What do you think the Jets record could be if....

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, Villain The Foe said:

Some of us would rather see Petty on the field now that he's gotten better playing as the Starter in Madden.  

The irony about arguing with 80 about this (or the irony about arguing this with everyone) is that last offseason when posters like myself, would site the fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick had never won more than 6 games in his career, guys like 80 would go on and on and on about how you can hold that against him for this, that and the other reasons.

But when Geno's rookie season is brought up, his 8 wins dont count because statistics. 

 

[Integrity28]

17 minutes ago, JiF said:

Someone said we couldnt win 6 games with Geno.  Fact is, he won 8 as rookie.  I think it proves he can win more than 6 games because well, he's done it before.

Mind blowing, I know. 

This is, in a nut shell, everything that is wrong with the whole argument.

Saying "Geno has won 8 games" = fact.

Saying "Geno will win 8 games" = a wild ******* guess, that nitwits want to treat as a fact.

I wish the people that want Geno to start would just say, "hey, I want to see him start, I think he might be better now than he was". I'd respect that. Instead, they've spent months here concocting all sorts of colorful hypothetical, strawman arguments... this one, in particular, hinging upon one big broken piece of logic.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has won 10 games = fact.

If you now apply the broken logic that Geno supporters are using to propel Geno's past 8 wins into 8+ wins this year. Then, you'd also have to apply it to Fitz, and conclude 10+

Long story short, the argument is stupid. History can only be a predictor of so much in this sport, given all of the variables at play. 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, JiF said:

The irony about arguing with 80 about this (or the irony about arguing this with everyone) is that last offseason when posters like myself, would site the fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick had never won more than 6 games in his career, guys like 80 would go on and on and on about how you can hold that against him for this, that and the other reasons.

But when Geno's rookie season is brought up, his 8 wins dont count because statistics. 

 

It's like you almost understand the information in front of you, but then don't.

[JustInFudge]

16 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

If only the world were so simple.

You're the one making it difficult, honey bunny.

It is a 100% fact that Geno Smith won 8 games as rookie.  It's in the history books despite your super compelling statistical argument proving that it never happened.  The fact remains, it did. 

[JustInFudge]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I said that.  And I'm comfortable with it.  We may squeak out a couple more than I expect, certainly, football is a team sport after all.  We could certainly win 6 or 8 by stealing a few or playing exceptional defense or Forte/Powell tearing up the league or even if Geno simply IS vastly better now than he was in 2014.

But I have a hard time looking at that schedule and finding alot of wins for a Geno-led, or Petty-led for that matter, team.  8 may be the absolutely maximum possible IMO, and I think it's far more likely with a Geno-led season that we finish up a losing team.

It was actually Smash that I was responding to but your take is fair.  I just have a problem with people saying something cant possibly happen when its actually happened before and we all witnessed it.

 

[Colgateman]

8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I said that.  And I'm comfortable with it.  We may squeak out a couple more than I expect, certainly, football is a team sport after all.  We could certainly win 6 or 8 by stealing a few or playing exceptional defense or Forte/Powell tearing up the league or even if Geno simply IS vastly better now than he was in 2014.

But I have a hard time looking at that schedule and finding alot of wins for a Geno-led, or Petty-led for that matter, team.  8 may be the absolutely maximum possible IMO, and I think it's far more likely with a Geno-led season that we finish up a losing team.

Yet Fitzpatrick, who still sh*t the bed in4 games, against the easiest schedule in the NFL, would win more games than them.

in eleven years Fitzpatrick has only beat 7 teams that finished their season with a winning record. Against every decent defense the jets faced last season, he threw multiple picks.

this jets team has every piece in place except for a franchise quarterback. I'd rather let hackenberg, petty, and geno duke it out, while all three have upside and have a chance of being one.Fitzpatrick on the other hand is not, nor is he worth restructuring contracts for players guaranteeing them big salaries later in their career.

[JustInFudge]

6 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

This is, in a nut shell, everything that is wrong with the whole argument.

