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Hackenberg pick means nothing


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Ever since we drafted Hackenberg, talking heads are telling us it means Petty isn't ready, Geno isn't maturing, Fitz is not coming back. Here's what I think it means, it means Macc is going to do what we've been asking for since Sanchez failed...pick a QB at some point in the draft until we find one. 

This was a topic discussed numerous times before the previous drafts. In fact, myself & others were proponents of drafting Teddy Bridgewater. While Tom Brady ages & Rex continues to coach the Bills (clock is ticking), and Tannenbaum ruins the Fins salary cap, the Jets have got to find their future QB & you do that by having young QBs compete against & push each other. 

Macc & the Jets are focused on the one thing that will change our fortunes, finding our future QB. It's just too difficult with a salary cap when you don't have a QB to be a consistent winner. Sure, you can have a good season, but success is short. It's pretty simple, you go forward with 3 young guys to see which one wants it the most. Or you can resign Fitz at a number that is uncomfortable, or might effect your 2017 cap with a 34 year old stop gap QB with a history of turnovers at the worst time. The Buffalo game was it for me. The 2 turnovers in the 4th quarter, the wobbly passes, the near miss 3/4 other passes that could have been picked were all I needed to see. 

The idea that you can compete, and tread water in the NFL is a fallacy. There really is absolutely no reason to go forward with Ryan Fitzpatrick as our starting QB. We all know we are not winning a Super Bowl with this guy, so what's the point? I'm 100% positive that even if Fitz was our QB this year he WILL NOT be our starter in 2017. Bill Obrien picked Hoyer over Fitz. 2016 was an anomaly regarding Ryan Fitzpatrick, lighting will not strike twice.

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I think it seems like an indictment of Petty, because of the perceived reach for Hack in the 2nd.  If they selected Lynch at 20 the story would have been different (seen as more of an opportunity) and I agree Bridgewater vs Geno in camp would have been fun...  

It has been reported that Hack was the BPA on the Jets board so you may have a interesting point, should be a good discussion anyway... 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Ever since we drafted Hackenberg, talking heads are telling us it means Petty isn't ready, Geno isn't maturing, Fitz is not coming back. Here's what I think it means, it means Macc is going to do what we've been asking for since Sanchez failed...pick a QB at some point in the draft until we find one. 

This was a topic discussed numerous times before the previous drafts. In fact, myself & others were proponents of drafting Teddy Bridgewater. While Tom Brady ages & Rex continues to coach the Bills (clock is ticking), and Tannenbaum ruins the Fins salary cap, the Jets have got to find their future QB & you do that by having young QBs compete against & push each other. 

Macc & the Jets are focused on the one thing that will change our fortunes, finding our future QB. It's just too difficult with a salary cap when you don't have a QB to be a consistent winner. Sure, you can have a good season, but success is short. It's pretty simple, you go forward with 3 young guys to see which one wants it the most. Or you can resign Fitz at a number that is uncomfortable, or might effect your 2017 cap with a 34 year old stop gap QB with a history of turnovers at the worst time. The Buffalo game was it for me. The 2 turnovers in the 4th quarter, the wobbly passes, the near miss 3/4 other passes that could have been picked were all I needed to see. 

The idea that you can compete, and tread water in the NFL is a fallacy. There really is absolutely no reason to go forward with Ryan Fitzpatrick as our starting QB. We all know we are not winning a Super Bowl with this guy, so what's the point? I'm 100% positive that even if Fitz was our QB this year he WILL NOT be our starter in 2017. Bill Obrien picked Hoyer over Fitz. 2016 was an anomaly regarding Ryan Fitzpatrick, lighting will not strike twice.

How come I haven't heard this anywhere?  Other than we've heard Petty needs a few years to grow, but acts nothing new brought on by Hackenberg.  

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53 minutes ago, Jetster said:

Ever since we drafted Hackenberg, talking heads are telling us it means Petty isn't ready, Geno isn't maturing, Fitz is not coming back. Here's what I think it means, it means Macc is going to do what we've been asking for since Sanchez failed...pick a QB at some point in the draft until we find one. 

This was a topic discussed numerous times before the previous drafts. In fact, myself & others were proponents of drafting Teddy Bridgewater. While Tom Brady ages & Rex continues to coach the Bills (clock is ticking), and Tannenbaum ruins the Fins salary cap, the Jets have got to find their future QB & you do that by having young QBs compete against & push each other. 

