Jets GM says he's 'excited to see' what Geno Smith can do if he's starting QB

[ylekram]

6 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Who said anything about giving him the job?????  I swear I don't know where this stuff comes from.....  

plenty of people have said that. come on. by the jets not signing a vet qb, they would be gifting geno the starting job for a 4th straight year. who would his competition be. a rookie? a 4th rounder project from last year?

[JetBlue]

21 minutes ago, Warfish said:

 

bump

[dbatesman]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

First of all, Macc is the GM

Link?

[Big Blocker]

34 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Not that it therefore makes him a good QB, because it doesn't, but this is a pretty steep glossing-over.

It suggests that an injured Decker = a healthy Decker, Marshall = not a big deal, Ferguson's further regression = no big deal, Carpenter = Winters/Aboushi, Mornhinweg = Gailey, Bowles = Ryan, 2014 Jets defense = 2015 Jets defense, and facing the 2015 Jets opponents = 2014 Jets opponents.

If one accepts every single one of those things as being true, then I guess things were almost exactly the same.

Let's focus on the CS changes here.  While medium to long term I am definitely a fan of having changed out Ryan for Bowles, let's not forget that Bowles was a rookie HC this past season, and one can hardly claim that Ryan was not supportive of Smith.  Until no one else would have been, at which point he was benched.  Similarly just because Gailey had success with Fitz, with whom he'd worked before, doesn't mean Gailey would have had an equally positive effect on Smith.  Ftr I never felt that Smith's problems had much if anything to do with Marty or with coaching in general.  He was his own worst enemy, and didn't need anyone else's help.

In short I don't see any reason to think the changes in the CS would have helped Smith to any material extent.  It's not the coaching staff that turns the ball over.

[JustInFudge]

Just now, dbatesman said:

Link?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Maccagnan

 

[drdetroit]

45 minutes ago, Warfish said:

He also went 4-12 with almost the exact same roster as Fitz did in 2015, with the exception of Marshall.

Obvious Macc effort to scare Fitz is obvious, and good on Macc for doing it.  Fitz needs to decide soon, and if he doesn't, Macc needs to do it for him.

I like Fitz, but we need to make a decision and move forward.

 

Marshall is a huge exception.  He was top 5 in both receptions and yards.  Plus we had a way easier schedule.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, jetrider said:

 

That was awful. There's every chance we'd still have lost on GB's next possession with the situation changed, and it was our team's own fault, but what a play to take away. It's not like GB knew it was a dead play and just let it go uncontested. Freaking shame. But this would be a good example of a game Fitz would get 100% absolved for, with the D giving up 28 points after we got out to a 21-3 lead. Hell, he got the blame for the Oakland game while Fitz got excused from beginning (Philadelphia) to end (Buffalo). 

None of this makes Geno an adequate QB then, nor does it mean he'd even be acceptable now. But the circumstances weren't the same. Not even close.

[ylekram]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Also on the comp pick thing, the Jets could get another one next year if one of the other 31 NFL teams had any interest in adding the 4000 yard, 31 TD superstar that is Ryan Fitzpatrick. How is it that not a single one of them sees the Fitzmagic?

its amazing that 23 teams past over aaron Rodgers. more amazing that 32 team passed over tom brady. 5 or 6 times. seriously tho. your right. fitz probably wouldn't have the same year as last year on most other teams. he is a great fit for the jets right now. and the jets are a great fit for him.competent bridge till something better comes along. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this

[Mike135]

Just now, ylekram said:

its amazing that 23 teams past over aaron Rodgers. more amazing that 32 team passed over tom brady. 5 or 6 times. seriously tho. your right. fitz probably wouldn't have the same year as last year on most other teams. he is a great fit for the jets right now. and the jets are a great fit for him.competent bridge till something better comes along. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this

Great fit to do what?  Crap his pants with the playoffs on the line during a season that was a gift schedule-wise?

What will that "great fit" get us this year?  7-9?  And still no further along in seeing what we have with our younger guys?

[Big Blocker]

8 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

Marshall is a huge exception.  He was top 5 in both receptions and yards.  Plus we had a way easier schedule.

As someone else mentioned, Marshall had a career year for himself, too.  Is that all on him?  No credit to Fitzpatrick?

[JetBlue]

19 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I don't see how any objective person who likes the Jets would want to waste a roster spot on Smith. 

