My Thoughts-the Jets QB Position

[varjet]

• In drafting NFL QBs, teams are consistently faced with drafting college QBs who have not functioned in an NFL system.  In Hackenberg, they have a QB who, in addition, to meeting all of the physical criteria, actually came to college as an 18 year, learned an NFL-like system over the Summer, and executed it well.  I also believe that football player success is often attributable to the system that they are in, their surrounding cast, and their coaching.   All three can't be bad.  Thus, in addition to blind faith in the GM and coaches, I think the Hackenberg pick is a credible one.   But if he completely bombs and Lynch and/or Cook turn out to be good, that is a sign the MacC does not know how to evaluate a QB ultimately, and unless he gets lucky somewhere else, it will need to his downfall.   I ignorantly suspect perhaps that the Jets experience with Petty last year trying to teach him a pro offense may have influenced this selection.   As Woody is always involved, winning now is always important, so I don't think 2 long term developments were the answer.
• I continue to believe that Fitz for 8/year, for 2 years, is the right amount, although he could ultimately get a bit more. Fitz and Sexton have been ignoring the fact that his success last year was also due to 14mm for 2 WR and a coach that could probably make me into an NFL QB.  If he wants more than 8, he can explain to Mangold, Marshall and Decker why they need to give up money to pay him. But signing him is really a stopgap move to put the best team on the field today.  It will cost us in draft pick quality next year.  He is not the long term answer, but because he can move, is smart and can get the ball out fast, he covers up for Breno and WInters.
• Starting Geno in 2016 is not ridiculous and could be a fair stopgap until Hackenberg/Petty (see below) is ready.  He is decent enough to help develop the other players and will basically solve the OL problem, as we will pick high next year in all rounds.  If he plays well and signs elsewhere, that is a good comp pick.  I think he is a plan B, but is very viable one if Fitz will not play for under 10/year.
• I am not getting the Petty negativity.  He is learning and developing, and could be a viable no 2 like Glennon with upside.  And let's remember that the Redskins took Cousins the same year as Griffin III-who has the big contract now?  And if Hackenberg starts next year and gets hurt (not unlikely, if only for a little while), he gets to play and show his skills.  Petty is an asset and a positive, not a liability and a negative.
• Hopefully Fitz signs for 2 so that we don't have to pick a QB next year (maybe very late round that can go on the PS).  After that though, you keep picking them.
• If two young QBs and counting, OL needs to become priority 1.   The Jets should find a way to sign a FA Center next year.
• If I am a HS QB, I am only looking at schools that play a pro style offense.
• History will tell us why Connor Cook made it to the 4th round.  My guess is that Geno could have influenced that-people will shy away from a QB that his teammates dislike.  An important part of the QB job is to earn the respect of your teammates.

[k-met57]

The more guys you have for camp the better chance of finding one that sticks. Its that simple. Let Geno, Petty, and hack fight it out... Even if Fitz is anointed starter for 1 year.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ben Had]

I believe that Geno will be cut by the end of training camp. Fitz & the Jets will agree to split their differences and will sign soon. 

[LIJetsFan]

Excellent post, OP.

My only quibble is that I want Geno/Petty/Hack to fight it out for the start, and I do not want to pay Fitz more than we've already offered.  I can do w/o Fitz or any other vet presence this year. 

[bostonmajet]

Sorry, I don't buy all of the if Hack sucks or Lynch/Cook are great it shows that Macc is lost in QB evaluations. This isn't targeted directly against the OP. What many fail to understand is that the draft is a crap shoot especially at the QB position. Nobody has a 100% record (not even close). Missing on a QB or passing over a QB is not a sign of incompetence - it is just the way it is. If Cook turns out to be a winner, and that is a sign of Macc not knowing what he is doing, than he is in good company as all the teams passed on him 3 to 4 times. Also consider the following:

1. Different QB will succeed/fail under different circumstances. Success in Denver does not mean Lynch would have succeeded in NY. One thing I kept hearing was his lack of maturity; The NY press will crush someone like that (remember all of the heat Sanchez took for his immaturity). If you can say one thing for Hack; he is mentally tough - look what he had to deal with during the pre-draft process.

