QB: Baker Mayfield, Oklahoma

[BCJet]

I didnt watch much of Mayfield last year but have been watching more this year as he seems like he could be a fit here. 

My question is this - i dont care necessarily about the type of offense Oklahoma runs, and his arm strength is clearly not a question, my concern is that his accuracy may be the result of throwing to guys who are consistently open.  The term "throw guys open" is used way too much, and very few college QBs can do it, most NFL guys struggle with it to an extent, but Geno Smith to me was a prime example of a spread guy, who had the arm strength for the NFL but not the anticipation.  

Mayfield seems to get the ball out quickly, has great leadership qualities (which Geno clearly didnt) and good feel in the pocket.  I was just curious from the guys that have watched him, do you see him throwing with anticipation or driving the ball into tight windows (at least some of the time)?

[Stark]

42 minutes ago, BCJet said:

I didnt watch much of Mayfield last year but have been watching more this year as he seems like he could be a fit here. 

My question is this - i dont care necessarily about the type of offense Oklahoma runs, and his arm strength is clearly not a question, my concern is that his accuracy may be the result of throwing to guys who are consistently open.  The term "throw guys open" is used way too much, and very few college QBs can do it, most NFL guys struggle with it to an extent, but Geno Smith to me was a prime example of a spread guy, who had the arm strength for the NFL but not the anticipation.  

Mayfield seems to get the ball out quickly, has great leadership qualities (which Geno clearly didnt) and good feel in the pocket.  I was just curious from the guys that have watched him, do you see him throwing with anticipation or driving the ball into tight windows (at least some of the time)?

And this is one of the reasons why he is projected lower than Darnold, Rosen. The entire QB scouting process is very unique. I would say this for his accuracy. He throws passes that keep his receivers on the move for the most part. He can drive the ball, and i think he could throw in tight windows but you don't see a lot of this in the Oklahoma offense, at least I have not. I don't think their offense asks him to do it. Hopefully someone that gets to see his games more can speak to that, I don't want to say that as fact as I don't get to watch as much as usual this year.

[Mecca]

On 10/28/2017 at 9:48 PM, Lupz27 said:

Again it's going to be epic around here as everyone goes crazy because the Jets like the rest of the NFL pass on Mayfield in the first 2 rounds of the NFL draft while as many as 5-6 QB's get drafte ahead of him.

Lupz, I give you mad respect for being all over Mahomes last year. I was team Watson, but didn't see Mahomes in the same light.

[Mecca]

I like Mayfield, but he flies out of the pocket often, instead of stepping up or maneuvering around it. That's the difference between Wilson and Manziel.

[Stark]

14 minutes ago, Mecca said:

I like Mayfield, but he flies out of the pocket often, instead of stepping up or maneuvering around it. That's the difference between Wilson and Manziel.

Here we go again with the Manziel comp to Mayfield.. lol... 

[Mecca]

2 minutes ago, Stark said:

Here we go again with the Manziel comp to Mayfield.. lol... 

His play style is a bit backyardish. Am I wrong? He escapes the pocket quick. If Manziel had elite intangibles, maybe he'd be a much better pro. 

 

 

[KRL]

People compare Mayfield to Manziel because he's short and white.  They are not the same player at all,
Manziel was a "streetball QB" who was always looking to improvise.  He had no structure to his play, he
was always looking to leave the pocket, run around and pull something out of his backside.  Mayfield
looks to play from the pocket, goes through his progressions and only when nothing is available will
he leave the pocket.  Mayfield is like Russell Wilson

[KRL]

2 hours ago, BCJet said:

I didnt watch much of Mayfield last year but have been watching more this year as he seems like he could be a fit here. 

My question is this - i dont care necessarily about the type of offense Oklahoma runs, and his arm strength is clearly not a question, my concern is that his accuracy may be the result of throwing to guys who are consistently open.  The term "throw guys open" is used way too much, and very few college QBs can do it, most NFL guys struggle with it to an extent, but Geno Smith to me was a prime example of a spread guy, who had the arm strength for the NFL but not the anticipation.  

Mayfield seems to get the ball out quickly, has great leadership qualities (which Geno clearly didnt) and good feel in the pocket.  I was just curious from the guys that have watched him, do you see him throwing with anticipation or driving the ball into tight windows (at least some of the time)?