First of all, Macc is the GM, and it's fair to say most GM's calculate what they say in terms of the intended effect it will have.  Here he made those comments in the middle of a negotiation with a Qb he clearly hopes to be able to play ahead of Smith, assuming the price is acceptable. 

Next, Decker played for the Jets in 14.  And in his second year he was benched twice due to poor play.

Next you have no idea whether Smith learned anything last season. 

You also ignore his off the field issues and lack of leadership. 

As for the claim he is "super motivated" now, are you suggesting he has need been impressive so far due to lack of motivation before?  That makes no sense.

Having said all that, I suppose it is possible Macc might actually be some kind of fan of Smith's.  If he is, I fear for the future of this franchise more than otherwise.

Well I guess you need to take that up with Mac.  If you really think players don't get more "motivated" when playing the last year of their contract, you are incredibly naive.

Decker played half the year with a bad hamstring and only started playing well in the second half of his first season.  Geno played considerably better after he came back from his benching. 

You are right I have no idea what he learned and neither do you; what I do KNOW he is that it was the first time he could actually sit and watch from the sidelines and learn from a true veteran quarterback.  What he learned or didn't learn or can actually apply remains to be seen.  I also do not ignore his off the field issues (what issues did he have last season after the broken jaw???)   Mac and Bowles both said they were impressed with how he handled himself last season (of course you can choose not to believe them, and that is fine,  they said it nevertheless.)  

I doubt Mac is a "fan" of Smith; what he is, is a intelligent GM who is objective about the situation, unlike most Jet fans.  He knows his quarterback of the Future is Hackenburg and he is probably not ready and will not be rushed.  If Fitz does not return, the most experienced qb on the roster is Smith. Only a complete idiot would cut him before even seeing what he could do in camp, and just keep Petty and Hackenburg.  

Let me ask you an objective question; assuming we never signed Fitz, do think Geno would have performed better with the 2015 Jets team, including the new HC and OC?  

[slats]

7 minutes ago, ylekram said:

its amazing that 23 teams past over aaron Rodgers. more amazing that 32 team passed over tom brady. 5 or 6 times. seriously tho. your right. fitz probably wouldn't have the same year as last year on most other teams. he is a great fit for the jets right now. and the jets are a great fit for him.competent bridge till something better comes along. I don't see why anyone would have a problem with this

Yeah, fair comparison. A couple draft prospects vs. an 11 year NFL veteran. Yup, I'd say teams know just about as much about how Fitzpatrick may fair as a pro as Paxton Lynch or Jeff Driskel. 

[JetBlue]

3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

As someone else mentioned, Marshall had a career year for himself, too.  Is that all on him?  No credit to Fitzpatrick?

Look at Marshalls career; he had a season very similar to last year just two years ago. His career year is just an uptick on what was the norm for him for many years. 

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, bitonti said:

if the Jets start Geno Smith this season is over before it starts. 

And to add, if the Jets are handing this yokel a starting NFL gig for the fourth year in a row, that's pretty much the surest sign yet that we're screwed.

[ylekram]

4 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Great fit to do what?  Crap his pants with the playoffs on the line during a season that was a gift schedule-wise?

What will that "great fit" get us this year?  7-9?  And still no further along in seeing what we have with our younger guys?

I know you are scared to death over this supposed big bad schedule. I am not. schedules never seem to be what they are thought to be. year in year out. so the 1st part of the schedule is a little tough, big deal. you are already predicting the future because of the schedule. how about this. how about fitz and company build on what they had last year? is that possible?

you don't want to see what we have with the younger guys.lol. you want to gift geno year 4 is all. you have said it all along. you see what you have in younger guys when they earn it and are ready

the entire team(sans marshal) "crapped their pants" with the playoffs on the line. all I hear from you is fitzpatricks fault

[Sperm Edwards]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Let's focus on the CS changes here.  While medium to long term I am definitely a fan of having changed out Ryan for Bowles, let's not forget that Bowles was a rookie HC this past season, and one can hardly claim that Ryan was not supportive of Smith.  Until no one else would have been, at which point he was benched.  Similarly just because Gailey had success with Fitz, with whom he'd worked before, doesn't mean Gailey would have had an equally positive effect on Smith.  Ftr I never felt that Smith's problems had much if anything to do with Marty or with coaching in general.  He was his own worst enemy, and didn't need anyone else's help.

In short I don't see any reason to think the changes in the CS would have helped Smith to any material extent.  It's not the coaching staff that turns the ball over.

