Grade the Pick: QB Christian Hackenberg

[Sarge4Tide]

So far, 30 people have given the pick an A or A+ and 25 have given it an F or F-

That's pretty cool IMHO 

[afosomf]

everyone knows that if you have 3 Qbs you really have zippo

 

Tank for Watson

[Rangers9]

Well Kim Jones said that Mac drove over 200 miles to watch him work out. And the Jets did a lot of work on this guy. But his old coach wasn't interested which says a lot. If Mac did say that Hack could start this year that says a lot. But if he does start and lt's Geno Smith part 2 then there's going to be airplanes flown over Met Life. This is not supposed to be a rebuilding year. We should have learned our lessons via Mark and via Geno that you don't start rookie Qbs esp a guy who regressed in college. 

[HessStation]

It's an easy A. **** off if you don't agree. O ye, of little faith. 

[Bocajetfan]

8 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Fair write-up and pretty much where we're at. It will be interesting to see what the Jets do if Fitz is gone. Hoyer? Or will they go with Geno?

By all accounts Fitz last year worked well as a mentor and I would like to see him continue that role. Not sure that Hoyer fills that role so from a cost stand point as much as it pains me it's the three young guys. Geno , Petty and Hack. Hoyer may get more wins next year but is not the future and if he can't help develop the future he has no value

[UnitedWhofans]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well Kim Jones said that Mac drove over 200 miles to watch him work out. And the Jets did a lot of work on this guy. But his old coach wasn't interested which says a lot. If Mac did say that Hack could start this year that says a lot. But if he does start and lt's Geno Smith part 2 then there's going to be airplanes flown over Met Life. This is not supposed to be a rebuilding year. We should have learned our lessons via Mark and via Geno that you don't start rookie Qbs esp a guy who regressed in college. 

HIs old coach wasnt interested because they just spent a ton of money on Osweiler.

Falling into the trap

Edited April 30, 2016 by UnitedWhofans

[Integrity28]

53 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

that is unlikely to happen.  if they thought petty was ready or close to ready they would not have taken a qb in the 2nd round.  

Unbiased experts considered Petty a 2-3 year project. Teams knew that he needed to learn how to read a defense, make progressions, take a snap under centere, make pre-snap reads, audible, etc. In college, the system he ran was as simple as it gets. We spent a 4th rounder on him and traded for Fitz in the same off-season last year. 

Hackenberg, because he's had pro-style experience, might have more of an accelerated timeline with regards to learning the pro game. We took him with a 2nd round pick, and we're still going to likely add a veteran.

So in two years, Mac will have drafted and signed a vet to address QB both years. What this tells me is that he believes in over-stocking the cupboard. Sure, you may only have cans of tuna and beans, but at least you aren't going to go hungry.

The fans, and media, that think drafting Hack = giving up on Petty are stupid. No offense if this is your position, but it implies that you were okay with letting 2-3 years go before we found out what we have in Petty. 3 years is the length of most careers in the NFL. No, from the standpoint of investing... which I don't pretend to be an "expert" at, it was okay to own both Amazon and Google stock 15 years ago or whatever. Maybe both pay off, maybe neither do, or maybe only one does... but there's nothing wrong with diversifying the portfolio with stocks/QBs that could pay off bigtime.

Anyway, tangential analogy aside... fans need to stop assuming the Hack selection "means things" about Petty. So many of us have advocated taking a QB every year until you find one... now they are doing it, and people aren't sure whether to sh*t or piss. In the same way Mac wants a "pipeline of LBers" doesn't it make sense, since QBs are the most valuable currency in the game, to have a pipeline of QB talent as well?

I think so.

[Integrity28]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

This is not supposed to be a rebuilding year.

No year is "supposed" to be a rebuilding year, until it goes to sh*t and the PR department tells the fans it is a rebuilding year.

[Augustiniak]

4 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Well Kim Jones said that Mac drove over 200 miles to watch him work out. And the Jets did a lot of work on this guy. But his old coach wasn't interested which says a lot. If Mac did say that Hack could start this year that says a lot. But if he does start and lt's Geno Smith part 2 then there's going to be airplanes flown over Met Life. This is not supposed to be a rebuilding year. We should have learned our lessons via Mark and via Geno that you don't start rookie Qbs esp a guy who regressed in college. 

prove to me that his old coach isn't interested.  the gm makes the decisions.  how could houston, who made the playoffs last year, trust they'd get hackenberg in the draft anyway?  what team would take that much of a risk?

[Integrity28]

3 minutes ago, HessStation said:

It's an easy A. **** off if you don't agree. O ye, of little faith. 

I just came struttin' in to give you a double high five. 

[Integrity28]

36 minutes ago, neckdemon said:

i'm starting it off with a B. kid has a very high ceiling. but obviously can bust. we will see.