Macc & the Jets are focused on the one thing that will change our fortunes, finding our future QB. It's just too difficult with a salary cap when you don't have a QB to be a consistent winner. Sure, you can have a good season, but success is short. It's pretty simple, you go forward with 3 young guys to see which one wants it the most. Or you can resign Fitz at a number that is uncomfortable, or might effect your 2017 cap with a 34 year old stop gap QB with a history of turnovers at the worst time. The Buffalo game was it for me. The 2 turnovers in the 4th quarter, the wobbly passes, the near miss 3/4 other passes that could have been picked were all I needed to see. 

The idea that you can compete, and tread water in the NFL is a fallacy. There really is absolutely no reason to go forward with Ryan Fitzpatrick as our starting QB. We all know we are not winning a Super Bowl with this guy, so what's the point? I'm 100% positive that even if Fitz was our QB this year he WILL NOT be our starter in 2017. Bill Obrien picked Hoyer over Fitz. 2016 was an anomaly regarding Ryan Fitzpatrick, lighting will not strike twice.

Yup, I completely agree. This is why the notion of Macs fate being tied to Hackenberg is silly, if Hackenberg sucks, but he finds a real QB, he will be fine. To me, Mac has shown that he gets it. Whether or not he can actually scout remains to be seen, and those who believe in twitch measurements and fake math think he cannot scout.

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Yup.  Nothing wrong with continuing to select young QBs until one hits.  Don't really think it's a knock on any individual QB.  Heck supposedly we were trying to trade our 2nd pick away to move up in the 1st round for Tunsil,  Couldn't have been too concerned about getting a QB early if we were willing to trade the pick away.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Ever since we drafted Hackenberg, talking heads are telling us it means Petty isn't ready, Geno isn't maturing, Fitz is not coming back. Here's what I think it means, it means Macc is going to do what we've been asking for since Sanchez failed...pick a QB at some point in the draft until we find one. 

This was a topic discussed numerous times before the previous drafts. In fact, myself & others were proponents of drafting Teddy Bridgewater. While Tom Brady ages & Rex continues to coach the Bills (clock is ticking), and Tannenbaum ruins the Fins salary cap, the Jets have got to find their future QB & you do that by having young QBs compete against & push each other. 

Macc & the Jets are focused on the one thing that will change our fortunes, finding our future QB. It's just too difficult with a salary cap when you don't have a QB to be a consistent winner. Sure, you can have a good season, but success is short. It's pretty simple, you go forward with 3 young guys to see which one wants it the most. Or you can resign Fitz at a number that is uncomfortable, or might effect your 2017 cap with a 34 year old stop gap QB with a history of turnovers at the worst time. The Buffalo game was it for me. The 2 turnovers in the 4th quarter, the wobbly passes, the near miss 3/4 other passes that could have been picked were all I needed to see. 

The idea that you can compete, and tread water in the NFL is a fallacy. There really is absolutely no reason to go forward with Ryan Fitzpatrick as our starting QB. We all know we are not winning a Super Bowl with this guy, so what's the point? I'm 100% positive that even if Fitz was our QB this year he WILL NOT be our starter in 2017. Bill Obrien picked Hoyer over Fitz. 2016 was an anomaly regarding Ryan Fitzpatrick, lighting will not strike twice.

Also, has Fitzpatrick ever put together two good years in a row in his long career?  I don't think so.

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2 hours ago, Jetster said:

Ever since we drafted Hackenberg, talking heads are telling us it means Petty isn't ready, Geno isn't maturing, Fitz is not coming back. Here's what I think it means, it means Macc is going to do what we've been asking for since Sanchez failed...pick a QB at some point in the draft until we find one. 

This was a topic discussed numerous times before the previous drafts. In fact, myself & others were proponents of drafting Teddy Bridgewater. While Tom Brady ages & Rex continues to coach the Bills (clock is ticking), and Tannenbaum ruins the Fins salary cap, the Jets have got to find their future QB & you do that by having young QBs compete against & push each other. 