What happened to firing Ryan was addition by subtraction? And I can definitely claim Ryan didn't want Smith in the first place, and resented him being there over Sanchez. Right to the point where he committed one of the more spiteful acts we've witnessed in recent coaching in the first Miami game, where he made the game a joke out of running on every play until our last drive.

The introduction of Gailey as OC had an instant, positive impact on every single QB he's ever worked with, without one exception, going back 20 years.

This alternate idea - solely being thrown out there now for this one argument - is that after the 2014 season ended, the Jets didn't need to make any coaching changes, didn't need to bring in a different/better offensive in general, and didn't need to bring in any borderline HOF free agent WRs. All that was needed was journeyman Ryan Fitzpatrick, who was benched halfway through the prior season.

[ylekram]

10 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Well I guess you need to take that up with Mac.  If you really think players don't get more "motivated" when playing the last year of their contract, you are incredibly naive.

Decker played half the year with a bad hamstring and only started playing well in the second half of his first season.  Geno played considerably better after he came back from his benching. 

You are right I have no idea what he learned and neither do you; what I do KNOW he is that it was the first time he could actually sit and watch from the sidelines and learn from a true veteran quarterback.  What he learned or didn't learn or can actually apply remains to be seen.  I also do not ignore his off the field issues (what issues did he have last season after the broken jaw???)   Mac and Bowles both said they were impressed with how he handled himself last season (of course you can choose not to believe them, and that is fine,  they said it nevertheless.)  

I doubt Mac is a "fan" of Smith; what he is, is a intelligent GM who is objective about the situation, unlike most Jet fans.  He knows his quarterback of the Future is Hackenburg and he is probably not ready and will not be rushed.  If Fitz does not return, the most experienced qb on the roster is Smith. Only a complete idiot would cut him before even seeing what he could do in camp, and just keep Petty and Hackenburg.  

Let me ask you an objective question; assuming we never signed Fitz, do think Geno would have performed better with the 2015 Jets team, including the new HC and OC?  

sounds like a long list of "what ifs". if he is more motivated, as you say, let him earn what he gets

[JetBlue]

22 minutes ago, Augustiniak said:

i wrote in a fair competition.  as it stands, even if hack looks better in TC he would likely not be ahead of geno to start the season, to protect him.

Fair enough but unless he totally blows away Geno and Petty, I would still not have him start the season.  It would be extremely encouraging if he regains his form and gives Geno a run for his money.  That way if Geno does play the way many expect, at some point during the season, we can feel comfortable starting Hackenburg era. 

[ylekram]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

Yeah, fair comparison. A couple draft prospects vs. an 11 year NFL veteran. Yup, I'd say teams know just about as much about how Fitzpatrick may fair as a pro as Paxton Lynch or Jeff Driskel. 

it wasn't meant as a fair comparison. it was meant as a joke. here you go. happy now?

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, ylekram said:

I know you are scared to death over this supposed big bad schedule. I am not. schedules never seem to be what they are thought to be. year in year out. so the 1st part of the schedule is a little tough, big deal. you are already predicting the future because of the schedule. how about this. how about fitz and company build on what they had last year? is that possible?

you don't want to see what we have with the younger guys.lol. you want to gift geno year 4 is all. you have said it all along. you see what you have in younger guys when they earn it and are ready

the entire team(sans marshal) "crapped their pants" with the playoffs on the line. all I hear from you is fitzpatricks fault

Not Fitz's fault.  Bolwles'.  Can't blame Fitz for playing his bearded little heart out (which he did).  He's just a very limited QB.  Not because I say so.  Because his history does.

Bowles created this monster wanting 15+mil by deciding to stay with the safe option.  Instead at this point we could know for sure whether or not Geno has any future, and in-turn, know if we should bring Fitz back.

Instead we find ourselves in this cluster-fu@k of a QB situation.  Spending big (aka 7+mil) on Fitz now only makes it worse.

[jetrider]

22 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

That was awful. There's every chance we'd still have lost on GB's next possession with the situation changed, and it was our team's own fault, but what a play to take away. It's not like GB knew it was a dead play and just let it go uncontested. Freaking shame. But this would be a good example of a game Fitz would get 100% absolved for, with the D giving up 28 points after we got out to a 21-3 lead. Hell, he got the blame for the Oakland game while Fitz got excused from beginning (Philadelphia) to end (Buffalo). 

None of this makes Geno an adequate QB then, nor does it mean he'd even be acceptable now. But the circumstances weren't the same. Not even close.

The point I keep trying to make is Moronweg is the only OC Geno had to develop him. Fitz would've sucked with MM too. 

