question for the board

[Tinstar]

Would moving Nick Mangold  to RG prolong his career and strengthen or weaken the Jets offensive line moving forward

[GandWFan]

Weaken the line and not benefit Nick. 

[sirlancemehlot]

Nick is awesome, but he's willie-colon fat.  Not fast enough to pull in my opinion.  He's a better anchor than a moving piece.  On the plus side, Winters has been playing much better and he's no where near the penalty machine Colon is.  His improvement has made Willie expendable.  Of course there are those who will just shout "Winters Sucks!" because, well, he did.  But he's matured and completed his transition from Tackle to guard nicely and his increased reps have led to an enormous improvement over the season.

[TheMagicRat]

Nick is awesome, but he's willie-colon fat.  Not fast enough to pull in my opinion.  He's a better anchor than a moving piece.  On the plus side, Winters has been playing much better and he's no where near the penalty machine Colon is.  His improvement has made Willie expendable.  Of course there are those who will just shout "Winters Sucks!" because, well, he did.  But he's matured and completed his transition from Tackle to guard nicely and his increased reps have led to an enormous improvement over the season.

Better coaching has also helped. 

[SickJetFan]

The issue is RT....Winters suck at LG but better at RG since not so blind spot anymore.  Let's see what Mac does this offseason at RT.

[nycdan]

When Mangold isn't at Center the entire offense craps the bed.  Not sure if putting him at RG would mitigate that, but it worries me that we have no viable backup Center and I think we need to start developing one next season. 

[Jetlife33]

I think winters has translated well to RG, better than LG. The major question is at RT. Breno is really struggling so it seems. 

 

To answer your question, no, I think nick stays at center and a move to RG isn't in the books. 

[Jetsfan80]

The greater need will be at LT. Brick is still excellent in pass protection, but it has never been more difficult to identify and develop franchise LTs than it is right now in the NFL due to all the spread offenses in college not adequately preparing LTs for the pro game. We need to be proactive there.

We really should already have had a successor on the roster by now, really. Brick's decline will be steep as he loses the ability to handle speed rushers.

[Spoot-Face]

When Mangold isn't at Center the entire offense craps the bed.  Not sure if putting him at RG would mitigate that, but it worries me that we have no viable backup Center and I think we need to start developing one next season. 

^This. We don't have a viable replacement. The drop-off from Mangold to next man at C is a lot greater than the drop-off from Mangold to Winters at RG.

The greater need will be at LT. Bricks is still excellent in pass protection, but it has never been more difficult to identify and develop franchise LTs than it is right now in the NFL due to all the spread offenses in college not adequately preparing LTs for the pro game. We need to be proactive there.

We really should already have had a successor on the roster by now, really. Brick's decline will be steep as he loses the ability to handle speed rushers.

^And this. Mangold is going to anchor our line longer than Brick will be on it. Finding Brick's replacement should be a priority way before finding Nick's.

[Jetsfan80]

^This. We don't have a viable replacement. The drop-off from Mangold to next man at C is a lot greater than the drop-off from Mangold to Winters at RG.

^And this. Mangold is going to anchor our line longer than Brick will be on it. Finding Brick's replacement should be a priority way before finding Nick's.

Ideally we draft a LT prospect who can compete with Breno for the RT job initially, then make the switch to LT once we're ready to move on from Brick.

That would kill 2 birds with one stone: Addressing our short-term need at RT and long-term need at LT.

In Macc we trust.

[Spoot-Face]

Ideally we draft a LT prospect who can compete with Breno for the RT job initially, then make the switch to LT once we're ready to move on from Brick.

That would kill 2 birds with one stone: Addressing our short-term need at RT and long-term need at LT.

In Macc we trust.

That'd be wonderful, because I'd name RT as the 2nd biggest need on the line, only slightly ahead of RT.