Macc & the Jets are focused on the one thing that will change our fortunes, finding our future QB. It's just too difficult with a salary cap when you don't have a QB to be a consistent winner. Sure, you can have a good season, but success is short. It's pretty simple, you go forward with 3 young guys to see which one wants it the most. Or you can resign Fitz at a number that is uncomfortable, or might effect your 2017 cap with a 34 year old stop gap QB with a history of turnovers at the worst time. The Buffalo game was it for me. The 2 turnovers in the 4th quarter, the wobbly passes, the near miss 3/4 other passes that could have been picked were all I needed to see. 

The idea that you can compete, and tread water in the NFL is a fallacy. There really is absolutely no reason to go forward with Ryan Fitzpatrick as our starting QB. We all know we are not winning a Super Bowl with this guy, so what's the point? I'm 100% positive that even if Fitz was our QB this year he WILL NOT be our starter in 2017. Bill Obrien picked Hoyer over Fitz. 2016 was an anomaly regarding Ryan Fitzpatrick, lighting will not strike twice.

Great post.  I couldnt agree more.  Geno vs. Petty vs. Hack - ride or die.  If they suck and show no signs of competence, go get Watson in next years draft, whatever it takes.

That said, the Jets have been deploying this strategy for 11 years, taking a QB in 9 of those drafts.  However, the fact they apparently tried to trade to 1 or 2 but failed and then selected Hack in the 2nd, with 2 other youngsters on the team and Fitz still a FA...it actually does mean something.  It means that Mac is determined to find a QB any means possible. 

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The Hackenburg pick means that next year if we have some injuries and a few things go wrong and we are sitting there with 5 wins and in position to actually go after a franchise looking Qb will not trade up to get one, traded own if one is sitting in our laps or just ignore a super high quality prospect, becasue....well we just drafted a guy in the 2nd round last year and have to give him his 'shot'.

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9 minutes ago, JiF said:

Great post.  I couldnt agree more.  Geno vs. Petty vs. Hack - ride or die.  If they suck and show no signs of competence, go get Watson in next years draft, whatever it takes.

That said, the Jets have been deploying this strategy for 11 years, taking a QB in 9 of those drafts.  However, the fact they apparently tried to trade to 1 or 2 but failed and then selected Hack in the 2nd, with 2 other youngsters on the team and Fitz still a FA...it actually does mean something.  It means that Mac is determined to find a QB any means possible. 

I really am moving away from Fitz at this point. I like him but, he has a ceiling and we have seen it up close. Lets give the kids a shot and if Geno is ANYTHING, this is his last chance to prove it.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

How come I haven't heard this anywhere?  Other than we've heard Petty needs a few years to grow, but acts nothing new brought on by Hackenberg.  

You must not listen to much radio regarding the NFL. I drive a lot & have Sirius NFL radio. It's a constant theme on the Jets. Ross Tucker thinks the Jets should just "pay the man" regarding Fitz,lol. Not one person I hear talk about the Jets believes, Geno, Petty or even Hackenberg have a chance of being a good QB. It's utter BS to just make stupid claims like that. These same guys would be saying the same things about Testeverde, Steve Young, ect. If there was as much media attention back then as there is now.

What changed for QBs who would be failures & busts back in the day based on their 1st few years in the NFL according to todays talking heads? The answer is THEIR SITUATION! Rex & his cronies weren't BUILDING A QB, they were throwing guys out into the fire, getting tattoos of them on their bodies,lol, WTF! Rex lost his starting QB trying to win the SNOOPY BOWL!

Bowles is a no nonsense leader with awesome pedigree coming from the Parcells tree & then working under the very well respected Bruce Ariens. Gailey didn't want to use Kerley, Bowles let him coach, didn't interfere, I'm positive he asked Gailey why? Got an intelligent answer "I like what Enunwa brings in size & blocking" and they moved on from Kerley. This is what a real coaching staff does, it's called communication. Unlike Rex who fired everyone but himself & admitted he had no clue what was going on in the offensive meetings. 

Is this staff going to win a Super Bowl? Who the hell knows, but there isn't a true Jet fan out there that didn't feel some pride was restored to the organization the way it was run last year, compared to Rex last 3 years. We were a professional organization, it's something you can hang your hat on. The Jets were RESPECTED last year, not just by other teams but by fans of other teams. 

