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Is Denver's D one of the all-time greats?


TuscanyTile2

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The Broncos had the worst offense to win a SB since the Bucs (who actually scored a point more a game)  Even the Ravens, scored more points per game.  

Considering what this team did, how they won and who they beat and that you'd have to go back a really long time to find a team with a worse offense win a SB...yes, I think they're an all time D. 

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42 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Like 1985 Bears, 1986 Giants, 2001 Ravens etc.

'86 Giants were great I wouldn't put them in the discussion though.  I would say the best in the SB era have been pick one of the 70s Steelers, the '85 Bears, the '00 ravens and '02 Bucs.  Denver had an incredible postseason no doubt about it and may have had the most impressive performance in a SB but I wouldn't put them on a level w/ those D's I mentioned.

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18 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

'86 Giants were great I wouldn't put them in the discussion though.  I would say the best in the SB era have been pick one of the 70s Steelers, the '85 Bears, the '00 ravens and '02 Bucs.  Denver had an incredible postseason no doubt about it and may have had the most impressive performance in a SB but I wouldn't put them on a level w/ those D's I mentioned.

I agree with most of that.  But I put the 86 Giants up there.  Multiple HOF players on defense, LT winning the MVP, how many QB's did they knock out of games? 

I still rank the 85 Bears as the best I have seen, and talk about a playoff run.  10 points in 3 games, 3 came after a fumble where NE got the ball inside the 20.

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16 minutes ago, chirorob said:

I agree with most of that.  But I put the 86 Giants up there.  Multiple HOF players on defense, LT winning the MVP, how many QB's did they knock out of games? 

I still rank the 85 Bears as the best I have seen, and talk about a playoff run.  10 points in 3 games, 3 came after a fumble where NE got the ball inside the 20.

that was the best Giant team of the SB era and it's not close.  That was a dominant D worthy of all time great discussion I just don't believe worthy of the greatest discussion.

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2 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Like 1985 Bears, 1986 Giants, 2001 Ravens etc.

IMHO...no.

I think they are close, but were they as shutdown as the others?  The Ravens you could not run against.  The Bears shutdown the passing game, except for Dan Marino in his prime.  Teams moved the ball and did score against the Broncos ' D.

I think they are analogous to Greatest Ds as Brady/Montana are to Peyton in the QB Debate.  They are among the very best, but great?  No.

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32 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Time after time Peyton went 3-and-out versus the Pats and the Panthers, and you just sit there waiting for it to eventually take its toll on the defense and for them to blow the lead... and they didn't.

It was impressive.

It was.   Very.  

Peyton did the same thing the game before against NE, and they held several times before finally giving up a TD but stopping the 2 pointer.

Nice run, Big Ben, Brady, Cam. 

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46 minutes ago, BurnleyJet said:

No the 85 Bears and  2000 Ravens was dominant every game. Denvers D did a 2007 Giants got very hot in the playoffs. It was the Von Miller and Ware show.

That's total east coast bias , as every one that has seen Denver defense  all year knew how great their defense was. Wasn't surprised what happened, as they been doing it all year.   They were the number 1 defense in football all year , and had more sacks than any team by a large margin.     This wasn't a defense that played well just down the stretch.

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It is definitely one of the all-time greats, and more important it was a D built for the 2015 NFL.  They had the elite pass rush in Von Miller, Demarcus Ware, and others like Shane Ray.  They had the speedy linebackers who could cover and stop the run in Marshall and Trevathan.  And they had the man-to-man lockdown corners in Talib, Harris, and Roby.  TJ Ward at safety was terrific too.

Elway followed the blueprint for a great D in the modern NFL.  The 2015 Jets would have been a great D in the 1990s, but in 2015 they were just good, not great.

