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Heimerdinger Talks Fitzpatrick, Hackenberg


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Just now, Snell41 said:

Because there is zero demand for him at that figure. Nobody is paying him anywhere near that coin, why the hell should we?

Because everyone in the NFL except Jets fans knows he's the right fit here, The reason he's not in demand is because at his age you don't pay 15 + mill for a guy who has to come in and learn a new system and get used to new players that's just stupid. He fits the system here he plays well with the players here and it would be dumb for another team to offer what they feel we should be offering no GM with a brain makes that move.

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3 hours ago, slats said:

The other side of that coin is that the Jets recognize two things. One, that the fans really want Fitz back. Two, that he's really not that good. So they make a very public show of wanting him back so that when they don't sign him, the fans at least believe they did everything they reasonably could. 

I understand that positions have been taken on this subject but this theory seems like a little bit more than the average reach,

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They want Fitz back until they pull the offer.  Period.  If they get tired of the drama or if they feel that they see enough improvement in Geno (or either of the others) then that is when the offer to Fitz will get pulled.  Until that time Fitz is still the preference and still the presumptive starter.

At this point I am for Geno since I do not think we will win with either of them in 2016 but Fitz is still the preference of the front office.

Unless they are all liars

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18 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

So let me get this straight 8 mil is ok 10 mil is absurd so lets throw the season away for 2 mil ? Yep Jets fans are genius. Fitz is 31 + TD's and the best offense we have had since Vinny and now he's got 3 more weapons but yeah that's dumb to sign him for 10 mil . You still don't seem to realize this team has about a 2 year window ...EVERYONE knows Fitz is NOT the long term freaking solution but he is the best solution we have right now and to think otherwise with Geno under center is dreadfully stupid with a few million at stake.

If the Jets would have not signed all these 30 year old players and went into full rebuild mode I would agree with you 100% Slats but that's not the case here. 

I think $8M is too high, so don't ask me. I've repeatedly said that I don't believe Fitz brings nearly that much value over Geno. I'd roll with Smith, and expect him to have the best year of his career in his second year in Gailey's offense, with those same weapons at his disposal. I also prefer the stronger armed QB helping to develop Devin Smith and Charone Peake - deep threats that are useless with Fitz under center. 

Gailey's made guys like Kordell Stewart, Tyler Thigpen, and Ryan Fitzpatrick look good. I'd be willing to gamble not spending $8-10M on Fitzpatrick On him making Geno look decent, too. 

In my ever humble opinion, you have way too high an opinion of Fitzpatrick. 

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Because everyone in the NFL except Jets fans knows he's the right fit here, The reason he's not in demand is because at his age you don't pay 15 + mill for a guy who has to come in and learn a new system and get used to new players that's just stupid. He fits the system here he plays well with the players here and it would be dumb for another team to offer what they feel we should be offering no GM with a brain makes that move.

Ok, so if no other team feels he's worth 10m why should we? If you want a player on the team, you pay him more than other teams are willing to pay. You don't pay him millions more than other teams, you just pay him more. If there's a case to be made that he's a "fit" for your team with an implied value above what he's worth to other teams you pay him just above what other teams are willing to pay with incentives built in allowing him to EARN that implied worth. To every other team in the league he's a quality backup, in the 4-5m range. So pay him 5 with incentives to make up to 10/12. You don't just hand him 12m when no team on the planet is paying anywhere close to it. The fact we're the best and only fit for him means he should be conceding to us, not the other way around.

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well guys we have beat this to death so rather than argue the point further I'm just going to sit back and wait rather than get upset with guys here I respect.  We will see how it turns out and hopefully the Jets get back to the playoffs no matter who is under center. That I'm sure we can all agree upon :).

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1 hour ago, jetrider said:

There are people here who want to cut Geno and leave Fitz with backups Petty and Hack. Same thing.

Plus Fitz is more injury-prone than Geno. (on the field)

Yeah,  but having the option to keep Geno if he shows great progress or if petty regresses is something im sure management wouldn't mind having. 