Fair point because he doesn't play many good defenses.  The Ohio State game was the one where

he went against a pro style defense with big talent and he lifted OK to a win

[Mecca]

3 minutes ago, KRL said:

People compare Mayfield to Manziel because he's short and white.  They are not the same player at all,
Manziel was a "streetball QB" who was always looking to improvise.  He had no structure to his play, he
was always looking to leave the pocket, run around and pull something out of his backside.  Mayfield
looks to play from the pocket, goes through his progressions and only when nothing is available will
he leave the pocket.  Mayfield is like Russell Wilson

I've watched Mayfield a lot. He def pushes plays out of the pocket instead of stepping up. That's his only issue I have with him.

[Stark]

13 minutes ago, Mecca said:

I've watched Mayfield a lot. He def pushes plays out of the pocket instead of stepping up. That's his only issue I have with him.

So you would have an even bigger issue with Jackson then, since more often than not once his 1st read isn't open he leaves the pocket, rarely getting to his 2nd or 3rd reads and choosing to run. 

[BCJet]

31 minutes ago, Mecca said:

I've watched Mayfield a lot. He def pushes plays out of the pocket instead of stepping up. That's his only issue I have with him.

There is a difference between stepping up in the pocket like Brady, moving in the pocket while still looking to throw/keeping eyes downfield like Wilson or Brees, and dropping your eyes when the pocket collapses and looking to run like RGIII.  

Mayfield will rarely step up in the pocket in the traditional way as he simply cant get the right arm angle at his height, but if he is able to move laterally, while keeping his eyes downfield, he can be successful in the NFL.

Mike Lombardi on GM Street (Great football podcast btw) was talking about how the eagles have an offense tailored to move wentz around (even though height isnt an issue) and simplify some of the things he is doing.  Mayfield doesnt have his height, but he has the arm strength to capitalize on plays down the field if the pocket breaks down and he can buy time. 

[Adoni Beast]

As others have said. Mayfield's biggest problem is stepping up in the pocket more. To me that's more problematic than height. But this kid's attitude would fit perfectly with this team. Bowles wants his alpha-dogs who bring passion. 

His accuracy and ability to move on designed roll out throws make him a nice fit for our offense as well.

The other question mark as is with most college qb's, can he make the same throws in tight windows? So many throws are to wide open receivers.

[Mecca]

29 minutes ago, BCJet said:

There is a difference between stepping up in the pocket like Brady, moving in the pocket while still looking to throw/keeping eyes downfield like Wilson or Brees, and dropping your eyes when the pocket collapses and looking to run like RGIII.  

Mayfield will rarely step up in the pocket in the traditional way as he simply cant get the right arm angle at his height, but if he is able to move laterally, while keeping his eyes downfield, he can be successful in the NFL.

Mike Lombardi on GM Street (Great football podcast btw) was talking about how the eagles have an offense tailored to move wentz around (even though height isnt an issue) and simplify some of the things he is doing.  Mayfield doesnt have his height, but he has the arm strength to capitalize on plays down the field if the pocket breaks down and he can buy time. 

This is a quality post.

[Mecca]

51 minutes ago, Stark said:

So you would have an even bigger issue with Jackson then, since more often than not once his 1st read isn't open he leaves the pocket, rarely getting to his 2nd or 3rd reads and choosing to run. 

Jackson's mobility is other worldly though. Also has more height, speed and arm strength. Both have similar weaknesses, just Jackson's tools are greater.

[Stark]

35 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Jackson's mobility is other worldly though. Also has more height, speed and arm strength. Both have similar weaknesses, just Jackson's tools are greater.

I agree if you go by just physical measurable's. Still has work to do with reads and consistently able to get through reads 2-3 before taking off. 

[Adoni Beast]

https://www.ndtscouting.com/crabbs-debunking-many-myths-mayfield/amp/

 

 

[Adoni Beast]

"Usually, you’re either a gunslinger or you’re efficient. For some reason, this kid has married the two together in a way that is really unique.”

"When I watch his tape, you see back-foot throws that go 55, 60 yards in the air,” Klatt said, and he easily makes out-route passes to the wide side of the field. Mayfield can generate power on even those throws from awkward, unconventional positions."

“There’s not a better leader in college football than Baker Mayfield,” Oklahoma defensive end Ogbonnia Okoronkwo said earlier this season. “And you can quote me on that. That guy, look, I’ll follow him anywhere.”

