History Shows Reasons for Jets to Back Hack

[JetNation]

By Glenn Naughton

 

When the New York Jets chose Penn State Quarterback Christian Hackenberg in the second round of the NFL draft, the reactions were predictably mixed among the Gang Green faithful.  Some chose to focus on his early results, his 20 touchdown 10 interception freshman season under Head Coach Bill O’ Brien in his pro-style offense.

The skeptics dismissed his inaugural college season and put his regression over the next two campaigns under the microscope.

Seeing his completion percentage dwindle from 58.9% in year one, to 55.8% in year two, before posting a paltry 53.5% rate last season paired with taking over 100 sacks during hist time at Penn State had some fans shaking their heads in disbelief over the selection.

The two sides remain split. The optimists and the pessimists, but there was one thing that was almost unanimous among Jets fans, and that was that year-one should be a redshirt season for Hackenberg.  Keeping him on the bench to learn the nuances of an NFL offense behind whatever quarterback lines up under center on Sunday’s seemed to be the general consensus.

In fairness, you can’t blame Jets fans for wanting to take it slow.  Some are still shell-shocked from the nauseating performances turned in by Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith over their first two pro seasons as both were thrust in to starting roles immediately and combined for 89 turnovers while producing just 54 touchdowns.  An average of 13 touchdowns and 22 turnovers per season.  Good luck winning with numbers like that in today’s NFL.

Aaron Rodgers, the poster boy for letting a quarterback sit and learn as he did behind Brett Favre for so many years appears to be a popular reference point in how to go about developing Hackenberg.  However, there are multiple examples of Super Bowl winning quarterbacks as well as a few highly regarded youngsters who played early and often despite being viewed as “unprepared” by many:

Ben Roethlisberger: The two-time Super Bowl winner and future Hall of Fame Pittsburgh Steeler was chosen in the first round of the 2004 NFL draft out of the University of Miami, Ohio.  A small school that rarely lined up against big time defenses.  As a result, the Steelers plan was to sit the rookie behind veteran quarterback Tommy Maddox who was subsequently injured in week 3.  With Maddox out, “Big Ben” was forced in to action and all he did was go 13-0 while earning a trip to the AFC Championship game.  Pittsburgh relied heavily on their defense and running game as Roethlisberger threw 17 touchdowns and 11 interceptions while completing 66.4% of his passes.

Russell Wilson: A fourth round choice of the Seattle Seahawks out of the University of Wisconsin, Wilson was described on his NFL.com draft profile as a player that a team might “take a late flier on” despite an otherwise glowing report.  The Seahawks had just signed free agent Matt Flynn to a three-year $26 million contract but Wilson wowed the Seahawks coaching staff from the minute training camp started, and with an excellent defense and running game led Seattle to an 11-5 record and a first-round playoff win before winning the Super Bowl one year later.

Joe Flacco:  Like Roethlisberger, Flacco was a small school product out of the University of Delaware where the level of competition was nowhere near what he would see in the pro’s (or what Hackenberg would have seen at Penn State).  Even still, he got the nod as a rookie and led the Ravens to an 11-5 finish.  While Flacco undoubtedly benefited from Rex Ryan’s 3rd ranked scoring defense, he held his own, piloting what would be the 11th highest scoring offense in the NFL.

Three young quarterbacks who many, including their own team’s, expected  to sit and learn but who had a great deal of success early on due largely in part to a strong defense and running game with veteran playmakers.  Sound familiar?

The list of successful young quarterbacks isn’t limited to recent Super Bowl winners either.

Oregon product Marcus Mariota impressed as a rookie.

Marcus Mariota: The Tennessee Titans selected Mariota with the second overall pick in last years draft out of the University of Oregon where he ran an up-tempo offense that required little decision-making and called on quick reads and throws.  With that being the case, many pundits viewed Mariota as a multi-year project who was far from NFL-ready.  Despite struggling with the deep ball, Mariota was very impressive in his rookie campaign, tossing 19 touchdowns to just 10 interceptions while completing 62.2% of his passes.