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No way Macc drafts a QB in the 2nd round and keeps waiting for Fitz if he has ANY confidence in Geno freaking Smith.  He signs a cheap vet as a back up.   

 

Mathis admin does not want Geno to ever play again and just like when I was right about the Hack pick I will be right about Geno getting cut when Fitz signs

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6 hours ago, Warfish said:

To take this at "Face Value", as someone here says is the only way to take Organizational comments, it seems rather clear they want Fitz back.  The only question is one of money (not on-field performance).

Money is tied into on field performance, theyre not mutually exclusive.

If Fitz were a better QB, had more on field success he would get his asking price.  

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5 hours ago, Colgateman said:

So the two top wide receivers on a team, coming out saying they want Fitzpatrick back speaks for the whole team?

If you took one look at Genos Instagram, you'd see he has plenty of photos of him up with other players on the team. I don't see where you guys are getting "everyone hates geno" from, it's quite ignorant.

The posters here don't like Geno as a player, so they have to convince themselves that he's a bad guy as well.  The truth is that the players and coaches like him just fine.  The same goes for Petty.

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1 hour ago, Snell41 said:

Ok, so if no other team feels he's worth 10m why should we? If you want a player on the team, you pay him more than other teams are willing to pay. You don't pay him millions more than other teams, you just pay him more. If there's a case to be made that he's a "fit" for your team with an implied value above what he's worth to other teams you pay him just above what other teams are willing to pay with incentives built in allowing him to EARN that implied worth. To every other team in the league he's a quality backup, in the 4-5m range. So pay him 5 with incentives to make up to 10/12. You don't just hand him 12m when no team on the planet is paying anywhere close to it. The fact we're the best and only fit for him means he should be conceding to us, not the other way around.

Exactly.  He will be back.  

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2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

So let me get this straight 8 mil is ok 10 mil is absurd so lets throw the season away for 2 mil ? Yep Jets fans are genius. Fitz is 31 + TD's and the best offense we have had since Vinny and now he's got 3 more weapons but yeah that's dumb to sign him for 10 mil . You still don't seem to realize this team has about a 2 year window ...EVERYONE knows Fitz is NOT the long term freaking solution but he is the best solution we have right now and to think otherwise with Geno under center is dreadfully stupid with a few million at stake.

If the Jets would have not signed all these 30 year old players and went into full rebuild mode I would agree with you 100% Slats but that's not the case here. 

8 mil is a gift, 10 mil is absurd.  Playing QB is a lot more than how many passing TDs you score.  Problem is I think you actually believe that this a good team that can make and do damage in the playoffs.  I guess you get that from Fitz leading the playoff charge a year ago.  

whats dreadfully stupid is to keep telling people over and over that the unprovable is true.  You have no clue what Geno would do with a Chan offense and these players.  Just what you want us to think you know will happen.  Pretty much that Geno would play like Fitz did in big games

None of which changes the fact that Fitz is a mediocre 33 year old QB who is trying to hold the Jets up for more money

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6 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Other than the TD record (which ranked him only 11th in the league), can you please list all those other "numerous" records Fitz set for the Jets franchise?

Which NY Jets QB's do you think have performed better than Fitz last season since Vinnie in '98?

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12 minutes ago, PatsFanTX said:

Pennyboy in 2002.

Last Jets QB to give Jets fans a home playoff game.

Cool ... I can go with that  ... Favre was doing ok on his own, not listening to the coaches, until he tore up his arm his season as well.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Money is tied into on field performance, theyre not mutually exclusive.

If Fitz were a better QB, had more on field success he would get his asking price.  

One wonder if we're going to need to call protective services to make sure you don't harm yourself when Fitz gets resigned for two years, 12 mil per.  :lol:

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13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

One wonder if we're going to need to call protective services to make sure you don't harm yourself when Fitz gets resigned for two years, 12 mil per.  :lol:

If Fitz gets signed for 2 years and 12M/per when there's absolutely no market for him , the Jets better hire a shrink and give Mike M a course in business management. 

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15 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Where's that money coming from? 

I've asked so many people that question. Still no answer. 

