..did the jets " REACH " in the 1st round of this draft ? ? ?

[section314]

4 minutes ago, SayNoToDMC said:

This. I didn't love the pass coverage grade and I know they watch a lot more tape then I can, but they told me Kyle Wilson was the sh*t

They were right. Wilson is sh*t.

[BroadwayRay]

I take what PFF has to say about college players with a grain of salt. Their analysis is simply a snapshot of how they're performing now, in the infancy of their careers, with a secret-sauce scoring system to boot. They provide no insight whatsoever into a player's growth potential and raw talent -- the things scouts and GMs look for.

[Matt39]

4 hours ago, House Jet said:

Dude I was screaming for treadwell. I feel you on that one. I like Lee though. I think he fits what we were looking for. He's fast, athletic and just looks like a football player. I know he doesn't have much experience as a LB but its not a gholston situation where he started football late. I think he'll turn out to be a pretty good pick.

Tie goes to the defense in Jetland.

[JetBlue]

5 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Tie goes to the defense in Jetland.

When the picks are of relative equal value, you go for the greatest need. That is what the Jets did.

[Rangers9]

This guy was not a reach. As a matter of fact he was on many polls expected to go higher. A lot of them said to Atlanta at #17. It was a good pick esp because the team took one of the best available players still on the board plus it met a big need, speed in the linebacking corps. This guy does not look like a potential bust even thougb probably the biggest high draft pick in Jets history who was a bust was drafted only eight years ago and was a D player from that school. 

[Mainejet]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 1:56 PM, kelly said:

JETS REACHED IN FIRST-ROUND

Pro Football Focus likes Darron Lee as a player but thought he should not have been taken in the first round. Lee's a good athlete, but that doesn't always translate to coverage ability. Potential busts (Insider)

> http://espn.go.com/nfl/team/_/name/nyj/new-york-jets

 

~ ~ Picking the 2016 draft picks most likely to be busts

• 
  Steve PalazzoloSpecial to ESPN.com

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Though the label of "bust" gets attached to players, it's often the team that should get the blame for drafting the wrong prospect in the wrong spot.

With a high draft position comes high expectations, and unfairly or not, players will be judged against their peers. In some cases, Pro Football Focus may like the player, but not on the team that picked him and not at the spot where he was picked. In other cases, players simply shouldn't be taken in the first or second rounds.

Here's a look at 10 players most likely to not live up to their draft spot, using PFF data to back up our assertions.

Darron Lee, LB, New York Jets

First round, No. 20 overall

PFF likes Lee as a player, but we didn't think he should have been taken in the first round. The skills for which he was drafted have not been up to par the last two years. His coverage grade ranked 73rd among linebackers in 2015, and he posted a negative grade in 2014. The expectation is that Lee will become a three-down linebacker with coverage versatility, but he wasn't effective in that role at Ohio State. Lee's a good athlete, however, and it shows up in the run game and as a pass-rusher, where his +8.2 rush grade was among the nation's best in 2015. But athleticism should not be synonymous with coverage ability, and Lee has a ways to go as a coverage player before warranting that first-round selection.

>     http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft2016/insider/story/_/id/15459868/2016-nfl-draft-most-likely-draft-busts-2016-class-darron-lee-new-york-jets

I think he's been miscast in this defense. I swear Ma and Bowles never read their Jets history books? Or maybe it's extreme arrogance? Either way, I do not see a prototypical 4-3 linebacker working out in a 3-4. I think the pick is a dud and there's no doubt that, even if Lee becomes a starter, that Mac blew this draft. He did NOTHING to improve the offense. NOTHING. When you're looking at the big picture, the offense was old to begin with and now it just got a year older with absolutely no youth infusion. This season has crash and burn written all over it.

[Gas2No99]

1 hour ago, Mainejet said:

I think he's been miscast in this defense. I swear Ma and Bowles never read their Jets history books? Or maybe it's extreme arrogance? Either way, I do not see a prototypical 4-3 linebacker working out in a 3-4. I think the pick is a dud and there's no doubt that, even if Lee becomes a starter, that Mac blew this draft. He did NOTHING to improve the offense. NOTHING. When you're looking at the big picture, the offense was old to begin with and now it just got a year older with absolutely no youth infusion. This season has crash and burn written all over it.

To say the Jets "did nothing" to improve the offense is an overstatement on your part - and rather idiotic to a degree.