2. Sometimes (especially if you need a franchise QB and don't draft year after year in the top 5) you have to take a gamble. Big arm, mature, played a pro style offense as a freshman - his ceiling is much higher than some; Macc took a gamble, but you don't fire a guy for taking calculated risks.

3. Different team need to draft differently than othes (this is different than point #1). If you have a franchise QB (or someone you think will be one) you can afford to wait until round 4 to gamble on a Cook (like Raiders). When you don't have a franchise QB (or don't know if last year's 4th round pick will be one) you need to take more chances. People weren't happy with possibly 'wasting' a round 2 pick; consider the Pats with a HOF QB, and a qualify backup (round 2 selection when they had Brady) just 'wasted' a 3rd round pick on a QB. If we still had our franchise QB and drafted a QB in the 3rd this year, or 2nd in a previous draft would be all over BB. But Mac rolls the dice and he is a failure if it doesn't work out - I don't get it.

[RutgersJetFan]

Starting Geno would be completely ridiculous. That would make it 4 seasons in a row that the Jets have gone into camp literally handing him the job. And the man has never had to do one thing to earn it. Having to compete with Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg is by no means battling it out. That's like putting me in front of a river next to a bear and a piece of rhubarb pie, and then saying the three of us are battling it out for salmon.

Geno shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Hackenberg. The man has nothing to offer in terms of helping either prospect develop. What's he going to teach them? How to handle NY? Little tips for handling playing on the west coast? How to treat teammates? How to act like a grownup? How to not throw a gazillion interceptions? How to not tuck the ball behind your back with one hand when you're getting sacked in the end zone?

Addition by subtraction. He needs to be cut.

[Beerfish]

The one good thing about them starting Geno would be it would save me a bunch of cash for NFL network.  In any case he will be cut, as I;ve been saying since half way though last year.  They will get a vet, and cut geno.

[joewilly12]

3 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Starting Geno would be completely ridiculous. That would make it 4 seasons in a row that the Jets have gone into camp literally handing him the job. And the man has never had to do one thing to earn it. Having to compete with Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg is by no means battling it out. That's like putting me in front of a river next to a bear and a piece of rhubarb pie, and then saying the three of us are battling it out for salmon.

Geno shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Hackenberg. The man has nothing to offer in terms of helping either prospect develop. What's he going to teach them? How to handle NY? Little tips for handling playing on the west coast? How to treat teammates? How to act like a grownup? How to not throw a gazillion interceptions? How to not tuck the ball behind your back with one hand when you're getting sacked in the end zone?

Addition by subtraction. He needs to be cut.

Fitzpatrick the journeyman bum flourished here with Gailey,Decker and Marshall Geno could surpass what Fitz accomplished here. 

STOP the HATE.

[RutgersJetFan]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick the journeyman bum flourished here with Gailey,Decker and Marshall Geno could surpass what Fitz accomplished here. 

STOP the HATE.

And if you needed any more confirmation of said point, ^ there it is.

[joewilly12]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

And if you needed any more confirmation of said point, ^ there it is.

Fitzpatrick is a greedy journeyman bum who FAILED to make the playoffs here and choked when we needed him most. 

6 teams in 11 years for a reason and yet some Jets fans think he's the franchise QB we have lacked for so damn long. 

Rah rah.........

[Beerfish]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick the journeyman bum flourished here with Gailey,Decker and Marshall Geno could surpass what Fitz accomplished here. 

STOP the HATE.

!/2 year of Geno would drive Gailey back into retirement, or a heart attack.

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick is a greedy journeyman bum who FAILED to make the playoffs here and choked when we needed him most. 

6 teams in 11 years for a reason and yet some Jets fans think he's the franchise QB we have lacked for so damn long. 

Rah rah.........

[joewilly12]

Just now, Beerfish said:

!/2 year of Geno would drive Gailey back into retirement, or a heart attack.

Doubt it the offense most certainly would open up with a strong arm QB who can throw the deep ball. 