Saying "Geno has won 8 games" = fact.

Saying "Geno will win 8 games" = a wild ******* guess, that nitwits want to treat as a fact.

I wish the people that want Geno to start would just say, "hey, I want to see him start, I think he might be better now than he was". I'd respect that. Instead, they've spent months here concocting all sorts of colorful hypothetical, strawman arguments... this one, in particular, hinging upon one big broken piece of logic.

Ryan Fitzpatrick has won 10 games = fact.

If you now apply the broken logic that Geno supporters are using to propel Geno's past 8 wins into 8+ wins this year. Then, you'd also have to apply it to Fitz, and conclude 10+

Long story short, the argument is stupid. History can only be a predictor of so much in this sport, given all of the variables at play. 

 

4 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

It's like you almost understand the information in front of you, but then don't.

I never predicted Geno would win 8 games this year.  In fact, I've said numerous times no matter who the QB is they're in that 6-7 win range...maybe 8.  Which is why I would prefer seeing one of the kids.  I just think its silly to tell me someone cant possibly do something they've done before.  I get that just because he has before doesnt mean he will again.  But impossible?  That's just stupid considering its literally happened before.

I could give 2 sh*ts who the QB is.  I personally think Ryan Fitzpatrick does nothing for this team whatsoever, so I'd like to see one of the kids.  I think Geno dominates the conversation under this logic because he's the odds on favorite to win the starting job if Fitz isnt brought back.

 

 

[bealeb319]

Geno will be our starter and im thinking something like this.

week 1  Bengals (W) Bengals come in and underestimate team 28-6

week 2 @ Bills (W) Close game due to defensive play of the Bills but Taylor has no one to throw the ball to 14-9

week 3 @ chiefs  (L) Chiefs steamroll over us with safe offensive play and a strong defensive showing 13-6

week 4 seahawks (W) Wilson has a few good runs but they get little out of their RB and Receivers. 24-10

week 5 @ Steelers (L) Bell, Brown, Ben and a Coates sighting we get slaughtered. 32-17

week 6 @ cardinals (L) Cards will out power us on both sides of the ball at home I think this one will be closer than most probably do though. 21-14

week 7 Ravens (W) Been awhile since we have beaten the Ravens but they looked weak last season and I don't think they improved a whole lot. 27-18

week 8 @ Browns (W) Their Qb situation is just as bad as ours or worse...our defense is better 32-9

week 9 @ Dolphins (W) Phins brought in some decent players this offseason I think this will be a rough low scoring game 7-6

week 10 Rams (W) Geoff is starting to get the hang of things but our strong defensive showing beats out his inexperience. 27-14

week 11 Bye

week 12 Patriots (W) Pryor shuts down Gronk and Brady takes a few sacks bad calls make it a close game. 21-18

week 13 Colts (W) Colts run game is shutdown and their offensive line doesn't give luck enough time. 7-24

week 14 @ 49ers (W) 49ers basically have given up at this point Hackenberg gets his first snaps with the backups 38-24

week 15 Dolphins (L) Phins come back and crush us. 34-14

week 16 @ Patriots (L) Pats have their refs to help them beat us this time 21-14

week 17 Bills (W) Rex tries to be a spiteful A**hole again like last season but it doesn't work this year 28-10

We win the Division at 11-5

That is my prediction of what will happen.

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, JiF said:

It was actually Smash that I was responding to but your take is fair.  I just have a problem with people saying something cant possibly happen when its actually happened before and we all witnessed it.

 

8 wins.  We were all witnesses.  Hail Geno, the QB with a 12-21 career record.

[bealeb319]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

8 wins.  We were all witnesses.  Hail Geno, the QB with a 12-21 career record.

When you are a Jets fan you need to have hope going into every season....

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

When you are a Jets fan you need to have hope going into every season....

 

I have plenty of hope.  Hope that anybody but Geno Smith is under center for each of our 16 games.  Because that would mean either we brought back the competent starter, Fitzpatrick, OR are getting looks at one or both of the young guys. 

