Fletcher Cox and Eagles working on big extension.

[SenorGato]

https://mobile.twitter.com/howardeskin/status/694228777363066880

https://mobile.twitter.com/howardeskin/status/694229346244915200

It should be noted that the cap is expected to fly up in 2017 and 2018, particularly with the league's new TV deal. That said - lets get the basic  set up going...let me just find the template...Ok here goes:

Something something not proper not QB dramatic overpaid.

 

[32EBoozer]

If you compare Mo and Cox, Pretty similar players(although Mo has better talent around him).

And other than Bradford, hardly any FA to speak of and more cap money than Jets.

Smart to lock Cox up, but Jets have a different scenario w/ three  Pro Bowl caliber 3-4 DE on the roster.

[dbatesman]

They should trade Cox and lock up Bennie Logan instead.

[SenorGato]

They should trade Cox and lock up Bennie Logan instead.

*In a Francessa sounding voice*

Ya gotta shure up dat run defense. Ya not winnin witout it. Dis is a running da footbawll league. Da Iggles may have locked up a younga, moar praductive and more vesatile defendah, but who is pluggin up dat run for dem now that dey' made dere bed? Ya gotta stop da run, period. 

 

 

[Jet Nut]

If you compare Mo and Cox, Pretty similar players(although Mo has better talent around him).

And other than Bradford, hardly any FA to speak of and more cap money than Jets.

Smart to lock Cox up, but Jets have a different scenario w/ three  Pro Bowl caliber 3-4 DE on the roster.

Mo's the better player, both are really good though 

They eventually have to maneuver around the cap because of his contract, either this year or later on.  

But as you say, the Jets have the better defense, have more options on the line and wont be as negatively effected if you take Mo away.  

[SenorGato]

I enjoy how it's casually assumed the Jets wouldn't skip a beat without Wilkerson. Are there any facts behind this? 'Cause the only year he missed any major time is coincidentally the only year they weren't even a top 12 (the low end in seasons Wilkerson has played 16 games) defense since he's been drafted - that despite a loaded DL with Richardson and the Jah of NT'ing.

[NYJ37/12]

I've been on the fence about this subject. Paying any player other than your qb 100 plus has never made much sense. However, the salary cap is allowing for others on the roster to enjoy these inflated salaries. Mo is our best player. You keep your best players. Pay him and move on.

[varjet]

I've been on the fence about this subject. Paying any player other than your qb 100 plus has never made much sense. However, the salary cap is allowing for others on the roster to enjoy these inflated salaries. Mo is our best player. You keep your best players. Pay him and move on.

I think the assumption has been that the Jets are keeping 4 1st Round DL.  I don't think that can happen.  Snacks or SR will go in time.  They can pay the DL and, for a few more years Harris and Revis and then draft LBs and replacements.

The team does not progress though without drafting well.  

[NYJ37/12]

Drafting well will be the future core of your team but you must keep your current core in tact.  Honestly, the Revis deal is going to hurt the Jets regarding keeping the players they should keep this year, i.e snacks, ivory and mo. Big Mac has his work cut out this off season.

[BroadwayJets]

I don't think snacks or mo are here next season. Are we really going to pay out give or take $24 million to the defensive line position when that's the only area we have great depth? Strongly doubt it. Mo is an excellent player, we'll try to get something out of him, especially if we want a quarterback. And we'll also enjoy snacks' 3-4 round comp pick next season. 

[SenorGato]

I don't think snacks or mo are here next season. Are we really going to pay out give or take $24 million to the defensive line position when that's the only area we have great depth? Strongly doubt it. Mo is an excellent player, we'll try to get something out of him, especially if we want a quarterback. And we'll also enjoy snacks' 3-4 round comp pick next season. 

[BroadwayJets]

I just don't believe the value of both of them being resigned is worth the cost. 

[Scoop24]

This why we should extended Mo 2 years ago .. His positional value is so high now of days it's crazy .

[Savage69]

This why we should extended Mo 2 years ago .. His positional value is so high now of days it's crazy .

How do you know they didn't try?? 

[Beerfish]

This why we should extended Mo 2 years ago .. His positional value is so high now of days it's crazy .

We had NO idea two years ago if he would ever develop into the guy he is now.  Two yeas ago he was a good looking young guy that played a half season at a time.  You also just can't burn away the cheap years of a players starting contract unless you are 100% sure about him. 

[Savage69]

We had NO idea two years ago if he would ever develop into the guy he is now.  Two yeas ago he was a good looking young guy that played a half season at a time.  You also just can't burn away the cheap years of a players starting contract unless you are 100% sure about him. 