Derek Carr: A second-round choice of the Oakland Raiders out of Fresno State in 2014, Carr has quickly become one of the better young quarterbacks in the NFL.  The strong-armed signal caller has piled up 53 TD’s through his first two pro seasons, out-performing Jacksonville’s Blake Bortles who was the 3rd overall choice in that same draft.

Blake Bortles:  Yes, Carr has outperformed Bortles thus far, but that’s not to say Bortles isn’t another fast riser who many franchises, the Jets included, would love to have.  Much like several of the aforementioned QB’s, Bortles played mostly lower level competition as a student at the University of Central Florida and was supposed to get the same redshirt treatment that Jets fans are hoping for with Hackenberg.

After being selected by Jacksonville, the Jaguars said their plan was to sit Bortles for a full season to let him develop the “right way”.  Well, that full season on the bench lasted all of 3 games.  Bortles was the Jaguars starter by week four of his rookie season after playing just two full seasons at UCF and he hasn’t looked back.  After a promising rookie season, Bortles looked even better in year two, throwing 35 touchdowns.

So while keeping a QB off the field may feel like the “safe” way to go, recent history has shown us plenty of examples of quarterbacks who have thrived in the NFL when put on the field sooner than expected wnen the supporting cast was strong enough to overcome the deficiencies that go along with a rookie quarterback.

Should the Jets entertain the notion of doing the same thing with Christian Hackenberg?

It may be a bit too early to rule out the possibility as offensive coordinater Chan Gailey was asked about the rookie at a recent charity event and had this to say according to newsday.com:

“He retained a great deal from the pro-style type of offense that Bill [O’Brien] had,” Jets offensive coordinator Chan Gailey said Monday of his newest quarterback. “So he’s ahead in that respect, but he’s behind in seeing what’s going to happen to him defensively in the NFL.”

Maybe the Jets should try something different this time around.

Don’t hand the starting quarterback job to any of the QB’s in camp.  Hold a legitimate training camp competition.  Geno Smith, Hackenberg, Bryce Petty, and Ryan Fitzpatrick should he return.  Let the fight it out, and If Hackenberg, the rookie, is the best of the bunch, put him under center and march forward with what is hopefully, once and for all, the solution the Jets decades-old search for a franchise quarterback.

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[LIJetsFan]

This is certainly an interesting counter point to the red shirt Hack for a year theory.  The only problem with Hack is that supposedly Franklin messed up his footwork so badly that his accuracy is questionable.  If this is really what happened, it might take more than TC/preseason to fix it.   

[dbatesman]

21 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

This is certainly an interesting counter point to the red shirt Hack for a year theory.  The only problem with Hack is that supposedly Franklin messed up his footwork so badly that his accuracy is questionable.  If this is really what happened, it might take more than TC/preseason to fix it.   

Franklin also murdered Hack's entire family, gonna take some serious time with the team shrink to clear that up before he's ready to start

[AFJF]

31 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

This is certainly an interesting counter point to the red shirt Hack for a year theory.  The only problem with Hack is that supposedly Franklin messed up his footwork so badly that his accuracy is questionable.  If this is really what happened, it might take more than TC/preseason to fix it.   

The footwork was a concern, but I recall a report on NFL network (Kim Jones, maybe?) in which she said several teams came away from Hacks pro day very impressed with his footwork after working with Palmer since the college season ended.

Gailey's comments about how much he remembered from his freshman year could include the drops/footwork.

 

[LIJetsFan]

I heard his footwork had improved under Palmer as well but the few vids I saw from rookie mini camp seemed to show his accuracy on the short pass was still poor.

[AFJF]

4 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I heard his footwork had improved under Palmer as well but the few vids I saw from rookie mini camp seemed to show his accuracy on the short pass was still poor.