[JetBlue]

24 minutes ago, ylekram said:

plenty of people have said that. come on. by the jets not signing a vet qb, they would be gifting geno the starting job for a 4th straight year. who would his competition be. a rookie? a 4th rounder project from last year?

I don't think anyone expects him to just be given the job. I think you are misunderstanding what people are saying.  Any vet qb they sign not named Fitz would probably not beat out Smith anyway as he has been in the system for two years now.  

[Sperm Edwards]

1 minute ago, JetBlue said:

Fair enough but unless he totally blows away Geno and Petty, I would still not have him start the season.  It would be extremely encouraging if he regains his form and gives Geno a run for his money.  That way if Geno does play the way many expect, at some point during the season, we can feel comfortable starting Hackenburg era. 

Geno's problems are in live games not in training camp. So if Hackenberg totally blows away Geno (and Petty) in the one area Geno can look really good, and they bench Hackenberg anyway, then Bowles should be fired. Of all things Hackenberg brings, it's the ability to run a complex offense, which we don't even run.

I think if anything they want a reason to put Hackenberg out there, not a reason to justify sitting him. He's not Paxton Lynch, which I'd think was the whole point in passing on Lynch in the first place. 

[cant wait]

3 minutes ago, ylekram said:

I know you are scared to death over this supposed big bad schedule. I am not. schedules never seem to be what they are thought to be. year in year out. so the 1st part of the schedule is a little tough, big deal. you are already predicting the future because of the schedule. how about this. how about fitz and company build on what they had last year? is that possible?

you don't want to see what we have with the younger guys.lol. you want to gift geno year 4 is all. you have said it all along. you see what you have in younger guys when they earn it and are ready

the entire team(sans marshal) "crapped their pants" with the playoffs on the line. all I hear from you is fitzpatricks fault

Fitzpatrick's shown he can succeed against the weakest teams in the league. Fool's gold

[RutgersJetFan]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Geno's problems are in live games not in training camp.

He got knocked the **** out by a teammate in training camp.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, cant wait said:

Fitzpatrick's shown he can succeed against the weakest teams in the league. Fool's gold

This is the truest statement on Ryan Fitzpatrick. 

[bostonmajet]

LOL - what else is he going to say; Crap I have 2 developmental QBs and a dumba.. who got his a.. kicked in by another player in the locker room. I sure hope Fitz signs soon or I am screwed; In fact, I have to sign him, even if I have to break the bank?

Not sure what Macc thinks of Geno, but let's be honest this is just GM speak for 'we are in good shape, nothing to see here'

[JetBlue]

4 minutes ago, ylekram said:

sounds like a long list of "what ifs". if he is more motivated, as you say, let him earn what he gets

Dude again you with the let him earn it comments?  OF COURSE HE HAS TO EARN OKAY??  I really have no idea why you keep thinking the job will be handed to him....  He will compete in camp with Hack, Petty and Fitz, assuming he comes back.  As it stands now, with no Fitz, he is probably the odds on favorite to win the job by virtue of his experience.  He still has to go out and perform.  If Fitz is resigned than HE IS THE ODDS ON FAVORITE by virtue of his performance last season but guess what?  HE STILL HAS TO GO OUT AND PERFORM TOO.  Can we now move on from this whole earning the job thing? 

[j4jets]

1 hour ago, ylekram said:

and this is coming from a guy(you) who was at the mini camp and training camp everyday? that would be literally speaking. or was it a few reports, from some beat writers that said geno won the competition today? ya, I read the tweets. you make it sound like geno destroyed fitz everyday. well even if you listen to the beat writers, that's not what they said. same beat writers who stated that geno looked good the year before, too lights out? lol. and no. fitz wasn't "full go" 100% healthy when camp started. he stated as much. you roll with geno "needs 4 gifted years" smith. I will roll with fitz till something better comes along

Fitz was 100% in mini camp in 5 on 7s n Geno pretty much owned him everyday. The one day Geno didn't own him, he literally got sucker punched. And that was just a few days before the first pre season game. N I don't need to be at the camps to know all this. There were dozens of reports everyday suggesting the way Geno loses his job would be a 5 pick practice (or a sucker punch), cuz Fitz isn't taking anyone's starting role with his arm or legs (which are as dumb as Geno's but most people around here call it bravado for some reason). 

