adb280z Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Here you go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Woohoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faba Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Adam Rubin ESPN Staff Writer Kelly Johnson, who joined the Mets with Juan Uribe a week before the trade deadline, is returning to the Atlanta Braves as a free agent, MLB.com's Mark Bowman reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 6, 2016 Share Posted January 6, 2016 Adam Rubin ESPN Staff Writer Kelly Johnson, who joined the Mets with Juan Uribe a week before the trade deadline, is returning to the Atlanta Braves as a free agent, MLB.com's Mark Bowman reports. IMO this is a big mistake for the Mets not re-signing him. And he is signing a one year contract for only 2 mil. When you look at his stats last year for the entire season it is way above that contract. Not sure if the Mets were interested or he just wanted to go back to the Braves. Maybe his family still lives there or something. But he would to me have been a good signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted January 7, 2016 Author Share Posted January 7, 2016 Look at that, I start the thread and Piazza gets in the HOF. This could be a good year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Sandy has already said that the budget for '16 will be about 115. And that he has no interest in Cespedes. He calls him a non-fit because he'd have to play center field. I mean you don't sigh Cespedes for his defense do you anyways. So the plan looks similar to last year: under spend and hope you are in contention around July and then use your minor league system to make deals for bats. (somebody like Cargo). You pay a portion of their salary and then let them go after the season. The assumption being that you will have a decent record like last year going into the stretch. That's a big assumption. And that you can make a deal for a big hitter. Last season Sandy waited until 15 minutes left before the deadline before agreeing to the Cespy trade. Another team could have made a deal for him while he was holding his cards. You see teams like the Giants (who have recent big time success) not waiting and signing free agents (mostly middle tier) to rebuild their roster. To me this is the way to go. 115 doesn't hack it. Too bad we have to work around this ownership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Sandy has already said that the budget for '16 will be about 115. And that he has no interest in Cespedes. He calls him a non-fit because he'd have to play center field. I mean you don't sigh Cespedes for his defense do you anyways. So the plan looks similar to last year: under spend and hope you are in contention around July and then use your minor league system to make deals for bats. (somebody like Cargo). You pay a portion of their salary and then let them go after the season. The assumption being that you will have a decent record like last year going into the stretch. That's a big assumption. And that you can make a deal for a big hitter. Last season Sandy waited until 15 minutes left before the deadline before agreeing to the Cespy trade. Another team could have made a deal for him while he was holding his cards. You see teams like the Giants (who have recent big time success) not waiting and signing free agents (mostly middle tier) to rebuild their roster. To me this is the way to go. 115 doesn't hack it. Too bad we have to work around this ownership. Dude. We get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Dude. We get it. Ok. But if you're a Mets fan some things have to be said. You can't just accept what they're doing and act like it's alright. If you disagree then NP (no problem). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Not sure why people are content with the Wilpons pissing on their heads and convincing them it's rain, just because they had an improbable WS run last year. Their system isn't exactly rife with elite bats, so we'll get to watch the offense flounder while their cost-controlled SP's carry the team (and hope the understaffed pen doesn't blow too many games). That is, until those pitchers hit FA and either become their highest-paid players (thereby eliminating any chance of signing a decent bat), or are let go, because they're simply "too expensive" to keep (which will be the case with Harvey). Regardless, this will be business as usual for the majority of my life, as their debt payments run into 2045. It's a shame, because Citi Field is a great place to catch a game, but I refuse to give the Wilpons my money, only to have them use it to service their debt instead of increasing payroll. At the risk of sounding like a drama queen, they've essentially ruined baseball for me for the rest of my life. Thank goodness for the Jets, Knicks, and Islanders for being such highly successful franchises for me to root for.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 They're depending on great and at this time inexpensive pitching to get them through at least until August. While most competitive orgs are building a team for the entire season. It's a good plan only if you're an org with no money, Or who doesn't want to spend any. Again this is NYC not the boondocks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 They're depending on great and at this time inexpensive pitching to get them through at least until August. While most competitive orgs are building a team for the entire season. It's a good plan only if you're an org with no money, Or who doesn't want to spend any. Again this is NYC not the boondocks. The problem obviously being that they don't have an endless supply of Fullmer-like prospects sitting in the minors, ready to be traded for the next Cespedes. Regardless, the folly of expecting to hit the jackpot and get similar results to what Cespedes did last year (rivaling Manny Ramirez's LA run as best performance by a trade-deadline