Geno is a waste of time for this franchise.

[Lupz27]

Listen paying Fitz 10+ million this year is like putting $2500 into bathroom repairs when you know your gonna spend $5000 to redue the whole bathroom in less than a year.

[CrazyCarl40]

3 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

Geno will be our starter and im thinking something like this.

week 1  Bengals (W) Bengals come in and underestimate team 28-6

week 2 @ Bills (W) Close game due to defensive play of the Bills but Taylor has no one to throw the ball to 14-9

week 3 @ chiefs  (L) Chiefs steamroll over us with safe offensive play and a strong defensive showing 13-6

week 4 seahawks (W) Wilson has a few good runs but they get little out of their RB and Receivers. 24-10

week 5 @ Steelers (L) Bell, Brown, Ben and a Coates sighting we get slaughtered. 32-17

week 6 @ cardinals (L) Cards will out power us on both sides of the ball at home I think this one will be closer than most probably do though. 21-14

week 7 Ravens (W) Been awhile since we have beaten the Ravens but they looked weak last season and I don't think they improved a whole lot. 27-18

week 8 @ Browns (W) Their Qb situation is just as bad as ours or worse...our defense is better 32-9

week 9 @ Dolphins (W) Phins brought in some decent players this offseason I think this will be a rough low scoring game 7-6

week 10 Rams (W) Geoff is starting to get the hang of things but our strong defensive showing beats out his inexperience. 27-14

week 11 Bye

week 12 Patriots (W) Pryor shuts down Gronk and Brady takes a few sacks bad calls make it a close game. 21-18

week 13 Colts (W) Colts run game is shutdown and their offensive line doesn't give luck enough time. 7-24

week 14 @ 49ers (W) 49ers basically have given up at this point Hackenberg gets his first snaps with the backups 38-24

week 15 Dolphins (L) Phins come back and crush us. 34-14

week 16 @ Patriots (L) Pats have their refs to help them beat us this time 21-14

week 17 Bills (W) Rex tries to be a spiteful A**hole again like last season but it doesn't work this year 28-10

We win the Division at 11-5

That is my prediction of what will happen.

Man. The Heroin Epidemic is real.

[Villain The Foe]

19 minutes ago, JiF said:

The irony about arguing with 80 about this (or the irony about arguing this with everyone) is that last offseason when posters like myself, would site the fact that Ryan Fitzpatrick had never won more than 6 games in his career, guys like 80 would go on and on and on about how you can hold that against him for this, that and the other reasons.

But when Geno's rookie season is brought up, his 8 wins dont count because statistics. 

 

Dude, I had a front row seat for that one, trust me! 

 

[Mike135]

23 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

If you now apply the broken logic that Geno supporters are using to propel Geno's past 8 wins into 8+ wins this year. Then, you'd also have to apply it to Fitz, and conclude 10+

Nope.  There are always variables.  Fitz had 10 wins with a great team around him.  Geno had 8 with $hit.

Fitz with perhaps an even slightly better team around him now, but a much tougher schedule likely equates to 9-7 at best.

Geno?  Sky's the limit.  (Or great draft pick is the worst.)  However making defenses respect the entire field when we have weapons to take advantage of all levels of the field... I'd guess at least 11 wins.  Even vs the tough schedule.

[Warfish]

14 minutes ago, bealeb319 said:

We win the Division at 11-5

That is my prediction of what will happen.

I honestly admire your unbridled optimism.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Nope.  There are always variables.  Fitz had 10 wins with a great team around him.  Geno had 8 with $hit.

Fitz with perhaps an even slightly better team around him now, but a much tougher schedule likely equates to 9-7 at best.

Geno?  Sky's the limit.  (Or great draft pick is the worst.)  However making defenses respect the entire field when we have weapons to take advantage of all levels of the field... I'd guess at least 11 wins.  Even vs the tough schedule.