Perhaps Breno could slide inside and take over for Winters, assuming Colon doesn't come back. For what it's worth, though, I thought Colon did a much better job this season--particularly with cutting down the penalties (though he had that one when he wasn't even in the damn game).

Carpenter is solid, and Mangold--while not the specimen that he once was--is still a great C. The day that Mangold is the weak link on the line is the day that we have the greatest O-Line in the NFL.

[Powpow]

The issue is RT....Winters suck at LG but better at RG since not so blind spot anymore.  Let's see what Mac does this offseason at RT.

Lets see what he does without any money. He spent most of it.  He was like a new bride who married into a rich family, inherited a fortune and blew it all in a full scoop.  Some heads will have to roll to open up cap space and it better not be Mo.

ChChChChanges.....Cro, Winters, Giacomini, Davis, Cumberland, DBrick, Ivory, Milliner, Pace, Ridley and lastly....drum roll.........Geno.   

[TuscanyTile2]

Lets see what he does without any money. He spent most of it.  He was like a new bride who married into a rich family, inherited a fortune and blew it all in a full scoop.  Some heads will have to roll to open up cap space and it better not be Mo.

ChChChChanges.....Cro, Winters, Giacomini, Davis, Cumberland, DBrick, Ivory, Milliner, Pace, Ridley and lastly....drum roll.........Geno.   

Didn't he have to spend most of that money anyway to get the team up to the cap minimum (or something along those lines)?

[Jetsfan80]

Lets see what he does without any money. He spent most of it.  He was like a new bride who married into a rich family, inherited a fortune and blew it all in a full scoop.  

Can't complain about the results though! Tannenbaum spent even more in Miami only to have a disastrous season and put his team in cap hell.

As for us, none of the contracts Macc signed players to are going to have a significant negative impact on us long-term outside of maybe Revis (who, as usual, has been worth every penny so far in his 2nd go-round with the Jets).  Restructure Brick's deal, cut Cro, Pace, and a few others and we free up something like $15M+ in cap space right there. There's your money for Mo.

[chirorob]

Didn't he have to spend most of that money anyway to get the team up to the cap minimum (or something along those lines)?

Yes, but never let logic get in the way of a good rant.

[Charlie Brown]

The greater need will be at LT. Brick is still excellent in pass protection, but it has never been more difficult to identify and develop franchise LTs than it is right now in the NFL due to all the spread offenses in college not adequately preparing LTs for the pro game. We need to be proactive there.

We really should already have had a successor on the roster by now, really. Brick's decline will be steep as he loses the ability to handle speed rushers.

Also think on this, D'Brick has NEVER missed a down in his NFL career, I MEAN EVER, except for a trick play Mangini once tried....  He is going to be real hard to replace

[Ghost]

Am I the only one that thinks Brick is playing pretty damn good? 

[Powpow]

Didn't he have to spend most of that money anyway to get the team up to the cap minimum (or something along those lines)?

some of it yes - but a lot of it going to Harris and Cro were just foolish

[sirlancemehlot]

Am I the only one that thinks Brick is playing pretty damn good? 

nope. He is playing pretty damned good. In pass pro. He's no Orlando pace vs the run however. But then he never was. I don't see the big dropoff others seem to find. 

[CrazyCarl40]

some of it yes - but a lot of it going to Harris and Cro were just foolish

Harris is the key of the defense and has been playing very well. Cro has been bad but it's basically a one year contract. So, yeah. Money well spent. 

If you want to criticize him the bad contract were given to Skrine. Too much money for a below average player who commits far too many penalties and is exposed on the outside. 

Also, to your other point, MM will have plenty of money to spend once he redoes Brick, Mangold, and cuts Breno, Cro and others. Don't forget cutting Coples saved a ton of money as well. 

[New York Mick]

Hopefully they concentrate on the oline this off season. 