2 years ago Mo had a fine season in 2013 which was his 3rd season I agree with Scoop that was the time to do a contract..

[Beerfish]

2 years ago Mo had a fine season in 2013 which was his 3rd season I agree with Scoop that was the time to do a contract..

Fine half of a season.  And there is some assumption that a guy will sign a long term bargain deal just cause?  I would Assume that the Jets should be signing Richardson and Williams to long term bargain basement deals right now eh? 

[Savage69]

Fine half of a season.  And there is some assumption that a guy will sign a long term bargain deal just cause?  I would Assume that the Jets should be signing Richardson and Williams to long term bargain basement deals right now eh? 

Williams just completed his 1st season going into 2014 Mo was entering his 4th season was that really hard to understand?? As far as Sheldon goes many here wanted him cut after the speeding ticket..

[Beerfish]

Williams just completed his 1st season going into 2014 Mo was entering his 4th season was that really hard to understand?? As far as Sheldon goes many here wanted him cut after the speeding ticket..

so one yr for Williams vs 3 for Mo wilk.  And you copped our on the Richardson point.  Do you sign Richardson long term right now? You also copped out on this grand thought that you sign guys after 3 years and they will happily sing long term for bargain dollars.  They won't in most cases.  Players will happily sing longer term deals if they are the ilk that was mentioned before, woodehead, lewis singing cheap longer term deals.  Guys with the potential to make the big pay day are not going to sign on the cheap.

[Shockwave]

so one yr for Williams vs 3 for Mo wilk.  And you copped our on the Richardson point.  Do you sign Richardson long term right now? You also copped out on this grand thought that you sign guys after 3 years and they will happily sing long term for bargain dollars.  They won't in most cases.  Players will happily sing longer term deals if they are the ilk that was mentioned before, woodehead, lewis singing cheap longer term deals.  Guys with the potential to make the big pay day are not going to sign on the cheap.

Beer, 

I don't think anyone is signing cheap. But when you have a possible elite player what you have is the Leverage to get a deal done. Check below at the 2011 draft class. No cheap deals. But the "Smart teams" extended there player early while they still had leverage to get a long term deal done. Letting a player get too close to FA is ridiculous. The majority of good players are retained by there team. 

All of these teams extended there guys early. Why were the Jets not capable of this with ridiculous cap room last year? 

 

2011 - ROUND 1
SEL #	TEAM	PLAYER	POSITION	SCHOOL
1	Carolina Panthers	Cam Newton	QB	Auburn
2	Denver Broncos	Von Miller	LB	Texas A&M
3	Buffalo Bills	Marcell Dareus	DT	Alabama
4	Cincinnati Bengals	A.J. Green	WR	Georgia
5	Arizona Cardinals	Patrick Peterson	DB	LSU
6	Atlanta Falcons	Julio Jones	WR	Alabama
7	San Francisco 49ers	Aldon Smith	LB	Missouri
8	Tennessee Titans	Jake Locker	QB	Washington
9	Dallas Cowboys	Tyron Smith	T	USC
10	Jacksonville Jaguars	Blaine Gabbert	QB	Missouri
11	Houston Texans	J.J. Watt	DE	Wisconsin
12	Minnesota Vikings	Christian Ponder	QB	Florida State
13	Detroit Lions	Nick Fairley	DT	Auburn
14	St. Louis Rams	Robert Quinn	DE	North Carolina
15	Miami Dolphins	Mike Pouncey	C	Florida
16	Washington Redskins	Ryan Kerrigan	LB	Purdue
17	New England Patriots	Nate Solder	T	Colorado
18	San Diego Chargers	Corey Liuget	DE	Illinois
19	New York Giants	Prince Amukamara	DB	Nebraska
20	Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Adrian Clayborn	DE	Iowa
21	Cleveland Browns	Phillip Taylor	DT	Baylor
22	Indianapolis Colts	Anthony Castonzo	T	Boston College
23	Philadelphia Eagles	Danny Watkins	G	Baylor
24	New Orleans Saints	Cameron Jordan	DE	California
25	Seattle Seahawks	James Carpenter	T	Alabama
26	Kansas City Chiefs	Jonathan Baldwin	WR	Pittsburgh
27	Baltimore Ravens	Jimmy Smith	DB	Colorado
28	New Orleans Saints	Mark Ingram	RB	Alabama
29	Chicago Bears	Gabe Carimi	T	Wisconsin
30	New York Jets	Muhammad Wilkerson	DT	Temple
31	Pittsburgh Steelers	Cameron Heyward	DE	Ohio State
32	Green Bay Packers	Derek Sherrod	T

[Beerfish]

18 hours ago, Shockwave said:

 

Beer, 

I don't think anyone is signing cheap. But when you have a possible elite player what you have is the Leverage to get a deal done. Check below at the 2011 draft class. No cheap deals. But the "Smart teams" extended there player early while they still had leverage to get a long term deal done. Letting a player get too close to FA is ridiculous. The majority of good players are retained by there team. 