Every player can bust.

I prefer my busts to be DD... err.... I mean, I prefer my busts to be non-first rounders if at all.

[Rangers9]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

prove to me that his old coach isn't interested.  the gm makes the decisions.  how could houston, who made the playoffs last year, trust they'd get hackenberg in the draft anyway?  what team would take that much of a risk?

I can't prove anything just like the Fitz baiters can't prove he is asking for unreasonable money. But it makes sense that the Houston GM would listen to O'Brien esp about Hack. btw the Texans traded up to jump us and didn't draft Hack. 

[T0mShane]

So, just watched the stupid Gruden camp thing looking for signs of hope and I counted the times he implicitly or directly blamed other people for his problems. I stopped counting at about 90 times. Comes off as an entitled douche who wanted credit for playing with lessers. Brandon Marshall is going to execute this wimp.

[Bruce Harper]

11 hours ago, Kleckineau said:

Could have gotten Tebow back for a fraction of the cost with the same results.

[afosomf]

2 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

So, just watched the stupid Gruden camp thing looking for signs of hope and I counted the times he implicitly or directly blamed other people for his problems. I stopped counting at about 90 times. Comes off as an entitled douche who wanted credit for playing with lessers. Brandon Marshall is going to execute this wimp.

Why so serious

[Augustiniak]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I can't prove anything just like the Fitz baiters can't prove he is asking for unreasonable money. But it makes sense that the Houston GM would listen to O'Brien esp about Hack. btw the Texans traded up to jump us and didn't draft Hack. 

they just paid 18 million a year for a qb.  why would they draft one in the 2nd round?

[Integrity28]

 

[Bocajetfan]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I can't prove anything just like the Fitz baiters can't prove he is asking for unreasonable money. But it makes sense that the Houston GM would listen to O'Brien esp about Hack. btw the Texans traded up to jump us and didn't draft Hack. 

If Huston jumped us for Hack would they then have the Bradford issue entering the season and a fan base frustrated by the revolving door at OB even more frustrated 

[HessStation]

19 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I just came struttin' in to give you a double high five. 

[SR24]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2015/insider/story/_/id/12836848/christian-hackenberg-tops-way-too-early-2016-mock-draft-nfl-draft

 

Look who's the #1 pick in Mcshays way to early mock for 2016

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

What if Hack never starts because Petty becomes a star?

I guess he gets fired? Or if he's a solid backup then what?  Lol

 

[PatsFanTX]

So, just watched the stupid Gruden camp thing looking for signs of hope and I counted the times he implicitly or directly blamed other people for his problems. I stopped counting at about 90 times. Comes off as an entitled douche who wanted credit for playing with lessers. Brandon Marshall is going to execute this wimp.

Marshall will claim Hack is the best QB he has ever played with.

[Irish Jet]

All snide comments aside there's so much that terrifies me about Hackenberg. I couldn't give a f*ck what Pro Football Focus has to say- A site run by guys who were in love with Tavaris Jackson and Colt Brennan - I'm judging by what I've seen myself and I've watched basically everything I could find since we've drafted him. 

The game tape really is shockingly bad and ultimately the positives all seem based on hypotheticals. The only reassurance to me is that Mac seriously believes he can be salvaged and I have to assume Gailey believes it too.

What confuses me about that though is based on the tape alone, Hackenberg seems to be the compete antithesis of what a Gailey QB should be. Last year we got by with Fitz despite an awful offensive line because we could fall back on the short passing game - The quick screens, the slants, fades - They were very well executed and covered up a lot of issues. Hackenberg clearly couldn't fall back on this at Penn St. which was a huge factor on those sack numbers. And you can see from the highlights that they tried implementing it but every slant and screen seemed to be an adventure with him, which we can relate to all too well with Sanchez/Geno. Some plays that are clearly there to be made are just inexplicably thrown straight towards defensive backs, defensive linemen and at times to absolutely no one, pressure or not. The accuracy is just wild.

You can perhaps put this down to being shaken by the awful line play, a lack of confidence in them as well as the WR's but this isn't something that's likely to go away when your being chased by bigger, stronger and faster athletes in the NFL. I really worry the guy is broken, that he was an elite prospect but slowly had it beaten out of him. He's hopeful that the NFL is a "fresh start" which tells me he was really being dragged through the mire in those last two years and it's definitely taken it's toll mentally and physically. We got to hope he does an Alex Smith rather than a David Carr but I think it's pretty delusional for him or us to expect this will get easier in the NFL. One thing for sure is that he's going to need time, even if for no other reason than to rest up. If he plays significant time this season then he's got zero chance, and I mean that. I hope the fan-base realises that and it's the reason going in to the season with the current QB's is essentially an impossibility from a practical standpoint. 