[KRL]

Mangold hasn't lost anything at C so I wouldn't look to move him.  What
Maccagnan & Bowles need to do with the OLine is:

- Identify if Wesley Johnson is the C of the future

- Determine who the RG of the future is, Winters or Harrison

- Clean up our OT situation.  Determine who is the better player (Brick
or Breno) and keep them at RT and let the other go.  Draft our next LT

[ljr]

Mangold hasn't lost anything at C so I wouldn't look to move him.  What
Maccagnan & Bowles need to do with the OLine is:

- Identify if Wesley Johnson is the C of the future

- Determine who the RG of the future is, Winters or Harrison

- Clean up our OT situation.  Determine who is the better player (Brick
or Breno) and keep them at RT and let the other go.  Draft our next LT

I think that Brick is still better ... But no way we can keep him without paying him LT $$$.

i had thought LT was one of the spots (like QB) where it's usually important to groom a draft pick on the bench (or at the RT spot) for at least a season before throwing him to the wolves.

def would like possible LT of the future drafted at the #32 spot!

[#27TheDominator]

I wouldn't monkey with moving Mangold.  G seems to be easier to plug and play and there are more valid ones on the market. The rest of this thread has kind of turned into a draft contract discussion and I put my thoughts below. 

Wesley Johnson appears to suck.  I don't think they see him as C of the future.  He was on the practice squad.  They tried to get by with only an emergency backup at C by having everybody take snaps there and settled on Dozier.  When Mangold went down they knew Dozier couldn't cut it for full games and brought Johnson up.  I don't think his performance has endeared him to anybody.

Winters has looked better, but people keep acting like he has turned some kind of corner.  It's like Enunwa missing a couple of catches early and then people act like he has been "coached up" because he makes a nice play in OT.  Winters had a ton of trouble in the Cowboys game and committed a sh*tload of penalties.  One of them wiped out a big catch by Enunwa.  Winters has had a bunch of penalties.

I don't feel like Harrison is on the radar either.  I think he is a knucklehead and if he was going to take a job, 2015 was as good a time as any.  Colon, WInters and Aboushi were not murderer's row of competition for G.

I don't think Brick is ever going to be a candidate for RT.  He seems straight LT - pass protection type.  The decisions on Breno and Brick will be made based upon salary as much as anything.  I think Brick's durability is underrated.  That is one reason I don't bust on the goofus Eli.  He is overrated by many, but the fact he is always on the field is huge.  You don't have to worry about them.  I also budget a sh*tload more for LT than C, and I don't think people consider that enough when comparing Brick and Mangold.

They should be drafting LT prospects, but we can see how that turns out.  The Jets have drafted guys that were high to mid-level tackle prospects in in Ducasse, Winters, Aboushi, Dozier and Harrison.  None appears to be worth very much.  They have had Jason Smith who was considered a lock #2 overall and he absolutely sucked.  Even Ijalana was a 2nd rounder that played well and was only cut by the Colts because he couldn't stay on the field.  He also appears to stink. The draft is no slam dunk.  It's nice that everybody loves Maccagnan, but I doubt he is going to bet his career on a rookie LT picking middle to late in the draft.

People keep talking about cutting Pace, but he is a FA.  Replacing Pace is going to cost money, it does not save it.  Maybe they will have him back at another $2M per.  I know you guys all like Mauldin, but he does not seem to be a 4 down player.  People think Reilly can be plugged in, but he has played 4 defensive snaps over the past couple of weeks.  The other OLBs are Reilly, and Josh Martin.  They can play Catapano there and have used Richardson, but those are not sustainable strategies.  The main answer is that they have played a sh*tload of nickel and dime, but Erin Henderson is also a FA and probably has earned himself a new deal with a bit of a raise.  Davis and Lattimore are both FAs too.

 

[chirorob]

some of it yes - but a lot of it going to Harris and Cro were just foolish

I think Cro was too much, but he a one year deal.