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Fitzpatrick lovers remind a lot of a little kid in candy store with a pocket full of money, there mind goes blank and all they see is candy........which will make them sick if they eat too much of it. 

 

[Larz]

I think we have to wait until probably June to even know who is going to be at camp so until then lets just say we could use a veteran to hold the fort until hack is ready

 

[Savage69]

5 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick is a greedy journeyman bum who FAILED to make the playoffs here and choked when we needed him most. 

6 teams in 11 years for a reason and yet some Jets fans think he's the franchise QB we have lacked for so damn long. 

Rah rah.........

The last game of the year is when Geno excels too bad we weren't playing the Fins in Miami= Playoffs..

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick lovers remind a lot of a little kid in candy store with a pocket full of money, thee mind goes blank and all they see is candy........which will make them sick if they eat too much of it. 

I have no idea what the hell you are babbling incoherently about. Nobody said anything about Ryan Fitzpatrick. You are making no sense as usual. Go away.

[Kevin L]

12 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Starting Geno would be completely ridiculous. That would make it 4 seasons in a row that the Jets have gone into camp literally handing him the job. And the man has never had to do one thing to earn it. Having to compete with Bryce Petty and Christian Hackenberg is by no means battling it out. That's like putting me in front of a river next to a bear and a piece of rhubarb pie, and then saying the three of us are battling it out for salmon.

Geno shouldn't be allowed anywhere near Hackenberg. The man has nothing to offer in terms of helping either prospect develop. What's he going to teach them? How to handle NY? Little tips for handling playing on the west coast? How to treat teammates? How to act like a grownup? How to not throw a gazillion interceptions? How to not tuck the ball behind your back with one hand when you're getting sacked in the end zone?

Addition by subtraction. He needs to be cut.

I have to disagree. By all accounts Geno won the starting job last year before getting his jaw broken. Petty isn't ready and I'd rather not rush Hackenberg. If Fitz doesn't sign, Geno should start.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I have no idea what the hell you are babbling incoherently about. Nobody said anything about Ryan Fitzpatrick. You are making no sense as usual. Go away.

Cant handle the truth again. 

 

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, joewilly12 said:

Cant handle the truth again. 

 

I am not a Fitzpatrick lover. You are mistaking me for someone else. I literally said nothing about Ryan Fitzpatrick. Again. Go away.

[joewilly12]

2 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

The last game of the year is when Geno excels too bad we weren't playing the Fins in Miami= Playoffs..

Fitz choked 3 INTs in a row being ignored by his followers.  Fitz lost that last game of the season for the Jets. 

Im glad Macc and Bowles arent paying him what he isn't worth. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, RutgersJetFan said:

I am not a Fitzpatrick lover. You are mistaking me for someone else. I literally said nothing about Ryan Fitzpatrick. Again. Go away.

STOP responding or put me on IGNORE 

Any Rutgers players get arrested last night

[Cyberjet]

9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Fitzpatrick is a greedy journeyman bum who FAILED to make the playoffs here and choked when we needed him most. 

6 teams in 11 years for a reason and yet some Jets fans think he's the franchise QB we have lacked for so damn long. 

Rah rah.........

 

I like Fitz but not as a franchise QB. I agree that last game was a disappointment with Fitz which is one reason the Jets are not giving him star $$. However I don't blame any football player trying to max  his return.

I like Fitz because he is very football smart. Knows the game from a QB perspective and would provide an excellent environment for these developing QBs plus he will manage the game very well as a stop gap measure. Hell Denver just won a SB with a crap QB performance throughout the year.

[RutgersJetFan]

1 minute ago, joewilly12 said:

STOP responding or put me on IGNORE 

Any Rutgers players get arrested last night

Sigh. What a sad, sad old man you are.

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, RutgersJetFan said:

Sigh. What a sad, sad old man you are.

Blah blah blah what did you say, sad individual you truly are.