All of these teams extended there guys early. Why were the Jets not capable of this with ridiculous cap room last year? 

 

Just how do you have all sorts of leverage in extending players and why would you want to?  Why would you want to sign Mo Wilk to a big contract two years before you have to, especially when he has not proven he is an elite player?  Why would any guy that thinks he is good sign a long term deal that is below what he perceives his market value is going to be?  You pay money to elite players not possible elite players and you have to use those years of rookie deals as a buffer to sign other players. 

[SenorGato]

1 hour ago, Beerfish said:

Just how do you have all sorts of leverage in extending players and why would you want to?  Why would you want to sign Mo Wilk to a big contract two years before you have to, especially when he has not proven he is an elite player?  Why would any guy that thinks he is good sign a long term deal that is below what he perceives his market value is going to be?  You pay money to elite players not possible elite players and you have to use those years of rookie deals as a buffer to sign other players. 

Yeah, me thinks you should do a little digging on Wilkerson before 2014. Wilkerson's first elite season was 2012, and generally he was recognized long before 2014.

I do agree with your point on not extending him before you have to. OTOH, not hard to imagine that the Jets were just being the Jets, behind the curve and never proactive.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, SenorGato said:

Yeah, me thinks you should do a little digging on Wilkerson before 2014. Wilkerson's first elite season was 2012, and generally he was recognized long before 2014.

I do agree with your point on not extending him before you have to. OTOH, not hard to imagine that the Jets were just being the Jets, behind the curve and never proactive.

2012 5 sacks - 1st half : 1, 2nd half : 4

2013 10.5 sacks - 1st half : 7, 2nd half: 3.5

2014 6 sacks - 1st half: 4.5, 2nd half: 1.5

2015 12 sacks - 1st half: 5, 2nd half: 7

 

5 sacks is not elite for 2012, his other years had a tendency to start off like a house on fire and then fade.  this past year was the 1st rel season he put up great numbers and was consistent and strong through the season.

[SenorGato]

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

2012 5 sacks - 1st half : 1, 2nd half : 4

2013 10.5 sacks - 1st half : 7, 2nd half: 3.5

2014 6 sacks - 1st half: 4.5, 2nd half: 1.5

2015 12 sacks - 1st half: 5, 2nd half: 7

 

5 sacks is not elite for 2012, his other years had a tendency to start off like a house on fire and then fade.  this past year was the 1st rel season he put up great numbers and was consistent and strong through the season.

Imagine a world where interior DLmen and 3-4 DEs aren't judged solely on sacks. This is like saying Richard Seymour isn't a HOF and great player because he never put up a high sack season with the Patriots. I've provided links to Wilkerson's accolades and accomplishments in the larger thread, feel free to read up. Or just use The Googles...Grantland put out a couple great pieces on Wilkerson during the 2012 and 2013 seasons.

[Beerfish]

35 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Imagine a world where interior DLmen and 3-4 DEs aren't judged solely on sacks. This is like saying Richard Seymour isn't a HOF and great player because he never put up a high sack season with the Patriots. I've provided links to Wilkerson's accolades and accomplishments in the larger thread, feel free to read up. Or just use The Googles...Grantland put out a couple great pieces on Wilkerson during the 2012 and 2013 seasons.

Who said they were being judge soley by sacks?  Very good 3-4 Dlineman who stop the run and get a sack or two get one pay scale, 3-4 Dlineman that can stop the run and get lots of sacks are worth a whole other pay scale.   Unless we put actual numbers and years and guaranteed money to any of these argument both for an against are moot.  Especially when you would have to go back in time and look at the moves we would have had to make or not make to make this extension a reality.

[SenorGato]

29 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Who said they were being judge soley by sacks?  Very good 3-4 Dlineman who stop the run and get a sack or two get one pay scale, 3-4 Dlineman that can stop the run and get lots of sacks are worth a whole other pay scale.   Unless we put actual numbers and years and guaranteed money to any of these argument both for an against are moot.  Especially when you would have to go back in time and look at the moves we would have had to make or not make to make this extension a reality.