Bringing back Harris was very important, and Rex would have given him that much to go to the Bills

[#27TheDominator]

I would like to add to my previous post (as if it weren't already way too ******* long)

Pace is the only legit OLB currently on roster.  As legit as can be. Reilly hardly plays there, Mauldin has been pass rush only.  Catapano and Richardson both are not true OLBs.  The team has gotten around that because they play nickel and dime a huge percentage of the time.  That is probably the way it will shake out, but I think they will need at least one 4 down OLB on the roster.  It will be interesting who they get/keep.

[chirorob]

nope. He is playing pretty damned good. In pass pro. He's no Orlando pace vs the run however. But then he never was. I don't see the big dropoff others seem to find. 

People seem to act like since he isn't a HOF caliber left tackle he isn't real useful.  He is a very good player who never takes time off.  He is extremely valuable.  Ask BB how much he'd like to have a LT he never really worries about.

[Jet Nut]

What is so wrong with play at either guard spot that we would want to risk moving a near pro bowl, if not pro bowl center to an unnatural position where we don't need help today? 

[Ex-Rex]

Mangold is the glue of this OL, as a center. Yeah the Jets need an upgrade at guard and will likely draft or sign one. Winters, is a journeyman kind of guy, pretty good but not going to wow anyone. Mangold is not the kind of center Kevin Mawae was - but few are - but he is a steady anchor in the middle. Going to have to ride it out with Winters for now and hope he doesn't get a bad penalty at a crucial time.

[UnknownJetFan]

I was hoping for 2016 draft to pick a LT and RT in the 1st 4 rounds to start grooming behind our current tackles. We now should have less need at the QB/WR slots for draft picks since we can go with Fitz/Petty/FA and have at least 4 WRs that are productive in their roles. We can then spend other high picks on RB, LB, etc. and a few 5-7 round picks for STs like KR/PR and other cover guys on STs. Then with re-signings of our priority players and some FA signings where we need it next year should be where we continue to be competing and growing short and long term. BTW, I know we currently have 1-5 and a 7 round pick due to the Fitz trade, but I am thinking we'll have more than 6 picks when the time comes. We could probably garnish a few mid to late round draft picks on trades perhaps of Geno, Kerley, etc. They are young and have trade value. A shame with Kerley, but he just doesn't seem to fit with this O. He can't push Decker out of the slot and he can't really play the other WR positions reliably due to not enough speed or size. 

[bostonmajet]

I was hoping for 2016 draft to pick a LT and RT in the 1st 4 rounds to start grooming behind our current tackles. We now should have less need at the QB/WR slots for draft picks since we can go with Fitz/Petty/FA and have at least 4 WRs that are productive in their roles. We can then spend other high picks on RB, LB, etc. and a few 5-7 round picks for STs like KR/PR and other cover guys on STs. Then with re-signings of our priority players and some FA signings where we need it next year should be where we continue to be competing and growing short and long term. BTW, I know we currently have 1-5 and a 7 round pick due to the Fitz trade, but I am thinking we'll have more than 6 picks when the time comes. We could probably garnish a few mid to late round draft picks on trades perhaps of Geno, Kerley, etc. They are young and have trade value. A shame with Kerley, but he just doesn't seem to fit with this O. He can't push Decker out of the slot and he can't really play the other WR positions reliably due to not enough speed or size. 

We only gave up a 6th (for the following year) for Fitz and a 5th (dumb a** Chicago) for Marshall, what do you think Geno and Kerley are going to be worth? Not much.

We are likely to tag and then trade Mo; he should bring in decent value.  We may be able to trade Milliner or McDoogle, not likely at this point, however.