1) We drafted a "Potential" Franchise QB who is only 21 and doesn't have as steep of a learning curve of the Pro Game. That is a SIGNIFICANT pick that sets the tone for what the offense can be for the next 6-10 years if he hits. Also addressed our MOST IMMEDIATE NEED: FUTURE QB.

2) We THEN traded BACK into the 5th round to select a prototypical run-game RT or G prospect to FURTHER ensure young OLine depth. 24 years old.

3) OH WAIT WHY DID WE TRADE BACK INTO The 5th? because our original 5th rounder landed us a former STUD LT in Ryan Clady at a DISCOUNT. (same as last year 's 5th rounder netted us Marshall, but I'm sure that doesn't factor into your "draft haul"). 29 years old, Brick is 32. 

4) a Potential STEAL in the 7th with a 23y.o.  6'2" WR to add further depth to an already solid WR corp. that already invested a high pick LAST year in Smith.

So he added players at KEY positions to an offense that ranked 11th in offense for 2015. 

Oh WAIT !!!

WE lost 2-3 games DUE to our STs and slow LBs that couldn't tackle a RB out of the backfield or properly cover the middle of the field.

THEN he added AT LEAST 3 potential ROOKIE starters in ILB Lee, OLB Jones, & either P Hackett/Lachlan to a defense 9th ranked defense that was SOLELY exposed due to an inability to cover players out of the backfield and poor field position due to Quigley's pooches. 

Also Add a 6' CB who may see time at nickel if Skrine moves to the outside to further ensure a SOLID secondary and add MORE PUNCH to our ST Coverage units. 

"In the big picture . . . . he did NOTHING . . . NOTHING!"

That's just a NAIVE and dumb statement. Oh yeah, and DEAD WRONG.

 

[The Troll]

I saw him go as high as 10 in some mocks. Reach? No. Questionable fit? Yes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JetBlue]

3 minutes ago, The Troll said:

I saw him go as high as 10 in some mocks. Reach? No. Questionable fit? Yes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't even see it as a questionable pick. He was the best all around lb in the draft not named Jack or Smith, both of whom were either injured or coming off injuries.  He was excellent value at a position of real need.  He is a perfect fit for Bowles defense. 

[Powpow]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 2:42 PM, SenorGato said:

I'd lean more towards him being one of the safest 10 picks in the first round than one of the 10 most likely to bust. What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher, but beyond that it's as good as they could have done.

'Safe' sucks.   Safe is like being a 'nice guy'.  Nice guys finish last.   What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher. Well the QB WAS THERE to be taken in Lynch. QB is the most important position and we needed the best QB still on the board not a ILB that isn't an edge rusher which we desperately needed.  Would have rather 'risked' 1st round pick on Lynch and taken Whitehair in round 2 to fortify an aging OL. If you don't go One Step Beyond, you'll always end up in the same place.     

 

[Powpow]

On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 3:51 PM, JiF said:

I think he's a reach based on the positoin he plays, his size and what he brings to the table is only really valuable on 1 or 2 downs.  That skill, can be found in any round of the draft.  There were at least 5 guys with the exact same skill set just not the measurable athlete of Lee that were taken in rounds 2-4.  

The biggest thing that worries me, is he's never seen a blocker in his entire life.  He just roamed free his entire college career.  It will be interesting to see how he transitions.   Most of his sacks came on blitzes where he went untouched to the QB.  In the NFL, the ball comes out a lot quicker and QB's know how to roll protection.  

Only a 2 year player, minimal production.  Of his 11 sacks, 9 of them came vs. the likes of Kent St., Rutgers, Penn St., Hawaii, and Va Tech. 

There is no doubt what he's expected to bring to the table is a valuable commodity.  Is it a 1st round level of value?  Hell no. The best guys in the NFL that do what he does were 2nd day+ picks. 

All good though.  Hopefully he's a stud and can develop into a 3 down player.  

 

One of the best posts you've ever dissected. Bravo!

[afosomf]

7 hours ago, JetBlue said:

I don't even see it as a questionable pick. He was the best all around lb in the draft not named Jack or Smith, both of whom were either injured or coming off injuries.  He was excellent value at a position of real need.  He is a perfect fit for Bowles defense. 

Ummm check out 15.23  here is your best LB outside of jack and smith

 

[JetBlue]

41 minutes ago, afosomf said:

Ummm check out 15.23  here is your best LB outside of jack and smith

 

Umm, stop cherry picking video. He is Jet now, get over it and  root for the guy to succeed instead hoping he fails.