“They have the persona that can walk into a locker room and immediately get guys to follow them,” Klatt said. “That type of leadership is rare.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/sports/wp/2017/11/08/in-oklahomas-baker-mayfield-nfl-teams-could-see-shades-of-russell-wilson-brett-favre/

 

 

[BCJet]

Great posts - cant not love the thought of this kid in Green and White

[BroadwayJoe12]

Just cannot see a dude named Baker   being a franchise QB. Serving wheat-grass shots at a hipster vegan juice bar? Sure. NFL HOF? Can't see it. 

[bla bla bla]

6 hours ago, Adoni Beast said:

"Usually, you’re either a gunslinger or you’re efficient. For some reason, this kid has married the two together in a way that is really unique.”

"When I watch his tape, you see back-foot throws that go 55, 60 yards in the air,” Klatt said, and he easily makes out-route passes to the wide side of the field. Mayfield can generate power on even those throws from awkward, unconventional positions."

“There’s not a better leader in college football than Baker Mayfield,” Oklahoma defensive end Ogbonnia Okoronkwo said earlier this season. “And you can quote me on that. That guy, look, I’ll follow him anywhere.”

“They have the persona that can walk into a locker room and immediately get guys to follow them,” Klatt said. “That type of leadership is rare.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/news/sports/wp/2017/11/08/in-oklahomas-baker-mayfield-nfl-teams-could-see-shades-of-russell-wilson-brett-favre/

 

 

I actually mocked us Mayfield in the 1st and Okoronkwo in the 3rd so he would follow him to NY if I had my way 

[Adoni Beast]

4 hours ago, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Just cannot see a dude named Baker   being a franchise QB. Serving wheat-grass shots at a hipster vegan juice bar? Sure. NFL HOF? Can't see it. 

Before Manning, I never thought a guy named Peyton would be one either.

Fran Tarkenton, Terry Bradyshaw, some other quesrionable first names. 

[Adoni Beast]

24 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I actually mocked us Mayfield in the 1st and Okoronkwo in the 3rd so he would follow him to NY if I had my way 

If we could get Mayfield in the 2nd where a lot of scouts and executives are saying he will go, and possibly get a LT in the first and a Center with our other second, I'd be pretty excited .

[bla bla bla]

57 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

If we could get Mayfield in the 2nd where a lot of scouts and executives are saying he will go, and possibly get a LT in the first and a Center with our other second, I'd be pretty excited .

Oo I'd be ecstatic too but if we want Mayfield as our QB we need to take him with our first pick. The worse thing we can do is go into the draft and not get our guy. I think he's going to sky rocket up draft boards as we near the draft.

[SenorGato]

On 11/8/2017 at 10:04 AM, Mecca said:

I like Mayfield, but he flies out of the pocket often, instead of stepping up or maneuvering around it. That's the difference between Wilson and Manziel.

There’s like a gazillion differences between these two. Between them Mayfield is much closer to Wilson on paper. 

[Mecca]

42 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

There’s like a gazillion differences between these two. Between them Mayfield is much closer to Wilson on paper. 

Yes, and a lot of them are intangible related. 

 

I like Mayfield so I'm not about to argue against him for the sake of arguing, but when I analyze him, I see him jump OUT instead of maneuver around the pocket. He has a lot of positive intangibles and is really accurate. Still prefer Jackson, but would strongly consider taking Mayfield over the raw Darnold and the overrated Allen.

[SenorGato]

15 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Yes, and a lot of them are intangible related. 

 

I like Mayfield so I'm not about to argue against him for the sake of arguing, but when I analyze him, I see him jump OUT instead of maneuver around the pocket. He has a lot of positive intangibles and is really accurate. Still prefer Jackson, but would strongly consider taking Mayfield over the raw Darnold and the overrated Allen.

All the tangibles too

And wait wait wait...Darnold is raw but Jackson is your preferred guy in the bunch? Both those guys seem raw to me, Darnold with experience and Jackson with accuracy off the top 

[Mecca]

43 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

All the tangibles too

And wait wait wait...Darnold is raw but Jackson is your preferred guy in the bunch? Both those guys seem raw to me, Darnold with experience and Jackson with accuracy off the top 

Darnold's throwing motion may be unfixable. Not sure if seasoning can change that. 