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15 hours ago, Raideraholic said:

That's total east coast bias , as every one that has seen Denver defense  all year knew how great their defense was. Wasn't surprised what happened, as they been doing it all year.   They were the number 1 defense in football all year , and had more sacks than any team by a large margin.     This wasn't a defense that played well just down the stretch.

they were outstanding and carried Denver to a SB but how many all time great Ds are 4th in points allowed? and it wasn't like the played in a tough division.

Den '15: 4th in PA, 1st in YA

Bal '00: 1st in PA, 2nd in YA

Chi '85: 1st in PA, 1st in YA

TB '02: 1st in PA, 1st in YA

Outstanding job by Denver this year, they absolutely carried that team to a title but I didn't see greatest D of all time or a D even in that discussion.

 

 

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Denver's D was dominant and I enjoyed watching what they did but I would take Seattle's defense from 2 years ago over this one.  Manning was coming a 55 td year and the Broncos offense was way more explosive than this Carolina team. 

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31 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Denver's D was dominant and I enjoyed watching what they did but I would take Seattle's defense from 2 years ago over this one.  Manning was coming a 55 td year and the Broncos offense was way more explosive than this Carolina team. 

to be fair it isn't that difficult to make Peyton struggle in postseason.

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3 hours ago, nyjunc said:

they were outstanding and carried Denver to a SB but how many all time great Ds are 4th in points allowed? and it wasn't like the played in a tough division.

Den '15: 4th in PA, 1st in YA

Bal '00: 1st in PA, 2nd in YA

Chi '85: 1st in PA, 1st in YA

TB '02: 1st in PA, 1st in YA

Outstanding job by Denver this year, they absolutely carried that team to a title but I didn't see greatest D of all time or a D even in that discussion.

 

 

This is why you can't rely on just stats, but have to actually watch a defense all year.  The fact is the Bronco Qb have turned the football over  at a high rate-  interceptions.( you put your defense in enough bad spots, and the other team going to score).  . Also your offense is struggling so much, that's forces your defense to be on the field longer than they should.

I don't like the Bronco's but you have to give them props for building one of the best defenses.  Now it's time to steal some of that defensive talent.( price of being great , as you can't keep everyone.

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46 minutes ago, prime21 said:

Denver's D was dominant and I enjoyed watching what they did but I would take Seattle's defense from 2 years ago over this one.  Manning was coming a 55 td year and the Broncos offense was way more explosive than this Carolina team. 

The Bronco's might have been Super Bowl champs two years ago if they were totally healthy.   Imagine your Rt now trying to block Von Miller( who was lost for the season- not a pretty picture).   That is the name of the game-  injuries .  So it really hard to make a case which defense was superior.

Jmo I think Seattle defense just was poor matchup for Denver offense( heavy Te depended offense- going against best safeties in the NFL.    The Steelers speed on offense  this year was a poor matchup for the Bronco's defense- best performance I saw from any offense this year against that defense.

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19 minutes ago, Raideraholic said:

This is why you can't rely on just stats, but have to actually watch a defense all year.  The fact is the Bronco Qb have turned the football over  at a high rate-  interceptions.( you put your defense in enough bad spots, and the other team going to score).  . Also your offense is struggling so much, that's forces your defense to be on the field longer than they should.

I don't like the Bronco's but you have to give them props for building one of the best defenses.  Now it's time to steal some of that defensive talent.( price of being great , as you can't keep everyone.

I don't rely on just stats but to be considered the best you have to put #s and you have to dominate.  They were a GREAT defense, they were nowhere near as good as 2002 TB, 2000 Bal or 1985 Chi.

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23 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I would say the best in the SB era have been pick one of the 70s Steelers, the '85 Bears, the '00 ravens and '02 Bucs.  Denver had an incredible postseason no doubt about it and may have had the most impressive performance in a SB but I wouldn't put them on a level w/ those D's I mentioned.

This.

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1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

I don't rely on just stats but to be considered the best you have to put #s and you have to dominate.  They were a GREAT defense, they were nowhere near as good as 2002 TB, 2000 Bal or 1985 Chi.

