and is now out of the league.

When looking at athletes, there are many different aspects that can determine how an player develops (coaching changes, personnel, national media attention, etc.). Annotating any athlete "the next franchise player" after one or even two seasons is silly. 

[Jet Nut]

Yes, Mariota has looked good through TWELVE games of his FIRST SEASON.  But
can we stop annointing him as a franchise QB, have people not learned from
recent history that QB's are judged over MULTIPLE years.  Why do people refuse
to look at recent history:

Griffin
Kaepernick

Both of those players had big time success early on and collapsed after DC's
went to school on them.  And now both of them are on the scrap heap

Don't think anyone, outside of some fans, have anointed anyone a franchise QB yet.  

I also don't think Griffins or Kaeps collapse has much to do with defenses schooling anyone.  Griffin had a series of injuries that have forced him to play a different game.

Keap is nore difficult to figure given how many players and weapons he's lost along with his coach and OC.  Throw in a new regime that wants him to fit their schemes and not the other way around.  

[Green DNA]

One thing I will say though, im surprised that I havent seen one "Devin Smith is a bust" thread this year. 

Have you looked next to the multiple "Calvin Pryor is a Bust" threads from last year?  

[Joe W. Namath]

You used 2 really bad examples.  RG3 was on his way to being great until a knee injury derailed his career.

Kaep success hinged on the niners defense and an offense that protected his weakeness.  

Mariota looks pretty good in year one.  Why wouldnt you be excited if u were a titans fan?

[shawn306]

I think you are correct in your point of a premature anointing of Mariota as a franchise QB. 

What I will disagree on is your comparison with Griffin and Kap.  One, he is a better passer then Kap will ever be.  And probably due to design, in order to keep him healthy, while using his 87 yard run last week as an example shows he is athletic enough to do it, he only has 30 rushes so far this year.

Mariota is going to be good.  How good remains to be seen.

I disagree.

That group is clearly not in the top echelon of Brady, Rodgers or a healthy Brees.  It is not like these uys do not have warts.

While it is early to judge both, they have shown glimpses as why they were drafted.  I would agree Winston is going to be the better pure passer in my limited exposure in watching him play.  I could see him morphing into a Favresque type of QB with high risk and reward on any given play.  ANd as much as Cam and Brady (recently) are getting credit for doing well with little to no weapons, outside of Delani Walker, who would you want from the Titans skill positions?  Green-Beckham is finally coming around.  Again, he is going to be good.

 

That is sort of the point though.

For someone to come in and expect a QB to reach the Brady, Manning, Rogers, Brees levels is a bit much.Those guys are first ballot no question asked HOF'er that have played the game at a different level than the others. To me if they reach that level that is gravy on top.

I think QB's like Mariota you are going to have be patient with while they learn how to become a pocket passer and build a team around him. the orginal poster brought up RGIII and Kapernick as failures but I could counter with Cam and Russell Wilson who have been able to make the swtich.

The one thing you CANNOT do though is give up on a guy like that after like two years unless he is a total tool. I wouldn't mind the Jets picking up a guy like Kapernick. The guy can run and he absolutely can throw the football. He has to learn though that in order to take that next step you has to become the pocket passer that thinks first about throwing the ball rather than taking off and running at the first sign of trouble.

Considering the state of the 49'ers and what they went through in the off season I was stunned that they IR'd for the season. To me this year was the perfect time to start rebuilding that team and letting Kapernick learn the pro passing game. Guess I was wrong.

 

 

[whodeawhodat]

I live in Tampa and unfortunately I'm forced to watch EVERY Bucs game. Jameis' development has been outstanding. He's playing at an incredible level for a rookie QB. I'll put him above Rivers by next season. His success is not a fluke.

Ttend to agree.  I spend quite a bit of time in Tampa, have friends and family there.

You ever go to the Tampa Bay JETS club?

 

 

I live in the Tampa area as well.  Been to 1 game at the jets club earlier this year.  Very good time with around 80 Jets fans at Peabody's in New Tampa.

[rillo]

All that matter is the jets kick their ass on Sunday. The kid gets rattled after a few hits. Hit him early and often.

[Beerfish]

They both look like good picks at this time, from the evidence we have to this point you have top say they were the right pick and give the team credit.

I'll say one thing, with our glacial like speed at linebacker and our weak tackling secondary if Mariota gets past our Dline very often he's going to run for 150 yards on us.