[Patriot Killa]

1 hour ago, varjet said:

• In drafting NFL QBs, teams are consistently faced with drafting college QBs who have not functioned in an NFL system.  In Hackenberg, they have a QB who, in addition, to meeting all of the physical criteria, actually came to college as an 18 year, learned an NFL-like system over the Summer, and executed it well.  I also believe that football player success is often attributable to the system that they are in, their surrounding cast, and their coaching.   All three can't be bad.  Thus, in addition to blind faith in the GM and coaches, I think the Hackenberg pick is a credible one.   But if he completely bombs and Lynch and/or Cook turn out to be good, that is a sign the MacC does not know how to evaluate a QB ultimately, and unless he gets lucky somewhere else, it will need to his downfall.   I ignorantly suspect perhaps that the Jets experience with Petty last year trying to teach him a pro offense may have influenced this selection.   As Woody is always involved, winning now is always important, so I don't think 2 long term developments were the answer.
• I continue to believe that Fitz for 8/year, for 2 years, is the right amount, although he could ultimately get a bit more. Fitz and Sexton have been ignoring the fact that his success last year was also due to 14mm for 2 WR and a coach that could probably make me into an NFL QB.  If he wants more than 8, he can explain to Mangold, Marshall and Decker why they need to give up money to pay him. But signing him is really a stopgap move to put the best team on the field today.  It will cost us in draft pick quality next year.  He is not the long term answer, but because he can move, is smart and can get the ball out fast, he covers up for Breno and WInters.
• Starting Geno in 2016 is not ridiculous and could be a fair stopgap until Hackenberg/Petty (see below) is ready.  He is decent enough to help develop the other players and will basically solve the OL problem, as we will pick high next year in all rounds.  If he plays well and signs elsewhere, that is a good comp pick.  I think he is a plan B, but is very viable one if Fitz will not play for under 10/year.
• I am not getting the Petty negativity.  He is learning and developing, and could be a viable no 2 like Glennon with upside.  And let's remember that the Redskins took Cousins the same year as Griffin III-who has the big contract now?  And if Hackenberg starts next year and gets hurt (not unlikely, if only for a little while), he gets to play and show his skills.  Petty is an asset and a positive, not a liability and a negative.
• Hopefully Fitz signs for 2 so that we don't have to pick a QB next year (maybe very late round that can go on the PS).  After that though, you keep picking them.
• If two young QBs and counting, OL needs to become priority 1.   The Jets should find a way to sign a FA Center next year.
• If I am a HS QB, I am only looking at schools that play a pro style offense.
• History will tell us why Connor Cook made it to the 4th round.  My guess is that Geno could have influenced that-people will shy away from a QB that his teammates dislike.  An important part of the QB job is to earn the respect of your teammates.

nicely put

[JoJoTownsell1]

Better chance that Hackenberg wins starting job than Geno coming out of camp as starter

[joewilly12]

4 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

 

I like Fitz but not as a franchise QB. I agree that last game was a disappointment with Fitz which is one reason the Jets are not giving him star $$. However I don't blame any football player trying to max  his return.

I like Fitz because he is very football smart. Knows the game from a QB perspective and would provide an excellent environment for these developing QBs plus he will manage the game very well as a stop gap measure. Hell Denver just won a SB with a crap QB performance throughout the year.

He manages a game yes but he cant win the big game or does he put you into position to do so. Good person good player but we've seen his best time to move on. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Better chance that Hackenberg wins starting job than Geno coming out of camp as starter

May the best QB win between Geno-Petty and Hackenburg

[JoJoTownsell1]

34 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

May the best QB win between Geno-Petty and Hackenburg

Agreed.  All 3 have experience in a pro style offense.  No reason to get into bidding war with ourselves for a journeyman  qb that doesn't appreciate what he was gifted last year.  

 

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

Nice thread starter OP, I agree the Jets needed to draft a QB (until they find one), but there were other options to "Lee, Hack" such as "Lynch, Cravens or Jones" both Cravens and Jones went right after our 2nd rounder if either one turns out better then Lee and Lynch looks good, the banner planes will fly.  I do think Lee will be great in Bowles defense (assuming we keep Mo) once fans see a pick six on a screen that burned this defense last year, they will be happy too but we are talking Qb's

I think Mac can survive Hack if he treats the player like he did the pick; "a lottery ticket",  if Hack shows the development progress they expect then let it ride and get him ready to start sometime next year but if the numbers aren't hitting then tear it up and throw it away.  I want Hack to succeed but if he doesn't, I would prefer he was a camp casualty then spending the next four years in QB purgatory waiting for him to develop. 