[Bruce Harper]

On 5/4/2016 at 3:04 PM, Villain The Foe said:

Maybe PFF should have mentioned that Lee was covering alot in the slot because of injuries more than he ever did in 2014. However, his role on this team will not be to cover slot receivers but to seek runners from the backside (Weak Inside Linebacker),  travel sideline to sideline, A-Gap Blitz as well as cover tight ends.  

The fact that PFF even started out talking about possibly drafting wrong players in the wrong slot shows that they dont go by their own words. Bowles has no reason to put Lee in the slot for the majority of the season, it defeats the purpose of having all of these CB's. However, having him blitz or covering the TE on the seam is a different story....something that they should have mentioned. Crappy ass article. 

 

I will say this though, im really not impressed with Lee's tape so far when thinking about who we left on the board (Myles Jack). He has "hesity feet" around the action and is somewhat similar to Vernon Gholston. Lee alot of times is around the action but not really part of the action. What I will say is that he's a really solid blitzer. I dont know what Myles Jack speed is (no combine/pro day results) but when watching him play his instincts are elite. 

 

I believe Bowles has a plan specifically for Lee's attributes, which in that respect makes the pick relevant. 

 

Don't see the Gholston comparison at all.  Gholston was a defensive end in college and was bigger and his best move was a bull rush (although it literally never worked in the pros).  Lee is smaller, quicker and isn't going through anybody.  Unless you are talking about the fact that he came from the same school and was given the same number they are not much alike.

[Bruce Harper]

On 5/4/2016 at 3:33 PM, BroadwayJoe12 said:

Agreed. Lee's athleticism is unquestionable, but what gets me excited is that he's still just 21 and relatively new playing his position.  Between him and Jenkins, we drafted two of the most athletic LBs in the entire draft. Their SPARQ scores were impressive and yea, I would have liked to have seen more production like we did with Shazier, but I think their talent isn't in question, just a matter of using them properly. 

Dumb question of the day:  What's a SPARQ score?

[Irish Jet]

On 4 May 2016 at 8:20 PM, PCP63 said:

PFF it's just a bunch of stat nerds that have never kissed a girl or played a down of football past high school.

 

I appreciate in depth stats, but sometimes numbers don't tell the whole story.

They didn't go to high school because a lot of them aren't even American.

I doubt most of them have ever played American Football.

[Bruce Harper]

Quote

I think he's been miscast in this defense. I swear Ma and Bowles never read their Jets history books? Or maybe it's extreme arrogance? Either way, I do not see a prototypical 4-3 linebacker working out in a 3-4. I think the pick is a dud and there's no doubt that, even if Lee becomes a starter, that Mac blew this draft. He did NOTHING to improve the offense. NOTHING. When you're looking at the big picture, the offense was old to begin with and now it just got a year older with absolutely no youth infusion. This season has crash and burn written all over it.

Could you at least let them put their uniforms on before you start with the doom and gloom forecasts?

[Villain The Foe]

13 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

Don't see the Gholston comparison at all.  Gholston was a defensive end in college and was bigger and his best move was a bull rush (although it literally never worked in the pros).  Lee is smaller, quicker and isn't going through anybody.  Unless you are talking about the fact that he came from the same school and was given the same number they are not much alike.

Because I wasnt comparing Lee the football player to Gholston the football player, I was comparing the "hesity feet" of Lee to the "hesity feet" of Gholston. In otherwords, you can tell that Lee is thinking on the field and not reacting by his feet. 

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, afosomf said:

Ummm check out 15.23  here is your best LB outside of jack and smith

 

Fun to watch.  I don't watch much college football so it is fun to see so many pros and high picks in the same game.

Lee made three strong plays by my count, not a big presence otherwise.  But not bad.

I can sorta see why Elliott went so high.  Very tough when short yardage needed (they always gave it to him when they were inside their own five and he'd inevitably give them some room to work with) but also breakaway speed.

The UDFA WR that we drafted looked pretty good too.  Two great long catches by Smith as well as a great special teams play.  These two teams were incredibly deep.

[Bruce Harper]

38 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Because I wasnt comparing Lee the football player to Gholston the football player, I was comparing the "hesity feet" of Lee to the "hesity feet" of Gholston. In otherwords, you can tell that Lee is thinking on the field and not reacting by his feet. 