Come on bro, you know the answer to that ... It comes from mortgaging future caps ... Not liking that is certainly reasonable for those who don't see Geno to be a significant downgrade from Fitz ... But for those of us who do see it that way and don't want to just root for whoever is playing against the Cheats every week , paying a mid-level starting QB salary to Fitz for 1 year is a necessary evil.

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9 minutes ago, ljr said:

Come on bro, you know the answer to that ... It comes from mortgaging future caps ... Not liking that is certainly reasonable for those who don't see Geno to be a significant downgrade from Fitz ... But for those of us who do see it that way and don't want to just root for whoever is playing against the Cheats every week , paying a mid-level starting QB salary to Fitz for 1 year is a necessary evil.

This^^^^^ isnt what I mean. Below is what I mean. 

 

The Jets have about 2 million available right now and I dont even think the Jets signed all of their drafted rookies. Where exactly are we getting 10 million dollars from? 

 

Remember, just saying "C'mon bro, it comes from mortgaging future caps" is easy said than done. Because this will no longer be about Geno not being a significant downgrade from Fitz, but Macc trying to convince players to take a cut for Fitz...meaning that Macc is the one that must do the convincing that Macc is a significant upgrade from Geno. 

And how many people must be cut and restructured to get this done? 

 

12 million is alot of damn money when you currently only have 2 million and you havent even signed all of your rookies. 

I need someone to show me an example. Guys are not just going to be "willing" to just give away money just because Macc asked them to. If thats the case then Macc can simply ask Fitz to come down in price. That obviously hasnt happened. What would make anyone thing that Macc can then restructure up 12 million dollars? 

 

I need a legit answer to what seems to be a Fitzpatric fantasy. 

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6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

This^^^^^ isnt what I mean. Below is what I mean. 

 

The Jets have about 2 million available right now and I dont even think the Jets signed all of their drafted rookies. Where exactly are we getting 10 million dollars from? 

 

Remember, just saying "C'mon bro, it comes from mortgaging future caps" is easy said than done. Because this will no longer be about Geno not being a significant downgrade from Fitz, but Macc trying to convince players to take a cut for Fitz...meaning that Macc is the one that must do the convincing that Macc is a significant upgrade from Geno. 

And how many people must be cut and restructured to get this done? 

 

12 million is alot of damn money when you currently only have 2 million and you havent even signed all of your rookies. 

I need someone to show me an example. Guys are not just going to be "willing" to just give away money just because Macc asked them to. If thats the case then Macc can simply ask Fitz to come down in price. That obviously hasnt happened. What would make anyone thing that Macc can then restructure up 12 million dollars? 

 

I need a legit answer to what seems to be a Fitzpatric fantasy. 

Lololololoolololol .... Hahahahahahahahah ... Bro, it's you who is reaching on this one!

you've buried your head in the sand & said this can't happen I don't care what you say to me!

either KRL or one of the other posters much smarter than I am has already posted mathematically all of the ins & outs financially that would occur to make this work ... So if you go back over the last month or two looking for salary cap threads ... Or if anyone can link it for you ... Very detailed explanations are already there.

in general though just remember back to Mike Tannenbaum GM'ing style.

one or several of the higher paid players will have some of their yearly salary $$$ moved around likely switched to bonus or incentives ... And guarantees to be paid later than 2016 

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6 minutes ago, ljr said:

Lololololoolololol .... Hahahahahahahahah ... Bro, it's you who is reaching on this one!

you've buried your head in the sand & said this can't happen I don't care what you say to me!

either KRL or one of the other posters much smarter than I am has already posted mathematically all of the ins & outs financially that would occur to make this work ... So if you go back over the last month or two looking for salary cap threads ... Or if anyone can link it for you ... Very detailed explanations are already there.

in general though just remember back to Mike Tannenbaum GM'ing style.

one or several of the higher paid players will have some of their yearly salary $$$ moved around likely switched to bonus or incentives ... And guarantees to be paid later than 2016 

Do this, instead of the long lol's and ha's. Find that post and share it. 