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, bostonmajet said:

LOL - what else is he going to say; Crap I have 2 developmental QBs and a dumba.. who got his a.. kicked in by another player in the locker room. I sure hope Fitz signs soon or I am screwed; In fact, I have to sign him, even if I have to break the bank?

Not sure what Macc thinks of Geno, but let's be honest this is just GM speak for 'we are in good shape, nothing to see here'

Or what I think he actually sees...

"$hit, if Bowles just played Geno last year, we'd know whether or not to drop him.  And the good veteran backup we have could be re-signed for 4 or 5 mil if Geno did suck.  Instead Bowles kinda fu@ked me here."

[Big Blocker]

9 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Well I guess you need to take that up with Mac.  If you really think players don't get more "motivated" when playing the last year of their contract, you are incredibly naive.

Decker played half the year with a bad hamstring and only started playing will in the second half.  Geno played considerably better after he came back from his benching. 

 

I want to focus on your first two points since the rest involve speculation, but for the last point no I do not think Smith would have done near as well as Fitzpatrick last season, but as I say an opinion.

The problem with your first point is it implies Smith's problems to date have been due to an insufficient level of motivation.  Being in a contract year is no doubt an added motivation.  But it is not the difference between having motivation and having none.  Should it not have been enough that Smith was given the chance to start two seasons on a row?  Was a vet presence in the locker room last camp?  In short I don't think lack of motivation has been high on the list of Smith's problems, but if it has been that says nothing good about Smith.

Second I disagree that Smith played considerably better in the second half of 14's season.  He first of all was on the bench the first 10 quarters.  You are not playing better when you are on the bench, and he was there for an excellent reason.  In the 11th game of the season he came into the Buffalo game and played against a prevent defense with Buff ahead and led the team to zero points scored.  Zero.

Next week he led the team to a loss against Miami, with a 35.7 rating, one td against two ints. 

So it was not the second half of the season you are talking about, but the fourth quarter, the last four games, and yes his stats improved.  Still the Jets lost two of those four games, and Smith's one great game was the last one against a Miami team in total disarray chomping at the bit to get to their golf games.

So he played well in four games half of which the Jets lost and either didn't play for good reason or sucked before that.  in the third quarter of the season.  I don't cal that playing well in the second half.

You can say he played better down the stretch.  Yeah, that was his thing, after the Jets are already out of the playoffs due to his inept previous play.  No thanks.

[Sperm Edwards]

2 minutes ago, jetrider said:

The point I keep trying to make is Moronweg is the only OC Geno had to develop him. Fitz would've sucked with MM too. 

I don't think it was necessarily just Mornhinweg. It would be dishonest to say no one did well while he was the QBC or OC. On the other hand it did typically take veteran pro bowl QBs to do so (Favre, Young, McNabb), not a kid from a gimmick college offense who wasn't exactly the Andrew Luck of QB prospects in the first place. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, j4jets said:

Fitz was 100% in mini camp in 5 on 7s n Geno pretty much owned him everyday. The one day Geno didn't own him, he literally got sucker punched. And that was just a few days before the first pre season game. N I don't need to be at the camps to know all this. There were dozens of reports everyday suggesting the way Geno loses his job would be a 5 pick practice (or a sucker punch), cuz Fitz isn't taking anyone's starting role with his arm or legs (which are as dumb as Geno's but most people around here call it bravado for some reason). 

No Fitz supporter will touch this fact. 

[JetBlue]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Geno's problems are in live games not in training camp. So if Hackenberg totally blows away Geno (and Petty) in the one area Geno can look really good, and they bench Hackenberg anyway, then Bowles should be fired. Of all things Hackenberg brings, it's the ability to run a complex offense, which we don't even run.

I think if anything they want a reason to put Hackenberg out there, not a reason to justify sitting him. He's not Paxton Lynch, which I'd think was the whole point in passing on Lynch in the first place. 

If they are equal in camp I would still consider starting Geno. Training camp is not the real thing and I want this kid to play for the next 15 years for us and I don't feel the need to rush him.  We are not winning a superbowl next year so yes, I can start Geno for the first few games and f he has problems I can then go to Hack, cut Geno and sign a vet QB off the street to back up along with Petty.   I don't see it as an issue at all. 

[bostonmajet]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Or what I think he actually sees...

"$hit, if Bowles just played Geno last year, we'd know whether or not to drop him.  And the good veteran backup we have could be re-signed for 4 or 5 mil if Geno did suck.  Instead Bowles kinda fu@ked me here."

yeah, could be... that's my point, I have no idea what he really thinks of Geno...