Seems like that is exactly what Mac did with Petty, did not see franchise potential and drafted another one (hack in the 2nd), maybe next year he uses the first round pick, just need 1 to hit 

[win4ever]

5 hours ago, varjet said:

• In drafting NFL QBs, teams are consistently faced with drafting college QBs who have not functioned in an NFL system.  In Hackenberg, they have a QB who, in addition, to meeting all of the physical criteria, actually came to college as an 18 year, learned an NFL-like system over the Summer, and executed it well.  I also believe that football player success is often attributable to the system that they are in, their surrounding cast, and their coaching.   All three can't be bad.  Thus, in addition to blind faith in the GM and coaches, I think the Hackenberg pick is a credible one.   But if he completely bombs and Lynch and/or Cook turn out to be good, that is a sign the MacC does not know how to evaluate a QB ultimately, and unless he gets lucky somewhere else, it will need to his downfall.   I ignorantly suspect perhaps that the Jets experience with Petty last year trying to teach him a pro offense may have influenced this selection.   As Woody is always involved, winning now is always important, so I don't think 2 long term developments were the answer.
• I continue to believe that Fitz for 8/year, for 2 years, is the right amount, although he could ultimately get a bit more. Fitz and Sexton have been ignoring the fact that his success last year was also due to 14mm for 2 WR and a coach that could probably make me into an NFL QB.  If he wants more than 8, he can explain to Mangold, Marshall and Decker why they need to give up money to pay him. But signing him is really a stopgap move to put the best team on the field today.  It will cost us in draft pick quality next year.  He is not the long term answer, but because he can move, is smart and can get the ball out fast, he covers up for Breno and WInters.
• Starting Geno in 2016 is not ridiculous and could be a fair stopgap until Hackenberg/Petty (see below) is ready.  He is decent enough to help develop the other players and will basically solve the OL problem, as we will pick high next year in all rounds.  If he plays well and signs elsewhere, that is a good comp pick.  I think he is a plan B, but is very viable one if Fitz will not play for under 10/year.
• I am not getting the Petty negativity.  He is learning and developing, and could be a viable no 2 like Glennon with upside.  And let's remember that the Redskins took Cousins the same year as Griffin III-who has the big contract now?  And if Hackenberg starts next year and gets hurt (not unlikely, if only for a little while), he gets to play and show his skills.  Petty is an asset and a positive, not a liability and a negative.
• Hopefully Fitz signs for 2 so that we don't have to pick a QB next year (maybe very late round that can go on the PS).  After that though, you keep picking them.
• If two young QBs and counting, OL needs to become priority 1.   The Jets should find a way to sign a FA Center next year.
• If I am a HS QB, I am only looking at schools that play a pro style offense.
• History will tell us why Connor Cook made it to the 4th round.  My guess is that Geno could have influenced that-people will shy away from a QB that his teammates dislike.  An important part of the QB job is to earn the respect of your teammates.

1.   While I like the pro-system argument when it comes to his transition, he only played in it for one season.  James Franklin doesn't have a pro-system.  It might not even be an amateur system, I'm pretty sure there are some high school systems better than James Franklin on offense.  Technically, he runs a spread system, but it's quite possibly one of the worst.  Now granted, he couldn't recruit like big time teams at Vandy, and the sanctions at PSU, but this guy has a horrible offense.  He plays the grind you down, and hope to get a win late in the game type plan, which is usually thrown out the window against good teams when they are down 20 and can't score.   At this point. Hackenberg needs a system cleansing, and start over again, a system bowles movement if you will.  (I know)

2.  Fitz is set for life, at this point it's an ego issue.  He feels like he was on a prove it contract, and he proved it, and wants security.  He knows as well as the Jets that he's not coming close to that kind of production against this schedule the upcoming season, so ofcourse he doesn't want another more lucrative prove it contract.  He wants multi-year security.  His agent knows this, and so do the Jets.  The Jets are better off ignoring him, as every team has gone away from the guy.  If he wants to play, he can pick up the phone and say I'll take the low offer because I can't get anything else.  If not, he has enough money to not work again in his life, and the Jets have enough options that Macc doesn't have to spike his coffee with vodka yet.  