[32EBoozer]

I was hoping for 2016 draft to pick a LT and RT in the 1st 4 rounds to start grooming behind our current tackles. We now should have less need at the QB/WR slots for draft picks since we can go with Fitz/Petty/FA and have at least 4 WRs that are productive in their roles. We can then spend other high picks on RB, LB, etc. and a few 5-7 round picks for STs like KR/PR and other cover guys on STs. Then with re-signings of our priority players and some FA signings where we need it next year should be where we continue to be competing and growing short and long term. BTW, I know we currently have 1-5 and a 7 round pick due to the Fitz trade, but I am thinking we'll have more than 6 picks when the time comes. We could probably garnish a few mid to late round draft picks on trades perhaps of Geno, Kerley, etc. They are young and have trade value. A shame with Kerley, but he just doesn't seem to fit with this O. He can't push Decker out of the slot and he can't really play the other WR positions reliably due to not enough speed or size. 

I think we keep Geno, just because he has "ZERO" trade value. Let him and Petty battle for backup role next yr.

Kerley might bring you something like a 6th or 7th(bad contract compared to production)

The only place MacDaddy can find some extra picks is either a trade of Sheldon or letting Mo test FA(3rd round pick) or Franchise Tag and trade 1st or 2nd rd. pick

Sheldon won't be a FA until 2018. That has serious value if Mac chooses to go that direction. I'd personally keep him and Mo together but that suspension looming and another violation is a 8 game automatic suspension worries me.Will be interesting to see how all this plays out. Not to mention Harrison.

[#27TheDominator]

I was hoping for 2016 draft to pick a LT and RT in the 1st 4 rounds to start grooming behind our current tackles. We now should have less need at the QB/WR slots for draft picks since we can go with Fitz/Petty/FA and have at least 4 WRs that are productive in their roles. We can then spend other high picks on RB, LB, etc. and a few 5-7 round picks for STs like KR/PR and other cover guys on STs. Then with re-signings of our priority players and some FA signings where we need it next year should be where we continue to be competing and growing short and long term. BTW, I know we currently have 1-5 and a 7 round pick due to the Fitz trade, but I am thinking we'll have more than 6 picks when the time comes. We could probably garnish a few mid to late round draft picks on trades perhaps of Geno, Kerley, etc. They are young and have trade value. A shame with Kerley, but he just doesn't seem to fit with this O. He can't push Decker out of the slot and he can't really play the other WR positions reliably due to not enough speed or size. 

What 4 WRs are productive in their roles?  I will give you Decker and Marshall, but after them?  Thompkins is a JAG, Kerley has no role or productivity in this offense (and you list him as trade bait), Smith has not looked good, Enunwa has played TE/H-back and Owusu has to be considering retirement. It isn't really a need, but IMO the bottom of WR depth chart will be very different in 2016.

[bostonmajet]

I think we keep Geno, just because he has "ZERO" trade value. Let him and Petty battle for backup role next yr.

Kerley might bring you something like a 6th or 7th(bad contract compared to production)

The only place MacDaddy can find some extra picks is either a trade of Sheldon or letting Mo test FA(3rd round pick) or Franchise Tag and trade 1st or 2nd rd. pick

Sheldon won't be a FA until 2018. That has serious value if Mac chooses to go that direction. I'd personally keep him and Mo together but that suspension looming and another violation is a 8 game automatic suspension worries me.Will be interesting to see how all this plays out. Not to mention Harrison.

Geno is gone next year IMO.  He just stands on the sidelines and mopes when the Jets are doing well; If we don't trade him (only advantage is he is still on Rookie contract) and they don't think Petty is ready for the backup role, the hold him until Mac finds another backup.

Yeah, they may extend Mo and trade Sheldon; my guess is that if Mo and the Jets were too far apart at the beginning of the year, they are likely to be further apart after Mo's great season. But, I would be okay with that scenario.

If we prefer our current kicker, we might be able to trade Fold - doubt it thought, but Buffalo could sure use him  there kicker has missed 5 extra points this year

Amaro might also be tradable; he had a pretty good rookie year and it seems that Chan prefers his TEs to do a lot of blocking.

Either way, hopefully we don't have to start talking about the draft until February

 

[KRL]

Personally I think Gailey is using our TE's as only blockers because
their "suckitude" is high.  When Amaro comes back next year I believe
you'll see the TE position join the offense once again