I could see that.  They may share that in common but it is a bit of a "hot button" comparison because Gholston may be our ultimate failure draft pick and is fresh in our minds.  And in the limited tape that I have seen Lee does seem to mix in a few instinctual plays. 

[PepPep]

I think Lee has great instincts as a LB, which was in part, why it was a pretty 'safe' pick in the 1st round. He's not just a fantastic athlete that has the potential to be a versatile 3 down LB in the NFL. His instincts on the field tell me that he can go out there and make plays/contribute right away. Bowles will start him off on 3rd downs in blitz packages, either dropping into coverage or putting pressure on the QB.

He will fit in just fine. People forget that the Jets run a hybrid 3-4 and a lot of times a 3-4 defense ends up being a 4-3 formation, if that makes sense- there's still 4 defenders at the line with 3 LBs behind them, one of them just happens to be a LB rather than DE. A lot of times its offset, with the 'edge setter' OLB having his hand in the dirt on the weak side (Jenkins?) and the strong side OLB set to blitz (Mauldin?) while Harris and Lee play inside. In this case, I would imagine Lee is the 'Will', Harris is the 'Mike', Jenkins is the 'Jack' and Mauldin is the 'Sam'. All of these LBs fit very nicely into their designated roles- assuming Harris is the best run stuffer, Lee is the versatile cover/sideline to sideline LB, Jenkins is the best edge setter and Mauldin is the best pass rusher of the bunch. If these 4 LBs can excel in these roles, they will be the perfect set of 3-4 LBs. And 3 of the 4 are very young. Ragland would have been a perfect 'Mike' backer. But the need was for a 'Will' since we still have Harris and its much easier to find an effective 'Mike' than it is to find a versatile 'Will' who can cover, blitz and go sideline to sideline.         

Good pick by Mac and Bowles probably had a lot of input on this selection. You CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT find a guy like Lee in the mid to late rounds. J.Smith and M.Jack are exceptions b/c of their injuries. You are much more likely to find an effective 'Mike' backer like Ragland somewhere in the 3rd-4th round. Not to say that he will be as good as Ragland- but certainly effective enough to play the 'Mike'.    

[faba]

Geez give the guy a chance before we send the wolves after him

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Irish Jet said:

They didn't go to high school because a lot of them aren't even American.

I doubt most of them have ever played American Football.

[Irish Jet]

18 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm just explaining why they're superior beings.

[afosomf]

1 hour ago, Bruce Harper said:

Fun to watch.  I don't watch much college football so it is fun to see so many pros and high picks in the same game.

Lee made three strong plays by my count, not a big presence otherwise.  But not bad.

I can sorta see why Elliott went so high.  Very tough when short yardage needed (they always gave it to him when they were inside their own five and he'd inevitably give them some room to work with) but also breakaway speed.

The UDFA WR that we drafted looked pretty good too.  Two great long catches by Smith as well as a great special teams play.  These two teams were incredibly deep.

Elliot had 2 awesome runs, 1 in the 1Q and the last TD run, ragland was out of the game in 4Q and his replacement made an awful attack at LOS. Zeke is a good one, the 1st rd was outstanding

[Sperm Edwards]

38 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

I'm just explaining why they're superior beings.

lol well played

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Dumb question of the day:  What's a SPARQ score?

It's a composite metric of combine numbers that gives you an estimate of how players compare athletically. Drills are weighted differently for the various positions and the model outputs an overall score for comparison across positions and a percentile ranking as compared to other players at a given position currently in the NFL. Ramsey, Hargreaves, Coleman, Lee, and Doctson had the best scores among high picks this year.

3sigmaathlete.com

[SenorGato]

11 hours ago, Powpow said:

'Safe' sucks.   Safe is like being a 'nice guy'.  Nice guys finish last.   What this pick can be knocked for is not being a QB or edge rusher. Well the QB WAS THERE to be taken in Lynch. QB is the most important position and we needed the best QB still on the board not a ILB that isn't an edge rusher which we desperately needed.  Would have rather 'risked' 1st round pick on Lynch and taken Whitehair in round 2 to fortify an aging OL. If you don't go One Step Beyond, you'll always end up in the same place.     

Paxton Lynch would have been a horrible use of a first.

@JiF - Lee will be playing behind an average of like 950 pounds on the DL...The knock on him not being blocked will probably get to live on.