3.  Playing Geno makes sense.  He's in a contract year, and if last year was an indication, he loves to hang onto his money.  He has the motivation after losing his job last year, and he does have talent.  The schedule is rough, but if you give me a choice of Osweiller or Geno, I'll take Geno.  Although I wouldn't pay either the ridiculous money that Brock got, I think Geno is a better QB.  Fans hate him because the team sucked and they need to blame someone.  He's a better fit for this offense, and cheap.  If he does well this year, we can resign him (Cousins situation) and still have Hackenberg and Petty for 3 and 2 more years respectively.  If he doesn't, we can let him go with no costs.  It makes much more financial sense than signing Fitz to a 2 year deal.  

4.  Petty has potential, but he also has a big learning curve.  Similar to Hackenberg, he really needs a system cleansing at first, because the college system while highly successful doesn't work.  You need speed to accomplish the system, main purpose being you are faster than the opponent, alas you are looking for that one on one matchup at the LOS and betting your guy beats their guy with his speed advantage.  This is why someone like Kenyon Barner looks amazing in college, and bad in the NFL because the defense is just as fast as you are.  I like Petty (not franchise level, but Glennon level in the future) but he does need to improve quite a bit.  He seemed to struggle in the pocket last season in the pre-season.

5.  From the schedule, even if we sign Fitz, we're picking close to the top 10 than top 20.  I would rather not commit anything to Fitz, go with Geno, and if we struggle, be free to actually pick a QB without wasting talent.  If Fitz is signed for two years, and he struggles, then we might have to pick another QB next year, but our roster would still have Fitz/Petty/Hackenberg.  Therefore, if we pick up someone via draft or FA, we have to either bite the money on Fitz or dump one of Hackenberg/Petty.  If it's Geno, we don't have to do it, because Geno would be gone.  It's very rare teams carry 4QB (the most recent I think were the Chiefs) so a 3 QB set up works better.  

6.  OLine always needs to be a priority.  I'm guessing next year's free agency is going to be about the OLine.  

7.  This one is tricky, I'm not sure if it's always the best idea.  Jake Coker was a high recruit that played at Alabama this past year, won a championship and he dropped like a rock.  I think if you have the physical attributes, playing in a spread system helps because it can mask your weaknesses.  Playing in a pro-system makes you more advanced, but it also makes you have to do line reads and progressions at a much earlier age.  If the ultimate goal is to get drafted, I think a spread system really helps masks some faults.  For example, Geno has a big time issue with LBs dropping back in space.  He's not a real fit for the conventional pro system (West Coast style) because he has to read the LBs dropping back.  In a spread system, these defenders are essentially more spread out and therefore have to tip their hands earlier than needed or have more area to cover horizontally, therefore masking the issue.  I think the guys that are elite at being able to read the defense should go to a pro-system, otherwise spread is still the best option for the QB themselves.  Whole different story for the teams. 

8.  Cook dropping was very surprising, and I'm guessing he screwed up the interview process big time.  On tape, he looked very good, and I had him as a sleeper to go in the first.  My only guess is that he was just a complete moron in interviews, and people didn't want to touch him.  Cook also benefited from a very good coaching staff and always had talent around him.  I think his upside is a game manager, but those guys usually need to be pretty smart, and teams may have felt he wasn't up to the task.  His winning percentage always gets brought up, but honestly outside of Ohio State, no one matches up with Michigan State in the Big 10.  Wisconsin relies heavily on running the ball, and if that's stopped, they're dead.  Other than that, the teams were a joke in that division, especially when Michigan went in the toilet.   

[JETSfaninNE]

6 hours ago, Ben Had said:

I believe that Geno will be cut by the end of training camp. Fitz & the Jets will agree to split their differences and will sign soon. 

Its possible we could trade him if late in preseason he has looked ok and another team has an unfortunate injury.