Have you honestly ever watched Geno play? He's a one read QB just like Fitz is. He may have a better arm as far as strength goes, but it's inaccurate even when he makes the right read and decision, which is not often.

[Villain The Foe]

37 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I said that.  And I'm comfortable with it.  We may squeak out a couple more than I expect, certainly, football is a team sport after all.  We could certainly win 6 or 8 by stealing a few or playing exceptional defense or Forte/Powell tearing up the league or even if Geno simply IS vastly better now than he was in 2014.

But I have a hard time looking at that schedule and finding alot of wins for a Geno-led, or Petty-led for that matter, team.  8 may be the absolutely maximum possible IMO, and I think it's far more likely with a Geno-led season that we finish up a losing team.

Didnt something similar happen last year? So in May you're already baking into the cake that if Geno Smith wins more than 6 games it is officially a "team sport"?

 

Meanwhile Fitzpatrick had never in his career won more than 6 games...he gets to the Jets with arguably the best squad this team has fielded the past 20 years, with the easiest schedule we've ever seen. WIth that said, how does bringing back Fitzpatrick work then? He's the QB that took full advantage of what you're saying....except we dont have a  push over schedule this season. Wouldnt you rather go with the QB who won 8 games against a respectable schedule but terrible talent on rookie contract money instead of a QB who won 10 games against a push over schedule and the most talent this team has ever had yet found a way to throw the season away with 3 INT's (though being an 11 year vet) while having to pay him 10-11 million???

Serious question. 

[Warfish]

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Didnt something similar happen last year?

We won more than I expected last year, if that's what you mean?

3 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

So in May you're already baking into the cake that if Geno Smith wins more than 6 games it is officially a "team sport". 

Teams win games, not QB's.  If Geno's play warrants giving him credit, I'll happily give it to him.

However, as stated, I don't believe that is going to be the case.  I do, tho, hope to be proven wrong if Geno is indeed the starter in 2016.

[Mike135]

6 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Have you honestly ever watched Geno play? He's a one read QB just like Fitz is. He may have a better arm as far as strength goes, but it's inaccurate even when he makes the right read and decision, which is not often.

I have seen Geno play with crap.  I've also seen Geno play with a healthy Decker for like 4 games.

I'd like to see him play with Marshall and Forte as well, under Gailey.

[CrazyCarl40]

Just now, Mike135 said:

I have seen Geno play with crap.  I've also seen Geno play with a healthy Decker for like 4 games.

I'd like to see him play with Marshall and Forte as well, under Gailey.

If that's the hill you want to die on, by all means. Hell, there are still people here who defend Mark Sanchez who had far more tangible success and better numbers than Geno could dream of. Do you homie. Just make sure to show up when it blows up in your face.

[Mike135]

4 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

If that's the hill you want to die on, by all means. Hell, there are still people here who defend Mark Sanchez who had far more tangible success and better numbers than Geno could dream of. Do you homie. Just make sure to show up when it blows up in your face.

Most definitely will be.  BTW, I woulda been cool with Mark @4.5mil.

Geno vs Mark in camp.  Now that woulda been a battle for that ages.

[Integrity28]

29 minutes ago, Mike135 said:

Nope.  There are always variables.  Fitz had 10 wins with a great team around him.  Geno had 8 with $hit.

Fitz with perhaps an even slightly better team around him now, but a much tougher schedule likely equates to 9-7 at best.

Geno?  Sky's the limit.  (Or great draft pick is the worst.)  However making defenses respect the entire field when we have weapons to take advantage of all levels of the field... I'd guess at least 11 wins.  Even vs the tough schedule.

See now. ^^^^

This is what I'm talking about.

[Mike135]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

See now. ^^^^

This is what I'm talking about.

Sorry, what I meant to say was, "hey, I want to see him start, I think he might be better now than he was".

[Integrity28]

1 minute ago, Mike135 said:

Sorry, what I meant to say was, "hey, I want to see him start, I think he might be better now than he was".

Really, that's all it boils down to man. The rest of it is over-rationalization of an opinion.