[LockeJET]

Ttend to agree.  I spend quite a bit of time in Tampa, have friends and family there.

You ever go to the Tampa Bay JETS club?

 

 

I live in Spring Hill. Like 25 minutes north of Tampa.. I checked this place out for the first time this past Sunday. It was pretty cool!! I really enjoy watching at home but I'm very superstitious when it comes to the Jets. Might have to go back on Sunday..

[bitonti]

Mariota is a professional, that's why he's being anointed. Just listen to him mic'ed up last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSU0WjjoIrg

 

this isn't a Vince Young situation 

 

[Snell41]

You can never tell within the first few years. You can have a guy look like a beast his first year and flame out immediately after. You can have a guy look bad his first couple years but really turn it on during the back end of his rookie deal. 

 

Some expect every rookie to come in and either be solid contributor or a probowler...if not then they're a bust. You can have rookies who look like two totally different players in their rookie year. 

Look at Todd Gurley for example. Take a look at his first 5 games, then look at his last 5 games. The first 5 games this rookie was looking like he was seriously going to not only be the ROTY but actually be in the conversation for MVP of the league. Then the next 5 games dude completely fell of the map. So who what is it? Is he a MVP-type talent like what his first 5 games would suggest or is he a bust like what his last 5 games would suggest to some? 

 

One thing I will say though, im surprised that I havent seen one "Devin Smith is a bust" thread this year. 

I agree, it totally takes some guys YEEEEAAAARS to win more than 6 games!

[House Jet]

Mariota is a professional, that's why he's being anointed. Just listen to him mic'ed up last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSU0WjjoIrg

 

this isn't a Vince Young situation 

 

Can't hep but like this guy.. Besides kicking his ass this week hope everything works out for him.

[BroadwayJets]

Ttend to agree.  I spend quite a bit of time in Tampa, have friends and family there.

You ever go to the Tampa Bay JETS club?

 

 

 

I live in the Tampa area as well.  Been to 1 game at the jets club earlier this year.  Very good time with around 80 Jets fans at Peabody's in New Tampa.

I believe TampaJet told me about that place last year, not sure if it was the same one. By USF? If so, I'm more by the airport, West Shore area. Moving back to New York before Christmas actually.

[Snell41]

You used 2 really bad examples.  RG3 was on his way to being great until a knee injury derailed his career.

Kaep success hinged on the niners defense and an offense that protected his weakeness.  

Mariota looks pretty good in year one.  Why wouldnt you be excited if u were a titans fan?

Totally disagree with you there.  He had decent playmakers when he was successful.  When it comes to physical tools Kaep may be the most talented guy in the business. I remember the NFL championship game he was throwing lasers to needlepoint targets.  And he ran the ball with such ease.  It was scary how talented he is.  The problem, in my humble opinion, is between his ears along with the lack of talent around him.  After he started gaining some success you saw him popping up in photos partying a lot, doing shots off girls belly buttons, beats commercials, the works.  I really think he let it all go to his head and I don't think he put the work that needed to be put in.  Add that to the fact he now has zero running game, zero receivers, and an aging TE along with a sketchy OL and you see the huge drop in success.  My personal opinion is if Kaep has a change of scene AND rededicates himself to being a true student of the game he can be a great QB. 

[Snell41]

And as for Mariota, I felt he was going to be a glorious bust in the NFL.  I just didn't think he has the tools to really break down a D and make the right reads.  I haven't watched to see "how" he is having success, but I'll give credit he's doing much better than I thought he would.  With that said if TEN is running simple one read then run play designs for him I stand by my statement that he's not going to be long for the league. 

[maury77]

Yes, Mariota has looked good through TWELVE games of his FIRST SEASON.  But
can we stop annointing him as a franchise QB, have people not learned from
recent history that QB's are judged over MULTIPLE years.  Why do people refuse
to look at recent history:

Griffin
Kaepernick

Both of those players had big time success early on and collapsed after DC's
went to school on them.  And now both of them are on the scrap heap

I'd like to see how Mariota responds to defenses crowding the middle of the field and forcing him to win throwing deep or to the sidelines. 