 

I havent seen it. All I keep hearing is how "easy" it is. However, I dont see anyone showing how easy it is. 

 

Now I can show how easy it could be. Cut Wilkerson. You got 15 million right there. Now, here's the problem with that. Fitzpatrick isnt worth giving up Wilkerson. 

 

Please, dont laugh, dont haha....but show me

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5 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Do this, instead of the long lol's and ha's. Find that post and share it. 

 

I havent seen it. All I keep hearing is how "easy" it is. However, I dont see anyone showing how easy it is. 

 

Now I can show how easy it could be. Cut Wilkerson. You got 15 million right there. Now, here's the problem with that. Fitzpatrick isnt worth giving up Wilkerson. 

 

Please, dont laugh, dont haha....but show me

Sorry bud , you seem like a good guy & I don't want this to come across sounding d*ckish, but why should I do the work & not you?  It's you that can't understand.

 

hopefully someone has the link readily accessible & can just post it for you ... That will make it easy for everyone!

about time for me to get bossed around by my wife  & told to put down the iPad & go to sleep ... Peace!

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

One wonder if we're going to need to call protective services to make sure you don't harm yourself when Fitz gets resigned for two years, 12 mil per.  :lol:

Doubt it.

Thankfully no one is dumb enough to pay Fitz 12 mil per. :D

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So to recap this thread we should pay in the vicinity of 7-8m more than any other team in the league is willing to offer, for not one but 2 years, and restructure existing contracts into bad backloaded contracts that hurt us in future years......for Ryan Fitzpatrick . Mmmkay

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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10 minutes ago, ljr said:

Sorry bud , you seem like a good guy & I don't want this to come across sounding d*ckish, but why should I do the work & not you?  It's you that can't understand.

 

hopefully someone has the link readily accessible & can just post it for you ... That will make it easy for everyone!

about time for me to get bossed around by my wife  & told to put down the iPad & go to sleep ... Peace!

No need to be sorry. I hear people say how easy it is, I tell them "prove it", they say "why should they do all the work". 

 

If it was me, Id me more than happy to back up my words. Then again, im speaking to Jets fans who would cut Geno over Petty. 

 

You dont sound d*ckish, you sound like a Jets fan! lol. Now you atleast know why I made my original statement. Because I Still have no answer

 

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Where's that money coming from? 

I've asked so many people that question. Still no answer. 

 

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8 hours ago, slats said:

The other side of that coin is that the Jets recognize two things. One, that the fans really want Fitz back. Two, that he's really not that good. So they make a very public show of wanting him back so that when they don't sign him, the fans at least believe they did everything they reasonably could. 

The flip side of that coin is that the Jets recognize two things. One, The fans really don't want Geno starting Two, Geno is really that bad. So the Jets continue to leave the door open for Fitz to return and will only close it when Fitz does.

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1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Where's that money coming from? 

I've asked so many people that question. Still no answer. 

I have no idea, was having a laugh. not being serious with that post.

With that said, "where is it coming from" is why Macc gets paid.  If he wants it, he'll figure it out if he can.

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27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I have no idea, was having a laugh. not being serious with that post.

With that said, "where is it coming from" is why Macc gets paid.  If he wants it, he'll figure it out if he can.

I hear you. However, im starting to think that Macc isnt interested in trying to find 12 million dollars 

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16 hours ago, Warfish said:

Would "folding" not inherantly imply they did, in fact, REALLY want him back?

After all, we have Geno Smith on the roster.  Surely they know that Smith, if given a fair chance with talent around him, is a better QB that Fitz...right?

Good post which is very close to the truth IMHO.....except you left out the key idea....which is Fitz is 7m better than Geno, but not 8+m better.  Cap matters in the NFL.  Matters more than many think.     

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6 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I hear you. However, im starting to think that Macc isnt interested in trying to find 12 million dollars 

Cutting Breno saves between 4-5 million. 

Signing Wilk could save 4-5 million the first year easily. 

Restructure (not pay cuts) for Mangold and Marshall could save even more than 4-5 million. 

There. Easy. You could have just looked it up yourself. Math is easy. 

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