Just own the opinion. 

Everyone thinks they need to have the smarter position. Sometimes, you just have to own inexplicable stubbornness. It's okay, really. Past generations were built on it. These days, everything is discussed in such massive volume that it leads to flaky talking points and circuitous bullsh*t.

 

 

[jack48]

Either the Jets are certain they are going to get Fitz or they actually do think Geno can win some games for them.  I doubt this would be dragging on ad infinitum if they thought that Geno was a 3-13 guy

[Mike135]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

Really, that's all it boils down to man. The rest of it is over-rationalization of an opinion.

Just own the opinion. 

Everyone thinks they need to have the smarter position. Sometimes, you just have to own inexplicable stubbornness. It's okay, really. Past generations were built on it. These days, everything is discussed in such massive volume that it leads to flaky talking points and circuitous bullsh*t.

 

 

Except that it doesn't take a smart person to see the difference between the '13-'14 teams and the '15 team.  That is a huge factor here whether or not you'd like to admit it.

For the fun of it, imagine Fitz on the '13 and '14 teams.  Would you say 10 wins for each season?

[Integrity28]

Just now, Mike135 said:

Except that it doesn't take a smart person to see the difference between the '13-'14 teams and the '15 team.  That is a huge factor here whether or not you'd like to admit it.

For the fun of it, imagine Fitz on the '13 and '14 teams.  Would you say 10 wins for each season?

No. I don't make arguments like this. That's my point, this sort of half-brained logic is the premise of all this arguing. None of it is provable. You guys treat it like you found the hidden fact that is the be-all-end-all to the discussion. It's just not logical. 

I would say this, I am more comfortable with Fitz as my starter, over Geno, because I am. No bullsh*t over-rationalization. I just am.

So, if the Jets can get Fitz in here on a 1 year deal, so that his contract doesn't hurt the team next year when (hopefully) we have a young stud to replace him. Then I'm a fan of this approach.

If they cannot make that happen, then I hope some combination of Geno, Petty or Hack gives us a season of competitive football.

There is no magic out there that's going to make my gut feeling for Fitz as this year's starter right or wrong. We'll see what happens, that's all.

[Mike135]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

No. I don't make arguments like this. That's my point, this sort of half-brained logic is the premise of all this arguing. None of it is provable. You guys treat it like you found the hidden fact that is the be-all-end-all to the discussion. It's just not logical. 

I would say this, I am more comfortable with Fitz as my starter, over Geno, because I am. No bullsh*t over-rationalization. I just am.

So, if the Jets can get Fitz in here on a 1 year deal, so that his contract doesn't hurt the team next year when (hopefully) we have a young stud to replace him. Then I'm a fan of this approach.

If they cannot make that happen, then I hope some combination of Geno, Petty or Hack gives us a season of competitive football.

There is no magic out there that's going to make my gut feeling for Fitz as this year's starter right or wrong. We'll see what happens, that's all.

Fair enough.

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

8 wins.  We were all witnesses.  Hail Geno, the QB with a 12-21 career record.

You called a guy who never won more than 6 games in his 10 year career, a "conquering hero".

Sssshhhhh

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, JiF said:

You called a guy who never won more than 6 games in his 10 year career, a "conquering hero".

Sssshhhhh

Be careful. We have people who will lurk in the shadows looking to take your "never won more than 6 games" comment out of context. lol. 

[Integrity28]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

You called a guy who never won more than 6 games in his 10 year career, a "conquering hero".

Sssshhhhh

that's because he had a viking beard, not all this other yim yam bullsh*t... sheeesh

[Integrity28]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Be careful. We have people who will lurk in the shadows looking to take your "never won more than 6 games" comment out of context. lol. 

men lurking in shadows is what JIF calls a "date"

[jett]

Fitz : 7-9 or 8-8

Geno : 6-10

Petty : 4-12

Hackenberg : 5-11

 

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Integrity28 said:

men lurking in shadows is what JIF calls a "date"

lmao!