[#27TheDominator]

Totally disagree with you there.  He had decent playmakers when he was successful.  When it comes to physical tools Kaep may be the most talented guy in the business. I remember the NFL championship game he was throwing lasers to needlepoint targets.  And he ran the ball with such ease.  It was scary how talented he is.  The problem, in my humble opinion, is between his ears along with the lack of talent around him.  After he started gaining some success you saw him popping up in photos partying a lot, doing shots off girls belly buttons, beats commercials, the works.  I really think he let it all go to his head and I don't think he put the work that needed to be put in.  Add that to the fact he now has zero running game, zero receivers, and an aging TE along with a sketchy OL and you see the huge drop in success.  My personal opinion is if Kaep has a change of scene AND rededicates himself to being a true student of the game he can be a great QB. 

I'm not sure if I would determine Kaepernick's problem as being between the ears.  He has an amazing arm, but he seems more thrower than QB.  He never seemed to have any touch to me. Personally, I don't consider that a mental problem, though some might.  I thought I read he was going to fail the physical and have his $15M guaranteed, so the Niners probably would be stuck with him.  He would be an interesting guy to have in for a change of scenery, but like RGIII, this is probably the wrong place for it. 

[prime21]

I would like to give Kap a tryout but I don't believe he is a good fit for Gailey's system.

[Snell41]

I'm not sure if I would determine Kaepernick's problem as being between the ears.  He has an amazing arm, but he seems more thrower than QB.  He never seemed to have any touch to me. Personally, I don't consider that a mental problem, though some might.  I thought I read he was going to fail the physical and have his $15M guaranteed, so the Niners probably would be stuck with him.  He would be an interesting guy to have in for a change of scenery, but like RGIII, this is probably the wrong place for it. 

I think more so that's what I meant by "between the ears".  I don't think he's stupid, I think he has a lot to learn about how to play the position and I think he's one that needs to keep his head on straight.  I feel like his early success went right to his head, and I just don't think he really put the time in honing his craft.  I realize there's only one Peyton Manning wen it comes to studying the game, but Kaep IMO really needs to head that route mentally if he wants to succeed. 

[#27TheDominator]

I would like to give Kap a tryout but I don't believe he is a good fit for Gailey's system.

Anything Slash can do, he can do better.... he can do anything better than Slash.

Well.. maybe not anything.  

[jetscrazey]

The important thing will be to have a spy on Mariota every play.  Can't sell out on the pass rush, have to leave a guy lurking at the line of scrimmage so he can't take off

[flgreen]

Mariota is a professional, that's why he's being anointed. Just listen to him mic'ed up last week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSU0WjjoIrg

 

this isn't a Vince Young situation 

 

Yeah, kids a class act.

 

Just hope he spends a lot of time on his back Sunday.  

[#27TheDominator]

The important thing will be to have a spy on Mariota every play.  Can't sell out on the pass rush, have to leave a guy lurking at the line of scrimmage so he can't take off

This may be a week that the Jets style pass rush pays off.  The stud D-line has not paid many dividends in pass rush because it is more a slow march to the QB, not the freakish blast you get from speed rushers.  It should help to contain a guy like Mariota and keep him from using his legs.

[jetscrazey]

This may be a week that the Jets style pass rush pays off.  The stud D-line has not paid many dividends in pass rush because it is more a slow march to the QB, not the freakish blast you get from speed rushers.  It should help to contain a guy like Mariota and keep him from using his legs.

I think Bowles will use Sheldon's athleticism by having him fake the pass rush and then lurk at the line while Mo, Leo, Mauldin and a blitzer rush the QB.

[Clementi49]

You can never tell within the first few years. You can have a guy look like a beast his first year and flame out immediately after. You can have a guy look bad his first couple years but really turn it on during the back end of his rookie deal. 

 

Some expect every rookie to come in and either be solid contributor or a probowler...if not then they're a bust. You can have rookies who look like two totally different players in their rookie year. 

Look at Todd Gurley for example. Take a look at his first 5 games, then look at his last 5 games. The first 5 games this rookie was looking like he was seriously going to not only be the ROTY but actually be in the conversation for MVP of the league. Then the next 5 games dude completely fell of the map. So who what is it? Is he a MVP-type talent like what his first 5 games would suggest or is he a bust like what his last 5 games would suggest to some? 

 

One thing I will say though, im surprised that I havent seen one "Devin Smith is a bust" thread this year. 

And this exact reasoning is why you need to give Fitz his due. It took him 10 years but he finally developed ... #ButThatsNoneOfMyBusiness