How many games have you roughly seen Denver Bronco's defense play in this year?      There are so many factors that go into the numbers - quality of the teams you played.   You played a soft schedule+ weak division , and you dominated those teams , what exactly do those numbers mean.( was built against bad teams). You played really bad Qb, and dominated it means exactly what.

That Denver defense doesn't have many weakness you can exploit. ( dominated putting pressure on the Qb, and it wasn't even close)   the 1985 Bears defense-  the west coast offense exposed that defense for what it was.( made it irrelevant) 2002 Tampabay was a cover two defense.  ( could exploit that type of coverage)C Barrett Robbins didn't go off the deep end, and Bill Callahan changed the terminology on Gruden plays- that defense would have been exposed.

2000 Raven defense was pretty good.( jmo Denver defense right up there) Can't go wrong with either defense. Those would be my top two defense- just my opinion- which doesn't mean much

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1 minute ago, Raideraholic said:

How many games have you roughly seen Denver Bronco's defense play in this year?      There are so many factors that go into the numbers - quality of the teams you played.   You played a soft schedule+ weak division , and you dominated those teams , what exactly do those numbers mean.( was built against bad teams). You played really bad Qb, and dominated it means exactly what.

That Denver defense doesn't have many weakness you can exploit. ( dominated putting pressure on the Qb, and it wasn't even close)   the 1985 Bears defense-  the west coast offense exposed that defense for what it was.( made it irrelevant) 2002 Tampabay was a cover two defense.  ( could exploit that type of coverage)C Barrett Robbins didn't go off the deep end, and Bill Callahan changed the terminology on Gruden plays- that defense would have been exposed.

2000 Raven defense was pretty good.( jmo Denver defense right up there) Can't go wrong with either defense. Those would be my top two defense- just my opinion- which doesn't mean much

I saw them enough, not every week but maybe half their games? and they didn't play a tough sched:

Bal stunk

KC game 1 was when they were struggling

KC game 2 that was tough

Det stunk

GB was not a great O this year

oak was mediocre

Cle stunk

Indy was mediocre

Chi mediocre

NE tough

Pitt tough

Cincy w/ backup QB in 2nd start

SD stunk

 

you can't go wrong w/ any of these defenses but 2000 Baltimore was on a completely different level from this Denver D(as were Chi '85 and TB '02)

A few years ago I looked up all the offenses each D played and how they fared against those Os vs. how the rest of the league fared.  TB '02 actually came out on top.  That D is incredibly underrated.  I wish I still had that info.

 

no one exposed the Bears D in 1985

no one exposed the TB D in 2002

maybe in other years it happened.  Chi allowed 10 pts TOTAL in the playoffs, Den 10 pts in the SB alone.  they just don't compare, we always get caught up in the moment and tend to overrate players/teams.  a decade from now no one will be comparing '15 Den to those other Ds.

 

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4 hours ago, HessStation said:
On 2/8/2016 at 3:07 PM, nyjunc said:

'86 Giants were great I wouldn't put them in the discussion though.  I would say the best in the SB era have been pick one of the 70s Steelers, the '85 Bears, the '00 ravens and '02 Bucs.  Denver had an incredible postseason no doubt about it and may have had the most impressive performance in a SB but I wouldn't put them on a level w/ those D's I mentioned.

This.

You wouldn't put the '86 Giants in their category?  I'd take the '86 Giants D over the Tampa D.  The Bears and Ravens were probably the 2 best I've seen in my life though (I only vaguely remember the late 70's Steelers).

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50 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

You wouldn't put the '86 Giants in their category?  I'd take the '86 Giants D over the Tampa D.  The Bears and Ravens were probably the 2 best I've seen in my life though (I only vaguely remember the late 70's Steelers).

I liked everything he said except the 86 Giants part. For that I'd have to look a little closer statistiacally but they might be a next tier down. A great defense but not sure about all time.

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