We might not have the right QB on the roster yet, but if we do, I'm damn sure this coaching staff is gonna know how to proceed when they figure out who it is. And whoever that QB is he will be expected to carry the Jet logo with class & professionalism. Do you guys think Bowles would be the type of coach to look away while his QB is eating a hotdog on the sideline? screwing around with the a OCs computer? wiping boogies on his teamates jacket? giving the finger to the fans? missing meetings? moping around on the sideline? The players that are Jets right now are getting real superior NFL coaching with a touch of discipline. Any player not on board including Geno Smith will be asked to step off the bus. There are no more free passes. That's why I still hold out hope for Geno Smith.

 

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22 minutes ago, Jetster said:

You must not listen to much radio regarding the NFL. I drive a lot & have Sirius NFL radio. It's a constant theme on the Jets. Ross Tucker thinks the Jets should just "pay the man" regarding Fitz,lol. Not one person I hear talk about the Jets believes, Geno, Petty or even Hackenberg have a chance of being a good QB. It's utter BS to just make stupid claims like that. These same guys would be saying the same things about Testeverde, Steve Young, ect. If there was as much media attention back then as there is now.

What changed for QBs who would be failures & busts back in the day based on their 1st few years in the NFL according to todays talking heads? The answer is THEIR SITUATION! Rex & his cronies weren't BUILDING A QB, they were throwing guys out into the fire, getting tattoos of them on their bodies,lol, WTF! Rex lost his starting QB trying to win the SNOOPY BOWL!

Bowles is a no nonsense leader with awesome pedigree coming from the Parcells tree & then working under the very well respected Bruce Ariens. Gailey didn't want to use Kerley, Bowles let him coach, didn't interfere, I'm positive he asked Gailey why? Got an intelligent answer "I like what Enunwa brings in size & blocking" and they moved on from Kerley. This is what a real coaching staff does, it's called communication. Unlike Rex who fired everyone but himself & admitted he had no clue what was going on in the offensive meetings. 

Is this staff going to win a Super Bowl? Who the hell knows, but there isn't a true Jet fan out there that didn't feel some pride was restored to the organization the way it was run last year, compared to Rex last 3 years. We were a professional organization, it's something you can hang your hat on. The Jets were RESPECTED last year, not just by other teams but by fans of other teams. 

We might not have the right QB on the roster yet, but if we do, I'm damn sure this coaching staff is gonna know how to proceed when they figure out who it is. And whoever that QB is he will be expected to carry the Jet logo with class & professionalism. Do you guys think Bowles would be the type of coach to look away while his QB is eating a hotdog on the sideline? screwing around with the a OCs computer? wiping boogies on his teamates jacket? giving the finger to the fans? missing meetings? moping around on the sideline? The players that are Jets right now are getting real superior NFL coaching with a touch of discipline. Any player not on board including Geno Smith will be asked to step off the bus. There are no more free passes. That's why I still hold out hope for Geno Smith.

 

All of this and I still don't hear any of this on ESPN, NFLN and any of the local media outlets.  

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I've said it before but yes, I agree the Hack pick shouldn't make or break Macc's career his hedging his bets by taking a QB every year until we find one and has been pretty open in interviews about saying it.  He also didn't mortgage the future of give up much to get Hack.  However, the one thing that could really hurt Macc's career here  is not whether or not Petty or Hack ever turn into franchise QB's but if someone like Paxton Lynch does.  Jets fans won't forget it if Hack and Petty are still sitting on the bench somewhere or out of the league while Paxton Lynch or Connor Cook is lighting up.  Not likely to happen and I believe Macc did his homework but just a point that many aren't talking about.

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59 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The Hackenburg pick means that next year if we have some injuries and a few things go wrong and we are sitting there with 5 wins and in position to actually go after a franchise looking Qb will not trade up to get one, traded own if one is sitting in our laps or just ignore a super high quality prospect, becasue....well we just drafted a guy in the 2nd round last year and have to give him his 'shot'.

So now the Hackenberg pick cost the jets their chance at a real franchise QB. Brilliant work, Copernicus. 

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16 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Imo the Hackenberg pick is further evidence the FO has no faith in Smith.

If Fitz is not resigned, there is no doubt in my mind that in this his 4th year, Geno Smith will show enough to Chan Gailey & Todd Bowles to win the starting job in 2016. I'm standing behind this statement, we'll see what happens.

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20 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

Imo the Hackenberg pick is further evidence the FO has no faith in Smith.