I really don't want to be negative like this and I've been saying for weeks that with the draft you can always be hopeful if nothing else. Ultimately no one knows how he'll turn out but as much as I want to like this pick and as much as I'm searching for redeeming features, the indicators are just truly awful. I hope more than anything he makes a total idiot out of me and a lot of others. If he does Mac would be hailed as a genius and rightfully so but I can only go by the evidence that's there - Not the prospect he was or what he might have been in another situation - When your escaping from reality to try and make a point, you're probably grasping at straws.

[Gas2No99]

It's a SOUND pick that once again gives us a physically talented young prospect at the QB position just like in 2013. The same complaints exist - needs to sit & learn pro game, perfect technique/mechanics, diagnose defenses better, etc. - as there are obvious things to like and hate about Hackenberg, the physical talent is worth the gamble in the 2nd round at the game's premier position. 

HOPEFULLY we can harness his talent and polish the turd of the past 2 years into AMAZING FERTILIZER that will propel the Jets offense to BLOSSOM into one of the better air attacks in the league.  

I'm not excited by the pick, but understand it. He's a Jet now and hopefully he can help guide us to the Promised Land.

 

alas, Kevin Hogan  . . .  

[PepPep]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Unbiased experts considered Petty a 2-3 year project. Teams knew that he needed to learn how to read a defense, make progressions, take a snap under centere, make pre-snap reads, audible, etc. In college, the system he ran was as simple as it gets. We spent a 4th rounder on him and traded for Fitz in the same off-season last year. 

Hackenberg, because he's had pro-style experience, might have more of an accelerated timeline with regards to learning the pro game. We took him with a 2nd round pick, and we're still going to likely add a veteran.

So in two years, Mac will have drafted and signed a vet to address QB both years. What this tells me is that he believes in over-stocking the cupboard. Sure, you may only have cans of tuna and beans, but at least you aren't going to go hungry.

The fans, and media, that think drafting Hack = giving up on Petty are stupid. No offense if this is your position, but it implies that you were okay with letting 2-3 years go before we found out what we have in Petty. 3 years is the length of most careers in the NFL. No, from the standpoint of investing... which I don't pretend to be an "expert" at, it was okay to own both Amazon and Google stock 15 years ago or whatever. Maybe both pay off, maybe neither do, or maybe only one does... but there's nothing wrong with diversifying the portfolio with stocks/QBs that could pay off bigtime.

Anyway, tangential analogy aside... fans need to stop assuming the Hack selection "means things" about Petty. So many of us have advocated taking a QB every year until you find one... now they are doing it, and people aren't sure whether to sh*t or piss. In the same way Mac wants a "pipeline of LBers" doesn't it make sense, since QBs are the most valuable currency in the game, to have a pipeline of QB talent as well?

I think so.

I pretty much agree with this. But I will say that they were looking at Hack closely and took him early, Petty was much more of a flier in the 4th. So you have to think they see alittle more in Hack.

But I really don't think its unreasonable to go into the season with 4 QBs. Especially if you have 2 that are still learning. The common sense says Geno will be cut, but if he plays well, why would they cut him? Right now Bowles said Geno gets 1st team reps, which is factual but also means nothing until they get in camp and get on the field. If Fitz returns, I don't see how the Jets can rely on Hack or Petty as a backup. Not to mention its Genos contract year after sitting all season and learning the system.  

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, PepPep said:

I pretty much agree with this. But I will say that they were looking at Hack closely and took him early, Petty was much more of a flier in the 4th. So you have to think they see alittle more in Hack.

But I really don't think its unreasonable to go into the season with 4 QBs. Especially if you have 2 that are still learning. The common sense says Geno will be cut, but if he plays well, why would they cut him? Right now Bowles said Geno gets 1st team reps, which is factual but also means nothing until they get in camp and get on the field.

No, you don't cut a player who is playing well.

[Gas2No99]

2 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

All snide comments aside there's so much that terrifies me about Hackenberg. I couldn't give a f*ck what Pro Football Focus has to say- A site run by guys who were in love with Tavaris Jackson and Colt Brennan - I'm judging by what I've seen myself and I've watched basically everything I could find since we've drafted him. 

The game tape really is shockingly bad and ultimately the positives all seem based on hypotheticals. The only reassurance to me is that Mac seriously believes he can be salvaged and I have to assume Gailey believes it too.

What confuses me about that though is based on the tape alone, Hackenberg seems to be the compete antithesis of what a Gailey QB should be. Last year we got by with Fitz despite an awful offensive line because we could fall back on the short passing game - The quick screens, the slants, fades - They were very well executed and covered up a lot of issues. Hackenberg clearly couldn't fall back on this at Penn St. which was a huge factor on those sack numbers. And you can see from the highlights that they tried implementing it but every slant and screen seemed to be an adventure with him, which we can relate to all too well with Sanchez/Geno. Some plays that are clearly there to be made are just inexplicably thrown straight towards defensive backs, defensive linemen and at times to absolutely no one, pressure or not. The accuracy is just wild.