addition) would fit this team's MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 The problem obviously being that they don't have an endless supply of Fullmer-like prospects sitting in the minors, ready to be traded for the next Cespedes. Regardless, the folly of expecting to hit the jackpot and get similar results to what Cespedes did last year (rivaling Manny Ramirez's LA run as best performance by a trade-deadline addition) would fit this team's MO. Cespedes is still a free agent last I checked. Where's all the teams scrambling for him to lead them to a title? And Justin Upton, Dexter Fowler and Gerardo Parra for that matter? It's not a folly to anticipate that we might move a pitcher for a top hitter at the trade deadline. We have the best overall starting pitching in baseball, and that never goes out of style. Making a deal for someone like a Joey Votto or a quality CF is not only possible, it seems likely. Given that we will one day need to part ways with at least 2 of these arms down the road anyways due to cost (and that would be the case even if our payroll ceiling was more like $175M), it makes sense to move an arm at peak value. I get that we should be pissed about how the Wilpons are capping our spending. But I don't see any of our complaints leading to anything. So it's kind of a waste of time. Alderson has earned the benefit of the doubt and has done a lot with limited payroll. There's little reason to think he cannot continue to do that, and that the Mets will be unable to win a title until the debt is paid off in 2045. That kind of mentality just isn't one that makes sense to me coming off a pennant-winning season we never thought possible as recently as July 2015. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 As fans we can complain. What are we supposed to do be quiet about it. And one of the reasons imo they did take action last year at the trade deadline was because not only the fans but the media complained about the kind of lineup they were willing to put on the field the first half of the season. Sandy did a good job last year but before that we were a sub .500 team with AAA players starting in the lineup. And some of the FA signings weren't very good even the few where they spent moderate amounts of money. I disagree with the philosophy that we coast it until August and then buy a bat. Good orgs don't do this kind of stuff. It's a crap shoot. As for Cespy Sandy has already stated he won't re-sign him. And there are rumors he will sign with several teams. People also said that about Murphy and he signed with our biggest competitor. Don't worry somebody will pay him but not the Mets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 As fans we can complain. What are we supposed to do be quiet about it. You can do what you want, I just see it as a waste of air in this instance. If the team starts out 2016 like they did in 2015, sure, that will be very valid. But right now I don't see too many reasons to complain until there's a legitimate reason to do so. As for Cespy Sandy has already stated he won't re-sign him To a long-term deal, no. You are correct that he is unwilling to do that. And there appear to be 0 other teams out there in a rush to give him one either. Sandy has stated he'd be willing to bring him back on a 1-year deal. The longer this offseason goes, the greater the odds that that could actually happen. People also said that about Murphy and he signed with our biggest competitor. And they will fairly quickly find that this will be a mistake in Washington. He's a defensive liability more suited for the American League, and will never again hit like he did in the 2015 postseason. It handed us an extra 1st rounder as well, for which I am thankful. While I expect a bounceback year for them to some degree, I see little reason to fear the Nationals, and especially not because of Daniel Murphy. They're doing a great job wasting the talent they have, and I have little doubt they haven't been learning many lessons as an organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Ok. But if you're a Mets fan some things have to be said. You can't just accept what they're doing and act like it's alright. If you disagree then NP (no problem). I have no idea if what they're doing is alright. Neither do you. We're 4 months away from a pitch being thrown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Cespedes is still a free agent last I checked. Where's all the teams scrambling for him to lead them to a title? And Justin Upton, Dexter Fowler and Gerardo Parra for that matter? It's not a folly to anticipate that we might move a pitcher for a top hitter at the trade deadline. We have the best overall starting pitching in baseball, and that never goes out of style. Making a deal for someone like a Joey Votto or a quality CF is not only possible, it seems likely. Given that we will one day need to part ways with at least 2 of these arms down the road anyways due to cost (and that would be the case even if our payroll ceiling was more like $175M), it makes sense to move an arm at peak value. I get that we should be pissed about how the Wilpons are capping our spending. But I don't see any of our complaints leading to anything. So it's kind of a waste of time. Alderson has earned the benefit of the doubt and has done a lot with limited payroll. There's little reason to think he cannot continue to do that, and that the Mets will be unable to win a title until the debt is paid off in 2045. That kind of mentality just isn't one that makes sense to me coming off a pennant-winning season we never thought possible as recently as July 2015. Savvy teams will end up waiting and getting the guys you mentioned for under market value... and the Mets still won't be in on them then. And yes, the Mets, who were out the instant they heard Darren O'Day wanted $8m per (the going rate for top-end setup men) and settled on 1-yr of De Aza at 5.5m instead of pursuing a much better fit for the leadoff/CF hole in Span (who cost a whopping $31m over 3 years), are going to pay Joey Votto $25m/year until he's 40 years old. Bringing a guy with known anxiety issues to NY and making him your highest paid player seems like a great plan, after all. What "quality CF" are they going to get and what's it going to cost them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I have no idea if what they're doing is alright. Neither do you. We're 4 months away from a pitch being thrown. They failed to improve their bullpen and their opening day lineup looks worse than the one that started the playoffs. If I were a betting man, I think I'd have to plunk my money down on "not a good offseason". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 They failed to improve their bullpen and their opening day lineup looks worse than the one that started the playoffs. If I were a betting man, I think I'd have to plunk my money down on "not a good offseason". Who would take such a bet? Because I'd like to put $8 billion on the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It amazes me how an improbable WS run has made everyone ignore the fact that we have the worst owners in sports, whose greed and stupidity is going to waste the best cost-controlled starting pitching in the FA era of baseball. I guess if we pretend the team is heading in the right direction, it will magically happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 It amazes me how an improbable WS run has made everyone ignore the fact that we have the worst owners in sports, whose greed and stupidity is going to waste the best cost-controlled starting pitching in the FA era of baseball. I guess if we pretend the team is heading in the right direction, it will magically happen. True story. I actually masturbate to pictures of Fred Wilpon now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 We know Wilpon sucks. No one disputes this. Sorry I don't have the list of teams who are going to be bad enough to be in position to trade away a quality CF right now. After all, its January. I threw Votto out there because I think he's got a couple years left as an effective guy in the middle of the lineup (similar to a Paul Konerko ) and I feel like dealing Duda and an arm to upgrade at 1B and/or CF is a possibility. But far too many things have yet to happen for me to have an idea of what we'll do at the trade deadline. I just think its silly to say a deal won't happen because you think it can't possibly happen 2 years in a row. Of course it can. Because we have the arms to make it happen basically any time we feel like it and enough arms to unload. Pretty much no other team in the majors is in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 You can do what you want, I just see it as a waste of air in this instance. If the team starts out 2016 like they did in 2015, sure, that will be very valid. But right now I don't see too many reasons to complain until there's a legitimate reason to do so. To a long-term deal, no. You are correct that he is unwilling to do that. And there appear to be 0 other teams out there in a rush to give him one either. Sandy has stated he'd be willing to bring him back on a 1-year deal. The longer this offseason goes, the greater the odds that that could actually happen. And they will fairly quickly find that this will be a mistake in Washington. He's a defensive liability more suited for the American League, and will never again hit like he did in the 2015 postseason. It handed us an extra 1st rounder as well, for which I am thankful. While I expect a bounceback year for them to some degree, I see little reason to fear the Nationals, and especially not because of Daniel Murphy. They're doing a great job wasting the talent they have, and I have little doubt they haven't been learning many lessons as an organization. Come on now. Wash needed a left handed bat in their lineup and they just got one of the best in the NL. It was a good signing for them. His errors not withstanding I still say he is ok defensively despite the obvious guffaws that drew fans attention. Overall he can play a fair second base and is better at 3rd and at 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetsfan80 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Come on now. Wash needed a left handed bat in their lineup and they just got one of the best in the NL. It was a good signing for them. His errors not withstanding I still say he is ok defensively despite the obvious guffaws that drew fans attention. Overall he can play a fair second base and is better at 3rd and at 1st. Your underestimation of how bad Murphy is in the field is simply baffling. There's both qualitative (error in the World Series) and quantitative (posted by me in the other thread) evidence that he's the game's worst starting defensive 2B right now. Just saying you think he's "OK" defensively doesn't make it true. He literally costs his teams games with his defense. That's a problem, and one I'm glad is Washington's problem and not ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I'll take d'Aza because at least it's something. And a legit MLB bat but on the cheaper side. But the last time Sandy signed a FA outfielder it was Chris Young who got $7 mil for one year after a bad season in Oakland. It didn't work out. And they cut him in August. As it turns out that was even a worse decision than signing him. He came alive for the Yankees and even though we were paying him played pretty well that last 2 months of the season. Not a great front office move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I liked Murph a lot, but I'm pretty sure Fred Wilpon is probably a better second baseman. Given how brilliant and not-greedy he is, and debt-free, he'd probably be ideal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Your underestimation of how bad Murphy is in the field is simply baffling. There's both qualitative (error in the World Series) and quantitative (posted by me in