The guy who just cited sacks? I mean come on...Anyway, folks who spend alot more time on this stuff than you and I have acknowledged Wilkerson's greatness for far longer than the past two seasons...to make it a little easier:

From July 2013:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-all-22-all-star-team-muhammad-wilkerson-and-the-new-versatility/

December 2013:

http://grantland.com/features/bill-barnwell-pick-nfl-all-pro-team/

November 2013 (Barnwell from Grantland):

Quote

Muhammad Wilkerson, DE, New York Jets: I suspected before the season that Wilkerson would be the honorable mention player I would regret not putting on the list, and that’s how it turned out. Wilkerson’s not Watt, but he is the best mortal 3-4 defensive end in football. He also makes only about $2 million per season in 2013 and 2014, the final two years of his deal. When the Jets clear the Mark Sanchez contract off the books, they should use that money on Wilkerson.

 

I honestly don't get what about Wilkerson makes this board sell him short so consistently, it's probably just working for this lazy franchise, but this is a legitimately great player who is very quietly putting together a HOF caliber career.

 

[Beerfish]

45 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

 

I honestly don't get what about Wilkerson makes this board sell him short so consistently, it's probably just working for this lazy franchise, but this is a legitimately great player who is very quietly putting together a HOF caliber career.

 

I'm not selling him short,,,,at all.  I've gone on record as saying that the jets should do everything they can to keep him and that trading him for a 1st rounder while he is at his peak is dumb unless you are forced to move on.

 

What I have said is that this past year was his best, by a lot and we did not have that info two years ago.  People calling for him to be extended while giving no parameters of any extension 2 years ago are not making their point.  People making decisions now about him without knowing what he is asking for are not making a point. 

Should the Jets sing him to a nice long term deal?  Yes.

Should the Jets overpay him if he wants stupid money?  No.

Should the Jets have signed him two years ago?  Perhaps, perhaps not.  You can't use the past two years of his performance at all to justify signing him two years ago.

 

[SenorGato]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I'm not selling him short,,,,at all.

The mantra....If you believe this guy only joined the ranks of the NFL's elite within the past two years, you're selling him short. So much of the appeal in Wilkerson is that he's been awesome and consistent throughout his young career.

My guess is they wanted to extend him ASAP, I would hope anyway, but his reps were too smart to go to the table two years ago.

[Beerfish]

52 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

The mantra....If you believe this guy only joined the ranks of the NFL's elite within the past two years, you're selling him short. So much of the appeal in Wilkerson is that he's been awesome and consistent throughout his young career.

My guess is they wanted to extend him ASAP, I would hope anyway, but his reps were too smart to go to the table two years ago.

We will have to agree to disagree because he has not been consistently elite and I showed that to you with his season game splits. 

[DoubleDecker]

Funny thing is I think Mo and  Cox have similar skill sets.  If Mo is willing to sign a contract similar to that, well that would gross negligence on Mac's end to not get it done.  Funny thing is, I think it would be interesting to see what Mo truly wants.

[SenorGato]

3 hours ago, Beerfish said:

We will have to agree to disagree because he has not been consistently elite and I showed that to you with his season game splits. 

You showed me one stat and, frankly, I'm not even sure you could explain what I was supposed to take from it. You got several links that say the exact opposite of what you claim based on your selective information. If you want to ignore it, go ahead, but please don't convince yourself that you came up with a decent argument as to why he hasn't been an elite player.

[Shockwave]

On February 4, 2016 at 10:20 AM, Beerfish said:

Just how do you have all sorts of leverage in extending players and why would you want to?  Why would you want to sign Mo Wilk to a big contract two years before you have to, especially when he has not proven he is an elite player?  Why would any guy that thinks he is good sign a long term deal that is below what he perceives his market value is going to be?  You pay money to elite players not possible elite players and you have to use those years of rookie deals as a buffer to sign other players. 

If any of what you said above is true why did: Cam Newton, Marcell Dareus, AJ Green, Patrick Peterson, Kulio Jones, Tyron Smith, JJ Watt, Robert Quinn, Nate Solder, Corey Liuget,Cameron Jordon, And Cameron Heywerd ALL get extensions already?

While some are Elite - they are not ALL elite. They got extended by smart teams while those teams had Leverage in terms of time left on the players deal. This isn't some novel concept. Its common sense. 

Any and EVERY player will make more money in Free Agency rather then resigning with their own team early. Yet all of the above have signed contracts with their home team early. Some say security. Others injury risk. Whatever the hell it is - They are all signed. Again - There is no reason or excuse that make it ok to have young Elite Talent get to Free Agency - Especially when we had 50m in cap room last year. 

We are 1 Sheldon Richardson blunt away from a Front 7 Starring Leonard Williams and 6 Jag's/Part time players.