You can perhaps put this down to being shaken by the awful line play, a lack of confidence in them as well as the WR's but this isn't something that's likely to go away when your being chased by bigger, stronger and faster athletes in the NFL. I really worry the guy is broken, that he was an elite prospect but slowly had it beaten out of him. He's hopeful that the NFL is a "fresh start" which tells me he was really being dragged through the mire in those last two years and it's definitely taken it's toll mentally and physically. We got to hope he does an Alex Smith rather than a David Carr but I think it's pretty delusional for him or us to expect this will get easier in the NFL. One thing for sure is that he's going to need time, even if for no other reason than to rest up. If he plays significant time this season then he's got zero chance, and I mean that. I hope the fan-base realises that and it's the reason going in to the season with the current QB's is essentially an impossibility from a practical standpoint. 

I really don't want to be negative like this and I've been saying for weeks that with the draft you can always be hopeful if nothing else. Ultimately no one knows how he'll turn out but as much as I want to like this pick and as much as I'm searching for redeeming features, the indicators are just truly awful. I hope more than anything he makes a total idiot out of me and a lot of others. If he does Mac would be hailed as a genius and rightfully so but I can only go by the evidence that's there - Not the prospect he was or what he might have been in another situation - When your escaping from reality to try and make a point, you're probably grasping at straws.

Everything you typed I agree with and SCARES me about him, but what is done is done and you just PRAY that the Coaching Staff is resolute that they can fix his bad habits as he CONTINUES TO GROW into the QB position now at the PRO level. 

[TuscanyTile2]

I didn't follow Hack's career (I don't watch much CFB) but I can't ever remember reading such horrible scouting reviews on a QB drafted in the 2nd round.  (e.g. non existent feel or awareness in the pocket, stares down targets, inexplicable decisions, etc). 

I've also read that he has all the tools and was seen as a potential #1 overall pick at one point.  So if Macc thinks he was worth the risk then I'm fully behind it.  It sounds like it can legitimately be anywhere from an A+ to an F- but I'm going to give this move a B in support of Macc.

 

[Gas2No99]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I didn't follow Hack's career (I don't watch much CFB) but I can't ever remember reading such horrible scouting reviews on a QB drafted in the 2nd round.  (e.g. non existent feel or awareness in the pocket, stares down targets, inexplicable decisions, etc). 

I've also read that he has all the tools and was seen as a potential #1 overall pick at one point.  So if Macc thinks he was worth the risk then I'm fully behind it.  It sounds like it can legitimately be anywhere from an A+ to an F- but I'm going to give this move a B in support of Macc.

 

There's no such thing as an F-

You simply FAIL.

When you Die, you are DEAD. You don't Die AND then get kicked in the nuts afterwards as if that exacerbates your pain to the fact you are already dead.  

[Bocajetfan]

4 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

There's no such thing as an F-

You simply FAIL.

When you Die, you are DEAD. You don't Die AND then get kicked in the nuts afterwards as if that exacerbates your pain to the fact you are already dead.  

So I guess you don't believe in reincarnation 

[PatsFanTX]

There's no such thing as an F-.  

Is there such a thing as a F+?

[Gas2No99]

Just now, Bocajetfan said:

So I guess you don't believe in reincarnation 

uh . . . . hello,

The 2015 Jets QB position was ALL ABOUT REINCARNATION - from the Career Season to the Beard! 

[TuscanyTile2]

10 minutes ago, Gas2No99 said:

There's no such thing as an F-

You simply FAIL.

When you Die, you are DEAD. You don't Die AND then get kicked in the nuts afterwards as if that exacerbates your pain to the fact you are already dead.  

Tell the creator of the poll that.  I was just going by the options given to me.

[Gas2No99]

2 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Is there such a thing as a F+?

You are about as close to representing that theoretical notion on this board w/your provocative & snarkingly witty remarks. 

I liked the Cyrus Jones pick, what you think of the Jacoby Brisset pick? A bit high for the 3rd round, no?

[PatsFanTX]

You are about as close to representing that theoretical notion on this board w/your provocative & snarkingly witty remarks. 

I liked the Cyrus Jones pick, what you think of the Jacoby Brisset pick? A bit high for the 3rd round, no?

I'm glad the Pats are drafting QB's now, and not 3-4 years down the road.

Yea, Brisset was a bit high (I wanted Pats to go DL with that pick) but both Parcells and Charlie Weiss (his OC at Florida) were very high on him.

If Brisset pans out, it will give the Pats some leverage when Jimmy G becomes a FA in 2017.