the other thread) evidence that he's the game's worst starting defensive 2B right now. Just saying you think he's "OK" defensively doesn't make it true. He literally costs his teams games with his defense. That's a problem, and one I'm glad is Washington's problem and not ours. I'd take Murphy anytime. He's a Mets player and it would be nice to keep our better guys. Plus he wanted to stay here. One thing great about last year's team was the loyalty the players had to each other and the manager. But Neil Walker is pretty good, too and better in the field.than Murph. But they had to give up Niese for him and Walker is only signed for one year. Which for Sandy is good news because he has no intention on paying Walker after 2016. He wants that draft pick bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 We know Wilpon sucks. No one disputes this. Sorry I don't have the list of teams who are going to be bad enough to want to trade away a quality CF right now. After all, its January. I threw Votto out there because I think he's got a couple years left as an effective guy in the middle of the lineup (similar to a Paul Konerko ) and I feel like dealing Duda and an arm to upgrade at 1B and/or CF is a possibility. But far too many things have yet to happen for me to have an idea of what we'll do at the trade deadline. I just think its silly to say a deal won't happen because you think it can't possibly happen 2 years in a row. Of course it can. Because we have the arms to make it happen basically any time we feel like it and enough arms to unload. Pretty much no other team in the majors is in that position. Votto's contract is horrible and the Mets wouldn't touch him unless the Reds are picking up half of what's left. He also has a full NTC and is apparently not a fan of big cities. I'd bet my $8 billion that he will not be a Met. Which of the SP's are you going to trade and what would you consider to be reasonable return for a cost-controlled, top-end SP? Save for Wheeler (who would be kind of foolish to sell low on), our other SP's would probably not yield enough in return right now to justify trading them this year. Harvey is the "eldest" of the bunch and he's not a FA until 2019. Outside of a Harvey-for-Mookie Betts swap, I can't think of any scenarios that make sense for the Mets to move one of their top-4 SP's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Actual question here: Is there a threshold date with RFAs and draft picks? Meaning if we pick up Fowler in March or something. Bizarre that he's still out there, gotta believe it has to do with giving up a pick. There's actually a bunch of decent to solid everyday players still available. Ces, Upton, Veneble...etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Votto's contract is horrible and the Mets wouldn't touch him unless the Reds are picking up half of what's left. He also has a full NTC and is apparently not a fan of big cities. I'd bet my $8 billion that he will not be a Met. Which of the SP's are you going to trade and what would you consider to be reasonable return for a cost-controlled, top-end SP? Save for Wheeler (who would be kind of foolish to sell low on), our other SP's would probably not yield enough in return right now to justify trading them this year. Harvey is the "eldest" of the bunch and he's not a FA until 2019. Outside of a Harvey-for-Mookie Betts swap, I can't think of any scenarios that make sense for the Mets to move one of their top-4 SP's. Just let me hold on to my Stanton dream for another year or two. Don't take that away from me you heartless jackal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Murphy's outlier performance in the NLDS and NLCS is clouding Ranger9's judgement as much as the Mets improbable WS run has JF80 and RJF convinced that they have a reasonable chance of returning with an offseason that is, thus far, a net negative compared to what they ended the season with. Murphy is no bueno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangers9 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Again I disagree about Murph being such a terrible fielder. He actually made some pretty good plays and usually was satisfactory but the fans remember those big errors of his which were occasional not all of the time. As for preparing for this coming season you have to look at the smarter orgs like the Cardinals and the Giants. They are not playing for half a season. They are adding to their rosters and filling them out so they have MLB players on the entire 25. You just have to say that the Mets are not doing this. They did a little and Cabrera is an upgrade at short. A good signing. btw one guy I'm kind of worried about is Travis. HIs hitting went down and so did his throwing. He basically did not throw out a runner the entire last month of the season. This is kind of troubling and might necessitate if it continues a change in position for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Murphy's outlier performance in the NLDS and NLCS is clouding Ranger9's judgement as much as the Mets improbable WS run has JF80 and RJF convinced that they have a reasonable chance of returning with an offseason that is, thus far, a net negative compared to what they ended the season with. Murphy is no bueno. You're way off. Go back to the '15 thread, I called all of this months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 Just let me hold on to my Stanton dream for another year or two. Don't take that away from me you heartless jackal. One of the few guys out there that makes sense, but it means you'd have to play Granderson in CF in 2017. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyHector Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 You're way off. Go back to the '15 thread, I called all of this months ago. Your expectations coming true has nothing to due with your misguided optimism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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