Still believe that Jackson's completion % is suppressed by terrible WR/TE's. I think his bigger issue is injuries as he's a wiry athlete still. Needs 15-20 pounds of muscle on him in the pro game.

[SenorGato]

13 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Darnold's throwing motion may be unfixable. Not sure if seasoning can change that. 

Still believe that Jackson's completion % is suppressed by terrible WR/TE's. I think his bigger issue is injuries as he's a wiry athlete still. Needs 15-20 pounds of muscle on him in the pro game.

Is that really an excuse? It’s college football - the vast majority of players are terrible by pro standards and it’s not as if standards are so high. He’s also passing against many terrible DBs and LBs. 

I also don’t get how that second part makes him more appealing. So he’s small and injury prone to boot, and this is in the case for?!?! 

[Mecca]

3 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Is that really an excuse? It’s college football - the vast majority of players are terrible by pro standards and it’s not as if standards are so high. He’s also passing against many terrible DBs and LBs. 

I also don’t get how that second part makes him more appealing. So he’s small and injury prone to boot, and this is in the case for?!?! 

Do you see what you're doing? You're literally mitigating specific statistical evidence in order to diminish my point. 

Louisville has the #1 drop rate in all of college football for his receivers. Saying 'it's college football' is fallacy filled logic. Having poor receivers is correlated to a lower competition %. 

And I'm being objective with Lamar. I'm saying one of his cons are his frame more so than his accuracy. No need to be smug dude.

[SenorGato]

10 minutes ago, Mecca said:

Do you see what you're doing? You're literally mitigating specific statistical evidence in order to diminish my point. 

Louisville has the #1 drop rate in all of college football for his receivers. Saying 'it's college football' is fallacy filled logic. Having poor receivers is correlated to a lower competition %. 

And I'm being objective with Lamar. I'm saying one of his cons are his frame more so than his accuracy. No need to be smug dude.

Woof, alrighty then 

[jetrider]

3 hours ago, SenorGato said:

There’s like a gazillion differences between these two. Between them Mayfield is much closer to Wilson on paper. 

and much closer to Manziel on a police blotter

 

[SenorGato]

19 minutes ago, jetrider said:

and much closer to Manziel on a police blotter

That’s very dramatic sounding and all but just really really downplays Manziel. 

[Adoni Beast]

8 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

Oo I'd be ecstatic too but if we want Mayfield as our QB we need to take him with our first pick. The worse thing we can do is go into the draft and not get our guy. I think he's going to sky rocket up draft boards as we near the draft.

You're probably right. Wishful thinking and I don't think Mac uses a first on him. But we'll see how it all unfolds, still only November.

[maury77]

7 hours ago, Mecca said:

Darnold's throwing motion may be unfixable. Not sure if seasoning can change that. 

Still believe that Jackson's completion % is suppressed by terrible WR/TE's. I think his bigger issue is injuries as he's a wiry athlete still. Needs 15-20 pounds of muscle on him in the pro game.

Aside from the frame, I've also read some legit criticism about Jackson's throwing stance. Some people are saying that the reason his accuracy suffers on deeper throws is because of his bladed & narrow stance. He's able to get away with it because he has such a good arm. Unlike a throwing motion (ala Darnold), I would think Jackson's mechanical issue is going to be easier to fix. 

[BCJet]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Aside from the frame, I've also read some legit criticism about Jackson's throwing stance. Some people are saying that the reason his accuracy suffers on deeper throws is because of his bladed & narrow stance. He's able to get away with it because he has such a good arm. Unlike a throwing motion (ala Darnold), I would think Jackson's mechanical issue is going to be easier to fix. 

Darnold is never going to overhaul his throwing motion and he shouldnt.  The only time you alter a motion (more then making subtle changes) is to improve accuracy or release time and Darnold is accurate and even with the elongated delivery, gets the ball out quickly.  Teams ripped Rivers throwing motion too, and he never changed it because it works for him.

I can see the upside with Lamar Jackson and by all accounts he is a hard worker and great kid, (I also had no idea the drop rate was that high) but I do see him sail a lot of passes because he doesnt have great mechanics.  I do think that is very fixable, as he is accurate for the most part and he has immense physical talent and arm strength and if the Jets wind up with him I wont hate it, but I really like the package that Mayfield brings to the table and prefer him and Darnold over Jackson.

Should be a great day tomorrow with Darnold on TV at 4pm and Mayfield against a good defense at 8pm