True...I think if inconsistency is the biggest issue, it's no different than what they already have in the other guys on the roster.  

If all other things are equal, you start the guy who has an extra season on his deal.

He'll also have a better supporting cast than most of the other QB's who "weren't ready yet" which helps quite a bit.

[JetBlue]

6 hours ago, AFJF said:

True...I think if inconsistency is the biggest issue, it's no different than what they already have in the other guys on the roster.  

If all other things are equal, you start the guy who has an extra season on his deal.

He'll also have a better supporting cast than most of the other QB's who "weren't ready yet" which helps quite a bit.

Also all the OP is asking for a is a open and fair competition; if his footwork has not sufficiently improve at that point, then he would be out as the starter.  No big deal. 

[AFJF]

13 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Also all the OP is asking for a is a open and fair competition; if his footwork has not sufficiently improve at that point, then he would be out as the starter.  No big deal. 

A legit QB competition would be great.  When was the last time the Jets had one of those?

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, AFJF said:

A legit QB competition would be great.  When was the last time the Jets had one of those?

Probably Ken O'Brien vs. Tony Eason 1990?

[Villain The Foe]

23 minutes ago, AFJF said:

A legit QB competition would be great.  When was the last time the Jets had one of those?

Last year. 

[section314]

28 minutes ago, AFJF said:

A legit QB competition would be great.  When was the last time the Jets had one of those?

Weren't they still called the Titans then? 

[Beerfish]

I could really care less what reasons a prospect has for sucking for the last two years, if he sucked he sucked and thus is not worthy of a 2nd round selection.

 

Now the Jets did just what they should have done, take him in the 2nd round if they thought that highly of him.  i simply disagree and even his 'great' 1st year is nothing too earth shattering.

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Last year. 

I think we would have seen a legit competition but it never materialized thanks to the punch.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, nyjunc said:

I think we would have seen a legit competition but it never materialized thanks to the punch.

True. OTA's was rather competitive though. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

True. OTA's was rather competitive though. 

wasn't Fitz hurt for OTAs?

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, nyjunc said:

wasn't Fitz hurt for OTAs?

My bad, I always get that mixed up. I meant training camp. Fitz was recovering during OTA's. 

[JetBlue]

10 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I could really care less what reasons a prospect has for sucking for the last two years, if he sucked he sucked and thus is not worthy of a 2nd round selection.

 

Now the Jets did just what they should have done, take him in the 2nd round if they thought that highly of him.  i simply disagree and even his 'great' 1st year is nothing too earth shattering.

That is because you are simply looking at his stats and not HOW he played the position.  Actually calling the plays, changing plays at the line, calling audibles, pointing out blitzes or making other pre snap reads, and otherwise adapting to the looks the defense was showing him.  Not simply looking to the sidelines and waiting to get the play but actually running the offense and a pro style offense.  He is probably the only quarterback in this draft who has demonstrated this ability.    It is that ability along with the arm talent, underrated athleticism, work ethic etc, that impressed Mac, Bowles and Gailey.  

[jetrider]

12 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

That is because you are simply looking at his stats and not HOW he played the position.  Actually calling the plays, changing plays at the line, calling audibles, pointing out blitzes or making other pre snap reads, and otherwise adapting to the looks the defense was showing him.  Not simply looking to the sidelines and waiting to get the play but actually running the offense and a pro style offense.  He is probably the only quarterback in this draft who has demonstrated this ability.    It is that ability along with the arm talent, underrated athleticism, work ethic etc, that impressed Mac, Bowles and Gailey.  

And he was sacked 103 times ...

[AFJF]

43 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Last year. 

Difficult (for me, anyway) to say a QB competition took place without said competition consisting of playing in actual football games.

7-on-7 drills are fun to watch and read about when you're starving for a football fix, but picking a starting QB based on drills that don't allow a defense to hit the QB?  No thanks.