Did you ever hear of "pushing someone's buttons?". Geno Smith has to prove to this regime that he's not the moping insecure turnover machine that they saw before they got here. According to Bowles Geno has been a standup teammate, has bought into this system & has done everything asked of him INCLUDING supporting Fitz last year.

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Ask yourself this question : Who would you rather have as your backup QB.

An old limited vet hoping to be the starter looking for that last big payday .

a young unproven QB with the required skills who's  cheap and still hungry with the hope of becoming a starter again.

 

Jets need to find out if Geno Smith can be a viable option as a backup going forward . 

Would you pay 4 mil per for a Geno Smith as a veteran #2 QB or 6-8 mil per for a Fitzpatrick type  ?  

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It means nothing more than they are not sure what Petty will become. I am certain they cannot define what he'll ever become until he's actually playing. Mac has always been the kind of guy that believes in drafting QB's often and creating a culture of competition and that need to graduate to something more in the locker room. He merely followed through with his plan. Geno is not his guy and he's an a44hole so he'll be out on waivers if they eventually find their starting QB. Mac's picks are not going anywhere...

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Other than the occasional needle in a haystack... you dont find franchise QBs outside the top 12 picks.  

For every Joe Flacco (teens), Rodgers (20s), and Brees (1st pick of round 2)....  there are 100 Christian Ponders, Brady Quinns, Kellen Clemens', Geno Smiths, Matt Barkleys, Rohan Daveys...  

The answer is to trade up at some point again.

 

 

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13 minutes ago, RoadFan said:

Other than the occasional needle in a haystack... you dont find franchise QBs outside the top 12 picks.  

For every Joe Flacco (teens), Rodgers (20s), and Brees (1st pick of round 2)....  there are 100 Christian Ponders, Brady Quinns, Kellen Clemens', Geno Smiths, Matt Barkleys, Rohan Daveys...  

The answer is to trade up at some point again.

 

 

This could't be more wrong....

in addition to the 3 you mentioned...

Romo, Wilson, Bridgewater (looks to be good) Brady, Cousins (looks to be the real deal) And that's just off the top of my head.

Moreover, As you listed 2nd round busts...you can also list countless top 10 QB busts.  Sorry, but saying Hack isn't going to be a productive QB because he wasn't drafted in the top 10 is simply false...

 

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14 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

^

I can't believe the prevalence on this site of Smith Fans.  He has shown nothing to make any reasonable and objective observer think he is likely to improve enough to be a competent NFL Qb. 

In the last 5 yrs, how many Jet QB have played a perfect game or as close to a perfect game as possibly ?

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5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This could't be more wrong....

in addition to the 3 you mentioned...

Romo, Wilson, Bridgewater (looks to be good) Brady, Cousins (looks to be the real deal) And that's just off the top of my head.

Moreover, As you listed 2nd round busts...you can also list countless top 10 QB busts.  Sorry, but saying Hack isn't going to be a productive QB because he wasn't drafted in the top 10 is simply false...

 

 

Take a good, long look at this study before calling my statement false.  Sure there are busts in the top 10.  But the percentage of successes are probably around 40%.  Anything outside of #12, that rate drops to lotto ticket status.  The study below will either change your mind, or you will be reduced to Jim Carey's "So you're saying there's a chance!" 

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/nfl-draft-round-round-quarterback-data

 

 

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5 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

This could't be more wrong....

in addition to the 3 you mentioned...

Romo, Wilson, Bridgewater (looks to be good) Brady, Cousins (looks to be the real deal) And that's just off the top of my head.

Moreover, As you listed 2nd round busts...you can also list countless top 10 QB busts.  Sorry, but saying Hack isn't going to be a productive QB because he wasn't drafted in the top 10 is simply false...

 

Also Carr, Osweiller (sure is getting the franchise QB treatment from Hou), probably Lynch this yr, Dalton, Taylor had a promising 1st season starting so who knows up there...

Oh yeah, and some guy named Aaron Rodgers. 

Plus at what time is it funny enough to bring up that Christian Ponder was a top 12 pick. The 12th overall pick, in fact. lol

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32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

In 2014 he was doing so well he got benched.

Statistically, he played good football. Regardless of the carousel that O'brien had them on.

The answer I gave is the right one. 

You go on and get cute with 1,700 words or more with someone else.

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