[Beerfish]

12 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

That is because you are simply looking at his stats and not HOW he played the position.  Actually calling the plays, changing plays at the line, calling audibles, pointing out blitzes or making other pre snap reads, and otherwise adapting to the looks the defense was showing him.  Not simply looking to the sidelines and waiting to get the play but actually running the offense and a pro style offense.  He is probably the only quarterback in this draft who has demonstrated this ability.    It is that ability along with the arm talent, underrated athleticism, work ethic etc, that impressed Mac, Bowles and Gailey.  

But he looked like garbage doing that the last two years and his big year of doing that under obrien was two full years ago.  The body of work didn't justify the pick value for me.  If he failed under Franklin what is he going to be like under non premium circumstances in the NFL?  Hopefully the Jets are right and I am wrong.  It doesn't take too long imo to find out if a guy will be good long term or not, a lot sooner than most think.  We'll know pretty quick about him.  Goodness knows the jets deserve a break of finding a guy but I'm skeptical of Hackenburg.

[sourceworx]

30 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I could really care less what reasons a prospect has for sucking for the last two years, if he sucked he sucked and thus is not worthy of a 2nd round selection.

 

Now the Jets did just what they should have done, take him in the 2nd round if they thought that highly of him.  i simply disagree and even his 'great' 1st year is nothing too earth shattering.

Fair enough.

I was high on Hackenberg prior to the draft (and still am). I didn't necessarily blame Franklin for his struggles, I just felt the kid was a poor fit for a college system. I felt (and Gruden brought it up on the QB Camp show) that Hack looked very uncomfortable in that system. Combine that with the protection issues they had, and it's no wonder he looked bad.

I'm starting to think Fitz isn't going to come back. The money just isn't there. So they should just have an open competition in camp with the three young guys on the roster, and see who wins the job.

[JetBlue]

14 minutes ago, jetrider said:

And he was sacked 103 times ...

he probably held on to the ball too long on some of those but from what I have seen, he had one of worst offensive lines I have seen on a division I football team.   I mean he had to guys who were playing DL the year before STARTING on the offensive line. 

12 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

But he looked like garbage doing that the last two years and his big year of doing that under obrien was two full years ago.  The body of work didn't justify the pick value for me.  If he failed under Franklin what is he going to be like under non premium circumstances in the NFL?  Hopefully the Jets are right and I am wrong.  It doesn't take too long imo to find out if a guy will be good long term or not, a lot sooner than most think.  We'll know pretty quick about him.  Goodness knows the jets deserve a break of finding a guy but I'm skeptical of Hackenburg.

He actually had some good games the last two years but I guess you didn't see any of those.... 

I think you really need to just step back and ask yourself this question; do you think Mac is not unaware of everything you just posted?  Yet they went and worked him out multiple times, had Gailey work him out as well.  The grilled him on his time at PSU, trying to see if he would pass blame or take responsibility.   They have had their scouts watching this guy for some time....  with all of that, do you think it is possible that perhaps they may know a little about his potential, work ethic, desire and ability, than you do?  

Also you have no idea of the pick value because it is entirely possible he would have been taken before our pick in the third round.  

 

[JetBlue]

23 minutes ago, jetrider said:

And he was sacked 103 times ...

That certainly didn't help.... 

[Joe Jets fan]

If there was a real three way battle for the starting job I think Petty wins hands down.  

That said, Pitt won the SB in Bens 1st year, because of the talent around him and he not having a lot of turn overs. 

[kmnj]

15 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

That certainly didn't help.... 

many of the sacks were on him holding the ball too long-some he was just blown up on but Lynch is miles better at not taking the sack

[peekskill68]

20 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

Also you have no idea of the pick value because it is entirely possible he would have been taken before our pick in the third round.  

 

This is a great point. Macc and Bowles clearly wanted this guy and made a judgment that they would be really pissed if he were taken before they had a shot in the 3rd round.  I suspect O'Brien trading up one pick ahead of the Jets and then selecting a guard messed with their heads a bit, too...

[JetBlue]

10 minutes ago, kmnj said:

many of the sacks were on him holding the ball too long-some he was just blown up on but Lynch is miles better at not taking the sack

You need to watch more film. Start with the Temple game and get back to me. Lynch had a much better line; it wasn't even close and btw I am not going to get into Lynch-Hackenberg back and forth.  Hack is a Jet. Lynch is not. 

[Beerfish]

46 minutes ago, JetBlue said:

he probably held on to the ball too long on some of those but from what I have seen, he had one of worst offensive lines I have seen on a division I football team.   I mean he had to guys who were playing DL the year before STARTING on the offensive line. 

He actually had some good games the last two years but I guess you didn't see any of those.... 

I think you really need to just step back and ask yourself this question; do you think Mac is not unaware of everything you just posted?  Yet they went and worked him out multiple times, had Gailey work him out as well.  The grilled him on his time at PSU, trying to see if he would pass blame or take responsibility.   They have had their scouts watching this guy for some time....  with all of that, do you think it is possible that perhaps they may know a little about his potential, work ethic, desire and ability, than you do?  

Also you have no idea of the pick value because it is entirely possible he would have been taken before our pick in the third round.  

 

Yeah that is exactly whey the jets took him in the 2nd round, they didn't think he would be there in the 3rd.   All I know is that I already see the same excuse that have been made for some of our previous lousy QBing, no weapons, poor oline.  The jets obviously really like the guy but as I've said before, anyone that loves this pick should in the same breath be berating the jets for most of the rest of their draft.  If Hackenburg is a full time starter in say two years what id our aging broken oline going to look like then.  Marshall could be gone at any time where are our weapons?  (And though people love guys like peake he is still a long shot 7th rounder.)

 

[nyjunc]

6 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Yeah that is exactly whey the jets took him in the 2nd round, they didn't think he would be there in the 3rd.   All I know is that I already see the same excuse that have been made for some of our previous lousy QBing, no weapons, poor oline.  The jets obviously really like the guy but as I've said before, anyone that loves this pick should in the same breath be berating the jets for most of the rest of their draft.  If Hackenburg is a full time starter in say two years what id our aging broken oline going to look like then.  Marshall could be gone at any time where are our weapons?  (And though people love guys like peake he is still a long shot 7th rounder.)

 

so you think the OL looks the same in 2 years? what does one have to do w/ the other?  there are a million moves to be made btw now and a 2-3 years from now.  who knows what Hack will be? who knows what the rest of the team will look like too?

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, AFJF said:

Difficult (for me, anyway) to say a QB competition took place without said competition consisting of playing in actual football games.

7-on-7 drills are fun to watch and read about when you're starving for a football fix, but picking a starting QB based on drills that don't allow a defense to hit the QB?  No thanks.

Fair point 

[Snell41]

True...I think if inconsistency is the biggest issue, it's no different than what they already have in the other guys on the roster.  

If all other things are equal, you start the guy who has an extra season on his deal.

He'll also have a better supporting cast than most of the other QB's who "weren't ready yet" which helps quite a bit.

I disagree. If all things are equal you start the guy that didn't take 4 years to get to "equal".

[Rangers9]

Now they want to start a rookie. And this the team that started two of them recently and unsuccessfully. You'd think we'd learn something from our history. Thank god our FO doesn't listen to us. 

[Dcat]

12 hours ago, dbatesman said:

Franklin also murdered Hack's entire family, gonna take some serious time with the team shrink to clear that up before he's ready to start

How stupid.

[AFJF]

1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

I disagree. If all things are equal you start the guy that didn't take 4 years to get to "equal".

That's another way of looking at it.

[Matt39]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

My bad, I always get that mixed up. I meant training camp. Fitz was recovering during OTA's. 

Geno got punched prior to the first preseason game